Completely naked...

[weisan]

http://alicehui.com/bike/Taylor/img/taylor8.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/AUS/mini-P1120200.JPG

This is my one and only custom frame built by Paul Taylor in June of 2010.

It was designed to accommodate up to 35mm tires and incorporated a ritchey breakaway coupling invented by Tom Ritchey for ease of breaking down and packing for travel. Since then, it has flown to D2R2 twice (Franklin County, Deerfield Massachusetts), Oakland CA, Singapore, and Australia. It was supposed to make its first appearance in Europe to France this coming September but at this point we are not 100% sure if it will happen.

http://alicehui.com/pics/nc/img/2.jpg

http://alicehui.com/pics/katy/img/57.jpg

http://alicehui.com/pics/nc/img/81.jpg

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697866312&stc=1&d=1377560819

For six years when I was living abroad and out of Texas, it has served as my only dedicated bike. I have used it primarily as a regular road bike but in a few occasions, it's been called upon to perform gravel and bikepacking duties and it did fine.

It has gone through one frame repair (a crack developed in the bottom bracket) and one repaint and is about to go through another one in a day or two. This time around, I am going with powder coat to ensure maximum durability. It got stripped earlier today and my painter allowed me to bring it home for the night. The brazing is nowhere near Dave Kirk's but seldom do we get to see our frame in its naked form up close, so I thought I would share some pictures here, the good and the bad, everything.

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5739.jpg

[weisan]

Front triangle

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5726.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5720.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5750.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5751.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5721.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5725.jpg

Fork

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5717.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5718.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5742.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5743.jpg

[weisan]

Rear triangle

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5727.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5728.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5733.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5730.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5738.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5729.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5731.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5735.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5736.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5737.jpg

[joosttx]

Better your frame than you being naked :)

Really neat to see frames like that. Even cooler when the frame has a history.

[cinema]

looks great! a Taylor that was actually delivered, and still on the road, is a miracle

[unterhausen]

I was hoping you had a better picture of the top tube/head tube fillet on the rider's right side to see what is going on with that black line on there.

[dannymd]

Looks really great!

[Blue Jays]

Cool detailed pics! Excellent close-up camera work.

[weisan]

I was hoping you had a better picture of the top tube/head tube fillet on the rider's right side to see what is going on with that black line on there.

Thank you for making that request. I have a suspicion that there might be a crack there. I have used the "oil sip" test and so far, no oil was found sipping on to the inside of the headtube. At this point, I am not too worried about the frame structural integrity, I think it will hold. Any observations or suggestions are welcome.

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5750.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_5751.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

I was hoping you had a better picture of the top tube/head tube fillet on the rider's right side to see what is going on with that black line on there.

Agree, that sure looks like a crack to me. As for 'oil seep' thing..if the miter is a good one and/or the crank doesn't go all the way thru, oil won't get to the inside..even if it did, t would be inside the top tube, not the head tube. The 'line' is next to the top tube.
It has gone through one frame repair (a crack developed in the bottom bracket)
I am not too worried about the frame structural integrity, I think it will hold

hmmm..BIG YMMV may vary...

[fmradio516]

if the frames paint is already stripped, its definitely worth bringing to a framebuilder to get a professional opinion/a fix.

[Hawker]

Thanks for the inside look Weisan and great photos! Trust this will come out the other end being exactly what you want.

Was this supposed to be a TDF trip this summer? If so, sorry my friend. But those guys would probably be clogging up the roads you are planning to ride anyway.

[velomateo]

I would check that seat clamp lug, the one with the Ritchey logo filled in, that looks cracked.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200603/094e124cda234adbd4a47294f7850b00.jpg

[coreyaugustus]

Thanks for sharing these. You're right; we rarely get to see what's going on under the paint on most of our bikes. It's interesting to see, for sure.

I just built my first frame last week and that was an eye-opening experience into just how much work there is to get it together. Naturally, I took quite a few pics of the raw frame just to remind myself how good/bad my first effort was in comparison to future ones.

Side note: I used the same downtube cable stops on the headtube much like yours. Those little SOBs are a trick to get positioned while brazing.

[old_fat_and_slow]

Anybody have any clues about all the discoloration in the braze at the seat tube/BB shell/chain stay junctions? That sure doesn't look good. Is that some kind of impurities in the braze material that was used?

Thanks for posting the images. Very interesting.

[unterhausen]

I think I would like to see it sandblasted so all the discoloration is gone.

[smontanaro]

Thanks for sharing. I'm curious why powdercoating instead of a good wet paint?

[wernerherzogsid]

To strip an object to its basest level and view it entirely unadorned is circumstance few get to experience. May it deliver new perspective and you view it with new eyes after these years.

If you are accepting feedback for colors, I am partial to purple.

[AngryScientist]

If you are accepting feedback for colors, I am partial to purple.

yea, we know you do :banana:

[weisan]

Back to the painter, ready to proceed. It will be done in a couple of weeks.

[NHAero]

I had pix of both my Nagasawa and Bob Jackson sent when they were stripped. Both very clean and clearly built by craftsmen.

[jpritchet74]

Just........ wow..........

[thwart]

The Billato bros. do nice work as well...

[Tandem Rider]

A view from the field. Lets keep it in perspective, 1 hp = 754 watts. How many folks on here can put out 745w consistently. It takes a lot of hp to break stuff. Speaking from experience, steel breaks slowly, I would ride the snot out of it and just watch for breaks. Nice frame!!

[Louis]

Weisan, a "dye penetrant" test for a crack isn't whether the liquid goes all the way through the material and appears on the other side. If capillary action causes the liquid to penetrate on one side that means you have a crack. It just isn't a through-crack (yet). See link below for details.

If any of the joints (or any of a number of other places on that frame) shows the beginnings of a crack by visual or thumbnail inspection, or by dye penetrant testing, there's no way in the world that I would simply have it painted and continue to ride it. That's a waste of time and money and you're putting yourself at risk. (Although odds are, you probably wouldn't have an instantaneous catastrophic failure, but there's no sense in taking the risk.)

If what looks like cracks from here are indeed cracks you should either have it repaired by a professional or retire it. To paper over the problems and ride it is foolish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dye_penetrant_inspection

[weisan]

This thread is not about the "crack", let's not fixate on that. I am well aware about the general sentiment of this community.

I am both the jury and the executioner. It's my bike. I have made up my mind. No further discussion needed about the crack.

[bfd]

This thread is not about the "crack", let's not fixate on that. I am well aware about the general sentiment of this community.

I am both the jury and the executioner. It's my bike. I have made up my mind. No further discussion needed about the crack.

Thanks. I had a similar frame built by the same guy. The main difference is my frameset was a “cross” version, had canti brakes bosses. I had a similar “crack” in the bb shell that needed repairing. Unfortunately, this happened before I knew the guy was a rip off artist. My LBS had done tons of stuff with him, so after talking to this guy, I sent him my frame to be repaired. Never saw it again...lesson, guy does decent work, but judging from our experience, can’t weld a bb shell properly. I’m just glad to know he is now out of the bike building business...

[Louis]

This thread is not about the "crack", let's not fixate on that. I am well aware about the general sentiment of this community.

I am both the jury and the executioner. It's my bike. I have made up my mind. No further discussion needed about the crack.

Weisan, I won't say anything more about the c____ or not c_____, but just for the record, being the thread starter and/or the owner of the frame doesn't give you any special privilege to impose rules on what others may say about a perfectly legitimate subject of conversation, especially when the intent isn't malicious or in any way hurtful, and made purely to try to help.

You post an image of a bare frame, expect people to discuss what's shown in the images. If you don't want them to discuss it, then don't post the images. If you want a forum where you make all the rules, then by all means, start your own.

[gasman]

This thread is not about the "crack", let's not fixate on that. I am well aware about the general sentiment of this community.

I am both the jury and the executioner. It's my bike. I have made up my mind. No further discussion needed about the crack.

Wei San - we just don’t want to see you naked and your ....:butt:m

Best of luck, that’s a well loved bike.

[weisan]

Got it! Thank you.

[oldpotatoe]

weisan, i won't say anything more about the c____ or not c_____, but just for the record, being the thread starter and/or the owner of the frame doesn't give you any special privilege to impose rules on what others may say about a perfectly legitimate subject of conversation, especially when the intent isn't malicious or in any way hurtful, and made purely to try to help.

you post an image of a bare frame, expect people to discuss what's shown in the images. if you don't want them to discuss it, then don't post the images. if you want a forum where you make all the rules, then by all means, start your own.

+1..:banana:

[FlashUNC]

Streisand Effect. Now all I can see in those photos are what look like cracks.

[Blown Reek]

Streisand Effect. Now all I can see in those photos are what look like cracks.

Don't forget to notice the flux that wasn't removed. I'm sure all the paint that was applied hid all of the imperfections nicely. However, once the frame was stripped, you can see the "workmanship" in all it's glory. If you do the Pepsi Challenge between the Taylor and the Nagasawa, or the Bob Jackson or the LeMond, there's a notable difference.

But nothing another paint job can't cover! Who needs brass filler when there's body filler!

And how could one not fixate on a crack? This place is rife with custom frame aficionados, and with that comes some semblance of knowing "how things should be". Kind of sucks that it's the OP's "one and only custom frame". Oof.

Even the late, great Whitney Houston said crack is wack.

[weisan]

Hahaha....you guys crack me up. I am glad I don't listen to y'all....all the time. :D

[unterhausen]

I think that's a bit overly critical of what we see in these pictures. There is still some of the paint on the frame from the most recent paint job. There is no evidence at all of any flux. I'm not sure what the discoloration on the brass is, but it doesn't seem too surprising to me that it's there. Seeing carbon from the bb repair seems unusual, but it isn't malpractice. I am starting to wonder if the primer was black, which is weird, but there is a lot of black on the frame. I think people are letting their bias against the builder control their vision. It looks like a competently made frame to me. The only reason I mentioned the head tube is because now is the time to fix it before it's coated again.

[Blown Reek]

There is no evidence at all of any flux.

Really? You don't see that glazed, clear-ish glass-like area around the chain stay bridge? That's what flux looks like after it's been cooked.

[unterhausen]

Really? You don't see that glazed, clear-ish glass-like area around the chain stay bridge? That's what flux looks like after it's been cooked.

that's obviously paint. Have you ever built a frame? I have built over 1000 and know what flux looks like.

I assume the frame will be media blasted before it is coated because there are a lot of little spots that are still painted.

[rallizes]

that's obviously paint. Have you ever built a frame? I have built over 1000 and know what flux looks like.

I assume the frame will be media blasted before it is coated because there are a lot of little spots that are still painted.

cool

where can we see some examples of your work?

[Blown Reek]

that's obviously paint. Have you ever built a frame? I have built over 1000 and know what flux looks like.

You're right. It must be the clear paint that goes on prior to primer that enables you see the grain of the metal beneath. And I've built over 1001 frames, so I'm more of an expert.

[unterhausen]

This frame has been painted twice and has been ridden quite a bit. It's hard to believe that it still has flux on it. Flux wouldn't survive under paint, so there would be a lot of rust.

[Monsieur Toast]

So should he throw the frame out or not? I'm getting confused.

[e-RICHIE]

It's not flux (near or on the chain stay bridge).
It's the last essence of paint scale that didn't make it off in the strip tank.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool::cool:;)
;):cool::cool:
:rolleyes::rolleyes:;)

[benb]

Nice to see someone develop a history & story with a particular bike.

It seems like once you do that the bike takes on a life of it's own and is worth way more than how many grams it weighs or how stiff it is in.

Somewhat it's like the bike isn't that special to me until something ridiculous has been ridden on it.

I would consider concerns about cracks as more people just caring about you.. Steel might fail pretty safely but no one here wants to see you (or anyone) go down due to a failure.

[ernmony]

This must be a real special bike to go through two repaints and crack.

[NHAero]

Just got my Bob Jackson back from its third repaint in the 48 years I've owned it. A bike can get special through the memory miles you had on it. In my case, it doesn't even fit me - the way we size frames now makes so much more sense, it has a 573mm TT and 540mm is my sweet spot. I got it back Friday, built it up Saturday, and have ridden it 5 days in a row. It's an old friend!

This must be a real special bike to go through two repaints and crack.

[weisan]

Like painting the walls before you sell the house, get the most bang for your buck.

Not sure if the bike is special...but I definitely have no intention of selling it to anyone.

The reason I want to repaint...just for fun, I am bored, try something new.

First guy came by..."Hey look, there's a crack..."

Second guy came by...."Hey everybody! Did you see the crack?"

.....

Nth guy came by...."Whoa...look at that, big discovery! I think I saw a pussy cat...er...I mean, a crack."

Yawn....anyone got anything interesting or ground-breaking to say...that adds a bit of value...move the needle forward a little bit...circulate the air in the room maybe....Yawn.....

[ColonelJLloyd]

Yawn....anyone got anything interesting or ground-breaking to say...that adds a bit of value...move the needle forward a little bit...circulate the air in the room maybe....Yawn.....

Touchy touchy.

Are the chain stays S3 tubing?

Have you ever tried a carbon fork on this? Whisky Road+ sounds fun.

[weisan]

Not sure. According to the framebuilder, it's a combination of Columbus Spirit and Life tubing.

Yes, in my moment of weakness, I did tried on a carbon fork, it took off some grams but I am a @frame that comes with matching fork" kinda guy, so I put it back together after one or two rides, experiment over.

[weisan]

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6132.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6133.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6139.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6137.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6135.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6142.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6138.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6134.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6141.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6143.jpg

.

[Hawker]

Really sweet, thanks for posting. Now it goes to paint?

[weisan]

Thanks Hawker pal. Yup, it will be painted next week. I just locked down on the color with my painter an hour ago.

[unterhausen]

Looks a lot better sandblasted. Sorry if I derailed your thread, no intention of doing that.

[TheseGoTo11]

Very cool pics. Thanks for taking the time to post all that up and share!

[weisan]

Unter pal, not at all, you are very kind.

You are welcome, 15 speed pal.

[steveoz]

That is so cool! Is there a difference in the ride qualities of a filet brazed frame vs lugs? What color did you pick?

[weisan]

Nope, no difference.

You will see what I ended up with, I will post it here when it's done.

[Elefantino]

When done, that bike needs to come to North Carolina! With both wheels :D

[weisan]

:banana:When done, that bike needs to come to North Carolina! With both wheels :D
You got it!
:banana:

[bthomas515]

This looks incredible. Can’t wait to see pics of it built up

[happycampyer]

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6137.jpg

.that's obviously paint. Have you ever built a frame? I have built over 1000 and know what flux looks like.

I assume the frame will be media blasted before it is coated because there are a lot of little spots that are still painted.

You're right. It must be the clear paint that goes on prior to primer that enables you see the grain of the metal beneath. And I've built over 1001 frames, so I'm more of an expert.

It's not flux (near or on the chain stay bridge).
It's the last essence of paint scale that didn't make it off in the strip tank.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool::cool:;)
;):cool::cool:
:rolleyes::rolleyes:;)I'll go with, it was paint.

[weisan]

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6267.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/seatstay.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/chainstay1.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/chainstay2.jpg

https://vimeo.com/431579740

https://vimeo.com/431579687

[Hawker]

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6267.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/seatstay.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/chainstay1.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/chainstay2.jpg

https://vimeo.com/431579740

https://vimeo.com/431579687

Hmm, what pray tell are we seeing here?

[johnniecakes]

Weisan; Thanks for this post and seeing it through to this point. Really appreciate the sand blasted pics so we all see what is really there or not there. Looking forward to the finished powder coat. Mine came out as good as most liquid paint jobs

[smontanaro]

Hmm, what pray tell are we seeing here?

Dimpling pliers and the result of using them? Just a guess...

[weisan]

Before:35mm

Now: 40mm

:banana:

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6273.jpg

[weisan]

Disclaimer: Don't try this at home...especially on your carbon bikes. :eek:

:p

[David Kirk]

Disclaimer: Don't try this at home...especially on your carbon bikes. :eek:

:p


I'd keep a close in on those seat stays.....the denting process distorted them pretty good....even on the outside. It wouldn't be shocking to see them fail there over time.

dave

[weisan]

I'd keep a close in on those seat stays.....the denting process distorted them pretty good....even on the outside. It wouldn't be shocking to see them fail there over time.

dave

I will. Thanks Dave pal for the fair warning.

[Gsinill]

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/seatstay.jpg





:eek: :eek: :eek:

[jtbadge]

Dodged a bullet with those "cracks" but now this?

[Dino Suegiù]

http://alicehui.com/bike/naked/IMG_6267.jpg

To each one's own* teeth and/or tailbone of course, but, really...J...:eek:...F...:eek:...C...:eek:....


*Other people's teeth and/or tailbones, when that frame collapses in the middle of the paceline, maybe a different discussion.

[FlashUNC]

What's compromising not one but two tubes all for the sake of an extra 5mm of tire clearance.

[Dino Suegiù]

What's compromising not one but two tubes all for the sake of an extra 5mm of tire clearance.
Ad copy reads:
"Equally unsafe whether cornering left or right!!!"

[NHAero]

Weisan, you are the very model of a modern major-empiricist (with apologies to Gilbert and Sullivan)!

[weisan]

Aero pal, you are so polite....:p

[Hawker]

I just want to point out that I figured out what that tool was before anyone mentioned it. But I've never of Dimpling Pliers and certainly don't own a pair...but I think I'd like to. Now what to do with them?

Good luck Weisan, can't wait to see how this project turns out.

[weisan]

http://www.alicehui.com/bike/Paint/IMG_6765.jpg

And so, the new chapter begins...let's hope the next decade is just as good, if not better than the last.

[AngryScientist]

Looks good! You settled on a nice, simple color scheme. It works nicely! Personally I would have gone with the opposite bottle cage set up for the contrast with the black on white and white on black:)

May you both enjoy many more happy miles.

[DHallerman]

Fascinating!

I just read this thread for the first time, and I'm fascinated because I just bought a (used) Paul Taylor frame that was delivered here a couple of days ago. The photo here is from the eBay seller; but I bought only the frame, no fork or other parts. According to the seller, the previous owner had the frame powder coated that bright green you see (a color I would likely never choose for a repaint, but somehow is cool for me right now).

Perhaps my favorite steel bike in the Lapin Collection is the Burley Fox Hollow, built from True Temper OX Platinum; perhaps it's my favorite because of its lively feel. So this Taylor frame appealed because it's made from the even lighter True Temper S3 tubing. In fact, of the 25 or so bike frames I have weighed over the years, this frame is by far the lightest steel frame I've owned, coming in at only 3.4 lbs.

Anyway, before buying this frame, I read all I could find about Paul Taylor and his major mishigas with taking money and ghosting everyone. But people were also saying that when he DID work, the work was excellent. Hence, my taking the chance with this frame.

A long shot: does anyone recognize this frame, know anything of its history?

Oh yes, I'll try this green Taylor with either a Kestrel fork or an Alpha Q fork. I lean toward the former for looks, and I lean toward the latter for birthright (if you didn't know, Alpha Q was from True Temper). Any thoughts?

Weisan, thanks for all the photos. Fascinating!

Dave, who names all of his bicycles either directly by color such as Little Red or indirectly such as Happy and this one might be named Sailor

http://www.inplaceredesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/paul-taylor-road-custom-01a.jpg

[weisan]

Haller pal, you are welcome! Enjoy your Taylor, don't worry too much about the man or what's on the downtube, a good bike is one that is used to the maximum effect.

Angry pal, yes, I changed my mind last minute. My painter, oh God bless his heart, has to deal with my indecisiveness. I must have said to him "Yes Chris, this is my final decision" like 5 times before I finally settled on this one. And the reason I picked it is because I envisioned this bike to be a journeyman bike in the next decade. Now that I have fixed the only "flaw" I personally think it has, by creating the tire clearance for a 40mm gravel tire, it's now "perfect" and can pretty much do anything or go anywhere...and it will!

I swapped out the bottle cages according to your recommendation to see what it looks like...

http://alicehui.com/bike/Paint/IMG_6796.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/Paint/IMG_6797.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/Paint/IMG_6756.jpg

[RWL2222]

The paint job and whole setup looks great. Lots of beautiful lines in there--the interactions between seat tube/post/clamp and the top tube, and the white stem looks great. Those looks will last a long long time.:hello:

[steveoz]

Very Nice paint job!

[weisan]

Thank you my friends...

[8aaron8]

Looks great, very simple/elegant. Is that an Odyssey BMX sticker on the top tube?

[weisan]

Looks great, very simple/elegant. Is that an Odyssey BMX sticker on the top tube?

Thanks aaron pal. Er...no...I stole it somewhere...but not from BMX. :eek: :p

[m_moses]

Looks great! I like your color choices.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[colker]

It would look very cool if you go w/ all black wheels and headset/spacers. The front triangle would look like floating unsupported. It would be a very cool effect.

[weisan]

Looks great! I like your color choices.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks Mick pal, without your help, it won't be possible, so thank you!
Your PM is full, I tried to send you pictures before I post here but couldn't.

[nobuseri]

Paint scheme/job looks great. The bottle cages look great in either configuration. Ride it in good health!

[weisan]

Just when you thought it can't get any better...it proves you wrong!

http://alicehui.com/bike/Paint/IMG_6821.jpg

[AngryScientist]

excellent!

not to toot my own horn, but that bottle cage configuration really ties the room together :hello:

looks good weisan. hope to ride with you and have an odyssey soon.