Are current gruppos ugly?

[reuben]

Or is it just me?

Background:

Just joined up. Thanks for letting me in on the group ride.

I started riding when Look pedals first appeared - mid 80s I guess. Lemond, Hinault, Kelly, Fignon, Herrera, Longo, Twigg, Rooks, Theunisse, Roche, Argentin, Alcala, Musseuw, Yates, Anderson, Delgado, Rominger...

In the late 80s/early 90s I did triathlons and such on a low end Bianchi. I started to make a "comeback" in the late 90s to get into road racing but then broke both arms in a nasty crash and never followed through. Then I did nothing for a coupla decades and got fat.

Now to my point:

This old Chorus group is pretty - to my eyes.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1041/1160/products/DSC_0059_65203825-8c12-4da2-b4c4-958f24f1955e_1024x1024.JPG

The current offerings from Campy and Shimano are not - IMHO. It's not just the old polished look versus the current black/anodized look - the old lines were cleaner, smoother. Nowadays they look like skeletor components and I don't mean just the rear derailleur, I mean things like the crankset as well. Even the skewers are ugly, like I could use them to grill some kebabs and not have to worry about any of the meat or veggies falling off.

And electronic shifting? Bicycles now need batteries? You're kidding, right? When did Tesla start making bicycles?

Maybe I'm just geezin'. Quite likely, actually.

Anywho, these days I've finally started riding a Specialized A1 Diverge I bought about 2-3 years ago but rarely rode. It's a low end sort of road bike with disc brakes and 30mm tires (I rode 19-22 back in the day). I'm liking it, and if my bathroom scale ever stops displaying frightening numbers I may treat myself to a vintage Cinelli Supercorsa. Steel. No electronics. Most likely rim brakes. I do like the shifters in the hoods, though.

[edward12]

Yes.

[C40_guy]

Welcome aboard.

You won't find any strongly held opinions here, other than it has to be Italian, and everything after C-Record was crap.

:)

[Blue Jays]

I love the aesthetics of Campagnolo components from all eras. Each from a different time with a different look!

Welcome to the Paceline Forums. :hello: :banana: :hello: :banana:

[72gmc]

Welcome!

Current gruppos require the rest of the bike to provide beauty, if there's going to be a high beauty index. A custom stem takes the focus away from xenomorphic shift levers.

[bicycletricycle]

Groups are ugly these days. It isn't that they are black and carbon. I like both of those things. They just have way too much styling for my taste. I prefer more minimally styled components.

I think Suntour Superbe, XTR 950, campy 10 and Dura Ace 7700 mark the end of good looking components although plenty of nice parts have been made since then.

I think SRAM probably makes the best looking groups these days

[CDollarsign]

Yes.

[azrider]

GET OFF MY LAWN ;)

Jus jokin

Welcome.

I prefer function over form so I can't add much to convo...........

[benb]

I think the current groups look somewhat ugly on a metal frame.. maybe not so much on a carbon frame.

The big chunky shapes of stuff like the current Shimano cranks seem to blend in with the giant shaped tubes & bottom bracket areas of modern carbon frames.

Stuff like bulbous brifters housing hydraulic master cylinders are pretty ugly though.. just based on proportions. If they made them with elegant proportions they'd probably be too big for some people to grip.

I don't worry about any of it though. I have relatively current big/chunky 105 cranks on my skinny tube steel frame and I never really think about it.. I don't stare at the cranks or bike that much.

[Germany_chris]

Yes they’re ugly

[FlashUNC]

And what is the deal with airline food...

[AngryScientist]

it's not the components fault.

the real problem is that most bikes are ugly these days. look at this red hot mess below. what a visual steaming pile of garbage.

unfortunately the component manufacturers were forced to abandon beautiful, subtly designed components to match the ugliness of the bikes being made today.

and, welcome to the forum

:banana::banana::banana:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/46485363_2448252565201659_818939195492925440_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=tYcmW2a5wKcAX_JhC1L&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=c8becc9fb5367b2bee77b06bb4d19579&oe=5F071601

[vincenz]

Both silver and black groups can look good. Depending on the frame and the rest of the build, one may look better than the other. I don’t think silver looks best on everything and vice versa. Like the bike above. Ugly frame I agree, but the bike would look even worse with silver components.

If you want to go for a blanket statement, silver tends to look more elegant and black tends to look more sporty. Both can be beautiful.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Well, ya know. . . Most Things Haven't Worked Out.

[old_fat_and_slow]

"Are current gruppos ugly?"

Yer dang straight they are. Campy 12 is pretty fugly IMHO, especially the cranks.

Campy C-Record was the epitome of elegance. That Chorus group you posted is pretty sweet too. I think 10-speed Chorus was the last really pretty group. Some of the 11-speed alloy Athena and Potenza groups are tolerable.

Four-arm crankarms are just fugly, sorry.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Yes but appropriately styled for the mostly unattractive bikes they are going on, to my eye anyway.

I will see your Chorus though and raise you a Record. The hidden 5th spider of the crank and the blended swoop on the aero post are unmatched IMO.

[OtayBW]

And then there is the question of whether (or how much) 4-arm spiders are ugly....

[reuben]

Well, ya know. . . Most Things Haven't Worked Out.

Damn right. Ever been to Holly Springs?

[reuben]

Wow. OK, so it's not just me. I mean, look at these clean lines.

[reuben]

Better image. Can't figure out how to delete the old image or the old post.

[Velocipede]

Groups are ugly these days. It isn't that they are black and carbon. I like both of those things. They just have way too much styling for my taste. I prefer more minimally styled components.

I think Suntour Superbe, XTR 950, campy 10 and Dura Ace 7700 mark the end of good looking components although plenty of nice parts have been made since then.

I think SRAM probably makes the best looking groups these days

See, I disagree. I think 950 XTR was the start of the Ugly Train. You put some gorgeous silver kits like Superbe Pro and 7700 with the dark grey of the XTR. A grey mind you that heel rub made look hideous. 900/910 was the best.

it's not the components fault.

the real problem is that most bikes are ugly these days. look at this red hot mess below. what a visual steaming pile of garbage.

unfortunately the component manufacturers were forced to abandon beautiful, subtly designed components to match the ugliness of the bikes being made today.

and, welcome to the forum

:banana::banana::banana:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/46485363_2448252565201659_818939195492925440_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=tYcmW2a5wKcAX_JhC1L&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=c8becc9fb5367b2bee77b06bb4d19579&oe=5F071601

I agree that the bike of now wouldn't look right with a bright silver Record or Superbe Pro kit. Not sure if it's the bike companies fault as the larger and shaped tubing just doesn't look good with the spindly arms of the cranks and other parts.

Both silver and black groups can look good. Depending on the frame and the rest of the build, one may look better than the other. I don’t think silver looks best on everything and vice versa. Like the bike above. Ugly frame I agree, but the bike would look even worse with silver components.

If you want to go for a blanket statement, silver tends to look more elegant and black tends to look more sporty. Both can be beautiful.

Agreed! I think the Potenza even in the normal silver looked nice. But in the polished CycloRetro version, a work of art.

"Are current gruppos ugly?"

Yer dang straight they are. Campy 12 is pretty fugly IMHO, especially the cranks.

Campy C-Record was the epitome of elegance. That Chorus group you posted is pretty sweet too. I think 10-speed Chorus was the last really pretty group. Some of the 11-speed alloy Athena and Potenza groups are tolerable.

Four-arm crankarms are just fugly, sorry.

Disagree on both. The Record 4 arm in silver was stunning. And I think the new Campy 12 is very nice. Not quite as good a look as the Dura Ace. But I like the function and rebuildability of the Campy.

[Toddtwenty2]

Amen. This is my opinion, exactly.

Most groups now look like Elon's version of a truck. My opinion of beauty is not from a dystopian future in intergalactic space.

Groups are ugly these days. It isn't that they are black and carbon. I like both of those things. They just have way too much styling for my taste. I prefer more minimally styled components.

I think Suntour Superbe, XTR 950, campy 10 and Dura Ace 7700 mark the end of good looking components although plenty of nice parts have been made since then.

I think SRAM probably makes the best looking groups these days

[thirdgenbird]

I can appreciate both of them in their own way.

I am a huge fan of late record 10 speed. I also think Campagnolo 2015+ groups with pre-2015 cranks are the most universally attractive once mounted to a frame. It works on classic steel and modern carbon. I have seen record 12 on some vintage frames and the look is growing on me.

[reuben]

Groups are ugly these days. It isn't that they are black and carbon. I like both of those things. They just have way too much styling for my taste. I prefer more minimally styled components.


This.

I'm a minimalist at heart.

[Cy Trivialities]

Dura Ace 9000 was beautiful.

Also Dura Ace 7900, and Ultegra 6700. I might be in the minority on these two.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Damn right. Ever been to Holly Springs?

Have not. I sold a 60s Gibson Skylark GA-5T to Matthew at Fat Possum some years back. I've got a DVD of You See Me Laughin' somewhere around here.

[reuben]

Amen. This is my opinion, exactly.

Most groups now look like Elon's version of a truck. My opinion of beauty is not from a dystopian future in intergalactic space.

Soul brother.

[flying]

Or is it just me?
This old Chorus group is pretty - to my eyes.


Hi & welcome

You will get no argument from me ;)

I had that exact Chorus groupset on my Masi Gran Corsa that I rode for over a decade during the years you mentioned.

I also agree with others who said all the plastic bikes these days are (**mostly**) not very good looking either :)

https://i.postimg.cc/dLQ0v2k2/2002-0427-153929-AA.jpg (https://postimg.cc/dLQ0v2k2)

[thirdgenbird]

Dura Ace 9000 was beautiful.

Agreed. Where did that come from? It came right off the heals of some of the ugliest components to grace a bike and then left us for groups that are somewhere between awkward and bland.

[Waldo62]

What makes the groups ugly are the most visible parts -- the cranks and the disk brakes. Current SRAM Red and Force cranks actually look pretty good. Campy cranks haven't looked good since the first iteration of 11-speed. Shimano hasn't looked good since 7700 and its Ultegra and 105 equivalents. And all disks are ugly.

[tomato coupe]

This thread is the bicycling equivalent of "They haven't made any good music since the 50/60/70s." It mostly just reveals one's age.

[tv_vt]

Certainly, to me, the cranks have lost some beauty. The Shimano ones are bland. I much prefer the 9000 or 7900 aesthetics to 8000/9001 look.

Shifters are shifters, so no issues there. RD look like Power Ranger knock-offs now, compared to, say, DA7700/7800 models or older Campy stuff.

Disc brakes, by definition - to me, look like s--t. Any caliper looks better, and disc rotors ruin any wheel - hubs aren't even visible with those things stuck on there.

So yeah, gruppos could use some heavy aesthetic/visual help.

That Trek reminds me of NASCAR. Race bikes, real pro race bikes and their knockoffs, are no longer what a lot of cyclists aspire to own. That's OK, but it's not like it was back in the 80's when the OP and me were devouring everything coming out of the Euro-peloton. But I still love some modern bikes, like Hampsten, Pegoretti, Bishop, Zanconato, Parlee, etc.

Quote: "This thread is the bicycling equivalent of "They haven't made any good music since the 50/60/70s." It mostly just reveals one's age."
I'd say that is entirely possible. But what does it mean when I'm listening to Handel or Bach? Or Pat Metheny? Or Lake Street Dive?

[reuben]

Have not. I sold a 60s Gibson Skylark GA-5T to Matthew at Fat Possum some years back. I've got a DVD of You See Me Laughin' somewhere around here.

Fat P!!! Wow.

Spent many hours/days/weeks in the brutal summer heat of North Mississippi. Clarksdale, Tunica, Holly Springs, further south in Bentonia...

Most Things is beyond classic. True story -

About 20 years ago I sent a copy to a friend. I told him to wait until it got dark outside. Not adult dark, but real honest dark. Told him to get half drunk - ONLY half. Told him to turn the lights out and put on Most Things.

A coupla months later I got a call at 1:00 am. Woke me up.

"This is wild!!!"

"Huh?"

'You were right!!"

"Jim?"

"Man, this is crazy!"

"What are you talking about?"

"That Kimbrough CD, Most Things Haven't Worked Out."

"Oh, yeah."

To this day he still rates it top 5 of all time any genre.

Sure wish I had seen him, but I didn't. Missed my one chance. Saw a lot of other greats down there, though, many of whom have never seen the light of day.

I brought Big Jack Johnson up here to play my wedding reception. To make a long story short he crushed it, as requested. It was awesome.

[thirdgenbird]

This thread is the bicycling equivalent of "They haven't made any good music since the 50/60/70s." It mostly just reveals one's age.

My record collection does have similarities with my bicycles posted in the prior page. From The Rolling Stones and Cream to Death Cab and Modest Mouse.

[Old School]

I'm not sure if "Ugly" is the correct word.

More like "Hideous" would be a better descriptor.

[Cy Trivialities]

that yeti post in the previous page. it's making me feel things.

[reuben]

And what is the deal with airline food...

When did they start serving food?

[jtbadge]

This thread is the bicycling equivalent of "They haven't made any good music since the 50/60/70s." It mostly just reveals one's age.

+1. Nostalgia is a toxic impulse, things aren't better just because they're older.

[reuben]

This thread is the bicycling equivalent of "They haven't made any good music since the 50/60/70s." It mostly just reveals one's age.

Just remember - after the "50/60/70s" came disco.

Coincidence? You decide...

[bob heinatz]

I have that beautiful Chorus group on my on my Eisentraut that I have owned for more than 30 years. It still is gorgeous looking on that bike and it functions perfectly. I also have Dura Ace 9100 on my current everyday steel bike. The looks of the Chorus simply smoke the newer stuff. That group stood out on the frame, but my modern day Kirk the frame is the show and the component group is the supporting cast. It's a shame because the quality on the old Campy looks to be so much higher than the new groups.

[NHAero]

I put an 11 speed SRAM Red crankset on the Firefly because I couldn't live with the Campy or Shimano equivalents, they look so clunky. I still have Sugino AT cranks, with TA Zephyr chainrings, on my Bob Jackson and Anderson, because they are really nice looking, low Q, and surprisingly not very heavy.

And quill stems are prettier than threadless.

It's hard to beat the Nuovo Record stuff I have in a drawer that came off my 1972 Bob Jackson for looks. And it's hard to beat how well the new stuff works.

[tomato coupe]

Just remember - after the "50/60/70s" came disco.
Disco was the 70s.

[robt57]

This thread is the bicycling equivalent of "They haven't made any good music since the 50/60/70s." It mostly just reveals one's age.


Now that's funny.. And probably very true as I always say 2015 Campy Chainsets is when/where the ugly set in. :fight:


Now get off my lawn!

[thirdgenbird]

that yeti post in the previous page. it's making me feel things.

I hope good things :)

[reuben]

Disco was the 70s.

See? The end of an era. No more good music, no more classy components. More consequential than the fall of the Roman empire.

Disco was late 70s. Mid 70s was still Stairway to Heaven (and yeah, it was way overplayed). I have vague memories of a few disco-esque songs that I liked. I'd have to go into the Wayback Machine to remember them.

The 80s brought us the heinous gift of electronic drum machines. Still, I have to say that seeing Flock of Seagulls open for the B52s was quite a show.

[JasonF]

I think this is most pronounced in cranks. Personally, current crank design seems incongruous and "off kilter" in order to accommodate varying chainring sizes. IMHO, the Praxis Zayante is a great looking modern crank and even comes close to the beauty of the Campy cranks from the early 2010s...

[David Tollefson]

Groups started going downhill with the introduction of dual-pivot brake calipers. I still prefer them (both aesthetics and performance) on my road bikes, but they are generally used for dry road rides only. So there's that.

All that said, I still like the performance of brake/shift levers, and when I can afford the dosh, will go wireless.

For anything that goes off-pavement as well as in the wet, it's disc brakes all day.

I'm not a curmudgeon, ya know.

Now get off my lawn!

[saab2000]

This thread is the bicycling equivalent of "They haven't made any good music since the 50/60/70s." It mostly just reveals one's age.

My thoughts exactly. Or cars stopped looking good in 1970.

[reuben]

My thoughts exactly. Or cars stopped looking good in 1970.

Gremlin and Pacer were two of the ugliest cars ever. Admittedly, the Gremlin came out in 1970 and the Pacer came out in the mid 70s, but..

But maybe the Gremlin was the 1970 death knell as you suggest.

[DeBike]

I certainly agree with the "most bikes are ugly these days." I do not think that groupsets are necessarily ugly. But that whole line of thought is very subjective. I have the 105 7000 groupset, gray/silver, on a new, black Soma Smoothie steel frame that I recently built. I like the way they look together. I will say that the 7000 groupset, IMO, is outstanding. That is what really matters to me. That and the frame and CF fork make for a very nice ride.

it's not the components fault.

the real problem is that most bikes are ugly these days. look at this red hot mess below. what a visual steaming pile of garbage.

unfortunately the component manufacturers were forced to abandon beautiful, subtly designed components to match the ugliness of the bikes being made today.

and, welcome to the forum

:banana::banana::banana:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/46485363_2448252565201659_818939195492925440_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=tYcmW2a5wKcAX_JhC1L&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=c8becc9fb5367b2bee77b06bb4d19579&oe=5F071601

[EPOJoe]

Yes, current groups and current bikes are ugly. But then again, this is what I'm riding...

[weisan]

>>Or is it just me?

>>I started riding when Look pedals first appeared - mid 80s I guess.

The answer to your question can be answered in one or two ways....let's try this first

Do you prefer a) Madonna or b) Ariana Grande?

If you reply (a) or you have no idea who (b) is - then the problem lies with you.

If you rely (b), then yes, your objective evaluation of current gruppos being ugly is correct.

[Elefantino]

When I'm riding, I generally don't focus on what my groupset looks like, just how it works.

When I'm putting my bike on the wall as art, it has to be all silver, vintage and mint.

Disclaimer: I have no bikes as wall art.

[sailorboy]

Yes, we just tolerate the recent ugliness of campagnolo because we have to to get 11 or 12 speeds...and shimano was never the prettiest, so we never expected much from them, though they had their moments.

PS nice avatar, Junior K.

[reuben]

>>Or is it just me?

>>I started riding when Look pedals first appeared - mid 80s I guess.

The answer to your question can be answered in one or two ways....let's try this first

Do you prefer a) Madonna or b) Ariana Grande?

If you reply (a) or you have no idea who (b) is - then the problem lies with you.

If you rely (b), then yes, your objective evaluation of current gruppos being ugly is correct.

Well, I'm not sure how to take that, but I'll try.

Madonna v Ariana Grande (musically): I've heard a few Madonna songs over the years. Can't remember any. So no preference. I've heard the name Ariana Grande and I'm guessing that she's also a singer. No idea what she sounds like. Again, no preference.

Madonna v Ariana Grande (looks): Madonna - who knows what she looks like under all the hairdos and costumes and makeup? I'm not into all that. Same for Ariana, assuming that she's a similar sort of performer.

I like things that are simple, clean, and elegant. Bikes, women, etc.

Overall that's probably a (c) response - none of the above.

[bironi]

I like the shiny sh_t better, but I don't rule the world.
From the saddle it does not matter.
Look where you want to go!

[reuben]

When I'm riding, I generally don't focus on what my groupset looks like, just how it works.

When I'm putting my bike on the wall as art, it has to be all silver, vintage and mint.

Disclaimer: I have no bikes as wall art.

This forum needs a like button.

[Dino Suegiù]

There were apexes and disasters in the past, and there will be apexes and disasters in the future.

This was the most recent apex, imo, expensive but aesthetically sublime:
Campagnolo Super Record 11 RS ti Limited Edition, 2014.
https://coresites-cdn-adm.imgix.net/rcuk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/campagnolo-super-record-rs-620x547.jpg?fit=crop&w=620&h=547

2014 Campagnolo Super Record RS groupset review (https://cyclingtips.com/2014/09/campagnolo-super-record-rs-groupset-review-2/)

[BRad704]

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/46485363_2448252565201659_818939195492925440_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=tYcmW2a5wKcAX_JhC1L&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=c8becc9fb5367b2bee77b06bb4d19579&oe=5F071601
Call me crazy, but I think that's insanely gorgeous. But gorgeous like the new Vette, not the 'classic hotness' of something like a 1987 Yellowbird.

[OtayBW]

There were apexes and disasters in the past, and there will be apexes and disasters in the future.

This was the most recent apex, imo, expensive but aesthetically sublime:
Campagnolo Super Record 11 RS ti Limited Edition, 2014.
https://coresites-cdn-adm.imgix.net/rcuk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/campagnolo-super-record-rs-620x547.jpg?fit=crop&w=620&h=547

2014 Campagnolo Super Record RS groupset review (https://cyclingtips.com/2014/09/campagnolo-super-record-rs-groupset-review-2/)
Ding, Ding, Ding! :D

[charliedid]

Vintage bike nostalgia is so trite.

What bikes other people prefer is of exactly zero consequence to me.

Ride a bike.

[54ny77]

Product design people these days, from autos to bike parts, grew up on watching a little too much Transformers cartoons.

I like my bike parts shiny and with graceful curves and I cannot lie.

[Toeclips]

I don't know about ugly, but I don't care for shimano securing the rear derailleur cable behind the derailleur and so close to the spokes.
If I wanted to sound like a motorcycle I would have used a playing card

[charliedid]

I don't know about ugly, but I don't care for shimano securing the rear derailleur cable behind the derailleur and so close to the spokes.
If I wanted to sound like a motorcycle I would have used a playing card

But holy moly it works so damn well. I'm never goin back to my old school...

[Velocipede]

Product design people these days, from autos to bike parts, grew up on watching a little too much Transformers cartoons.

I like my bike parts shiny and with graceful curves and I cannot lie.

I'm still watching those cartoons!

I don't know about ugly, but I don't care for shimano securing the rear derailleur cable behind the derailleur and so close to the spokes.
If I wanted to sound like a motorcycle I would have used a playing card


I tuck it inside the rear derailleur. On the back of the parallelogram is some hexagonal holes. I put the crimp in the hole and it stays there. Doesn't put stress on the inner wire either.

[charliedid]

I'm still watching those cartoons!


[/B]

I tuck it inside the rear derailleur. On the back of the parallelogram is some hexagonal holes. I put the crimp in the hole and it stays there. Doesn't put stress on the inner wire either.

Works a treat IMO

[Burnette]

Or is it just me?

Background:

Just joined up. Thanks for letting me in on the group ride.

I started riding when Look pedals first appeared - mid 80s I guess. Lemond, Hinault, Kelly, Fignon, Herrera, Longo, Twigg, Rooks, Theunisse, Roche, Argentin, Alcala, Musseuw, Yates, Anderson, Delgado, Rominger...

In the late 80s/early 90s I did triathlons and such on a low end Bianchi. I started to make a "comeback" in the late 90s to get into road racing but then broke both arms in a nasty crash and never followed through. Then I did nothing for a coupla decades and got fat.

Now to my point:

This old Chorus group is pretty - to my eyes.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1041/1160/products/DSC_0059_65203825-8c12-4da2-b4c4-958f24f1955e_1024x1024.JPG

The current offerings from Campy and Shimano are not - IMHO. It's not just the old polished look versus the current black/anodized look - the old lines were cleaner, smoother. Nowadays they look like skeletor components and I don't mean just the rear derailleur, I mean things like the crankset as well. Even the skewers are ugly, like I could use them to grill some kebabs and not have to worry about any of the meat or veggies falling off.

And electronic shifting? Bicycles now need batteries? You're kidding, right? When did Tesla start making bicycles?

Maybe I'm just geezin'. Quite likely, actually.

Anywho, these days I've finally started riding a Specialized A1 Diverge I bought about 2-3 years ago but rarely rode. It's a low end sort of road bike with disc brakes and 30mm tires (I rode 19-22 back in the day). I'm liking it, and if my bathroom scale ever stops displaying frightening numbers I may treat myself to a vintage Cinelli Supercorsa. Steel. No electronics. Most likely rim brakes. I do like the shifters in the hoods, though.

Welcome and you've exposed cyclist for the style and fashion whores they truly are :banana:

For me it's never been a narrow, one way affair for me. I like some old things, some new things, I find beauty and value in all of it.

And that goes for other things too. I can appreciate a 67 Vette and an Audi RS5, a Harley Davidson Road King and a Ducati Panigale V4.

And as for bicycles, if you dig around enough you can pretty much have whatever flavor you want, used, handmade, heck, some brands even still make steel bikes.

Are new group sets as pretty as the shiny kit of years ago? Not in my opinion but modern group sets have the proper aesthetic for modern bikes. They look right on today's bikes.

In the end I like it all, the classic steel lugged bike will always look right to me. The new aero shaped tubes bikes with no cables and wires showing look good too.

[reuben]

Vintage bike nostalgia is so trite.

What bikes other people prefer is of exactly zero consequence to me.

And yet you replied anyway.

[charliedid]

And yet you replied anyway.

Sorry I should have answered your original question. No. :)

[Toeclips]

Yup I repositioned the cable

I do admit that it's the best shifting I've had, especially the front derailleur

[FlashUNC]

No.

The mid-80s stuff was made to exactly the same standard as the stuff is today -- the best materials on hand suited for the purpose.

The 4 arm stuff is every bit the curvaceous wonders that the 80's fetish objects are. They're just carbon instead of alloy with a more brutalist bent.

Whether it's to someone's personal taste is another matter.

[johnniecakes]

Welcome to Paceline !

In my eyes Shimano has got very a attractive "industrial" sort of look that I like, black or dark gray, functional and business like. Campagnolo tries too hard to add their "Italian" flair which detracts from the appearance.

Please understand this is my opinion, to each their own, Ride what you like but ride.

[flying]

Well, I'm not sure how to take that, but I'll try.

Madonna v Ariana Grande (musically):

I think it was a trick question as they both suck so neither could be a Campy Compare :beer: (before fans of either get twisted yes I'm joking...a little ;) )

[reuben]

I think it was a trick question as they both suck so neither could be a Campy Compare :beer: (before fans of either get twisted yes I'm joking...a little ;) )

Bozo the Clown or that Tiger King guy, eh?

I'm more of a Helen Hunt kinda guy.

[Hellgate]

Yes and no.

Campy 15+ SR with 15- cranks looks great, and works better than the old '80's stuff.

I never cared for the C generation groups as they were heavy. Bikes checked in at 22+ lbs!

At the time I went the other way with Mavic SSC. My 58cm SLX bike was 18 lbs and climbed fast.

I will admit, I do like Dura Ace 7400. It's a clean looking group that worked well.

My favorite is perhaps Campy Record 10 with aluminum cranks. Beautiful!

[saab2000]

My favorite is perhaps Campy Record 10 with aluminum cranks. Beautiful!

This was the best stuff I ever had. And best looking too.

Until I got Shimano 9000. Which is still excellent looking but today looking dated, if still elegant.

I’d have no issues using today’s Campagnolo. I find it quite attractive in general though the brakes don’t look very special, at least in photos.

Anyway, looks don’t matter as much as functionality and durability. Thankfully is possible to have all three. It just costs a bit more.

[reuben]

Anyway, looks don’t matter as much as functionality and durability.
Don't you blaspheme in here!! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPW5JDZolu4)

[choke]

I don't think that they are ugly..... that's not a strong enough word to describe my opinion of them. I think that they are hideous.

Unless things change drastically I'll almost certainly never purchase a new groupset again.

[oldpotatoe]

What's an orange taste like??

Interesting thread but 'beauty is in the eyes of the beholder'..To ME, the looks are minor to their function. Are the older groups cool lookin'? yup, are the new groups cool lookin'? Yup...:)
Unless things change drastically I'll almost certainly never purchase a new groupset again.

Really? It's bike components..considering the 'looks' of modern plastic frames..I guess no new bikes either??...:eek:

Like I say on another non-bike forum..and what Sean Walling with Soulcraft always said,

"Tools not trophies"...

[mcteague]

I absolutely hated the new Campy 12s stuff when it first came out. Slowly I came to accept it but that's about it. Now, I have it on one of my bikes. I actually like the look of the crank at this point and the brakes are okay. The rear mech is still something I try not to stare at but it does work well. My early Chorus 11s group on my backup bike looks much better IMO. While that does matter to me how it works ends up being the deciding factor.

Tim

[weisan]

I'm more of a Helen Hunt kinda guy.

This is my favorite movie...and Jack Nicholson's acting performance, though excellent, is not the reason why. :rolleyes: ;)

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51WnyqMSPHL._SY445_.jpg

https://static.rogerebert.com/uploads/blog_post/primary_image/mzs/30-minutes-on-as-good-as-it-gets/as-good-as-it-gets.jpg

[choke]

Really? It's bike components..considering the 'looks' of modern plastic frames..I guess no new bikes either??...:eek:I've never owned a plastic bike and I have no intention of changing that....but there's always custom steel.

[Leyczo]

I think it is just a matter of matching the components to the frame. Older frames look right with older components. Newer frames, especially carbon ones, look right with newer components. Mixing and matching looks weird. No matter how much you like them, those campy parts in the original post would look pretty strange on a new carbon bike.

[thirdgenbird]

I think it is just a matter of matching the components to the frame. Older frames look right with older components. Newer frames, especially carbon ones, look right with newer components. Mixing and matching looks weird. No matter how much you like them, those campy parts in the original post would look pretty strange on a new carbon bike.

This certainly isn’t new. I think most of us find vintage Campagnolo components and Klein fades attractive, but nuovo record on a quantum?

I think it can be really fun and attractive to mix era (see previously posted yeti) but it is very hard to jump major milestones. As discussed in this thread, components seem to follow frames. When tig welding became the norm in the 90s, it made historical groups look mismatched. We are currently seeing that happen again the focus on aero. In my opinion, Campagnolo seems to do a great job at making groups that look fine on the frames that are the norm at release but fantastic with the frames that come out through the rest of the lifecycle. The fun is finding the mismatches that work. Super record 12 speed on a Klein Quantum? Oh, yeah. 9000 on an old Zunow? Yup.

[azrider]

Call me crazy, but I think that's insanely gorgeous. But gorgeous like the new Vette, not the 'classic hotness' of something like a 1987 Yellowbird.

Yeah I gotta agree with this 100%. As far as race bikes go that TREK is legit...........only thing I would disagree with is the classic hotness part. Instead of 1987 Yellowbird, I'd go with 300SL.............but that's just me ;)

[vincenz]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200610/f77a7ee37d59cb96834a9c38c4b381c6.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200610/35f0f96c2e3e42f5a54c1e9d3df20a86.jpg

These both look good in their own way. It’s more of how it’s done.

[rain dogs]

https://road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/campagnolo-centaur-group.jpg?itok=5m7vIORf

Plenty of aspects of Centaur which are very elegant, minimal and attractive. There are certainly things that aren't what were accustomed to seeing (hidden chainring bolts, the thicker, visually "heavy" rings.

There is a lot of beauty in those bits, while still being contemporary/modern.

I think the marbling on the carbon on Chorus, Record, SR will always be polarizing. Carbon just isn't a beautiful material in the same way polished aluminium is.

If we stayed with the old aesthetic for 40 years, people would be complaining that Campagnolo is tired looking and outdated.

This crank is pretty darn nice afaik.... and I'm not a big fan of the marbled carbon, but when you consider it in context and the type of plastic bike it'll be going on.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fbikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F04%2FCampagnolo-Chorus-12-groupset_Campy-Chorus-Movement-12_12-speed-mechanical-road-bike-gruppo_crankset.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

[flying]

I always thought a lot of the ugly came from the marketing claim benefit of chasing ever stiffer is always better

Especially in cranksets :rolleyes:

It is as if all riders need way stiffer cranks than the likes of Sean Kelly, Erik Zabel had when they were sprinting to wins in Milan San Remo etc

Once they started all the claims of x% stiffer = X% minutia less power loss etc buyers lapped it up.

It is not like the industry can now back track right? :);)

[rain dogs]

There's only one crankset which can stay relatively unchanged for near 20 years, still look baller and still hang with the best of the best in terms of weight and performance and its this:

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. 6riL9e1N90QYABAIR7l7BQHaGZ%26pid%3DApi&f=1

Hollowgram cranks were ahead of their time, and still are legit. How many companies have since 'copied' or emulated Cannondale's design? SRAM, Easton/Race Face, Rotor, Ingrid, DMR etc. etc.

[Fixed]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
Cheers

[merlinmurph]

I really thought my alloy Campy Chorus 9-sp group from '97 was gorgeous to look at and wonderful to touch. The shifters felt great. When I replaced it with the mostly-carbon Chorus 10 sp, I hated to see the alloy parts go. That was a big change. But, when it comes down to it, I got over it real quickly as the function of the modern components is great.

[RonW87]

I'm a big Campy fan, but...

https://media.alltricks.com/hd/5b44c8132e3d7.jpg

https://www.sideshow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/200469_press01.jpg

[thirdgenbird]

This crank is pretty darn nice afaik.... and I'm not a big fan of the marbled carbon, but when you consider it in context and the type of plastic bike it'll be going on.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fbikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F04%2FCampagnolo-Chorus-12-groupset_Campy-Chorus-Movement-12_12-speed-mechanical-road-bike-gruppo_crankset.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

I was a bit uneasy with Campagnolo 12 at launch, started warming up to it after a bit, and then it transitioned to want when chorus dropped. It’s not traditionally pretty like my record 10 was, but it has an honest/industrial aesthetic that I dig on the right frame.

[sc53]

Fat P!!! Wow.

Spent many hours/days/weeks in the brutal summer heat of North Mississippi. Clarksdale, Tunica, Holly Springs, further south in Bentonia...

Most Things is beyond classic. True story -

About 20 years ago I sent a copy to a friend. I told him to wait until it got dark outside. Not adult dark, but real honest dark. Told him to get half drunk - ONLY half. Told him to turn the lights out and put on Most Things.

A coupla months later I got a call at 1:00 am. Woke me up.

"This is wild!!!"

"Huh?"

'You were right!!"

"Jim?"

"Man, this is crazy!"

"What are you talking about?"

"That Kimbrough CD, Most Things Haven't Worked Out."

"Oh, yeah."

To this day he still rates it top 5 of all time any genre.

Sure wish I had seen him, but I didn't. Missed my one chance. Saw a lot of other greats down there, though, many of whom have never seen the light of day.

I brought Big Jack Johnson up here to play my wedding reception. To make a long story short he crushed it, as requested. It was awesome.


So you WERE taking about Junior Kimbrough! I loved that record from the moment I put it on. Now I’m going downstairs to dig it out. Thanks for a great memory!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[reuben]

I'm a big Campy fan, but...

https://media.alltricks.com/hd/5b44c8132e3d7.jpg

https://www.sideshow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/200469_press01.jpg



I am your Rear Derailleur!!!!!!

https://www.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Qwizards_-_Transformers_Summer_Edition_2014-980x620.jpg

[reuben]

So you WERE taking about Junior Kimbrough! I loved that record from the moment I put it on. Now I’m going downstairs to dig it out. Thanks for a great memory!

Wait until it gets dark outside. Not adult dark, but real honest dark. Get half drunk - ONLY half. Turn the lights out. Put on Most Things.

Feel the North Mississippi heat. Hill Country, in the northeast. Where Sid Hemphill, Jessie Mae Hemphill, and Otha Turner lived.

Or head to the northwest, over by Clarksdale and Tunica. Listen to Big Jack Johnson and Gas Man Jones.

http://www.mayophoto.net/sound/Big_Jack_Johnson.jpg

http://www.mayophoto.net/sound/Arthniece_Jones_1.jpg

[FreiburgDe]

I have an old Campy group in silver and especially the crank I find more attractive than the new offerings. I haven't ridden with the 11/12-speed offerings, I'm sure they work great, but...

[19wisconsin64]

Most of the time I ride vintage C Record Campagnolo parts on a fixed or geared steel vintage bicycle. Each time I see the bike it's a joy!

I have a modern "superbike" Specialized Venge that is very cool overall, but the parts are all ugly. Modern carbon frames are super thick and are shaped to hide from the wind and interestingly hide a lot of the parts too. On my bike I just see two big black circles that are the high-profile carbon rims and a mass of purple metallic painted carbon. It's like something from some futurized version of the movie Purple Rain. Honestly, when you ride the modern bikes you tend to be in an aero position and are more focused on going fast and forward than taking the time to look at the parts.

With a few more improvements in 3D printing technology and material science, we will be able to have bicycles that are both stunning to look at and ride...even the components can be made to look good once again. Well, that's the hope. As a sculptor the look and shape of things along with surface treatments (silver, vs. black, vs. painted, vs. anodized, or matt vs. shiny) are important to me, and I think if there is a way to make things both beautiful and functional at a reasonable price then everybody wins.

Ok, I'll get off my artist's soapbox now.

[Hawker]

I grew up with polished components and still much prefer them.

I don't mind some of the Shimano grey stuff and can tolerate shiny black cranks but NOT dull charcoal black cranks at all!

[colker]

Compared to a fixed gear everything else is ugly.

[nortx-Dave]

Wait until it gets dark outside. Not adult dark, but real honest dark. Get half drunk - ONLY half. Turn the lights out. Put on Most Things.

Feel the North Mississippi heat. Hill Country, in the northeast. Where Sid Hemphill, Jessie Mae Hemphill, and Otha Turner lived.

Or head to the northwest, over by Clarksdale and Tunica. Listen to Big Jack Johnson and Gas Man Jones.

OMG. Who would've thunk that I'd find GREAT music reading a thread about bicycle component aesthetics?

Luckily there appears to be a thriving after market for Junior Kinbrough vinyl on eBay. Thanks for the blues pointer!

[reuben]

OMG. Who would've thunk that I'd find GREAT music reading a thread about bicycle component aesthetics?

Luckily there appears to be a thriving after market for Junior Kinbrough vinyl on eBay. Thanks for the blues pointer!

The late great Otha Turner.
https://www.amazon.com/Everybody-Hollerin-Goat-OTHA-TURNER/dp/B000005HOI/

Originally released by Rounder back in the 60s/70s. There are stories that go with this one that are no longer included with the CD/album.
https://store.fatpossum.com/products/mama-says-im-crazy

You can buy Kimbrough and others directly from Fat Possum Records ("We're trying our best"). CD and vinyl.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm a big Campy fan, but...



Geez, you guys are so picky...:eek:

[irideti]

Polished silver crank with scratches looks well used. Black crank with scratches looks beat up. The 9100 crank on my bike looks beat up.

[nortx-Dave]

The late great Otha Turner.
https://www.amazon.com/Everybody-Hollerin-Goat-OTHA-TURNER/dp/B000005HOI/

Originally released by Rounder back in the 60s/70s. There are stories that go with this one that are no longer included with the CD/album.
https://store.fatpossum.com/products/mama-says-im-crazy

You can buy Kimbrough and others directly from Fat Possum Records ("We're trying our best"). CD and vinyl.

Thank you!

[91Bear]

Gremlin and Pacer were two of the ugliest cars ever. Admittedly, the Gremlin came out in 1970 and the Pacer came out in the mid 70s, but..

But maybe the Gremlin was the 1970 death knell as you suggest.

1961 Plymouth

https://img.hmn.com/fit-in/900x506/filters:upscale()/stories/2018/08/622036.jpg

[91Bear]

1962 Dodge Polara

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3f/f4/4f/3ff44f012ef27c0cbdfc9257136e0191.jpg

[ianbjor]

Can we talk about bikes with straight blocks vs the 11-36 + long cage monstrosities?

Back in my day we climbed 10% grades on a 42x18 and we liked it.

[cgolvin]

Back in my day we climbed 10% grades on a 42x18 and we liked it.

I believe this belongs in the "biggest lie you ever told" part of the "who are you and what do you look like" thread.

[ianbjor]

I believe this belongs in the "biggest lie you ever told" part of the "who are you and what do you look like" thread.

LOL. Ok, maybe we didn't _like_ it.

[saab2000]

Can we talk about bikes with straight blocks vs the 11-36 + long cage monstrosities?

Back in my day we climbed 10% grades on a 42x18 and we liked it.

I guess I was soft. My first good bike had a 42x19 granny gear. No hill was too steep. And it was a 7-speed freewheel for an amazing range. No 6-speed here.

[reuben]

I guess I was soft. My first good bike had a 42x19 granny gear. No hill was too steep. And it was a 7-speed freewheel for an amazing range. No 6-speed here.

Back in the day, before calendars were invented and we used sites like Stonehenge to tell time, I started with 42x21 as my lowest gear (six rear cogs), and I struggled on half decent hills, much less real hills. I embraced the suffer decades before the phrase came into being. No spinning or souplesse for me. I was a manly, aka stupid, man. Thank goodness I never tried to ride a real mountain.

After a couple of years it was much easier. Eventually I put on a straight block with 19 at the top with 52/42 chainrings. Them days is over.

[charliedid]

Can we talk about bikes with straight blocks vs the 11-36 + long cage monstrosities?

Back in my day we climbed 10% grades on a 42x18 and we liked it.

https://media.tenor.com/images/e75280af41a824e9b8d29ea11a43a399/tenor.gif

[Ewiser]

The whole carbon fiber look is ugly to by eyes. Black on black bikes are so boring Why people think a totally back black is a thing. To me it’s a marketing thing the carbon fiber frame with a gloss coat and the carbon fiber cranks. Just makes for a dud bike.

[reuben]

The whole carbon fiber look is ugly to by eyes. Black on black bikes are so boring Why people think a totally back black is a thing. To me it’s a marketing thing the carbon fiber frame with a gloss coat and the carbon fiber cranks. Just makes for a dud bike.

This. Soul brother.

[avalonracing]

Can we talk about bikes with straight blocks vs the 11-36 + long cage monstrosities?

Back in my day we climbed 10% grades on a 42x18 and we liked it.


When I was racing a lot everyone had a low gear of 39x23 and my secret weapon for hills was that I secretly had a 38x23.

[johnnylarue]

The whole carbon fiber look is ugly to by eyes. Black on black bikes are so boring Why people think a totally back black is a thing. To me it’s a marketing thing the carbon fiber frame with a gloss coat and the carbon fiber cranks. Just makes for a dud bike.

I agree with you regarding black-on-black being overdone, but let’s not paint all carbon fibre frames with the same brush...
1698020023
1698020026
1698020027
Lugged is the answer.

[Hellgate]

I dunno know...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210228/0720dbd3a824a92b83366a855b68a7cc.jpg

[19wisconsin64]

It would be a welcome change to have some modern gruppos in silver. Not asking for blue, orange, red or anything else, just some silver to bring a little classic flair / homage / styling back into modern bicycles. Silver, please, and thank you.

[tomato coupe]

It would be a welcome change to have some modern gruppos in silver. Not asking for blue, orange, red or anything else, just some silver to bring a little classic flair / homage / styling back into modern bicycles. Silver, please, and thank you.

We had many decades of silver gruppos. Change is good.

[bfd]

When I was racing a lot everyone had a low gear of 39x23 and my secret weapon for hills was that I secretly had a 38x23.

Similarly, although I didn’t race, back in the day, we were all on 700x18 tires pumped up to 120+psi...

of course, I cheated and rode 700x22 tires @115psi...lol

Good Luck!

[samkl]

I think modern cranksets are the big issue. Sram stuff isn’t so ugly since their cranks are more normal looking. And Campy looks pretty slick if you take out the cranksets.

[R3awak3n]

I think modern cranksets are the big issue. Sram stuff isn’t so ugly since their cranks are more normal looking. And Campy looks pretty slick if you take out the cranksets.

I actually thin in the new stuff, the RD is the biggest offender, the followed close by the cranks

[tuscanyswe]

i actually thin in the new stuff, the rd is the biggest offender, the followed close by the cranks

+1

[El Chaba]

Bikes in general are very ugly today...parts in particular. I often wonder if there is just nobody at these companies whose responsibility it is to make things look decent or are the current efforts on purpose? If it is the latter is it because the people designing the beasts now grew up with Lego and Transformer toys and that is their aesthetic? Many years ago there was a veteran racer around here who said when mountain bikes came out and asked if he was going to get one, “ No, I have no interest in riding in the dirt, getting muddy on purpose and destroying things. I didn’t grow up with monsters”....

[Bici-Sonora]

+1


+2 I actually think Campy and Shimano and even SRAM brake levers and shifters are handsome. Especially 2015+ Campy—whose curvy brifters I’d put up against any of my classic components in the looks department. The cranksets however seemed to be designed in a separate building by people who don’t talk to the brifter designers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[R3awak3n]

+2 I actually think Campy and Shimano and even SRAM brake levers and shifters are handsome. Especially 2015+ Campy—whose curvy brifters I’d put up against any of my classic components in the looks department. The cranksets however seemed to be designed in a separate building by people who don’t talk to the brifter designers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

a lot of people like the 10 speed variety of campy shifters and I do admit they look good but they don't work for my hands, the 11 speed + shifters still look great and are just so much better ergonomically. Sram and Shim shifters don't look as good and shimano shifters always been too bulky for me, sram always too small. Campy went from the best looking group to imo probably the worst one for 12 speed. Although I think sram also went down with the axs, etap was pretty nice looking but axs is meh, shimano I think looks the best right now, its its all new age looking stuff but the shimano stuff flows the best from shifters to crank to derailleur.

I would not care about any of this, except 11 speed campy is getting harder to find and having no interest in 12 speed because it being ugly and offering nothing to me but headaches (I have shimano wheels so would have to switch to campy and starting buying expensive cassettes again, no thanks). I shoulda stocked up on 11 speed but might be too late.

[oldpotatoe]

I think modern cranksets are the big issue. Sram stuff isn’t so ugly since their cranks are more normal looking. And Campy looks pretty slick if you take out the cranksets.

YGBSM..:eek:sram looks like a HS science project..Campagnolo are jewelry..:)

[R3awak3n]

Those campy cranks are a mess, the SR are the worst ones with whatever extra design lf carbon over the rings. Yesh those are bad. Also funny how getting rid if the bold hole made them look worst than the prior 4 bolt gen.

Sorry OP you are a big campy fan, and in a way so am I, but I call it like I see it and the new stuff is horrible. And yes all 3 are horrible I will agree with that.

[oldpotatoe]

I actually thin in the new stuff, the RD is the biggest offender, the followed close by the cranks

Sorry, don get that at all.

Pretty->ugly..IMHO and YMMV and all that

Besides, function over form any day.

[R3awak3n]

Sorry, don get that at all.

Pretty->ugly..IMHO and YMMV and all that

Besides, function over form any day.

Right looks better.


But yes I agree function vs form but atm they all work pretty amazing so we have to get back to how they look. And by work I mean they all shift very well, ergonomics to me campy still wins by a mile.

[oldpotatoe]

right looks better to me.


But yes i agree function vs form but atm they all work pretty amazing so we have to get back to how they look. And by work i mean they all shift very well, ergonomics to me campy still wins by a mile.

fify:)

[saab2000]

Rear derailleurs may be “ugly” today but they’re designed to handled much larger cassettes and ranges today. And they do.

I find no fault aesthetically with Super Record, Record or Dura Ace. SRAM Red is OK. All the lower level groups suffer somewhat and this comes from a guy who rides Shimano 5800 alongside 9000. Blindly they’re almost the same experience. But one is clearly easier on the eyes.

I’d ride Super Record all the time. Actually it’s the rim brakes that give me some pause.

But yeah, function over fashion any day and today’s groups are far more functional than in days past.

[R3awak3n]

Rear derailleurs may be “ugly” today but they’re designed to handled much larger cassettes and ranges today. And they do.

I find no fault aesthetically with Super Record, Record or Dura Ace. SRAM Red is OK. All the lower level groups suffer somewhat and this comes from a guy who rides Shimano 5800 alongside 9000. Blindly they’re almost the same experience. But one is clearly easier on the eyes.

I’d ride Super Record all the time. Actually it’s the rim brakes that give me some pause.

But yeah, function over fashion any day and today’s groups are far more functional than in days past.

I still have to try 12 speed but I literally have zero complains with 11 speed, it just shifts perfectly everytime. And I got a big cassette in the back and imo it looks pretty great. Modern but classic at the same time. Maybe 12 speed will blow my mind but I just can’t imagine it. Its like difference btw 10 speed and 11, I like 11 ergonomics better but btw both the shifting to me feels great on 10 and 11, I did not feel like 11 speed was life changing. Hell I still think campy 8 speed shifted the best

[charliedid]

It's a bike ride.....not a parade.

[R3awak3n]

It's a bike ride.....not a parade.

sure but lets discuss as per OP questions. Also why not have both form and function... its possible.

[El Chaba]

Well, there was a time when bike parts, and the aesthetic behind them, originated in France and Italy....primarily. Today, the major sources of manufacturing are in the Far East. While in Japan there is a great tradition of following the European aesthetic, there is very little left originating from Europe to follow. A bike is looked upon as a tool and nothing else....certainly not something that could be a thing of beauty.

[tommyrod74]

Bikes in general are very ugly today...parts in particular. I often wonder if there is just nobody at these companies whose responsibility it is to make things look decent or are the current efforts on purpose? If it is the latter is it because the people designing the beasts now grew up with Lego and Transformer toys and that is their aesthetic? Many years ago there was a veteran racer around here who said when mountain bikes came out and asked if he was going to get one, “ No, I have no interest in riding in the dirt, getting muddy on purpose and destroying things. I didn’t grow up with monsters”....

He would have hated early road racing, what with unpaved roads and such.

[charliedid]

sure but lets discuss as per OP questions. Also why not have both form and function... its possible.

Can't please everyone.

Form exists whether someone likes it or not.

[charliedid]

Well, there was a time when bike parts, and the aesthetic behind them, originated in France and Italy....primarily. Today, the major sources of manufacturing are in the Far East. While in Japan there is a great tradition of following the European aesthetic, there is very little left originating from Europe to follow. A bike is looked upon as a tool and nothing else....certainly not something that could be a thing of beauty.

Are you confusing design with manufacturing?

[El Chaba]

Are you confusing design with manufacturing?

Not at all...the manufacturing moves first followed by the design....

[charliedid]

Not at all...the manufacturing moves first followed by the design....

Maybe conflating is more appropriate on my part.

You're saying that the design is no longer in the hands of Italians at Campagnolo that it is outsourced to Taiwan or whichever country is doing the manufacturing?

Do I follow?

[R3awak3n]

Well, there was a time when bike parts, and the aesthetic behind them, originated in France and Italy....primarily. Today, the major sources of manufacturing are in the Far East. While in Japan there is a great tradition of following the European aesthetic, there is very little left originating from Europe to follow. A bike is looked upon as a tool and nothing else....certainly not something that could be a thing of beauty.

I don't think old parts compromised function for aesthetics, a lot of the old French parts are still amazing today. There is still really nice stuff today, you mentioned Japan for example. Take Nitto which makes some of the best stuff today, incredible look and amanzingly functional and long lasting... you trade that for a few grams though.

[mtechnica]

new bad

old good

[El Chaba]

I don't think old parts compromised function for aesthetics, a lot of the old French parts are still amazing today. There is still really nice stuff today, you mentioned Japan for example. Take Nitto which makes some of the best stuff today, incredible look and amanzingly functional and long lasting... you trade that for a few grams though.

I love Campagnolo. However, it has gone from the company that everyone copied to a nearly irrelevant bit player who is forced to copy far lesser makers just to have components that are even recognized as such in the market.

[Hilltopwalters]

This thread is the bicycling equivalent of "They haven't made any good music since the 50/60/70s." It mostly just reveals one's age.

Well, this is Paceline after all, ha!

[R3awak3n]

I love Campagnolo. However, it has gone from the company that everyone copied to a nearly irrelevant bit player who is forced to copy far lesser makers just to have components that are even recognized as such in the market.

I think Ekkar is campys greatest effort since 11 speed was released. Its a good one and I think will be very successful for them.

[Gibran]

I think Ekkar is campys greatest effort since 11 speed was released. Its a good one and I think will be very successful for them.


Agree. Just to throw everyone into a frenzy, check out those cranks!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210228/737f558de7c173474533d7120afece54.jpg

[rain dogs]

I love Campagnolo. However, it has gone from the company that everyone copied to a nearly irrelevant bit player who is forced to copy far lesser makers just to have components that are even recognized as such in the market.

Huh? Not even close to the mark.... like four fields over. I mean, your sentence doesn't even make sense unless you are suggesting that Campagnolo desires a product that looks like a copy of some other brand? :confused:

Not at all...the manufacturing moves first followed by the design....

And to this, Campagnolo still does all design and 95% of manufacturing in Europe, so unless you disagree that there are only three large scale component manufacturers (Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAM), I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that no one is designing and making groupsets in Europe. 1 in 3 of the large makers does. And if you want to include Rotor as a much, much smaller fourth component maker - all their stuff is designed and made in Madrid - y'know? home of Jose Maria Jiménez.

[rain dogs]

Bikes are ugly "currently".... so groupsets are obliged to follow in order to fit the aesthetic.

[thirdgenbird]

I think Ekkar is campys greatest effort since 11 speed was released. Its a good one and I think will be very successful for them.

I am going to argue that it’s since record 10. In the 10spd era, Campagnolo was lighter and at least I thought shifted noticeably better than 7900-era parts. It should also be noted that era of Shimano was far uglier than what we have today. Record 10 was also a lot more durable than sram 10. I’m not picking on sram because it’s in vogue, They had a lot of shifter failures in that era. The bolts were also very soft in my experience.

I think it’s reasonable to say record 10 had clear advantages were 11spd became more about preference and ergonomics. Ekar is similar to record 10. It offers a pretty compelling package that others don’t quite match.

Bikes are ugly "currently".... so groupsets are obliged to follow in order to fit the aesthetic.

I agree with where you are going here but I can appreciate both appearances. I love my silver Campagnolo bits but they would look odd on a modern gravel or all-road bike.

I think both my bikes posted on page 2 look pretty good. Switching the components, while possible, would look silly.

[rain dogs]

I agree with where you are going here but I can appreciate both appearances. I love my silver Campagnolo bits but they would look odd on a modern gravel or all-road bike.

I think both my bikes posted on page 2 look pretty good. Switching the components, while possible, would look silly.

Right? Both your bikes look "pretty good" I agree. But one of those bike frames is in the conversation of a beautiful bike and the other certainly is not and we both know which ones I am talking about.

That's my point. Are carbon fiber components ever going to be beautiful? No. Or at least no one has made any to date. But they're also not definitely "UGLY", at least a lot of the Campagnolo ones aren't. Campagnolo Record level carbon levers are very nice, but they're not beautiful.

Those carbon components will never be beautiful in a C-Record sense, but at least they're not stupid, which is what putting heavy chunks of polished aluminum would be on a 2021 carbon fiber pro-team bike. If we want things to function over a massive range cassette moving like an ultra-lightweight, multi-articulation, mechanical "arm" or "hand"... it's going to look like that.

Horses for courses.

[charliedid]

Bikes are ugly "currently".... so groupsets are obliged to follow in order to fit the aesthetic.

Only the ugly ones are ugly.

[thirdgenbird]

Right? Both your bikes look "pretty good" I agree. But one of those bike frames is in the conversation of a beautiful bike and the other certainly is not and we both know which ones I am talking about.

Agreed. I would never call the yeti beautiful. I like the way it looks, but it’s not “pretty” or “beautiful.” Something can look good without being those other things.

[indy.cyclist]

...

[joevers]

Bikes (and their components) are like women.


Stop saying **** like this. Seriously, it's gross.

[R3awak3n]

I am going to argue that it’s since record 10. In the 10spd era, Campagnolo was lighter and at least I thought shifted noticeably better than 7900-era parts. It should also be noted that era of Shimano was far uglier than what we have today. Record 10 was also a lot more durable than sram 10. I’m not picking on sram because it’s in vogue, They had a lot of shifter failures in that era. The bolts were also very soft in my experience.

I think it’s reasonable to say record 10 had clear advantages were 11spd became more about preference and ergonomics. Ekar is similar to record 10. It offers a pretty compelling package that others don’t quite match.



I agree with where you are going here but I can appreciate both appearances. I love my silver Campagnolo bits but they would look odd on a modern gravel or all-road bike.

I think both my bikes posted on page 2 look pretty good. Switching the components, while possible, would look silly.


I mean, what does ekar offer that others don't? an extra speed? I think ekar is great but lets not pretend its something above and beyond something else available. Its an extra speed and thats it.

Bikes (and their components) are like women.
1. You can only compare within the age group
2. Your shared experiences affect your perception of beauty
3. After you are a certain age, don't bother looking at the latest models

yes, please stop this crap, not only is offensive, not funny, not true and not the mentality we should have is 2021.

[Gibran]

I mean, what does ekar offer that others don't? an extra speed? I think ekar is great but lets not pretend its something above and beyond something else available. Its an extra speed and thats it.



Yes Ekar offers an extra gear and lighter weight, which is exactly what Campy has done with every other new group release in the past. But also, IMO, the brakes are above and beyond in performance as compared to any other hydro group and the gearing jumps are set up to have only 1 tooth jumps at the bottom of the cassette for road riding. No other 1x group gets this done as well Ekar currently. And, of course, it’s Campy and gravel specific.

But back to the thread topic - it’s also got much less carbon than the road groups so there could be silver versions in the future.[emoji3]

[R3awak3n]

Yes Ekar offers an extra gear and lighter weight, which is exactly what Campy has done with every other new group release in the past. But also, IMO, the brakes are above and beyond in performance as compared to any other hydro group and the gearing jumps are set up to have only 1 tooth jumps at the bottom of the cassette for road riding. No other 1x group gets this done as well Ekar currently. And, of course, it’s Campy and gravel specific.

But back to the thread topic - it’s also got much less carbon than the road groups so there could be silver versions in the future.[emoji3]

Agree on brake performance, I think the magura... I mean campy hydros are a cut above both shimano and sram. They really are fantastic, but thats not ekar specific so I didnt mention it, hydro campy has been out was before ekar and was released way after shim and sram but did they nail it.

[Ewiser]

The problem is that the grey and black of the carbon parts don’t show off any shape. Like the aluminum parts did. The silver just showed off the shape more. So equipment makers had to think how the cranks looked. A black crank just looks blocky and chunky.

[soulspinner]

The problem is that the grey and black of the carbon parts don’t show off any shape. Like the aluminum parts did. The silver just showed off the shape more. So equipment makers had to think how the cranks looked. A black crank just looks blocky and chunky.

what he said

[thirdgenbird]

I mean, what does ekar offer that others don't? an extra speed? I think ekar is great but lets not pretend its something above and beyond something else available. Its an extra speed and thats it.

Compared to shimano 1x, it’s two cogs. That’s huge for a 1x drop bar bike. As noted above, it’s lighter and offers the best brakes in the industry (reportedly)

That’s all pretty significant given it costs less than a chorus disc group. If the rumors elsewhere are true, we also may not see Shimano 12 speed for drop bar bikes until mid-late 2022. Sram seems to have given up on mechanical drop bar groups. All said, I would say that makes it a pretty unique product in an otherwise mature market.

[tomato coupe]

...
No matter what you write, someone will look for and find offense in it.

[R3awak3n]

Compared to shimano 1x, it’s two cogs. That’s huge for a 1x drop bar bike. As noted above, it’s lighter and offers the best brakes in the industry (reportedly)

That’s all pretty significant given it costs less than a chorus disc group. If the rumors elsewhere are true, we also may not see Shimano 12 speed for drop bar bikes until mid-late 2022. Sram seems to have given up on mechanical drop bar groups. All said, I would say that makes it a pretty unique product in an otherwise mature market.


and thats the thing, shimano does not even need to, they still gonna sell more GRX than campy will sell Ekar. And yeah in 1x even 1 cog matters and ekar is great, I am a fan (minus the thumb button of course :))

[R3awak3n]

No matter what you write, someone will look for and find offense in it.

yeah, when its offensive people usually do that. We need to do better, comparing bikes and cars to women or that old mentality crap is long due to disapear.

[54ny77]

Dang them things is ugly.

Agree. Just to throw everyone into a frenzy, check out those cranks!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210228/737f558de7c173474533d7120afece54.jpg

[makoti]

No matter what you write, someone will look for and find offense in it.

You didn't see that as problematic? Kudos to him (I assume) for deleting it.

[jimoots]

No matter what you write, someone will look for and find offense in it.

The "oh you can't say anything anymore without offending someone" is a straw man argument.

Stop being racist/sexist/bigoted and maybe even flex a little of your empathy muscle and you'll be startled to find it's pretty damn easy to not offend anyone.

How did we get to this on a groupset thread. I just came here to note it was funny that this is the "music was better in my day" thread that somehow managed to span 12 pages, ha.

[SpeedyChix]

Thank you to joevers and R3awak3n, and also to makoti and jimmy-moots.

Ekar crank is unexpected and the design has grown on me, i wasn't a fan when I first saw the group but I like what they've done with the gearing on the cassette. It'll be the first Campy group on a bike for me in a long time.

Re carbon or shiny alu, they both have uses and places. Most contemporary frames don't look right with shiny parts. While painted steel frames can look stunning with them. Does that mean current groups are ugly? #options.

[thirdgenbird]

and thats the thing, shimano does not even need to, they still gonna sell more GRX than campy will sell Ekar. And yeah in 1x even 1 cog matters and ekar is great, I am a fan (minus the thumb button of course :))

Specialized also sells more bikes than [insert forum favorite here] :)

I’ve always been a Campagnolo fan, but I really think they are finding a grove that sets them a bit apart from the S brands. Ekar seems to be popping up on a lot of cool places.

For the sake of the topic, I think this looks great.
https://masoncycles.cc/images/000/003/560/large/BOKEH_BIKES_EKAR_SIDE_WEB_2_BACKDROP.jpg?160094515 5

#options.

This.

[jimoots]

Re carbon or shiny alu, they both have uses and places. Most contemporary frames don't look right with shiny parts. While painted steel frames can look stunning with them. Does that mean current groups are ugly? #options.


I don't know if I agree - I think it's chicken and egg. Most contemporary frames don't look right with shiny parts because you can't buy new parts, so you never see them with new parts right?

I mean Dura Ace 9000 is a modern classic in my book, and that's got a fair bit of shiny aluminum going on (contrasted with some black paint admittedly). I don't think 9000 looks objectively out of place on anything, other than the mental gymnastics around it not being the latest and greatest and 9100 being "better"

Likewise the latest SRAM Red AXS crank has a bit of shiny alloy going on, the rest of the group not so much... but it doesn't look out of place.

If DA9200 comes out and is polished alloy I'm sure it'd shock us and then 3 days later the majority would love it.

[tomato coupe]

You didn't see that as problematic? Kudos to him (I assume) for deleting it.
I didn't find it offensive, nor especially funny.

[charliedid]

Specialized also sells more bikes than [insert forum favorite here] :)

I’ve always been a Campagnolo fan, but I really think they are finding a grove that sets them a bit apart from the S brands. Ekar seems to be popping up on a lot of cool places.

For the sake of the topic, I think this looks great.
https://masoncycles.cc/images/000/003/560/large/BOKEH_BIKES_EKAR_SIDE_WEB_2_BACKDROP.jpg?160094515 5

Great looking bike, I wonder who makes it?:)

[R3awak3n]

I didn't find it offensive, nor especially funny.

well, I am pretty sure you are not a woman.

I showed it to my wife and she was shook her head as I believe many women would. But lets drop this, going to get this thread locked.

[R3awak3n]

Specialized also sells more bikes than [insert forum favorite here] :)

I’ve always been a Campagnolo fan, but I really think they are finding a grove that sets them a bit apart from the S brands. Ekar seems to be popping up on a lot of cool places.

For the sake of the topic, I think this looks great.
https://masoncycles.cc/images/000/003/560/large/BOKEH_BIKES_EKAR_SIDE_WEB_2_BACKDROP.jpg?160094515 5



This.


we are in agreement, you know I am a campy fan too and think ekar is a hit for the brand. kudos to them

Great looking bike, I wonder who makes it?:)

Mason does. Its great, be on my list for a gravel bike. Made in Italy, good looks, good price.

[reuben]

How did we get to this on a groupset thread. I just came here to note it was funny that this is the "music was better in my day" thread that somehow managed to span 12 pages, ha.

I hadn't thought of it, but now that you mention it, I agree. Shiny, polished components do sound better than black/carbon components.
:banana:

[thirdgenbird]

we are in agreement, you know I am a campy fan too and think ekar is a hit for the brand. kudos to them

Mason does. Its great, be on my list for a gravel bike. Made in Italy, good looks, good price.

Known and agreed :)

I hope you get around to buying it. I can’t justify the upgrade but i suspect your inevitable build would be right up my alley.

[makoti]

Might as well give my 2 cents.
It's the 4-bolt design that is ugly on cranksets. I love a classic 5-arm spider & the Campagnolo ones were stunners. 4 looks clunky, heavy, and unbalanced in comparison. Material doesn't matter. The bike it's on doesn't matter. It just looks wrong.
Now, the lot of you off the lawn.

[R3awak3n]

Known and agreed :)

I hope you get around to buying it. I can’t justify the upgrade but i suspect your inevitable build would be right up my alley.

Maybe one day, I would totally consider Ekar on that too.


Might as well give my 2 cents.
It's the 4-bolt design that is ugly on cranksets. I love a classic 5-arm spider & the Campagnolo ones were stunners. 4 looks clunky, heavy, and unbalanced in comparison. Material doesn't matter. The bike it's on doesn't matter. It just looks wrong.
Now, the lot of you off the lawn.

You know, 4 arm campy cranks not my thing but for some reason as 1x I actually think it looks great.

[Hellgate]

well, this is paceline after all, ha!+1!

[bicycletricycle]

With that kind of passive aggressive accusational tone isn’t very helpful. Also, I actually find it offensive. So I guess it isn’t as easy as you think :)

PS modern groups are really ugly.

The "oh you can't say anything anymore without offending someone" is a straw man argument.

Stop being racist/sexist/bigoted and maybe even flex a little of your empathy muscle and you'll be startled to find it's pretty damn easy to not offend anyone.

How did we get to this on a groupset thread. I just came here to note it was funny that this is the "music was better in my day" thread that somehow managed to span 12 pages, ha.

[El Chaba]

I don't think old parts compromised function for aesthetics, a lot of the old French parts are still amazing today. There is still really nice stuff today, you mentioned Japan for example. Take Nitto which makes some of the best stuff today, incredible look and amanzingly functional and long lasting... you trade that for a few grams though.

I agree. I think the first goal was to make things that worked, but there was also an effort to make the components attractive as well. With most modern components, I don’t see any evidence that anybody put forth any effort to differentiate them from a kid’s project with an Erector set.

[R3awak3n]

With that kind of passive aggressive accusational tone isn’t very helpful. Also, I actually find it offensive. So I guess it isn’t as easy as you think :)

PS modern groups are really ugly.

hardly passive his tone but seriously, lets drop it.

I agree. I think the first goal was to make things that worked, but there was also an effort to make the components attractive as well. With most modern components, I don’t see any evidence that anybody put forth any effort to differentiate them from a kid’s project with an Erector set.

I agree 100%

[jimoots]

.

[thirdgenbird]

With most modern components, I don’t see any evidence that anybody put forth any effort to differentiate them from a kid’s project with an Erector set.


Maybe the problem is they look less like an erector set. There is beauty in simplicity.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. bs_cL2nj02AlrJEuNIMXegHaIF%26pid%3DApi&f=1

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. sQtEW72JW6WSPFoCsSnEkwHaF7%26pid%3DApi&f=1

[R3awak3n]

Maybe the problem is they look less like an erector set. There is beauty in simplicity.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. bs_cL2nj02AlrJEuNIMXegHaIF%26pid%3DApi&f=1

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. sQtEW72JW6WSPFoCsSnEkwHaF7%26pid%3DApi&f=1

to me its that it goes out, in then up then dowwwnnnn. I get it though, was designed like that for a reason. And I don't think silver is better than black, there is nice black stuff, I liked the older campy versions, both the pre 2015 and post 2015. But like with everything I am sure it will grow on me, maybe ahha. I also think it doesn't look bad on all bikes.

I think the campy designers were hanging out with the bmw designers

https://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/2021-bmw-m3-competition-white-3.jpg

:eek:

[jkbrwn]

I was gonna say 'Well I guess you can only make stuff out of carbon look nice to an extent'.. but then I remembered how much better looking 11 speed Campagnolo stuff is. With that said, I have Chorus 12 on my bike and I don't find it that offensive. It works well and I don't see it when I'm riding. I think it's more visually interesting than Shimano Ultegra - which I guess is the Shim equivalent.

I definitely think the DA 9000, 11 speed Campagnolo Chorus/Record/Super Record and SRAM Force/Red 22 era of groupsets is the best looking generation of modern groupsets.

As Jimmy said, DA 9000 is absolutely a modern classic. Makes me swoon every time I see a set of 9000 cranks on a Ti frame.

[jimoots]

I was gonna say 'Well I guess you can only make stuff out of carbon look nice to an extent'.. but then I remembered how much better looking 11 speed Campagnolo stuff is. With that said, I have Chorus 12 on my bike and I don't find it that offensive. It works well and I don't see it when I'm riding. I think it's more visually interesting than Shimano Ultegra - which I guess is the Shim equivalent.

I definitely think the DA 9000, 11 speed Campagnolo Chorus/Record/Super Record and SRAM Force/Red 22 era of groupsets is the best looking generation of modern groupsets.

As Jimmy said, DA 9000 is absolutely a modern classic. Makes me swoon every time I see a set of 9000 cranks on a Ti frame.

Add a SRM and they get even better :banana::banana::banana:

4 Bolt with Post '15 everything else

https://i.ibb.co/HYRVhTt/E817-C6-E8-DB02-4-EA6-ABB4-E476-E754-D09-F.jpg

And DA9000 :) :) :)

https://i.ibb.co/p2ySzcn/A23-D2317-F65-D-498-C-BD93-76204705-EEEB.jpg

I wish I could find the photos of my Moots with a DA9000 crank :( :(

[charliedid]

The goal isn't to make something beautiful, the goal is to convince people that it is. It's easy to make something red or five feet tall. Tell me exactly how you go about making something beautiful?

Eh?

[jkbrwn]

I love those bikes so much man^^

I sent photos of them both to a friend the other day to illustrate what kind of carbon bike I would be willing to ride :cool: He was equally enamored by them.

[54ny77]

I just scored a NOS 9000 crank and it is like jewelry.

Am trying to figure out how to protect the finish. Probably get a crankskin and a hairdryer/heat gun to shrink and fit properly. I have the clear plastic on an NOS 7900 crank and it looks so so (the plastic, that is). Kinda like plastic slipcovers on furniture in an Italian house in the northeast!

I was gonna say 'Well I guess you can only make stuff out of carbon look nice to an extent'.. but then I remembered how much better looking 11 speed Campagnolo stuff is. With that said, I have Chorus 12 on my bike and I don't find it that offensive. It works well and I don't see it when I'm riding. I think it's more visually interesting than Shimano Ultegra - which I guess is the Shim equivalent.

I definitely think the DA 9000, 11 speed Campagnolo Chorus/Record/Super Record and SRAM Force/Red 22 era of groupsets is the best looking generation of modern groupsets.

As Jimmy said, DA 9000 is absolutely a modern classic. Makes me swoon every time I see a set of 9000 cranks on a Ti frame.

[mcteague]

Maybe the problem is they look less like an erector set. There is beauty in simplicity.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. bs_cL2nj02AlrJEuNIMXegHaIF%26pid%3DApi&f=1

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. sQtEW72JW6WSPFoCsSnEkwHaF7%26pid%3DApi&f=1

For looks...yes. For functionality...NO! I've had both of those derailleurs and the old Record was crap for shifting IMO, the new stuff works flawlessly.

Tim

[Ewiser]

Design goes in circles. What is clean an fresh will last for so long. Then it falls out of being cool. Even then some designs are classic.

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/dieter-rams-10-timeless-commandments-for-good-design

Today function is more important than design.