Improving low range on Campy 10S drivetrain

[C40_guy]

I've got a couple of Campy Record 10 cyclocross (er, I mean gravel) bikes in the stable that need lower gearing.

They're running:

Record Compact 10 50/34
Record medium cage rear
Campy Chorus 10 12-25

Looks like the rear will take a 29 tooth rear.

I don't see any availability of Campy Chorus 10S 13-29. Miche appears to be an option, as does Veloce.

Does anyone have experience with Miche for cassettes?

Other suggestions for Campy 10S gearing?

Is 13-29 too wide for mostly flat/rolling trail riding, with some hills/climbing (southern New England)?

Should I go to 12-27 or 13-27?

Thanks!

[thirdgenbird]

There is also a veloce 13-29.

Edit:
Sorry, missed that above...

I have a “ridden once” veloce I may list if my 13-26 centaur doesn’t sell. I’ve got a few cassettes I could shuffle and make work.

[C40_guy]

There is also a veloce 13-29.

Yes, I see that, thanks. Curious about the quality/durability differences between Veloce, Chorus and Miche...

[donevwil]

Functional difference between Chorus, Centaur and Veloce is indiscernible. Miche is noticeably less smooth especially into the larger cogs (I had two cassettes with large cogs that were not flat causing inconsistent shifting). 13-29 is second to last gen, Campy moved to 12-30 which is more widely available now (I think). There are even IRD Wide Range 11-32, 12-32 & 11-34 if you can find one as they sell out fast, however they do shift far better than Miche.

Your setup will easily accommodate a 12-30 and very likely even the IRD 32 or 34 with only the occasional issue with derailleur hanger length or if you have a propensity to cross chain. Long cage derailleur is better suited to the 11-34.

[thirdgenbird]

I’ve got the chorus and veloce. The chorus is way lighter and better looking, but shifting is identical.

I’ve heard the same miche feedback as above but no first hand experience.

[thwart]

Is 13-29 too wide for mostly flat/rolling trail riding, with some hills/climbing (southern New England)?


Nope. Perfect cassette for general riding around (whoops, didn't know I'd encounter a 15% hill this late in the ride... ;)) And ah, that lovely 16T cog.

The 12-30 is another option, however.

[C40_guy]

Nope. Perfect cassette for general riding around (whoops, didn't know I'd encounter a 15% hill this late in the ride... ;)) And ah, that lovely 16T cog.

The 12-30 is another option, however.

Thanks...the 12-30 exceeds the spec of the Record/Chorus medium cage by a tooth, specced for a 29 largest rear cog...

[donevwil]

Nope. Perfect cassette for general riding around (whoops, didn't know I'd encounter a 15% hill this late in the ride... ;)) And ah, that lovely 16T cog.

The 12-30 is another option, however.

I agree, I prefer the 13-29 to the 12-30 as well. I never need a 50-12, but the 16 is a real positive. On bikes on which I run a 12-30 or 32 I've moved to a 48 big ring.

[jpritchet74]

On most of my bikes (Campy 10s) I have a 13-29 cassette on the back and 34t up front. Record short cage RD too.

Works perfectly.

Search eBay for Record cassettes if you want the lighter weight. I have been accumulating some over the last few years. I even have 13-26 and 13-29 full titanium Record cassettes for those special days. I'll probably be on Campy 10s forever because of the amazing level shape - so hopefully I have enough cassettes to last me a while.

[donevwil]

On most of my bikes (Campy 10s) I have a 13-29 cassette on the back and 34t up front. Record short cage RD too.

Works perfectly.

Search eBay for Record cassettes if you want the lighter weight. I have been accumulating some over the last few years. I even have 13-26 and 13-29 full titanium Record cassettes for those special days. I'll probably be on Campy 10s forever because of the amazing level shape - so hopefully I have enough cassettes to last me a while.

I just checked all my usual sources and all are out of larger Veloce, Centaur and Chorus 10 cassettes, woe is me is this the end?

I will also likely never leave 10, I simply can't make any other lever shape work.

[C40_guy]

I've mostly been accumulating the Chorus 10 as I understand they last a bit longer than the Record all Ti...

Here's a Regina Extra Oro Gold 13-29 on ebay...wonder how that might work:

[thwart]

Thanks...the 12-30 exceeds the spec of the Record/Chorus medium cage by a tooth, specced for a 29 largest rear cog...

Works nicely though... however as donevwil mentioned above gear choice/spacing is not nearly ideal as is the 13-29.

Even on that 15%'er, one tooth isn't worth it, IMO.

[C40_guy]

I just checked all my usual sources and all are out of larger Veloce, Centaur and Chorus 10 cassettes, woe is me is this the end?

I will also likely never leave 10, I simply can't make any other lever shape work.

I'm with you!

I just ordered 2 13-29 UD Veloce cassettes via Amazon, will keep watching ebay for Chorus or Record options...need a couple more...but maybe will look for one with a 26 or 27 large cog...

[donevwil]

Amazon lists some new Veloce cassettes...

$59 is pretty darn good, a couple weeks ago Merlin was blowing out all 10 spd cassettes for 50% off, they still have a few Centaurs and Records.

Fortunately I'm also a 10 spd hoarder supreme and if one changes chains often enough the cassettes last forever.

[C40_guy]

$59 is pretty darn good, a couple weeks ago Merlin was blowing out all 10 spd cassettes for 50% off, they still have a few Centaurs and Records.

Fortunately I'm also a 10 spd hoarder supreme and if one changes chains often enough the cassettes last forever.

Merlin has nothing in the wider ranges... I'm tempted to grab a couple more from Amazon!

[ultraman6970]

U can go 32 w/o any problems if you put a wolftooth thingy, it works great. I built a triple with that wolf tooth device thingy and works better than if i had put a triple RD. Besides you can do even largest cogs than what the long or medium cage RD allows. 30x32/30 if you go triple looks pretty nice...

[thwart]

I just checked all my usual sources and all are out of larger Veloce, Centaur and Chorus 10 cassettes, woe is me is this the end?

I will also likely never leave 10, I simply can't make any other lever shape work.
I completely agree.

Just built up a bike with the gumby 11 spd... yes, it's good, but not great.

One benefit of the loose cog Veloce (or even Centaur) is that you can easily replace the smaller cogs that accumulate more wear... the 26 and 29 (at least for most of us) will last a fairly long time.

[donevwil]

U can go 32 w/o any problems if you put a wolftooth thingy, it works great. I built a triple with that wolf tooth device thingy and works better than if i had put a triple RD. Besides you can do even largest cogs than what the long or medium cage RD allows. 30x32/30 if you go triple looks pretty nice...

I know the hanger can be a variable, but I've run 11-34s on three bikes without issue, or a wolftooth, but they were doubles. I can see how a triple would benefit from one, my wife has a 46/36/26 - 12/32 and it is truly difficult to dial in the chain length & B screw perfectly, maybe I should try the wolftooth?

[Latestart]

Any logic to changing the crank to get lower on the front.

https://planetcyclery.com/campagnolo-cx-carbon-crankset-10-speed-4636-170mm-crk0110-548?gclid=EAIaIQobChMInqmv9K3m6QIVkx6tBh2DEgtuEAQY ASABEgKao_D_BwE

$112 and you can always revert later...?

[donevwil]

Any logic to changing the crank to get lower on the front.

https://planetcyclery.com/campagnolo-cx-carbon-crankset-10-speed-4636-170mm-crk0110-548?gclid=EAIaIQobChMInqmv9K3m6QIVkx6tBh2DEgtuEAQY ASABEgKao_D_BwE

$112 and you can always revert later...?

Heck yes, in this age of 11 tooth small cogs a 46 is perfect (for me).

[NHAero]

I'm in similar terrain, and running a Record 10 50-39 (TA rings) with a Veloce 13-29 and the RD is Chorus and looks like a short cage to me, but I can't tell. Just under 2-1/4" between pulley centers if that helps. Shifts totally fine. I would have chosen a crankset with a 34, but I don't like the 16T gap of 50-34, so I'm living with the 39 small ring.


I've got a couple of Campy Record 10 cyclocross (er, I mean gravel) bikes in the stable that need lower gearing.

They're running:

Record Compact 10 50/34
Record medium cage rear
Campy Chorus 10 12-25

Looks like the rear will take a 29 tooth rear.

I don't see any availability of Campy Chorus 10S 13-29. Miche appears to be an option, as does Veloce.

Does anyone have experience with Miche for cassettes?

Other suggestions for Campy 10S gearing?

Is 13-29 too wide for mostly flat/rolling trail riding, with some hills/climbing (southern New England)?

Should I go to 12-27 or 13-27?

Thanks!

[ultraman6970]

I have the set up with a chorus 10, and a 32 or a 30T cog, not a problem, actually I used the same chain i was using for a 39/53 chainring which I thought was not going to work too well...

I dont like to cross chain either and is a factor too with chains, if the rider has the bad habit to cross chain then to find the right chain lenght could be a problem, same with finding a RD that will work right, specially if its a road one.

I was surprised how well the wolf tooth set up worked, shifted way better than the long cage rd i had, to the point that i sold it and kept the short cage one.

Last iterations of shimano and the 12s campagnolo rds have like a wolftooth incorporated, bad they wont work with 10s campagnolo.

[donevwil]

I have the set up with a chorus 10, and a 32 or a 30T cog, not a problem, actually I used the same chain i was using for a 39/53 chainring which I thought was not going to work too well...

I dont like to cross chain either and is a factor too with chains, if the rider has the bad habit to cross chain then to find the right chain lenght could be a problem, same with finding a RD that will work right, specially if its a road one.

I was surprised how well the wolf tooth set up worked, shifted way better than the long cage rd i had, to the point that i sold it and kept the short cage one.

Last iterations of shimano and the 12s campagnolo rds have like a wolftooth incorporated, bad they wont work with 10s campagnolo.

Cool, gonna pick one up to try.

[C40_guy]

Any logic to changing the crank to get lower on the front.

https://planetcyclery.com/campagnolo-cx-carbon-crankset-10-speed-4636-170mm-crk0110-548?gclid=EAIaIQobChMInqmv9K3m6QIVkx6tBh2DEgtuEAQY ASABEgKao_D_BwE

$112 and you can always revert later...?

Already running 50/34 on each of the bikes, one with that cyclocross crankset.

I did check to make sure that I'm running 50/34 and not 50/36...

The only other thing I could do up front is to install my NOS 53/42/30 Triple. :)

[C40_guy]

I'm in similar terrain, and running a Record 10 50-39 (TA rings) with a Veloce 13-29 and the RD is Chorus and looks like a short cage to me, but I can't tell. Just under 2-1/4" between pulley centers if that helps. Shifts totally fine. I would have chosen a crankset with a 34, but I don't like the 16T gap of 50-34, so I'm living with the 39 small ring.

Yea, well, the Vineyard is flat, right?

:)

[dbh]

I was just scouring online for some more 13-29 Veloce cassettes, as I was getting low (and I like to keep a healthy hoard of C10 consumables on hand). Only place I found any in stock for a not outrageous price was BikeInn from Spain. With shipping, they worked out to about $45 a pop. Haven't received them yet, but will let folks know how reliable shipping was to the US once they're in hand.

[C40_guy]

Speaking of which...I tried to set up one bike (a Trek CX) with a Shimano top pull FD. it just wouldn't shift to the large ring. Perhaps it wasn't a compact derailleur, so I went back to the bottom pull Campy and routed the cabling underneath the BB. Fortunately it had both routing.

The Litespeed was set up for bottom pull, fortunately.

My Colnago Dream CX only had top routing, so i first tried adding a pulley, and then went with an aftermarket part from a german company that attaches to the FD cable attachment. It reverses the pull...and doesn't work that well...

One other CX bike, my unicorn Master CX, has a single front chainring as a result. I don't think it has any FD cable routing... The Prestige comes with a pulley already mounted, so I'll use that when I finish that build...

Oh the challenges of being a Campy fan. :)

[Ralph]

There is a Campagnolo 10 speed Centaur 12-30. (12-27 also) Usually on E bay. Last 3 cogs pinned together on aluminum carrier. This is much lighter than a loose cog Veloce.

Will work well with 34-50 and med cage RD. And smaller cogs can be replaced from Veloce loose cog cassette. (I do it all the time....sometimes start the cassette with 13 or even 14.)

BTW...short cage is 55 MM between pulley centers, med cage 74. Long cage in the 90's (don't remember exactly).

[Latestart]

I have one you can have for cheap...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49932491008_fd0c57da24_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j5n4Xo)IMG_2182 (https://flic.kr/p/2j5n4Xo) by JW (https://www.flickr.com/photos/murraysf/), on Flickr

[dbh]

There is a Campagnolo 10 speed Centaur 12-30. (12-27 also) Usually on E bay. Last 3 cogs pinned together on aluminum carrier. This is much lighter than a loose cog Veloce.

Will work well with 34-50 and med cage RD.

BTW...short cage is 55 MM between pulley centers, med cage 74. Long cage in the 90's (don't remember exactly).

Anyone know if the 12-30 cassette will work with a short cage Campy RD paired with either a 34-50 or 36-46? I know that Campy says it might exceed the capacity for the RD, but curious if folks have any real world experience with this setup?

[Ralph]

Anyone know if the 12-30 cassette will work with a short cage Campy RD paired with either a 34-50 or 36-46? I know that Campy says it might exceed the capacity for the RD, but curious if folks have any real world experience with this setup?

Sometimes it works. if you feel brave and don't let anyone else ride your bike....adjust chain so big to big won't work (IE rip the RD off LOL).....and it will shift fine. Seriously....should be fine with 10 tooth difference in front. 12-30 is 18 difference and 10 in front makes 28 difference. Within specs. That's how you figure it. Adjusting short cage so upper pulley clears biggest cog takes understanding of wrenching.

[donevwil]

Anyone know if the 12-30 cassette will work with a short cage Campy RD paired with either a 34-50 or 36-46? I know that Campy says it might exceed the capacity for the RD, but curious if folks have any real world experience with this setup?

Yes it will just be careful with chain length and avoid big-big to make life easier.

[CSKeller]

I am running a Miche 12-29 cassette on my Gangl TSX bike with a Record 10 medium cage derailleur. It is smooth and quiet with accurate shifting.

It appears some others don't have the same experience with Miche. I like em, they were pretty inexpensive and work well. I haven't tried IRD but may check them out next time I need a 10spd cassette. IRD is a lot more expensive though.

[cgolvin]

Already running 50/34 on each of the bikes, one with that cyclocross crankset.

I did check to make sure that I'm running 50/34 and not 50/36...

The only other thing I could do up front is to install my NOS 30-40-50 Triple. :)

You could try a 48/32. I'm running a Praxis with my SR 11 gruppo and it is excellent. Not as cost effective across multiple bikes as the cassette change, but still an option.

[Ralph]

I run my travel bike with a Campy 10's triple 30-42-52 (took 52 from a 42-52 double...didn't want the 53 it came with), and 12-30 rear. Run the chain a little slack on purpose (2 smaller cogs hang slack and don't work with small front ring....wouldn't use that combo anyway), and med cage RD. it works great! Big to big will shift....if you accidently did that.

[dbh]

Sometimes it works. if you feel brave and don't let anyone else ride your bike....adjust chain so big to big won't work (IE rip the RD off LOL).....and it will shift fine. Seriously....should be fine with 10 tooth difference in front. 12-30 is 18 difference and 10 in front makes 28 difference. Within specs. That's how you figure it. Adjusting short cage so upper pulley clears biggest cog takes understanding of wrenching.

Thanks for this. I just restocked on 13-29 Veloce cassettes, so question will likely remain hypothetical. FWIW, I've been using these cassettes with short cage RDs and both 53-39 and 36-46 up front and never had issues. Going back to the OPs original question about 13-29 gearing for southern New England, I find it's a great cassette. On my standard crank, it's great for the short rollers around Boston where I can stay in my big ring. Longer climbs I drop into the 39, and I don't have issues. For larger and longer mountain climbs up in VT, I bring the bike with the cross rings in the front.

[C40_guy]

You could try a 48/32. I'm running a Praxis with my SR 11 gruppo and it is excellent. Not as cost effective across multiple bikes as the cassette change, but still an option.

I've got more wheelsets than bikes...so, yea, cassette tweaking is somewhat more cost effective. :)

Y'all just inspired me...I ordered two more 13-29 Veloce cassettes from Amazon. That will cover all of my multi-speed 'cross bikes for a while...

Unless, of course, I convert the Hot Tubes back from SS/Fixie flip flop to geared. :)

[donevwil]

Sometimes it works. if you feel brave and don't let anyone else ride your bike....adjust chain so big to big won't work (IE rip the RD off LOL).....and it will shift fine. Seriously....should be fine with 10 tooth difference in front. 12-30 is 18 difference and 10 in front makes 28 difference. Within specs. That's how you figure it. Adjusting short cage so upper pulley clears biggest cog takes understanding of wrenching.

I tried that once on my wife's bike. Thought to myself she'll never go big-big, never, but will definitely go small-small. Guess what? Bad husband, very bad husband. Bike was fine, wife was mad.