Ugly incident w/Bethesda cyclist

[54ny77]

Among the things of what not to be doing while on a bike ride, this ranks up there.

https://twitter.com/VicStoddard/status/1268620623489560576

The politics of the situation aside, it's very hard to wrap one's head around this guy's actions to what he was doing to a little kid. Likely scared the beejezus out of the young lady.

[Mr. Pink]

It's getting hot out there. Long summer ahead.

[Clean39T]

Among the things of what not to be doing while on a bike ride, this ranks up there.

https://twitter.com/VicStoddard/status/1268620623489560576

The politics of the situation aside, it's very hard to wrap one's head around this guy's actions to what he was doing to a little kid. Likely scared the beejezus out of the young lady.

Caught via Strava, and arrested already. Hopefully charged with assaulting a minor.

[Mr. Pink]

Caught via Strava, and arrested already. Hopefully charged with assaulting a minor.

Ha, I was thinking when I read that, if you're going to do a crime, leave the Garmin and phone at home. Or, on the other hand, it would be a great alibi if accused of some crime ten miles away to just tell the officer, uh, sir, check my Strava.

[gasman]

“Maryland Attorney General Brian Frosh said Montgomery County Park Police have a suspect thanks to the “great response” to widely circulated video footage of the cyclist. An arrest is expected soon, sources said.”

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...lyers/2324220/

[Spdntrxi]

just wanna say twitter folk got it wrong twice..

in b4 the close...twitter can die

[slowpoke]

He's been arrested: https://twitter.com/ParkPolice/status/1269072236369121280

[makoti]

I'm sure the next thing is he's out of a job, if he has one. People need to think before they do anything these days. There's always a cell phone around

[Mr. Pink]

Lost his job. Not a good time for that, especially his age.

[Clean39T]

Lost his job. Not a good time for that, especially his age.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZyu9MEUwAMdQ5E?format=jpg&name=medium

[tuxbailey]

I wonder if he is a member of this forum.

[dave thompson]

The perp has been identified and has turned himself in.

[mistermo]

Lost his job. Not a good time for that, especially his age.

Yeah, I'm finding it hard to find joy in the knowledge that these perps have been caught and will now face extraordinary consequences. I don't feel relief, happiness, joy-anything positive.

I'm not defending their actions, and am appalled by them, but we've all had lapses in judgement, done stupid things, made big mistakes or snapped at one time or another. Whether its Karen Amy Cooper, or this guy, their victims walked away and the damage they've done to their own lives is substantial. Hard to revel in that.

[dgauthier]

(...) I'm not defending their actions, and am appalled by them, but we've all had lapses in judgement, done stupid things, made big mistakes or snapped at one time or another. (...)

I know what you mean. There are no winners here. It's too bleak.

You say we all do stupid things and yes, everybody has screwed up at one time or another. But do you know *anyone* who has told someone they were going to make up a lie to tell the police and then proceeded to do so, or do you know anyone who has assaulted a little girl while she was putting up posters?

These aren't people with lapses in judgement. These are extra special kinds of a$$holes, and they deserve -- heck, they've earned -- all the pain they get.

(Cycling-related content: The perpetrator appeared to be riding a nice lugged steel campy equipped bike...such a waste...) :P

[pooneej]

https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/gxkyss/the_cyclist_that_assaulted_the_girl_near_bethesda/

Is the Capital Crescent trail for real/legit riders or more for leisure pace riding type of cycling? Because typically bike paths I dont consider for serious cycling.

[Elefantino]

I foresee a lot of community service for this man. Well deserved.

[djg21]

Yeah, I'm finding it hard to find joy in the knowledge that these perps have been caught and will now face extraordinary consequences. I don't feel relief, happiness, joy-anything positive.

I'm not defending their actions, and am appalled by them, but we've all had lapses in judgement, done stupid things, made big mistakes or snapped at one time or another. Whether its Karen Amy Cooper, or this guy, their victims walked away and the damage they've done to their own lives is substantial. Hard to revel in that.

Short of self-defense, there is never any justification for resulting to physical violence, no less against a teenage woman who is fraction of one’s size, and no less when triggered by racial animus. If that is a lapse of judgment, it’s one for which Mr. Brennan should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Actions have consequences, and prisons are full of people who have have had momentary lapses in judgement, done stupid things, made mistakes, or snapped at one time or another. Interestingly, prisoners also are disproportionately black, and I don’t think one can say that this is because white men are less apt to have lapses in judgement, do stupid things, make mistakes or snap. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/image003.html.

This is a rhetorical question, but would we even be having this discussion if an African-American man had assaulted a small white woman on a bike trail? If no, why not? If yes, you can bet the discussion would look much different. Perhaps this is because whites enjoy some special privilege and status? Why is that? I would posit that this has our attention because the perp is a well-to-do 60 year old white guy on a Titanium bicycle.

Likewise, “Karen” Amy Cooper acted outright maliciously when she falsely reported Mr. Cooper. I hope she is prosecuted for filing a false report, and for anything else the Manhattan DA can muster. I hope the NY Division of Human Rights finds a way to go after her for violating the rights of the victims. I’m glad she lost her job.

These two are poster children for white privilege. I revel that they are being held accountable for their actions, and this may deter others from engaging in similar conduct.

[buddybikes]

https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/gxkyss/the_cyclist_that_assaulted_the_girl_near_bethesda/

Is the Capital Crescent trail for real/legit riders or more for leisure pace riding type of cycling? Because typically bike paths I dont consider for serious cycling.

Lets not get into that. I consider myself a legit rider - who uses (East Bay Bike path a lot), it is often a central artery before people branch off for their "real" ride

That was a step up in lack of judgement. Who here would EVER get in the face of someone other than your children's face like this, especially in Covid environment.

[Black Dog]

Yeah, I'm finding it hard to find joy in the knowledge that these perps have been caught and will now face extraordinary consequences. I don't feel relief, happiness, joy-anything positive.

I'm not defending their actions, and am appalled by them, but we've all had lapses in judgement, done stupid things, made big mistakes or snapped at one time or another. Whether its Karen Amy Cooper, or this guy, their victims walked away and the damage they've done to their own lives is substantial. Hard to revel in that.

The victims may have walked away with no physical harm but don't assume that they were not traumatized and will have to deal with what happened for a long time. These actions can have serious and life altering effects for the victims. Being female or a visible minority is hard enough without being victimized in an extraordinary way.

[mcteague]

Have any of you gotten a burst of adrenaline from bike ride?

https://wjla.com/news/local/mystery-solved-police-arrest-kensington-man-in-alleged-assault-on-capital-crescent-trail

According to defense attorney Andy Jezic, Brennan has been married for 31 years and has three adult children, ages 20, 27, and 30. The 60-year-old considers himself to be an avid outdoorsman, enjoying tennis, golf and bicycling. He has also attended the same Kensington church for many moons.

"Just a very stable life," Jezic noted. "He's been very active in raising his kids, coaching, things like that."

Jezic shared that Brennan has no history of violent or harassing behavior. Instead, he believes his client's mind was fogged by months of being cooped up inside his home, and the rush of an intense workout.
"I think adrenaline was pumping and he completely misperceived the actual meaning of the pamphlets, and he thought they were inciting of violence and rioting," Jezic opined. "He just perceived that as a call to further looting and he takes full responsibility for now realizing that there was nothing in the fliers that expressly advocated that."

[Black Dog]

Have any of you gotten a burst of adrenaline from bike ride?

https://wjla.com/news/local/mystery-solved-police-arrest-kensington-man-in-alleged-assault-on-capital-crescent-trail

According to defense attorney Andy Jezic, Brennan has been married for 31 years and has three adult children, ages 20, 27, and 30. The 60-year-old considers himself to be an avid outdoorsman, enjoying tennis, golf and bicycling. He has also attended the same Kensington church for many moons.

"Just a very stable life," Jezic noted. "He's been very active in raising his kids, coaching, things like that."

Jezic shared that Brennan has no history of violent or harassing behavior. Instead, he believes his client's mind was fogged by months of being cooped up inside his home, and the rush of an intense workout.
"I think adrenaline was pumping and he completely misperceived the actual meaning of the pamphlets, and he thought they were inciting of violence and rioting," Jezic opined. "He just perceived that as a call to further looting and he takes full responsibility for now realizing that there was nothing in the fliers that expressly advocated that."

Adrenaline combined with a extraordinary dose of middle aged white man entitlement. And to be fair not every middle aged white guy has this affliction. However, his actions were no better than the violence, rioting and looting that he has such a moral stance against. Now when it comes to inciting violence there is a poster boy for that. ;)

[Elefantino]

Yeah. Adrenaline, my backside.

[OtayBW]

Through his atty:
I am committed to making amends by addressing, through counseling, the underlying issues that led to my abhorrent behavior.

Translation: 'Make it 'All Better'....Yada Yada Yada......'

[NHAero]

I'm imagining the situation if the man was African-American and the same video went viral. Would the McMichaels and their supporters be out in their pickups looking for the perp to do a citizen's arrest with a shotgun? Would we be hearing statements from his attorney?

[ultraman6970]

IMO, the answer to that is.... We dont know because we can't assume things to answer that question with accuracy.

As for the second question, probably they did, probably they will. Dont want to put this on fire but for a while the media and media users pick what to highlight too. so you don't know. With cyclists injured happen the same, people never know... people is not told... some cases we never heard about it ever again. I got some stuff from a lady like 3 years ago, hubby died hitting a bridge, he hit the tiny stonewall and he went down to the river i imagine head on, like in the movies. I did not even know about it, i think a local newspaper picked up the news, tragic? hell yes... but I think non of the mainstream media picked the news at all. Many riders were with him that day too so is not that the news was not going to be able to get out. Media did not pick up the news because probably there was nothing that could sell anything for them? Im not into media but i imagine marketing is their thing too so....

Well, flipping to another subject. Looks like a good weather today, will be a good ride i hope.

[vincenz]

Knew it was only a matter of time before they got him. I used to ride that trail all the time and hearing something like this in this area sure is ugly.

I feel bad for the other misidentified people. Amateur Internet sleuths ruined a bunch of reputations. I don’t like having my face in public profiles for this reason. One poor guy got doxxed basically for wearing aviators like the perp.

[572cv]

I find myself appalled not only by the action taken, but by the failure to grasp the likelihood that it will be captured on camera. Utterly foolish and cruel at the same time. A phrase from 1968 seems apt: “The whole world’s watching, the whole world’s watching...”

[djg21]

Have any of you gotten a burst of adrenaline from bike ride?

I can think of a few instances when I’ve had heated confrontations with drivers. But I’ve never resorted to violence and would not unless my life or safety was being threatened. This is no excuse.

[unterhausen]

I am pretty sure that I'm a bit more sane if I have been riding.

[flydhest]

I foresee a lot of community service for this man. Well deserved.


Community service ... sadly, I suspect you are right about that ... respectfully, I disagree that that penalty is what is deserved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NHAero]

Yes, and at the same time, when we ask the same question about the actions we see committed by police, it is becoming clear that the ones committing them believe that there will be no redress, that they can act with impunity.

Mr. Floyd's murder has changed the way I think about policing, and violence (committed by police and others) and its inevitability and its potential cures. I don't have answers but I now know that serious thought has occurred on this topic, and I need to learn more. I no longer subscribe to the "few bad apples" theory. The Buffalo Police crowd control mass resignation is one indication of how unnecessary violence is accepted across the board.

I find myself appalled not only by the action taken, but by the failure to grasp the likelihood that it will be captured on camera. Utterly foolish and cruel at the same time. A phrase from 1968 seems apt: “The whole world’s watching, the whole world’s watching...”

[LJohnny]

https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/gxkyss/the_cyclist_that_assaulted_the_girl_near_bethesda/



Is the Capital Crescent trail for real/legit riders or more for leisure pace riding type of cycling? Because typically bike paths I dont consider for serious cycling.


This trail gets really busy and not a place where I’d would go for even a leisure ride in the past. Since the pandemic, I have no idea how busy it currently is, but in the olde times, there is walkers, people with dogs, frequently without proper restrain, rollerbladers, and families with small kids. In fact, i took my kids there for a walk once and thought it was way too dangerous, found better trails for walking with the fam. Again, this before the pandemic.

I am local and this whole situation is just a sad outcome for everyone involved. When i saw the video and pics, I thought the guy looked somewhat familiar, and sort of remembered seen guys with the similar bikes, similar looks, but it turns out that after he has been positively identified and charged, I really did not know who this person is, and I was off on my personal guessing game (kept to myself nonetheless). I think the Strava sleuthing was kind of weird/scary and feel bad for the persons that were misidentified and harassed.

[rain dogs]

Watching and reading the news out of the US lately is a trip... what is going on over there?

breathe people... breathe. Except those of you who can't... they have a right to be very, very angry. That I understand.

That guy is a cop, out for a bike ride and he decides to assault three people? Why is he so out of control? And not just he, like thousands like him!

Bonkers.

[echappist]

The victims may have walked away with no physical harm but don't assume that they were not traumatized and will have to deal with what happened for a long time. These actions can have serious and life altering effects for the victims. Being female or a visible minority is hard enough without being victimized in an extraordinary way.

Basically this. Just because it appears at first glance nothing "too bad" occurred to the victim is not exculpatory for the offender. The offenders are merely "lucky" that their actions didn't precipitate anything worse (in that they weren't be criminally or civilly liable to more serious charges). That still does not negate their intentions to cause harm.

I don't like analogies, but it would be similar to someone using a weapon to harm someone else, only to realize that the weapon was ineffective to cause harm (too dull, jammed, etc.). The intent to harm is still there, that no serious harm resulted merely means that the perp won't get charged on more serious counts, but the perp will still get charged with attempted assault and/or battery.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/gxkyss/the_cyclist_that_assaulted_the_girl_near_bethesda/

Is the Capital Crescent trail for real/legit riders or more for leisure pace riding type of cycling? Because typically bike paths I dont consider for serious cycling.

Both. Commuters use it, but so do a lot of serious roadies (both are real/legit riders, as is anyone who rides). When I first moved to the area, I used it a lot to get to the western DC suburbs (Montgomery County), as it offered a car-free route from Georgetown to McArthur Blvd. I even used it for more serious training (it's a converted rail to trail with a slight incline), before I realized I could do pretty much the same at Hains Point

All this is quite tangential though in the context of this story.



I find myself appalled not only by the action taken, but by the failure to grasp the likelihood that it will be captured on camera. Utterly foolish and cruel at the same time. A phrase from 1968 seems apt: “The whole world’s watching, the whole world’s watching...”

Part of it is that society is still adapting.

About six years back on River Road (main road out to western Montgomery County), a friend and I were accosted by a really annoying rider who drafted off of us, surged, only to be caught again, and repeated the same shtick all over again. Finally, after getting caught one too many times, he pulled up to me and started a monologue. I didn't respond at all. Seeing that he wasn't getting any sort of response, he finally started ranting about hiring a young woman of color and described her using quite a few slurs.

My friend and I were a bit shocked. But knowing that I couldn't drop him (I was averaging 300 W pulling), I basically eased up, so that he could pull away and get away from us. Had I had a camera (which I now do), things would have taken a very different turn for him. But as we didn't (and were still about an hour away from the end of the ride), after we were done, we couldn't even quite remember the kit he was wearing (other than it's not a kit of one of the locally known teams). We surmised that he must have raced, given that he appeared strong, but couldn't do too much else.

Doubt he'd be as brazen these days, but sometimes people have gotten so used to getting away with things (even recently), that it just doesn't register.

[Clean39T]

Yes, and at the same time, when we ask the same question about the actions we see committed by police, it is becoming clear that the ones committing them believe that there will be no redress, that they can act with impunity.

Mr. Floyd's murder has changed the way I think about policing, and violence (committed by police and others) and its inevitability and its potential cures. I don't have answers but I now know that serious thought has occurred on this topic, and I need to learn more. I no longer subscribe to the "few bad apples" theory. The Buffalo Police crowd control mass resignation is one indication of how unnecessary violence is accepted across the board.

The actions of the police in Portland in response to peaceful demonstrations has changed how I think and feel about policing as well - and will influence who I vote for at the local level and how I vote on budget/bond measures for sure.

Our "police" have been attacking peaceful demonstrators, including minors, the disabled and the press, with chemical weapons, steel bullets (coated in rubber), and percussive noise machines that cause permanent hearing loss/damage.

There is no other word to describe them but state-sponsored "terrorists" - they are using indiscriminate violence on civilians as a way to intimidate and control them, and deny them their basic rights as US citizens.

The police must be demilitarized and held accountable for their actions.

We used to invade countries (ostensibly) to prevent them from doing to their citizens what we are now doing to ours.

Think about it.

[Pegoready]

That guy is a cop, out for a bike ride and he decides to assault three people? Why is he so out of control? And not just he, like thousands like him!

Bonkers.

That guy is not a cop, that’s part of the troubling aspects of this situation. He was misidentified as a marketing exec, then a cop, and two innocent people are now branded by this situation. In the end it appears he’s a sales VP for a branding company. Retired now I’m sure. At age 60 he’s not finding another job.

[Clean39T]

...

[rain dogs]

That guy is not a cop, that’s part of the troubling aspects of this situation. He was misidentified as a marketing exec, then a cop, and two innocent people are now branded by this situation. In the end it appears he’s a sales VP for a branding company. Retired now I’m sure. At age 60 he’s not finding another job.

TBH it doesn't matter what his occupation is/was. Cop, Sales VP, Baker, Barber.... that is a man out of control, who instead should be relaxing enjoying the sun and riding his bike.

Unplug your TV's

[ColonelJLloyd]

I mean, it sucks for them, but it's not like they were killed in their own house by police who showed up at the wrong address.

On March 13, 2020, Breonna Taylor, a 26-year-old African-American woman, was fatally shot by Louisville Metro Police Department officers. Sergeant Jonathan Mattingly, Detective Brett Hankison, and Detective Myles Cosgrove forced entry into her apartment in Louisville, Kentucky under the authority of a search warrant.

The police showed up at the address they intended to, the address on the "no knock" warrant. An address some 10 miles away (a world away in a city) from the home at which it was suspected drugs were being stored or sold. I only share this because I suspect you care about accuracy.

I don't use social media, but I'm not clear what, if any, lasting negative implications there will be for the misidentified persons. Everyone now knows they are not the person that committed the heinous assault.

[seanile]

This is a rhetorical question, but would we even be having this discussion if an African-American man had assaulted a small white woman on a bike trail? If no, why not? If yes, you can bet the discussion would look much different. Perhaps this is because whites enjoy some special privilege and status? Why is that? I would posit that this has our attention because the perp is a well-to-do 60 year old white guy on a Titanium bicycle.

strong point

The police showed up at the address they intended to, the address on the "no knock" warrant. An address some 10 miles away (a world away in a city) from the home at which it was suspected drugs were being stored or sold. I only share this because I suspect you care about accuracy.

I don't use social media, but I'm not clear what, if any, lasting negative implications there will be for the misidentified persons. Everyone now knows they are not the person that committed the heinous assault.

except when a hurried HR person googles your name and doesn't read beyond the one mention of your name as the suspect.

[Clean39T]

The police showed up at the address they intended to, the address on the "no knock" warrant. An address some 10 miles away (a world away in a city) from the home at which it was suspected drugs were being stored or sold. I only share this because I suspect you care about accuracy.


You're right. Foggy brain, not enough coffee. It's a f'd up situation all the same, but I don't want to mis-state the facts. Post edited.

[ColonelJLloyd]

except when a hurried HR person googles your name and doesn't read beyond the one mention of your name as the suspect.

That's fair. FWIW, I'm not advocating for social media sleuthing or doxxing or any of that.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Foggy brain, not enough coffee.

Been there.

It's a f'd up situation all the same <snip>

It's a travesty without question.

[unterhausen]

I like that trail, although I can't remember if I have been on it once or twice. Can't be two crowded, nobody showed up during the whole incident. Commuting times can be a bit hairy, people are going really fast on the trail and there are walkers to make it a bit more chaotic.

[572cv]

Yes, and at the same time, when we ask the same question about the actions we see committed by police, it is becoming clear that the ones committing them believe that there will be no redress, that they can act with impunity.

Mr. Floyd's murder has changed the way I think about policing, and violence (committed by police and others) and its inevitability and its potential cures. I don't have answers but I now know that serious thought has occurred on this topic, and I need to learn more. I no longer subscribe to the "few bad apples" theory. The Buffalo Police crowd control mass resignation is one indication of how unnecessary violence is accepted across the board.

A clear observation, I agree. Much of the police in America are organized for self protection and advocacy. They defend their tribe and approach. It is not just a case of a few bad apples, but the structure and philosophy, if you can call it that, of policing in most departments. But this is not true everywhere.

I was a selectman for a few decades much of which was as board chair, and had to confront many public issues, one of which was the need to start a police department in a town that did not have one previously. In doing copious background research, I came upon the emerging concept of Community Policing. It is, and has been, a thing for a while. Much more like English policing, it's goal is to work with the community, earn trust, build networks, and be the face of the community's ethos in seeking a safe place to live, work and do business. I used this as the basis for the purpose of the police department and hired according to these principles.

Over the years, the founding principles have held, have attracted likeminded officers, have earned the trust of the community and have been remarkably effective. In an additional effort to be trusted and to be effective, all of our police are EMTs.

I can therefore harbor hope that policing in America can change, as it must, and can be more effective not through exclusion but through inclusion. It is a cultural change in addition to any other structure which is in the way.

[Spdntrxi]

You're right. Foggy brain, not enough coffee. It's a f'd up situation all the same, but I don't want to mis-state the facts. Post edited.

I thought Taylors boyfriend or whatever also opened fire on the police... so there's that too. Totally different situation. Mr Walker got Taylor killed , not the police.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Mr Walker got Taylor killed , not the police.

Making a statement like this is only intended to hurt people. It's ugly and juvenile.

[Spdntrxi]

Making a statement like this is only intended to hurt people. It's ugly and juvenile.

:rolleyes:

I'm blaming Mr Walker, not the victim. so whatever. It's sad all around but you need live in realzville. Who are you blaming ? the police ? the judge who issued the no-knock warrant ? Miss Taylor ? Get over yourself.

[gasman]

Stop it !

Let's stick to the Bethesda incident . We don't have video of the killing of Ms. Taylor unlike the Bethesda encounter.

[Spdntrxi]

Roger that..

[Spdntrxi]

anybody else upset of the "twitter hunters" that unleashed on the wrong guy. I hope those users get sued for defamation, because that's they only way they will learn.

[saab2000]

TBH it doesn't matter what his occupation is/was. Cop, Sales VP, Baker, Barber.... that is a man out of control, who instead should be relaxing enjoying the sun and riding his bike.

Unplug your TV's

It doesn’t matter what he does. What matters is that two people have been dragged through the mud and convicted in the court of social media hysteria before the facts were known.

Before posting on social media (and this place is social media) facts need to be verified.

[Toeclips]

If the guy was even serious about riding he would never had read the flyers in the first place
Passing through....was all that was needed

[Dekonick]

The actions of the police in Portland in response to peaceful demonstrations has changed how I think and feel about policing as well - and will influence who I vote for at the local level and how I vote on budget/bond measures for sure.

Our "police" have been attacking peaceful demonstrators, including minors, the disabled and the press, with chemical weapons, steel bullets (coated in rubber), and percussive noise machines that cause permanent hearing loss/damage.

There is no other word to describe them but state-sponsored "terrorists" - they are using indiscriminate violence on civilians as a way to intimidate and control them, and deny them their basic rights as US citizens.

The police must be demilitarized and held accountable for their actions.

We used to invade countries (ostensibly) to prevent them from doing to their citizens what we are now doing to ours.

Think about it.

THIS - We need to start de-funding police departments and re-allocating funds elsewhere. Just as OSHA fines companies for safety violations, so should police departments have their budgets hit - and hard - for human rights violations. Want change? Hit them in the wallet. Civil settlements should not be paid by the city, but from the police budget. Budget should reflect citizen satisfaction scores, as well as crime statistics. My bet is things would change.

[Spdntrxi]

you want to defund the police.. I'm buying stock in arms makers then. Sales will go bonkers.

[Dekonick]

A clear observation, I agree. Much of the police in America are organized for self protection and advocacy. They defend their tribe and approach. It is not just a case of a few bad apples, but the structure and philosophy, if you can call it that, of policing in most departments. But this is not true everywhere.

I was a selectman for a few decades much of which was as board chair, and had to confront many public issues, one of which was the need to start a police department in a town that did not have one previously. In doing copious background research, I came upon the emerging concept of Community Policing. It is, and has been, a thing for a while. Much more like English policing, it's goal is to work with the community, earn trust, build networks, and be the face of the community's ethos in seeking a safe place to live, work and do business. I used this as the basis for the purpose of the police department and hired according to these principles.



Over the years, the founding principles have held, have attracted likeminded officers, have earned the trust of the community and have been remarkably effective. In an additional effort to be trusted and to be effective, all of our police are EMTs.

I can therefore harbor hope that policing in America can change, as it must, and can be more effective not through exclusion but through inclusion. It is a cultural change in addition to any other structure which is in the way.

Howard County does an excellent job with their police department. They spend the time to educate the officers on culture, mental illness, medical emergencies, etc... In addition, they all have defibrillators and narcan. I can honestly report the Ho Co PD has saved numerous lives that might have been treated differently elsewhere... Sure, they still have burnout and become jaded - but overall the department represents well. I just am amazed and saddened by what we are witnessing nation wide. It does not need to be this way. More Mayberry, less Seal Team Six...

[Toeclips]

I live in Columbia and I have lots of respect for hoco cops

Thank a cop they need it

[mistermo]

The victims may have walked away with no physical harm but don't assume that they were not traumatized and will have to deal with what happened for a long time. These actions can have serious and life altering effects for the victims. Being female or a visible minority is hard enough without being victimized in an extraordinary way.

My post wasn't intended to minimize the affect on the victims. Instead, it was intended as an attempt at compassion and grace. My example is Christian Cooper, the target of Karen Amy Cooper. If he can display this kind of forgiveness, then I'm going to use him as my example. Retribution isn't the answer. He should be an inspiration to all of us.


"“Any of us can make — not necessarily a racist mistake, but a mistake,” Christian Cooper said. “And to get that kind of tidal wave in such a compressed period of time, it’s got to hurt. It’s got to hurt. I’m not excusing the racism, but I don’t know if her life needed to be torn apart.”⁣

Christian Cooper response (https://youtu.be/b6sF8qivmEo?t=297)

[elcolombiano]

THIS - We need to start de-funding police departments and re-allocating funds elsewhere. Just as OSHA fines companies for safety violations, so should police departments have their budgets hit - and hard - for human rights violations. Want change? Hit them in the wallet. Civil settlements should not be paid by the city, but from the police budget. Budget should reflect citizen satisfaction scores, as well as crime statistics. My bet is things would change.

You want to de-fund the Police? I would like to see the opposite. Have a more professional, better trained and educated police. This costs money. De-funding the police only makes matter worse. It's not just throwing money. Its how you use the money also. The management of the police should be held accountable for the officers on the street. They are they ones that train them, set the policy and supervise them.

[Red Tornado]

you want to defund the police.. I'm buying stock in arms makers then. Sales will go bonkers.

Yes they will. Defund the police and we citizens will have to do the policing. That could degrade into something resembling the wild west over time if left un-checked. Is that what we really want? I sure don't.

There is a lot that needs changed in our police departments, but I don't see defunding as the answer. Other ideas for changes have been made in this thread that would go further than what is in place now towards increasing police accountability for their actions. Something along those lines should be tried first.

[jtbadge]

Training and reform have gotten us absolutely nowhere in the last few decades. There is no oversight or accountability, most police departments feel they can get away with whatever they want. Basic human rights are being violated nationwide and the police are neither serving nor protecting the citizens that pay their salary - we are being antagonized and abused. These practically limitless budgets need to be replaced with actual community services.

[Spdntrxi]

Yes they will. Defund the police and we citizens will have to do the policing. That could degrade into something resembling the wild west over time if left un-checked. Is that what we really want? I sure don't.

There is a lot that needs changed in our police departments, but I don't see defunding as the answer. Other ideas for changes have been made in this thread that would go further than what is in place now towards increasing police accountability for their actions. Something along those lines should be tried first.

defunding is non-starter.. this is just dreaming to defund the military. It's nothing more then a pipe dream.

[zero85ZEN]

I have a friend that is a retired state trooper (and former road cyclist before a shoulder injury curtailed his riding), he is, and has been for years, absolutely appalled by the current state of law enforcement culture in this country.
He places a large amount of blame on the militarization of police departments that has been going on for the past 10 or 15 years as a result of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars; tons of military surplus gear has been “rerouted” into PDs everywhere. This, combined with a cultural shift in training from community service and intervention with a focus on deescalation to a solely Law Enforcement focused approach has led us to the sorry state we’re in.
He is embarrassed to tell people he is a retired Leo.
Change needs to happen from the top. And it needs to be multifaceted in the approach/implementation.

[weisan]

I wrote this earlier in the morning but did not post, now is the time.

There are certain posters that exist in this forum...I won't name names but they are self evident and obvious once I point out their MO.

They write short, provocative sentences without taking the time to provide any substantiation, fact/evidence-based explanation, well-reasoned thinking to back up what they say, like what normal decent people do. It's like they farted and then simply left the room with people inside having to deal with the odor. Or they activated the smoke alarm and water sprinklers and left to others to clean up the mess. Their sole purpose here is to disrupt, sow division, create noise, chaos and destruction.

They are not innocent bystanders. They know what they did and who they are.

We can feed the troll or we can ignore them.

They don't provide any real value in the conversation and they have an inflated view of their self-importance and what they have to say.

It's beneath me even to engage them...so I don't.

Just watch....they will act again. They can't help themselves. You will know it when you see it.

This has nothing to do with free speech. Any self-respecting person with a sound mind and a good character would not resort to such low tactic.

This is not a personal attack. Your own actions brought this upon yourself...at least have the decency and personal responsibility to own up to what you did. But maybe even this is too much to ask, I think.

I always tell people. In real life, I don't mind as$holes, because sometimes I am one myself depending on the situation....but as long as we are honest and own up to being one. But once we go into self-denial and constant lies, we are no longer just as$holes, we are worse than that....much worse.

[gasman]

I wrote this earlier in the morning but did not post, now is the time.

There are certain posters that exist in this forum...I won't name names but they are self evident and obvious once I point out their MO.

They write short, provocative sentences without taking the time to provide any substantiation, fact/evidence-based explanation, well-reasoned thinking to back up what they say, like what normal decent people do. It's like they farted and then simply left the room with people inside having to deal with the odor. Or they activated the smoke alarm and water sprinklers and left to others to clean up the mess. Their sole purpose here is to disrupt, sow division, create noise, chaos and destruction.

They are not innocent bystanders. They know what they did and who they are.

We can feed the troll or we can ignore them.

They don't provide any real value in the conversation and they have an inflated view of their self-importance and what they have to say.

It's beneath me even to engage them...so I don't.

Just watch....they will act again. They can't help themselves. You will know it when you see it.

This has nothing to do with free speech. Any self-respecting person with a sound mind and a good character would not resort to such low tactic.

This is not a personal attack. Your own actions brought this upon yourself...at least have the decency and personal responsibility to own up to what you did. But maybe even this is too much to ask, I think.

I always tell people. In real life, I don't mind as$holes, because sometimes I am one myself depending on the situation....but as long as we are honest and own up to being one. But once we go into self-denial and constant lies, we are no longer just as$holes, we are worse than that....much worse.


Very true Wise one

[Alaska Mike]

Back to the subject at hand:

That guy isn't a cyclist. That guy is just an an entitled douche on a bike. Just like the meth-head on a stolen bike isn't a cyclist. Just like a multi-DUI offender that has to ride a bike because he can't get a license. Just because they happen to be on a bike, doesn't make them cyclists.

When I'm out riding, I'm at my most civil. Sure, when I'm alone I will scream profanities into the wind or whatever to work out whatever frustrations vex me, but soon I'll be calm and settled and marveling and the wonders of God and nature. Endorphins are awesome.

Also, I'm wearing lycra and shoes with awkward walking cleats. I'm not going to start something dressed like that. Considering that the kit I wear bears logos of businesses owned by people I like and respect, I won't go there. I try to avoid conflict as much as possible and stay within the boundaries of the law- except for stop signs. :cool:

I ride with guys on very polarized sides of the political spectrum. From ANTIFA sympathizers to birthers. We keep our discussions of politics civil or don't have them at all. We're there to ride our bikes, not tear down or perpetuate social hierarchies (except in the cycling sense). I've managed to offend them all, and they've all managed to offend me at one point or another. Somehow we manage to get past it and ride. Because, bikes.

This guy went out of his way to confront and assault. He wasn't standing up for what is "right", he was forcefully inflicting his beliefs on others. He's a douche, and to have him labeled as a cyclist in national news media is an insult to me.

[jtbadge]

There is no such thing as an ANTIFA sympathizer, that is not an organization or group of any kind. You are either pro facism or you are anti facism.

[Clean39T]

you want to defund the police.. I'm buying stock in arms makers then. Sales will go bonkers.

Defunding the police doesn't mean "no police" - it means rearranging priorities, training, tactics, and outcomes.

Demilitarizing the police doesn't mean they can't carry guns or that there are no SWAT teams (we'd need to ban and confiscate assault rifles before that can happen) - it means we don't arm them for everyday work like they are going to war or train them to act like American citizens are enemy combatants - or give them the clearance to use chemical or permanently disabling weapons against non-lethal threats, or worse, innocent bystanders.

You're creating a false dichotomy as a way to delegitimize the argument. And I think you know it, but are doing it anyway.

[Dino Suegiù]

Christian Cooper's reply was mature and honorable but one hopes that the effect is not to then adopt it (or the conduct of some Howard County, MD police officers specifically) as then standing for "good" in general. (I know this was not mistermo's, Toeclip's, or Dekonck's intention; I am speaking more broadly.)

Cooper v Cooper was a very unique circumstance, and Karen Cooper's actions were on the "easier" end of the scale to forgive, if one were so inclined. The confrontations being protested these days are much more than several levels of vileness above Cooper v Cooper.

Likewise clearly a county like Howard, MD, with its demographics, probably does have a pretty good PD. The police departments being protested these days are much more than several levels of vileness above Howard County.

For any of us, our father could be Martin Gugino in Buffalo. I am not Christian Cooper, but I doubt that even he would have forgiven all those Buffalo PD officers if that man was his father. I would not, ever.

Anthony Brennan's actions were/are reprehensible, far more than Karen Cooper's, and he does not deserve "forgiveness" from his victims, those teens.

And yet sadly and far more common the actions of the collective BPD in the Gugino moment, and the tone-deaf "we support our brother leos!" ERT protest resignations by the 57 the next day, were/are far more reprehensible than those of a nutcase woman in Central Park or even a lone idiot unhinged cyclist, if for no other reason than because, despite potential shared personality traits, at least Brennan's activities as a (vigilante) cyclist and his uniform and gear were not paid for by our taxes.

And yet some feel it courageous and strong to call for even more force from PDs across the nation. The USA is not Turkey, Egypt, Syria, Pinochet's Chile, North Korea, China, etc. Still, PD "reassignments and suspensions" in the USA are occurring more every day recently so perhaps that heavy-handed needs to be radically rethought, from top to bottom. Hopefully it will be, all of it.

The collective, trained, historical and self-propagating conduct of many PDs in this country is not forgivable under any circumstances. If anything, they should be forgiving us, the people these organizations are ostensibly sworn to protect and serve, by treating all citizens equally and fairly.

The problem clearly deserves massive and substantial long-term investigation and informed discussion/decision debates, otherwise this "fabric" we call our world really will completely unravel for our children and theirs. If "defunding" means "you cannot not buy 50 more anti-tank guns this year, but must instead move that money into providing better training, smaller units with better leadership, less stress/fatigue, more awareness and education", I would vote yes. The anti-tank guns aren't stopping a thing, clearly, because the actual problem isn't rolling down the street in a tank.

[jemoryl]

Look into how much big city police forces pay out each year to settle abuse lawsuits. One proposal that I like: instead of these funds coming from the taxpayer, it comes out of the police pension fund. Might encourage a bit more caution on the part of the abusers.

[Dino Suegiù]

Back to the subject at hand:

That guy isn't a cyclist.
...
I do not think that is the subject at hand actually, here or in the national media. The reputation of cyclists, however defined, will survive Anthony Brennan's actions and media portrayal. Citizens of all stripes, not just cyclists per se, are outraged by (or supportive of in some cases) what the man did.

[Clean39T]

I wrote this earlier in the morning but did not post, now is the time.

There are certain posters that exist in this forum...I won't name names but they are self evident and obvious once I point out their MO.

They write short, provocative sentences without taking the time to provide any substantiation, fact/evidence-based explanation, well-reasoned thinking to back up what they say, like what normal decent people do. It's like they farted and then simply left the room with people inside having to deal with the odor. Or they activated the smoke alarm and water sprinklers and left to others to clean up the mess. Their sole purpose here is to disrupt, sow division, create noise, chaos and destruction.

They are not innocent bystanders. They know what they did and who they are.

We can feed the troll or we can ignore them.

They don't provide any real value in the conversation and they have an inflated view of their self-importance and what they have to say.

It's beneath me even to engage them...so I don't.

Just watch....they will act again. They can't help themselves. You will know it when you see it.

This has nothing to do with free speech. Any self-respecting person with a sound mind and a good character would not resort to such low tactic.

This is not a personal attack. Your own actions brought this upon yourself...at least have the decency and personal responsibility to own up to what you did. But maybe even this is too much to ask, I think.

I always tell people. In real life, I don't mind as$holes, because sometimes I am one myself depending on the situation....but as long as we are honest and own up to being one. But once we go into self-denial and constant lies, we are no longer just as$holes, we are worse than that....much worse.

Thank you for posting that.

I'm done being silent. But I am trying to keep things civil and fact-based.

I'm expecting my time here is coming to a close though. If people like those you are pointing out continue to be allowed to spew hatred and then step back and hide in the brevity of their provoking statements, I really don't want to be associated with this place - as much as I care about and enjoy talking with the rest of you. We can hang on IG, or ATH :beer:

[Spdntrxi]

Defunding the police doesn't mean "no police" - it means rearranging priorities, training, tactics, and outcomes.

Demilitarizing the police doesn't mean they can't carry guns or that there are no SWAT teams (we'd need to ban and confiscate assault rifles before that can happen) - it means we don't arm them for everyday work like they are going to war or train them to act like American citizens are enemy combatants - or give them the clearance to use chemical or permanently disabling weapons against non-lethal threats, or worse, innocent bystanders.

You're creating a false dichotomy as a way to delegitimize the argument. And I think you know it, but are doing it anyway.

No you are 100% incorrect. "defunding" the police is exactly what it means. I'm all for rearranging priorities , training, tactics and outcomes. Defunding means taking away funds from police, prisons etc and "reinvesting" those funds into "services" ..whatever that really means. Public safety maybe ? They and I mean those calling for defunding want the money to be used for housing, employment, education, it's endless. Things that we already fund.

Sure all these things sound great, but I guess my big issue is with who is handling it and how these funds are to be allocated.(same problem we already have) I certainly dont trust the government and local officials to do it. You know that saying other peoples money and all. I'm jaded being in California I guess , so I'm a cynic.

If you think I'm making up what "defunding" means you are kidding yourself... google it.

I never said no police and I never said a word about demilitarization just to be clear.

[AngryScientist]

Thank you for posting that.

I'm done being silent. But I am trying to keep things civil and fact-based.

I'm expecting my time here is coming to a close though. If people like those you are pointing out continue to be allowed to spew hatred and then step back and hide in the brevity of their provoking statements, I really don't want to be associated with this place - as much as I care about and enjoy talking with the rest of you. We can hang on IG, or ATH :beer:

i take this statement very personally. no one "spews hatred" here on my watch. i am disappointed to hear you say this.

[XXtwindad]

Have any of you gotten a burst of adrenaline from bike ride?

https://wjla.com/news/local/mystery-solved-police-arrest-kensington-man-in-alleged-assault-on-capital-crescent-trail

According to defense attorney Andy Jezic, Brennan has been married for 31 years and has three adult children, ages 20, 27, and 30. The 60-year-old considers himself to be an avid outdoorsman, enjoying tennis, golf and bicycling. He has also attended the same Kensington church for many moons.

"Just a very stable life," Jezic noted. "He's been very active in raising his kids, coaching, things like that."

Jezic shared that Brennan has no history of violent or harassing behavior. Instead, he believes his client's mind was fogged by months of being cooped up inside his home, and the rush of an intense workout.
"I think adrenaline was pumping and he completely misperceived the actual meaning of the pamphlets, and he thought they were inciting of violence and rioting," Jezic opined. "He just perceived that as a call to further looting and he takes full responsibility for now realizing that there was nothing in the fliers that expressly advocated that."

Sounds like an updated version of the “Twinkie Defense.” Everyone is lucky (the perp included) that he wasn’t behind the wheel of a car when this happened.

[Clean39T]

No you are 100% incorrect. "defunding" the police is exactly what it means. I'm all for rearranging priorities , training, tactics and outcomes. Defunding means taking away funds from police, prisons etc and "reinvesting" those funds into "services" ..whatever that really means. Public safety maybe ? They and I mean those calling for defunding want the money to be used for housing, employment, education, it's endless. Things that we already fund.

Sure all these things sound great, but I guess my big issue is with who is handling it and how these funds are to be allocated.(same problem we already have) I certainly dont trust the government and local officials to do it. You know that saying other peoples money and all. I'm jaded being in California I guess , so I'm a cynic.

Thank you for the response - agreeing on the problem is the first step - from there we can continue the dialogue - and by we, I mean experts who can help us sort through this and come up with some proposals - I am not those experts..

[Spdntrxi]

Thank you for the response - agreeing on the problem is the first step - from there we can continue the dialogue - and by we, I mean experts who can help us sort through this and come up with some proposals - I am not those experts..

no expert here either.. this is going to take everyone's involvement. It will be extremely difficult as everyone I think will be in the "protect their own" mentality. The police, the government officials, community leaders and so on. There is going to have to be huge control concessions given.

[tuxbailey]

Howard County does an excellent job with their police department. They spend the time to educate the officers on culture, mental illness, medical emergencies, etc... In addition, they all have defibrillators and narcan. I can honestly report the Ho Co PD has saved numerous lives that might have been treated differently elsewhere... Sure, they still have burnout and become jaded - but overall the department represents well. I just am amazed and saddened by what we are witnessing nation wide. It does not need to be this way. More Mayberry, less Seal Team Six...

Yeah, seeing everything that is going around I feel spoiled by living at place with a decent police department.

[Dino Suegiù]

i take this statement very personally. no one "spews hatred" here on my watch. i am disappointed to hear you say this.
One would hope perhaps that it would be more "our" (the so-called "community", whatever that means, here) rather than "my" (the singular ones, whether moderators or not) watch, given the nature of the topics being discussed.

I do think that a few people do in fact "spew hatred" or whatever term is less offensive here, often without apparent repercussion (and that could potentially include forum moderators in general, any forum, no one is exempt). Some members definitely toe the line with relative impunity, except that "the line" is in fact more a vague, complex territory resisting any easy and convenient definition. Ironically, sometimes even democracy plays in that territory, or at least tries to do so. It gets complicated.

However, I do think that any "offenders" constitute a vast minority, are easily enough ignored, and so in fact I also find the calls for the censorship of a few by another few to be equally odd, disheartening, hypocritical, and even insulting. I have no idea whose judgment would or should obtain, or what any solution is anymore, either "here" or "out there" irl, but the fatigue from all sides feels very real. It is confusing.

[ntb1001]

Wow...just watched the video. Personal political beliefs aside...if that was my daughter that guy approached, his bike and probably himself would’ve been chucked over that fence!!!

Complete D-Bag!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[572cv]

Yeah, seeing everything that is going around I feel spoiled by living at place with a decent police department.

You aren't spoiled because you have experienced something that was done right in policing. The trick is to figure out how to make good policing the rule everywhere... the rule, not the exception. If you are experiencing a decent police department, the question is how to communicate the why and how of what they are doing to anyone who will listen. That 'anyone' has to be the government within which the police function, and everyone has to believe that any change that is promulgated will be more beneficial and effective than what they are doing currently.

[Alaska Mike]

I do not think that is the subject at hand actually, here or in the national media. The reputation of cyclists, however defined, will survive Anthony Brennan's actions and media portrayal. Citizens of all stripes, not just cyclists per se, are outraged by (or supportive of in some cases) what the man did.
Still, to be associated with this douche angers me just about as much as being called "Lance" by a cager. I resent the implication.

[Dekonick]

To address the issue of 'defunding' or 'fining' an agency - it works. Hit a company with OSHA violations and suddenly they stop. When the general fund pays, it doesn't give cause for change. It needs to cause enough pain that leadership leans hard enough to change behavior. Start taking money, and suddenly armored vehicles aren't a priority - take that money and put it into tax cuts, whatever - or better hiring and vetting... I know that for the fire department, when we screw up, it comes out of our budget - not the general fund. Guess what the result is? Fewer accidents etc... Example - Neighboring jurisdictions, not being named, like to break windows and doors on every fire call. In Howard County, we open windows, twist and remove vinyl windows from frames so they can be re-placed... Why? Because when we trashed some homes, some homeowners sued and won - and we bought quite a few doors and windows... The end result? Better customer service, and windows and doors are only broken when it is justified. The culture used to be 'take every window' and now we are much better about preserving as much as we can. Compare how much time Howard spends on scene after a fire cleaning up and making sure residents get help... Compare that to our neighbors... Why do we do it? Believe me the average firefighter doesn't enjoy sitting on a fire ground sifting through remains looking for a wedding album - but it is done because management realizes the value and makes certain it gets accomplished. Community involvement and caring becoming a larger part of the philosophy of the culture over time... resulting in positive change. Sometimes it starts by making someone pay for broken windows... or a civil lawsuit for murdering someone

[54ny77]

gee this thread didn't go as intended...despite my first post asking to leave the politics aside. sheesh. :rolleyes:

was pointing out video of a ridiculous and overzealous adult cyclist attacking a kid. i found that to be so wildly offensive it's beyond words. ntb1001 echoed my sentiment. oh and maybe, just maybe, someone here might know of the individual and help track him down. but after flipping back to the twitter thread and seeing comments here, the guy has been found and identified. also looks like some other innocent people were mistakenly identified and their lives drug thru the mud. crazyness.

was interesting to read how strava helped find the individual, though a kinda creepy aspect where it seems anyone can spy on your whereabouts if you're out riding? is that accurate about strava? what's to prevent thieves from doing same?

too bad this devolved as it did, and wasn't limited to the more benign campy vs. sram vs. shimano polarization....

hey angry, can you kindly lock this? thx.

[AngryScientist]

gee this thread didn't go as intended...despite my first post asking to leave the politics aside. sheesh. :rolleyes:

was pointing out video of a ridiculous and overzealous adult cyclist attacking a kid. i found that to be so wildly offensive it's beyond words. ntb1001 echoed my sentiment. oh and maybe, just maybe, someone here might know of the individual and help track him down. but after flipping back to the twitter thread and seeing comments here, the guy has been found and identified. also looks like some other innocent people were mistakenly identified and their lives drug thru the mud. crazyness.

was interesting to read how strava helped find the individual, though a kinda creepy aspect where it seems anyone can spy on your whereabouts if you're out riding? is that accurate about strava? what's to prevent thieves from doing same?

too bad this devolved as it did, and wasn't limited to the more benign campy vs. sram vs. shimano polarization....

hey angry, can you kindly lock this? thx.

done and done.