Mixing Campagnolo components

[vespasianus]

Hello everyone and sorry for the naive question. I am thinking of buying disc only frame and building up the bike with 11 speed Campagnolo components. I have done MTBs for a long time but never actually built up a road bike.

The question I have is that I was going to use Campagnolo H11 shifters and brake calipers (disc). But I thought I could save some cash by using an 11 speed Centaur front derailleur with a Potenza Crankset, a Potenza medium cage rear derailleur that will allow the 32 rear cog, an Ultegra 11-32 cassette (cheaper and lighter) and a SRAM 11 speed chain. I know, some mixing and matching but it should work, right?

I originally posted this on another forum and people there mentioned this forum would be a better place to ask this question.

Thanks again and be gentle!

[Hilltopperny]

I have run a similar non disc set up before without any issues. I think it will work just fine as long as the lever throw is compatible with the rest of the stuff. The chain, cassette, derailleurs and crankset will definitely work, but I am not positive of the H-11 shifters.

[R3awak3n]

Hello everyone and sorry for the naive question. I am thinking of buying disc only frame and building up the bike with 11 speed Campagnolo components. I have done MTBs for a long time but never actually built up a road bike.

The question I have is that I was going to use Campagnolo H11 shifters and brake calipers (disc). But I thought I could save some cash by using an 11 speed Centaur front derailleur with a Potenza Crankset, a Potenza medium cage rear derailleur that will allow the 32 rear cog, an Ultegra 11-32 cassette (cheaper and lighter) and a SRAM 11 speed chain. I know, some mixing and matching but it should work, right?

I originally posted this on another forum and people there mentioned this forum would be a better place to ask this question.

Thanks again and be gentle!

yep that will all work just fine

[vespasianus]

Thanks guys. I have ridden a Tommasini Sintesi for close to 21 years. When I got it I was 150 lbs but have gotten heavier over the years! Still love that bike but wanted to try a carbon bike with modern components. Will post some pics when it is built up.

[thirdgenbird]

We want to see that Tommasini too.

[flying]

Potenza Crankset no prob because it is HO anyway
But you may find a H11 crankset here for a good price too
They put them on sale for $239 recently & maybe will again on July 4th?
https://www.levelninesports.com/campagnolo-h11-carbon-crankset

I bought one on Memorial day sale from them & it is 174 grams lighter than the Potenza crankset ;)


About the shifter/derailleur mixing
I have not tried but have read that while Potenza power shifters
(one gear up per click)
Will shift any campy derailleur...The same in reverse is not true

Meaning nothing but a Potenza shifter can shift a potenza rear derailleur well

Now you said "Campagnolo H11 shifters" so I am not positive but those are ultra shift correct?

In any case here is a pic of what I read...Note last paragraph;)

https://i.postimg.cc/nLqQBppD/Campy-shifter-compatabilty.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[oldpotatoe]

Hello everyone and sorry for the naive question. I am thinking of buying disc only frame and building up the bike with 11 speed Campagnolo components. I have done MTBs for a long time but never actually built up a road bike.

The question I have is that I was going to use Campagnolo H11 shifters and brake calipers (disc). But I thought I could save some cash by using an 11 speed Centaur front derailleur with a Potenza Crankset, a Potenza medium cage rear derailleur that will allow the 32 rear cog, an Ultegra 11-32 cassette (cheaper and lighter) and a SRAM 11 speed chain. I know, some mixing and matching but it should work, right?

I originally posted this on another forum and people there mentioned this forum would be a better place to ask this question.

Thanks again and be gentle!

Yup, it'll work fine..Right above not accurate..particularly the front ders..

[vespasianus]

We want to see that Tommasini too.



Will do. Last question, can I use a shimano 11 speed cassette on a Campagnolo free hub?

[flying]

Yup, it'll work fine..Right above not accurate..particularly the front ders..


Yes front derailleurs don't care at all but, your saying the H11 Ultrashift levers will shift a Potenza Power Shift Rear Derailleur well?

Have you tried this? Just curious as many have asked about using the Potenza rear with SR/Record/Chorus etc levers

Would be good to know

[flying]

Will do. Last question, can I use a shimano 11 speed cassette on a Campagnolo free hub?

No Shimano cassettes & Campy Cassettes have different spline pattern & have its own freehub
But many hubs/wheels offer both freehubs & you can possibly change it as it is an easy swap

[bfd]

No Shimano cassettes & Campy Cassettes have different spline pattern & have its own freehub
But many hubs/wheels offer both freehubs & you can possibly change it as it is an easy swap

Or, if you must use a Shimano 11 cassette, just mount it to any Shimano 11 hubbed wheel as all 11 speeds are compatible. For example, I’m currently using Sram etap with Campy 11 cassette mounted on a Campy rear hub. Shifts perfectly!

Good Luck!

[oldpotatoe]

Will do. Last question, can I use a shimano 11 speed cassette on a Campagnolo free hub?

No but there ARE HG/shimano compatible freehub bodies that are 'plug and play' on Campagnolo and Fulcrum wheels and hubsets. I have them...

[gfk_velo]

Yes front derailleurs don't care at all but, your saying the H11 Ultrashift levers will shift a Potenza Power Shift Rear Derailleur well?

Have you tried this? Just curious as many have asked about using the Potenza rear with SR/Record/Chorus etc levers

Would be good to know

FDs do "care".
Please check that "received truths" that might be found elsewhere on the internet are checked, before repeating ...

Post 2015 (A) type FDs need post 2015 (A) type levers to work properly with both H11 and the previous versions of the 11s crankset.

On non-H11 cranks they can be persuaded to work with non-(A) type levers but are sub-optimal and the combination is not recommended.
On H11 cranks, Pre 2011 FDs with pre 2011 levers need the "fourth" click to be used but without lever modification, the lever mechanism tends to be pulled back, out of the 4th click position when the rider hits a bump or other irregularity in the road. In cases where the lever is modified to prevent this, the extra stress, that increasing the compression on the internal clutches that is required to prevent "pull back" tends to lead to failure of the upshift lever in the composite lever versions.
If a post 2015-FD is mixed with non A-type levers and H11 cranks, the above also applies and upshift is poor and unpredictable in many cases.

Pre 2015 FDs do not shift well on H11 cranks, (A) type lever or not. The derailleur throw is not correct. Users who have tried it (alongside our own in-house testing plus testing done with Lotto-Soudal in the development stages of H11) showed problems with chain rub and, depending on frame FD fitting, occasional issues with stroke length.

If you then start to mess about with tolerances and design parameters even further by using a non-Campag cassette and / or a non-Campag chain, you will be going progressively further from any factory / team / field tested scenario and the chances of the combination working well are diminished.

On the subject of RDs - Potenza RDs do not generate sufficient reverse pull on the cable to correctly operate the UltraShift levers which require a minimum return pull of 1kg at the lever to operate the overshift mechanism. Potenza mechs generally generate (depending on cable friction) around 900g at the lever. In some cases, when everything is new and the cable runs are simple, a user can "get away with it" but it's picky to adjust and adjustment tends to drift badly with wear and tear.

There are several threads both here and on other forums dealing with these and related issues.

[flying]

FDs do "care".
Please check that "received truths" that might be found elsewhere on the internet are checked, before repeating ...

Yes to be clear....what I was saying was FD's can be made to work. Yes not optimally but work
(maybe "FD's o not care" was wrong way to say that)

but afaik Potenza RD's do not function properly al all with ultrashift levers & said so in my post (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2734309&postcount=6)

To be honest...personally I do not think all that mix & match is worth the saving a few bucks as OP plans but to each their own ;)

[vespasianus]

So this is how it all came together:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1698004414&stc=1&d=1595121061

[robt57]

What calipers did you use, and how happy are you with the lever pull for them?

Good looking sled.

[bfd]

What calipers did you use, and how happy are you with the lever pull for them?

Good looking sled.

Not sure if this is helpful, but when I built up my DS in 2017/18, I teamed a Chorus 11 drivetrain with a SR crank and get this...ready...Sram red brake calipers! Works perfectly. Of course, YMMV!

Good Luck!

[vespasianus]

What calipers did you use, and how happy are you with the lever pull for them?

Good looking sled.


Yeah, this is a flat mount frame so I just used the Campag H11 calipers. Purchased a hope RX 4 front because my original front caliper was bad and the warranty took longer than expected. Never installed it and returned it.

The H11 systems work well. Great modulation and strong stopping power when needed.

[vespasianus]

After ~1000 miles:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1698008751&stc=1&d=1600101594


I ended up replacing the RD with a mid-cage Chorus 11 speed and the crank with an H11 unit - which is incredibly light and makes the Potenza crank feel like a lead brick.

For the most part, everything works well. The only thing I notice is that once every ride, I can't shift down the cassette (larger to smaller). The button won't move. I need to shift up (smaller to larger) using the lever once to be able to shift back down.

Not sure what is going on and only happens once a ride (or every other ride).

The Campagnolo disc brakes are far and away the best disc brakes out there - or at least compared to Shimano 105 and Ultegra! The have amazing modulation and huge stopping power when you need it.

Bike is generic carbon with an Italian name. I think I like my Tommasini more.

[Mark McM]

For the most part, everything works well. The only thing I notice is that once every ride, I can't shift down the cassette (larger to smaller). The button won't move. I need to shift up (smaller to larger) using the lever once to be able to shift back down.

This is a known issue that can sometimes happen. Google for "ergo-lock" for discussions on it. This issue can happen in either direction, and is caused when the opposite lever has not fully disengaged from its toothed ratchet ring. Next time it happens, instead of shifting a gear with the downshift lever, try pulling the downshift lever outward to disengage from its ratchet ring instead.

The solution is to find out why the lever is not disengaging from its ratchet ring. This could be because the lever is caught up on the rubber hood, because the lever pivots have excess friction, or because of a worn or damaged return spring.

[vespasianus]

This is a known issue that can sometimes happen. Google for "ergo-lock" for discussions on it. This issue can happen in either direction, and is caused when the opposite lever has not fully disengaged from its toothed ratchet ring. Next time it happens, instead of shifting a gear with the downshift lever, try pulling the downshift lever outward to disengage from its ratchet ring instead.

The solution is to find out why the lever is not disengaging from its ratchet ring. This could be because the lever is caught up on the rubber hood, because the lever pivots have excess friction, or because of a worn or damaged return spring.


Thanks. These are brand new shifters so I am going to assume the are not worn. I will check the hoods as well as the cable routing and how the cables interact with the bar.

[robertbb]

On the subject of RDs - Potenza RDs do not generate sufficient reverse pull on the cable to correctly operate the UltraShift levers which require a minimum return pull of 1kg at the lever to operate the overshift mechanism. Potenza mechs generally generate (depending on cable friction) around 900g at the lever. In some cases, when everything is new and the cable runs are simple, a user can "get away with it" but it's picky to adjust and adjustment tends to drift badly with wear and tear.



Hi Graeme :)

One thing I'd love to know (curiosity more than any desire to do so), is whether the opposite will work - Potenza HO shifters and C/R/SR HO rear derailleur. Just curious as to whether this might be a nice way of getting the EPS-style droopy thumb lever on an otherwise Chorus setup. (The brake lever could be easily switched out to retain the aesthetic.)

[Mark McM]

Thanks. These are brand new shifters so I am going to assume the are not worn. I will check the hoods as well as the cable routing and how the cables interact with the bar.

Ergo-lock generally has nothing to do with the cables. If you take a look at the the shifting lever and button, you'll see that there are actually have two pivots - the main pivot is on the shifter central shaft, and then there is a secondary pivot a short distance from the main pivot. The secondary pivot is for engaging the ratchet ring, and this pivot has a weak spring so that that the ratchet ring is engaged with the first movement of the lever/button. Because this spring is weak, it doesn't take much to extra friction to keep this pivot from getting stuck, and not spring back when you release the lever/button. If the pivot doesn't spring back,, the ratchet remains engaged. And when the ratchet remains engaged, you can't shift in the opposite direction.

The most common cause of the extra friction that keeps the secondary pivot springing back is if the hood or handlebar tape is rubbing against the lever. That's where I'd check first. Make sure the lever is completely free, and nothing impairs its movement.

[vespasianus]

Ergo-lock generally has nothing to do with the cables. If you take a look at the the shifting lever and button, you'll see that there are actually have two pivots - the main pivot is on the shifter central shaft, and then there is a secondary pivot a short distance from the main pivot. The secondary pivot is for engaging the ratchet ring, and this pivot has a weak spring so that that the ratchet ring is engaged with the first movement of the lever/button. Because this spring is weak, it doesn't take much to extra friction to keep this pivot from getting stuck, and not spring back when you release the lever/button. If the pivot doesn't spring back,, the ratchet remains engaged. And when the ratchet remains engaged, you can't shift in the opposite direction.

The most common cause of the extra friction that keeps the secondary pivot springing back is if the hood or handlebar tape is rubbing against the lever. That's where I'd check first. Make sure the lever is completely free, and nothing impairs its movement.


Will do. You think it would be OK to squirt some twi-flow into the area and around the button?

[Mark McM]

Will do. You think it would be OK to squirt some twi-flow into the area and around the button?

If the upshift (larger to smaller sprocket) button won't move, the problem is that the downshift lever is still engaged. So lubricating the upshift button won't do anything. You have to find out what why the downshift lever won't disengage.

[oldpotatoe]

Hi Graeme :)

One thing I'd love to know (curiosity more than any desire to do so), is whether the opposite will work - Potenza HO shifters and C/R/SR HO rear derailleur. Just curious as to whether this might be a nice way of getting the EPS-style droopy thumb lever on an otherwise Chorus setup. (The brake lever could be easily switched out to retain the aesthetic.)

Yes,it'll work fine(Not Graeme)..But remember Potenza are PowerShift, one higher gear at a time via the thumb button, but it'll work fine and dandy.

[oldpotatoe]

Will do. You think it would be OK to squirt some twi-flow into the area and around the button?

Probably the thumb button is being fouled and not returning all the way up, as Mark has mentioned. Since they are new, the pivot of the thumb button is probably free to pivot(check by just pushing down on the thumb button a little bit, not shifting but just a wee push down, see it pivot?). When it pivots up, it disengages from the tooth part of the actual shift disc..allowing the front shifter blade to move. PLUS the thumb button 'plate' runs on a steel shift disc and some steel shims, so spray in there..

[g00se]

It's also worth checking that you're not riding with your thumbs on the buttons - sometimes you can accidentally partially engage the ratchet - thought that may be more of an issue if the levers have worn a little.

[vespasianus]

Thanks everyone. Time for me to do some work.

On a side note, I ended up getting a centaur group to go on my old Tommasini. Works really well and but one thing I noticed is that with ultra shift, you get used to being able to go up or down multiple gears at once and is hard to go back.

[Mark McM]

Thanks everyone. Time for me to do some work.

On a side note, I ended up getting a centaur group to go on my old Tommasini. Works really well and but one thing I noticed is that with ultra shift, you get used to being able to go up or down multiple gears at once and is hard to go back.

Yup. This is especially true if you came from downtube shifts, as I did many years ago before I started using Ergo shifters.

[laager]

.

[barnabyjones]

On the subject of RDs - Potenza RDs do not generate sufficient reverse pull on the cable to correctly operate the UltraShift levers which require a minimum return pull of 1kg at the lever to operate the overshift mechanism. Potenza mechs generally generate (depending on cable friction) around 900g at the lever. In some cases, when everything is new and the cable runs are simple, a user can "get away with it" but it's picky to adjust and adjustment tends to drift badly with wear and tear.

There are several threads both here and on other forums dealing with these and related issues.

In 2017, I had one of the top wrenches in LA do a build for me. It's the most I've ever paid for a build but the guy is known as a Gucci wrench. His shop is kind of like a hipster Above Category, which is to say that half his builds are $15k customs and the other half are wacky Crust type gravel rigs. In any case, it's estimated that he sees about 10x more Campagnolo than the giant Specialized dealer a few miles away. He was excited to work on my bike because it was the first time he had installed a Potenza mid cage rear derailleur; the shifters were SR 2015. I thought there could be issues but the shifting was as crisp or precise as I've ever experienced. After the build, the wrench confessed that my build had the best shifting he'd ever produced with Super Record/Record shifters...going back to 2009. As they say around here, YMMV.

[oldpotatoe]

OK, a semi related question for you:

Is there any fundamental difference between the 2010 Athena FD (FD10-AT2) and the 2011 Athena FD (FD11-AT2)?

I know the printed graphics are different. I simply need to replace a FD in an Athena 11s Ultra Shift group and FD10-AT2 is like rocking horse sheet, whereas FD11-AT2 is a dime a dozen.

Does FD11-AT2 have a weaker return spring like its corresponding RD?

No, plug and play. The 2010 FD was for 'UltraShift', the 2011 was for 'PowerShift' but the 'PowerShift' fder will work fine. Actually, with the UltraShift, 'ratcheting friction', just about ANY front der will work fine.

For right above
because it was the first time he had installed a Potenza mid cage rear derailleur; the shifters were SR 2015. I thought there could be issues but the shifting was as crisp or precise as I've ever experienced.



Along with a lot of 'what works' urban legend, particularly with Campag,
there's a lot of 'urban legend' on what 'some' say won't work but the 'test, rather than just listening to the 'company recommends', is that some of us have just tried it and gee, a lot of it actually works great..Like 10s ERGO shifters with 11s rear ders and 2015+ ders with pre 2015 shifters, and 9s ERGO with 10s rear ders, etc, etc, etc.