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Ti Designs
01-25-2007, 08:56 AM
Ray Browning and a large team of experts from every aspect of cycling got together and held a ceminar on bike fitting. To quote Smiley, " if your involved with bikes and fit and medicine you were there." My question is how do you define "involved"?

I'm involved in cycling - up to my ears, sometimes deeper. I'm working at a bike shop full time, I'm training 20 hours a week, I'm coaching 6 days a week - I'm involved full time. In my free time I read everything I can get my hands on about fitting and training methods, or I'm checking in with many of the local doctors or PTs who often send their clients my way. I've also been to Serotta fit school, both the elements and the advanced class. But what I've found has been the best classroom for leaning about fit has been the never ending supply of new riders I get from coaching a team. Each new rider is a fitting challenge, a clothing challenge (the "warm" part of the day today should be about 20 degrees), a coaching challenge and a test of dedication. So, I ask myself "what would happen if this new rider's cycling career was put in the hands of the experts?"

So, let's have it - the full run down of how a new rider gets into cycling in the best way with the guidence of the top experts. Give me a timeline, a method and a cost breakdown...

By comparison, I'll use a kid learning the game of baseball. Parents get the kid a glove, a ball, a bat and maybe a few tickets to see the local pro team. Dad gets suckered into coaching the team every other Thursday, mom drops the kid off at little league practice when some other kid's dad is coaching. Price of admission to the sport - $0. Kid learns how to throw, catch, hit... There is money to be made in baseball, but nobody is charging kids $50/hour to show 'em the ropes.

2nd case, some kid starts to ride with the Harvard cycling team. They show up in September with a bike, maybe it fits, maybe it doesn't. The team gathers in Belmont and John Allis goes over the basics of fitting. He makes the quick changes he can make, given a group of 40+ riders, suggests to others to come in to the shop for a fitting. The next 10 weeks John teaches skills, from the basics of pedal stroke to the advanced skills like contact and wheel touching. Price of admission to the sport - depends on the rider. Let's say it's a basic bike fitting and maybe a few parts, let's call it $150 on average. The value of John's time - priceless. Again, there is money to be made, winter clothing, advanced fitting work, maybe even a custom bike. It's not the first step for most.

So where does SICI fit into all of this? Is there any emphasis on the entry into the sport, or is it more like a first time car buyer walking into the exotic sports car dealer? Has that collective group taken a rider from total beginner to competent cyclist? Could they do that year in and year out with a group? Could anybody afford it if they offered? The system is designed as a trickle down system, the tops in the field teach the next level who pass some of that to those below them. in this case, the PhDs from SICI teach the advanced fitters of the world who pass on some of that knowledge to the others in the cycling industry. As I said above, the best classroom I've found for learning about fit and performance has been long term work with new riders. Making adjustments and then watching the result over time - it's what you can't possible do in a 2 hour fitting. There's such a huge difference between the top experts and the beginner riders that I have to say that this trickle down system isn't working.


Final comment: there is a lot to learn in the sport of cycling, far more than most people realize. As anybody who has hired a coach can tell you, it gets expensive, but in the long run it's worth it - it's no different than any other sport. Nobody gets their kid a baseball glove and tells them what ticket prices are to Fenway park at the same time. Telling the average new rider that they need an expensive custom bike is doing wonders for running shoe sales.

Climb01742
01-25-2007, 09:04 AM
off topic...hey ed, were you on strawberry hill road at about 8:30 this morning? saw two riders, one in a harvard jacket. couldn't tell if it was you. if it was you, a bit chilly, eh?

Too Tall
01-25-2007, 09:27 AM
Could not even begin to answer.
I've been reading thru the Canadian Cycling Long Term Development Model and you may find some relevance to what you are talking about. Many of your points are validated.

davids
01-25-2007, 09:50 AM
Ed,

I found myself thinking about the question of how to bring in newbies, too, after participating in those threads from "OES" and "roadiegirl". Leaving aside the question of whether OES is who he says, he got a lot of very mixed advice. The best, it seemed to me, was that he start with a cheap bike that fit well, and see where that lead him.

I think that stores need to be able to get beginners onto inexpensive bikes that fit them reasonably well, and get them pointed in the right direction with regards to technique. They should sponsor rides at various levels, or forge ties to local clubs that do.

But they can't, and shouldn't, try to sell some newly-interested rider in a $2-6k bike and hours of weekly coaching.

And as far as SICI - It seems valuable to me to be pushing the state of the art for fitting, etc. The lessons learned at the pinnacle can be used with riders at every level of interest and ability, as long as the practitioner is sensitive to the needs/fanaticism of the cyclist being helped.

Not too much detail on timeline, method and cost, I know. But I've got to get back to work...

Ti Designs
01-25-2007, 10:05 AM
off topic...hey ed, were you on strawberry hill road at about 8:30 this morning? saw two riders, one in a harvard jacket. couldn't tell if it was you. if it was you, a bit chilly, eh?

I'm trying to get this Boston area forum ride moving one rider at a time. Saw Jbay yesterday in Weston center in the balmy 20 degree weather. Who knows who I'll see on Friday!



Climb,

Somthing you said in the post about fitting not too long ago has changed how I coach new riders. You said (quoting some expert) that most new riders don't realize which muscle groups are working or should be. I've been looking for a balance of useage between the quads and the glutes, but I never gave much thought about the rider being able to activly change that. The thing that bothered me was the complaint that the quads were burning on climbs, no matter how far I moved the seat back. So I started to test people with a static position test. I put a rider on the trainer with a wooden block under the pedal at 3:00 and asked them to push down. At 3:00 there's no forward component to the travel of the pedal, and the femur is pretty much level with the ground - there's no advantage to using the quads as extending the knee is pushing in the wrong direction. On the other hand, the glutes are in the best position to generate power. Most riders were still feeling it in the quads.

My solution was muscle group isolation off the bike. I had them do a series of squats, first using the glutes by placing a wedge under the heel, then doing standing hack squats with the hips directly over the feet to isolate the quads. Once they understood the use and activation of both large muscle groups I put them back on the bike. Again in the static position with the pedal stopped at 3:00 the riders could put power into the pedal without their quads firing. It's a small point of understanding that makes a huge difference on the bike.


TT,

My question was directed at Ray Browning and SICI, but if you have a source of long term data from new riders, I'd love to know about it.


David,

I can agree with you on both ends. Bike shops do offer entry level bikes, and even there the performance is nothing to sneeze at. As for the state of the art in fitting and understanding, SICI is so far beyond what was around 20 years ago that is hare to compare. Somewhere between there it breaks down, new riders are getting into the sport the same way they did 20 years ago, many of them getting advice that's been around for that long. So many people still base stem length on where they see the front hub...

Climb01742
01-25-2007, 10:22 AM
ed, something else that might be worth trying. as i've worked with my strength dude, it's been really eye-opening to me how my glutes fire...and don't fire. single leg stuff has really shown me that my right glute fires but my left doesn't, or not nearly as well/strongly. two exercises point this out best, i think: single-leg step ups on a pretty high platform (18-24") and walking lunges, especially holding light (5-10 pound dumbbells). maybe having folks do these might help them see (and feel) what's firing and what isn't. on the bike, my left quad always tired first. i thought it was weaker but in reality, it's compensating (overworking) for my left glute not firing. understanding what our bodies are doing seems like the first step in fixing it, and man, i didn't have a clue what my muscles were doing. driving through the heels during lifting has been a huge help in getting my glutes, not quads, to fire. keeping my chest up and back unhunched has been a huge help too.

ps: for me, deadlifts really focus the heel/glute firing. i enjoy squats more (probably because i do recruit my quads). but deadlifts (when posture is correct) really focus the glutes. but when i go heavier on deadlifts, my grip gives out before my glutes do. :crap: