FMB starts making clinchers for road and cross

[fignon's barber]

https://bikerumor.com/2020/05/21/spotted-handmade-fmb-open-tubular-construction-for-clinchers-crossiscoming/

FMB has started offering open tubulars, handmade in France. Definitely a smart business move for them, as it opens the broader market. To me, cross is the last bastion for the tubular, but I bet they sell a bunch of these clinchers. I may give the Flanders model a try.

[Velocipede]

François makes a beautiful tire. I have more than a few on the way. I'm looking forward to the Racing 24.5 and the Pro Carbon 26's.

[fignon's barber]

Adding a layer of latex into the cotton casing seems to make sense. I've often wondered why that hasn't been a thing before (to my knowledge).

[Velocipede]

Adding a layer of latex into the cotton casing seems to make sense. I've often wondered why that hasn't been a thing before (to my knowledge).

The original Vittoria Open tires had a thin latex layer on the sidewalls and inside of the tire. Not sure why they stopped other than maybe cost. The original Open tires were wonderful. The downside was the insert center tread section would come unglued. Other than that, they were beautiful riding tires. The FMB Tires will be as well. François is known for it.

[Gabuyo]

New FMB Cobbles Open Tubular clinchers straight from the packaging. Zero miles. Just mounted:

[4151zero]

New FMB Cobbles Open Tubular clinchers straight from the packaging. Zero miles. Just mounted:

Yikes! surely the pro's fmb's dont have these issues!?

[rustychisel]

eek.

I see the problem.

[ernmony]

1698003567

[jtbadge]

Challenge 2.0? Yikes

[FlashUNC]

FMBs are great until they completely disintegrate for no reason. Will that be fresh outta the box or after 1500 miles? Only the universe knows.

[oldpotatoe]

New FMB Cobbles Open Tubular clinchers straight from the packaging. Zero miles. Just mounted:

VERY common on these and Dugast. I was going to comment on I hope they figured out a way to keep the tread stuck to the case better, I guess not..:eek:

NEW tire and tread coming off..and Gorilla glue??..I'm guessing you see how expensive these are, yes?

[AngryScientist]

mine are looking good, rolling fast and comfy!

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dWdCAM36CAs/Xv5h7LhoQmI/AAAAAAAAECM/FW-cTG6rnQUaKf9C787XRttD77b_icBxwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1200/IMG_5867.jpg

[mcteague]

Making a product and getting it on shelves, not too hard. Producing it consistently to a high standard, not so easy.

Tim

[merckx]

I have had extensive experience with FMB. QC and/or methodology is hit or miss.

[Monthly Payment]

Challenge 2.0? Yikes

I’ve had a lot more issues with Vittoria Corsas separating like OP than I have with Challenge open tubulars. The Elites and Paris-Roubaixs have worked really well for me. Nothing but praise for Challenge. YMMV, literally.

[jpritchet74]

mine are looking good, rolling fast and comfy!

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dWdCAM36CAs/Xv5h7LhoQmI/AAAAAAAAECM/FW-cTG6rnQUaKf9C787XRttD77b_icBxwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1200/IMG_5867.jpg

What's the inflated tire width on those Fulcrum Boras?

Also, if the tread was to come off like that, is Gorilla glue the best glue to use? I had that happen to some Veloflex tires a few years ago and tossed them. Should have just tried gluing the tread but hadn't thought of that at the time.

[Vamoots58]

i have had extensive experience with fmb. Qc and/or methodology is hit or miss.

+1

[Toddykins]

Funny, in my experience there is a lot of consistency - Not a single road or cx tubular I tried from FMB lasted more than a few hundred KM. Most common issue, tread separation.

[Jan Heine]

I've raced on FMB tubulars for 10 years now – on the same set of Super Muds that have been incredibly reliable and durable. (Caveat: I don't ride them on pavement, where the small knobs would wear out almost immediately, and I only race a few times a year.) The FMB's wonderful ride is what convinced us to sell them at Rene Herse Cycles. I finally will replace them this autumn. The sidewalls are starting to look scruffy from abrasions. FMBs also have a great reputation in the pro peloton, where a tread coming off could lose an important race or cause a crash. (The pros have to pay for their FMBs like everybody else, so they use them only in very important races where they want better tires than their sponsors offer.)

That said, tread separation can be an issue with all hand-glued tires. Basically, there are three ways to make a tire:

- Vulcanize: The tire is heated and partially melted to fuse casing and tread together. This is how most production tires, including our Rene Herse tires, are made. The tread is inseparable from the casing.
- The tread is glued onto an inflated tire casing. This is how FMB makes their tires.
- The tread is glued onto the casing while it's laying flat on a workbench. This is how most small-production tires (Challenge, etc.) are made.

The first two result in the tread naturally being in the shape of the inflated tire. The third has a flat tread, which is stretched into shape as you inflate the tire. When the tire flattens at the bottom of the wheel, it returns to its 'natural' state. As it leaves the ground, it stretches back to the round shape. This takes more energy than flattening a tire that is naturally round – we've compared tires made with both methods, and the flat-glued ones were significantly slower.

Why don't all boutique tire makers glue the tread onto the inflated casing? Apart from the fact that you need a wheel for each tire that you have in production, you also can't apply much pressure, since you're gluing the tread onto an air-filled tire casing. This means that the glue bond is not always perfect. It's usually not an issue, but if there are other factors compromising the glue bond, it's sometimes not enough to stick reliably. These other factors are usually humidity in the air – the glue doesn't work as well when it's hot and humid. That is why most boutique tire makers switched to flat-glued tires – where you can push down much harder – when they moved production to SE Asia (where it's hot and humid most of the time). FMB is in Brittany, where it rarely gets hot and humid. If it does, they don't glue treads on tires for a day or two.

We've been testing FMB's clincher tires, but some of the magic of the tubulars is lost in the process of converting them to open construction. As others mentioned, the clinchers have a rubber coating on the inside to protect the casing from damage as the tire is mounted. That makes them less supple than tubulars, which don't need protection on the inside. And since the tires aren't tubeless-compatible, it's hard to see them being popular in 'cross. For gravel riding, these might be wonderful, but 'cross racers will opt either for tubulars or for tubeless tires to avoid pinch flats.

Jan Heine
Rene Herse Cycles

[denapista]

I would be bummed if my tread looked like that fresh from packaging.. Nothing a simple brush of Mastik wouldn't fix though. I've had tread come up like that before, and simply glued it and never noticed it again..

[Gabuyo]

Also, if the tread was to come off like that, is Gorilla glue the best glue to use? I had that happen to some Veloflex tires a few years ago and tossed them. Should have just tried gluing the tread but hadn't thought of that at the time.
I did a little research and it seems a cyanoacrylate based glue will work the best for rubber adhesion. Gorilla has a few different formulas of glue, including one that is cyanoacrylate based, but the “original” formula is not ideal for bonding to rubber.

[Gabuyo]

Just a little update, FMB sent over a replacement, no questions asked, new tire has no issues. I did not need to return the faulty tire and I just glued the tread back on myself.

[martl]

i'm a sucker for traditionally built tires myself, but after some mixed experiences with "boutique" tires from Dugast and Challenge (super nice while they lasted, which wasnt very long due to quality imperfactions owed to the hand-made process), i stick to Veloflexes which seem to provide a good compromise between consistent quality and classic tire manufacturing

[Lionel]

i'm a sucker for traditionally built tires myself, but after some mixed experiences with "boutique" tires from Dugast and Challenge (super nice while they lasted, which wasnt very long due to quality imperfactions owed to the hand-made process), i stick to Veloflexes which seem to provide a good compromise between consistent quality and classic tire manufacturing

This is what I do as well. Veloflex are very consistent in my experience. Once in a while I buy a pair of FMB though. They always worked well for me.

[jpritchet74]

Can someone PLEASE get me an inflated tire width on a rim that's ~24mm wide external?

[jc031699]

VERY common on these and Dugast. I was going to comment on I hope they figured out a way to keep the tread stuck to the case better, I guess not..:eek:

NEW tire and tread coming off..and Gorilla glue??..I'm guessing you see how expensive these are, yes?


Totally agree. It happened to my tubulars too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jkbrwn]

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/03/fmb-cobbles-tlr-handmade-open-tubular-road-bike-tires-get-supple-tubeless-update/

New tubeless FMBs. That's a hard pass from me based on what I've read about their open tubulars. Sure do look pretty though :rolleyes:

[El Chaba]

FMB offering clinchers is sort of like SRAM pushing 1x....If you can’t get a front derailleur to work, design a group without one....For FMB, if you can’t figure out how to keep a base tape from peeling, make tires without one. Unfortunately, they still don’t know how to keep a tread from peeling.

[oldpotatoe]

FMB offering clinchers is sort of like SRAM pushing 1x....If you can’t get a front derailleur to work, design a group without one....For FMB, if you can’t figure out how to keep a base tape from peeling, make tires without one. Unfortunately, they still don’t know how to keep a tread from peeling.

What he said, along with Dugast...

Even JH says so.
That said, tread separation can be an issue with all hand-glued tires. :

[El Chaba]

It’s funny how tread peeling doesn’t seem to be an issue with Veloflex, and they are completely handmade as well....

[fignon's barber]

What he said, along with Dugast...

Even JH says so.


Last year I had the tread peel off a Vittoria Corsa G 2.0. Happens to the best of them.

[jpritchet74]

It’s funny how tread peeling doesn’t seem to be an issue with Veloflex, and they are completely handmade as well....

I had it happen to a Veloflex tire, but that was about 12 years ago. I am still riding Veloflex tires. Love 'em!

[rwsaunders]

I’m sorry, but I don’t subscribe to the “expect that to happen to your expensive handmade bike tire” pitch. Perhaps they should come with a small packet of glue, like one of those Purell hand sanitizer packets that the airlines hand out when you board.

[Velocipede]

I sell Veloflex and FMB to customers and actually import FMB Tires. Of the 400 FMB Tires (tubular and clincher) I brought in in the last year (since Jan 2019), I have none come back. I have had 2 Veloflex tires over the last 8+ years that have had tread issues or casing issues. One, completely destroyed trying to avoid a car. The other, a blown casing. The guy over inflated it. Due to natural causes, none. I have seen (online) and heard of the casing/glue problem on FMB, Veloflex, Vittoria, Ritchey and tons of others. It's just a thing. Not a good or bad thing. It's just a whatever in my opinion. It's like with Conti back in the day. You knew they would get the dark bursting spots. Or how Michelin tires would dry rot almost immediately. It's a whatever. For the Vittoria tires that have had tread issues, you take a bit of super glue and hold the tread down and they are fine. But this isn't specific to one brand and FMB and Veloflex make incredible tires.

[El Chaba]

I started using Veloflex tires back in the early 90s. In all of that time, I have never had a tread peel and have had maybe one or two basetapes start to peel LONG after the tires were retired from use and were residing strapped up under a saddle as a spare....Even then, most of the old spares I just retire from age and the basetapes are completely, firmly attached. They are amazing tires. I did have one tire about fifteen years ago that had a slow leak from new....maybe 5-10 psi/hour that rendered the tire an immediate retirement. I have owned about six FMBs in my life. All of them suffered from separating tread or basetapes-usually both- long before the tires were worn out. I removed them for those reasons and not treadwear. I love French bikes and French bike parts. I wanted badly to love FMBs. I just cannot justify that sort of expenditure with the track record I experienced...especially with the stellar record that I have experienced with Veloflex.

[rwsaunders]

I’ve used Veloflex tubulars for the past 8 years and no issues...same with Vittoria Paves. Every time that I get an urge to try the FMB’s (love the look of the blue wall PR’s), another picture like Gabuyo’s is posted and I pass. To each their own.

[earlfoss]

Yeah no thanks. They're beautiful tires but my experience with inconsistent tubular QC makes me gunshy on the clinchers. I see they make a tubeless version too... I can't help but imagine the issues people will have with those.

That said, I love FMB. The ones that I've had that haven't disintegrated unexpectedly before their time have been amazing. Great for racing, however, I just won't buy any more of them. I'd rather spend on something that rides 90% as nice and won't have me wondering when they'll give out.

[oldpotatoe]

It’s funny how tread peeling doesn’t seem to be an issue with Veloflex, and they are completely handmade as well....

Even tho 'hand made', like Vittoria's are, the tread is still 'vulcanized' to casing whereas Dugast and FMB, they are not. See post #19 above.

[El Chaba]

Even tho 'hand made', like Vittoria's are, the tread is still 'vulcanized' to casing whereas Dugast and FMB, they are not. See post #19 above.

No, Veloflex glues the treadbands onto inflated casings just like Dugast and FMB. Now, they have a factory jig so they are not using a bunch of loose wheels for the purpose. Here is a photo of the arrangement. On the top row are tires inflated and mounted on the “rim” jig...and after the treads are attached and lined up by hand and after a bit of drying time, they are collected up on the bar you see below to allow for more drying after the initial step.