AXS red chain failure

[Dave]

There's a post with pics of the new AXS 12 chain with two outer plates broken, starting around the pin holes. The chain had about 3000 miles on it, so it was probably about shot, but no one wants to be left stranded with two broken links.

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=158425&hilit=Axs+chain+drop&start=15

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/download/file.php?id=82596&mode=view

I've got two force AXS chains in my 6 chain rotation for two bikes. I really need to add two more chains, so I think I'll go with Campy.

[rnhood]

AXS is expensive and new. It's going to take a while to get all the kinks out. Sram certainly doesn't have a stellar reputation with road groups.

[Blown Reek]

That sure looks like no one ever maintained that chain. I'm sure if you clean and lube it like you should, you're going to minimize the chances of something like this happening.

[Black Dog]

That sure looks like no one ever maintained that chain. I'm sure if you clean and lube it like you should, you're going to minimize the chances of something like this happening.

How does cleaning and lubing prevent a plate failure?

[Blown Reek]

I don't know. But rust on something as engineered as a 12-speed chain can't be good for it. I'd think that if you maintained your chain in such a way as to not have it rust, it might benefit your overall chain life.

[charliedid]

How does cleaning and lubing prevent a plate failure?

Wouldn't a clean and lubed chain run with much less tension? Meaning it runs looser. A very dirty stiff chain can't be a good thing especially 1X 12 speed.

[Dave]

The post mentioned riding in a shower, not long before the failure. Rain can cause rust I a matter of hours. I believe the owner waxes his chains. Waxing should not cause a chain failure.

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=158425&hilit=Axs+chain+drop&start=15

[oldpotatoe]

AXS is expensive and new. It's going to take a while to get all the kinks out. Sram certainly doesn't have a stellar reputation with road groups.

Hmm, dejavu all over again..using consumers as beta testers again? Ala disc brakes and red wifii rear ders?

[charliedid]

Hmm, dejavu all over again..using consumers as beta testers again? Ala disc brakes and red wifii rear ders?

Good answer!

[rustychisel]

hmmm, 2 of 3 links and outside plates... forced change of gear under full load?

Should this even be possible with wireless electronic gearing?

[mistermo]

IMO, these AXS groups have caught on pretty well, especially among those who take their cycling seriously and log many miles. We're really going to leap to conclusions about system reliability after ONE internet posting of a failed chain?!?

[bikinchris]

IMO, these AXS groups have caught on pretty well, especially among those who take their cycling seriously and log many miles. We're really going to leap to conclusions about system reliability after ONE internet posting of a failed chain?!?

Nope. It's SRAM, so as far as they're concerned, guilty. While at the same time, they give excuses for Shimano and Campy selling components and parts that break prematurely.
Disingenuous behavior is par for the course here.

[gospastic]

Whoa, one chain failure. Guess I'll throw my AXS groupset away

[ultraman6970]

Ive never used a sram group but guys tells me are ok, looks like not so much love for their stuff lately. And what happened to the wireless fsa group? died or is still there with the 0000.1% of the market?

IMO ok? why to go with a sram chain when kmc is specialized in that and proven to be reliable? just saying...

[FlashUNC]

Nope. It's SRAM, so as far as they're concerned, guilty. While at the same time, they give excuses for Shimano and Campy selling components and parts that break prematurely.
Disingenuous behavior is par for the course here.

Yup.

I'll be worried about this when there's an entire Instagram account dedicated to SRAM chain failures.

[Dave]

I've never had any brand of chain fail and I have two force AXS chains in rotation with my Campy 12 chains. So far no problems and the AXS does seem to be quieter. I'm not passing judgement, just passing the info along.

FWIW, the AXS chain has the thinnest outer plates of any chain on the market and the narrowest width. That's the reason for the flat top design - to maintain an adequate cross sectional area, with the thinner outer plates.

The AXS chain has rollers that are .006 inch larger in diameter than standard bike chains and no other brand makes a true duplicate. All others are wider, with standard rollers with a .306 inch maximum diameter. The chain standard that the AXS chain follows allows for .3125 maximum diameter.

[Toddykins]

I've never had any brand of chain fail and I have two force AXS chains in rotation with my Campy 12 chains. So far no problems and the AXS does seem to be quieter. I'm not passing judgement, just passing the info along.

FWIW, the AXS chain has the thinnest outer plates of any chain on the market and the narrowest width. That's the reason for the flat top design - to maintain an adequate cross sectional area, with the thinner outer plates.

The AXS chain has rollers that are .006 inch larger in diameter than standard bike chains and no other brand makes a true duplicate. All others are wider, with standard rollers with a .306 inch maximum diameter. The chain standard that the AXS chain follows allows for .3125 maximum diameter.

Sell us on rotating that many chains - I have more free time these days, but constantly changing chains ranks somewhere lower than netflix in my hierarchy...

[Dave]

My rotation is 3 chains for each of my two bikes. Right now I have about 500 miles on each chain, so I could easily add two more. The goal is to get 3-4, 000 miles from each chain and never have to toss a chain prematurely in order to avoid new-chain skip. Once each chain has at least 300 miles on it, new-chain skip will never occur.

[Toddykins]

Hmmm, I get nearly that many miles and no 'new chain skip' using the following protocol:

1. Ride one chain
2. Perform absolute minimum of maintenance when chain/drivetrain gets noisy enough to overcome my laziness
3. Occasionally have mechanic more thoroughly clean when bike is in shop for other reasons.

[ergott]

Yup.

I'll be worried about this when there's an entire Instagram account dedicated to SRAM chain failures.

You referring to this? LOL

https://www.instagram.com/thanksshimano/

[BobbyJones]

Addresses both the AXS chain issue AND the Shimano crank failures...



https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1o0EAX81D3KVjSZFyq6zuFpXas/SUNNY-Push-Bike-Child-Balance-Buggy-Sliding-Toy-Bicycle-Baby-Kid-Walker-Glid-Bikes-2-3.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

Nope. It's SRAM, so as far as they're concerned, guilty. While at the same time, they give excuses for Shimano and Campy selling components and parts that break prematurely.
Disingenuous behavior is par for the course here.

Not really..slam anything Campag and it's a 'they're about to go out of business anyway"..say anything about sram you get the "Disingenuous behavior"..

BUT sram has a history of introduced stuff that led to more than one failure...early gen chainrings, early gen double take shift lever blades, red rear ders and of course the disc brake fiasco...so...:)

[Dave]

Hmmm, I get nearly that many miles and no 'new chain skip' using the following protocol:

1. Ride one chain
2. Perform absolute minimum of maintenance when chain/drivetrain gets noisy enough to overcome my laziness
3. Occasionally have mechanic more thoroughly clean when bike is in shop for other reasons.

Eventually a new chain skip on a well used cassette. There is no such thing as a cassette that lasts forever. A dirty cassette used with poorly maintained chains won't last as long. A lot of us have the skills to maintain there bikes and actually enjoy it. I've never needed a shop to maintain my bike.

[AngryScientist]

Wow, that rider is lucky that he caught that problem in the workstand and did not happen on the road.

are these the same chains spec'd on the high end MTB groups?

no judgement to pass or engineering evaluation as this is a single failure with no investigation, but initial thoughts are that in line with Dave's comments about the thinnest side plates - my guess is that these chains will be found to be underdesigned and need a running revision.

with an electric group, shifting under load, riding in rain, etc - all things that should be easily handled by a top end group. as mentioned, too early to tell if this is a widespread problem, or just a single bad chain, or maybe bad batch of chains.

for sure, if i was riding a AXS chain, i would do very frequent detailed inspection of the chain to make sure there were no cracks.

[Toddykins]

Eventually a new chain skip on a well used cassette. There is no such thing as a cassette that lasts forever. A dirty cassette used with poorly maintained chains won't last as long. A lot of us have the skills to maintain there bikes and actually enjoy it. I've never needed a shop to maintain my bike.

While I read about this quite often on the internet, I can’t remember actually experiencing skip after changing cassettes or chains in about 10-years and even then, I am not sure I could chalk this up to worn chain on new cassette or vice-versa so much as slightly off rear d adjustment. This despite changing cassettes with reasonable frequency to adjust gearing and swapping between wheelsets with vastly different cassette wear.

Thats great you like doing your own maintenance work - I don’t.

[Dave]

While I read about this quite often on the internet, I can’t remember actually experiencing skip after changing cassettes or chains in about 10-years and even then, I am not sure I could chalk this up to worn chain on new cassette or vice-versa so much as slightly off rear d adjustment. This despite changing cassettes with reasonable frequency to adjust gearing and swapping between wheelsets with vastly different cassette wear.

Thats great you like doing your own maintenance work - I don’t.

The only time I wore out some sprockets was when I conducted a deliberate torture test on a Campy 10 chain. I used it for 6000 miles in an attempt to cause new-chain skip and it did. My 19 and 21T sprockets skipped with a new chain, even though the chain showed less than .25% elongation, properly measured over it's full length. At that point the rollers were extremely worn and the side clearances were twice that of a new chain. It should have been tossed much sooner.

What this test disproved was Jobst Brandt's contention that only chain elongation would wear sprockets so they would no longer mesh with a new chain.

Later, I proved that a new chain with only a few hundred miles of break-in use would mesh fine with that worn cassette.

I usually have two bikes and used to ride about 5000 miles per year. With technology changing so often, I found myself with new gear before the old stuff wore out, so worn cassettes were rare.

[AZR3]

My rotation is 3 chains for each of my two bikes. Right now I have about 500 miles on each chain, so I could easily add two more. The goal is to get 3-4, 000 miles from each chain and never have to toss a chain prematurely in order to avoid new-chain skip. Once each chain has at least 300 miles on it, new-chain skip will never occur.

So are you changing the power link every time you change chains? Thought SRAM recommended them as one time use.

[bicycletricycle]

no we will not, however, I have never seen outer plates fail like that.

IMO, these AXS groups have caught on pretty well, especially among those who take their cycling seriously and log many miles. We're really going to leap to conclusions about system reliability after ONE internet posting of a failed chain?!?

[Dave]

So are you changing the power link every time you change chains? Thought SRAM recommended them as one time use.

I'm using each link at least twice. Single use is recommended, but as long as there's some snap left as the link engages, I'll keep using it.

I'm hoping wipperman soon has a 12 speed link. It's more likely to fit a Campy chain.

The AXS chain was really just an experiment, since SRAM likes to claim that there chain only works with AXS components.