Need an affordable used commuter car- what should I get?

[doomridesout]

My family needs to bite the bullet and get a second car, mostly for me to commute on days I can't ride and to travel for work. It won't need to be a gear-hauler or adventuremobile, although those things are a bonus. Being able to run two child seats in the back is a bonus too. We're looking in the $8000-9000 ballpark (in the California used car market). What should I get? I'm not savvy with car mechanics, so don't tell me to find a deal that just needs a little DIY work in the garage.

I just saw Hertz filed for bankruptcy protection and they have some cheap vehicles... but they're the budget-line Nissan Versa and Sentra, which have a spotty reputation for reliability and some aspects are not well reviewed. I'd prefer to get a Toyota or Honda to serve this need instead, but they hold value much better than the Nissans and are out of our price range in comparable mileages. Is a higher mileage Honda Civic a better buy than a lower mileage Nissan or Hyundai?

Thoughts from the peanut gallery?

[mtechnica]

You can get a decent Prius for that much money, you pretty much can’t go wrong.

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/d/moreno-valley-2007-toyota-prius/7129121961.html

Something like this is what I’d buy.

[cinema]

toyota: prius or yaris. their only commuters still made in japan. Do not buy third gen priuses. they have an EGR problem that eventually cooks the engine. 2nd gen will need a new battery shortly if it hasn't been replaced. fourth gen is an incredible car. i've had many priuses if you can't tell. the batteries last about ten years. time, not use, kills them. the matrix is also an excellent bombproof vehicle especially the standard transmission one. pre '19 rav 4s have extremely reliable 4cylinder with 6speed auto that make it to 200k no sweat, but they are not made in japan.

kia and hyundai has transferable 100k mile powertrain warranties. unbeatable. sonata, elantra, soul, all great commuter vehicles with excellent warranties. mechanic friend drives a soul because the last thing he wants to do is work on his own car (aside from him owning like ten vintage jaguars)

honda is going turbo/direct injection these days. recommend not buying.

[StanleySteamer]

Camry, Corolla or Matrix. Watch Scotty Kilmer on YouTube for his used car advice. I have a 2004 Camry only spend money on oil changes and one brake job. RAV4s are also awesome.

[doomridesout]

It might not be the most gas-efficient, but there's a 2012 Subaru Impreza hatchback with 77k miles in my range. Wondering if that's a good deal if I can leverage the dealer on the price.

[Leyczo]

Look at the honda fit.

[doomridesout]

I might add I don't think compact is going to work because the car seat capability is important. I want to be able to go pick up kids if necessary.

[Pinned]

A Toyota or Honda with an inline 4 is the way to go. A Prius is a good option, though be careful of mileage in terms of battery maintenance. Camry, Civic, Accord are all stellar commuter options in terms of ease of ownership.

Skip Subarus as they are somehow even more rattly and underpowered than their counterparts from other manufacturers. Around 100k the Subaru will need timing belt, water pump, radiator, etc replaced and you can count on a $1k repair bill to do all of this properly. Plus there is little benefit to the AWD if you're in a dry place.

[Louis]

It might not be the most gas-efficient, but there's a 2012 Subaru Impreza hatchback with 77k miles in my range. Wondering if that's a good deal if I can leverage the dealer on the price.

I have a '14 Impreza with a bit over 130k miles on it and in general it's been a very good car. If I had to do it all over again I'd probably have gotten the turbo (WRX), but that isn't really relevant to your decision. About 2/3 of my driving is highway commuting during low-traffic hours. During the summer I get over 35 mpg, and during the winter ~33 mpg.

Look at the honda fit.

My sister has an ~2010 Fit and she loves it. She's driven it all over Maine and Massachusetts and hasn't had any significant problems at all.

[mtechnica]

It might not be the most gas-efficient, but there's a 2012 Subaru Impreza hatchback with 77k miles in my range. Wondering if that's a good deal if I can leverage the dealer on the price.

It’s alright but Subaru’s don’t seem especially reliable compared to Toyotas.

[cinema]

I might add I don't think compact is going to work because the car seat capability is important. I want to be able to go pick up kids if necessary.

some highlanders in your price range have a great v6 and are extremely reliable. downside is they have a timing belt. the later rav 4s moved back to a timing chain, like our 2017 rav4.

[Louis]

It’s alright but Subaru’s don’t seem especially reliable compared to Toyotas.

My Impreza hasn't been as reliable as my Acura Integra (greatest car ever built) but that's setting the bar pretty high. And, comparing on an equivalent basis, (since the Acura was a '97 and the Subie is a '14) the Impreza was less expensive.

Some people bad-mouth Subarus. I'm willing to admit that they aren't top-notch like Hondas or Toyotas, but for what you get at the price you pay they're IMO certainly good enough.

[p nut]

Another vote for a Honda Fit. About 10 years ago, I bought one second hand for around $8k. Had 70k miles on it. 2007, 5-sp sport. Quite zippy for a 1.5L. Also fit 3 bikes in the back and could’ve fit a 4th. (Front wheels off). Magic seats allow very tall items to fit as well. I’ve fit a 7-foot table with 8 chairs, something like 900 bottled waters, various lumber. It’s like a mini-minivan. You just keep cramming stuff in and it....fits. Along with my two kids. Such a useful car.
I’d recommend it over any other subcompact.

[Louis]

I might add I don't think compact is going to work because the car seat capability is important. I want to be able to go pick up kids if necessary.

Don't dismiss the Fit without checking one out in person. I've been in my sister's plenty of times, but haven't really loaded one up in person, but as p nut suggests above, they're legendary for their ability to hold a lot more stuff than you'd think based purely on exterior looks.

[zzy]

+1 on the Fit.

[many_styles]

Echoing everyone else’s recs on the Honda Fit. If you drive a manual, it’s the more zippy version. Fits 4 comfortably, super utilitarian; magic seats can fold down completely flat to store A LOT of things, fold the seat bottoms up, and you could actually fit a bike standing up, perpendicular to the car.

I bought a 2010 with around 70k, for about $8-9k. You get Honda reliability!

Cheers,
Alex


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[Llewellyn]

Hard to go past a Corolla. They're like the Energiser Bunny - they just keep going and going.

[Ozz]

2nd Gen Prius has an amazing amount of space in small package...plenty of room in backseat for strapping in kids, and cargo area is great.

For around-town driving it is great...don't love it on the freeway cuz so small.

We have a 2008, and it is relegated to the "kids" car....only gas and oil changes for 12+ years / 80,000 miles. Battery seems just fine....we get 35 mpg without trying too hard.

[oldpotatoe]

You can get a decent Prius for that much money, you pretty much can’t go wrong.

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/d/moreno-valley-2007-toyota-prius/7129121961.html

Something like this is what I’d buy.

Unless you need a new battery..:eek:

[eddief]

why not?

[NHAero]

Still driving my 2008 Fit bought 10-1/2 years ago used. +100 on what p nut wrote. So wished that they turned one into a plug-in hybrid, but they've gone the other direction with their small cars.

Another vote for a Honda Fit. About 10 years ago, I bought one second hand for around $8k. Had 70k miles on it. 2007, 5-sp sport. Quite zippy for a 1.5L. Also fit 3 bikes in the back and could’ve fit a 4th. (Front wheels off). Magic seats allow very tall items to fit as well. I’ve fit a 7-foot table with 8 chairs, something like 900 bottled waters, various lumber. It’s like a mini-minivan. You just keep cramming stuff in and it....fits. Along with my two kids. Such a useful car.
I’d recommend it over any other subcompact.

[merlinmurph]

the batteries last about ten years. time, not use, kills them.

Is that true? I always heard that it was the number of charging cycles a battery went thru that determined its life. Or maybe in the case of the Prius, the battery gets old before it hits its charging cycle life. Just curious.

[biker72]

Another vote for the Honda Fit. My daughter now has my old 2013 Fit. Surprisingly large interior with the back seats folded down. Just tires, battery, and oil changes so far.

[mcfarton]

I have a Honda Element with 250000 miles on it and love it. You can find one in your price range but it will have some mileage. I can put my two kids in it no problem. If I take out the kids seats I can put two road bikes in with the wheels on without them touching each other. It’s the best car ever because I don’t care what happens to it [emoji38]


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[NHAero]

I have to on the one hand trust Cinema's own experience, and consider it along with the fact that being in the environmental design field I have known scores of Prius owners over the past 20 years and not one that I'm aware of has ever had to replace a battery.

Is that true? I always heard that it was the number of charging cycles a battery went thru that determined its life. Or maybe in the case of the Prius, the battery gets old before it hits its charging cycle life. Just curious.

[hokoman]

I have a Fit, it's a 2012 that just tipped 30k miles (12k of those miles in the last 2 years). Gets 30 mpg with a roof rack/basket. The 'magic seats' makes carrying things easy, and with the seats down, the back is really big. I can carry A LOT of junk with mine.

The only complaint about the car is that the headlights completely suck, but I spent $800 and ordered some custom Morimoto LED projectors. Totally worth it in my opinion.

[cinema]

actually don't know much at all about battery manufacturing for priuses, other than my own experience.i have had 3 gen 2 priuses. the first one was totaled when it was 11 years old. it had 150k on it and never needed its battery replaced, but it was losing some mpgs by the time i was hit.

second one (2005) needed battery replacement after 11 years or so. it only had 80-90k miles on it. toyota covered that under warranty. i bought the car after it had the warranty repair done years ago and gave it to my sister, who is still driving it with 150k miles on it.

third one i bought after someone totaled mine. it was 12 years old and had 190k miles on it and the battery died. it was replaced by the seller right before i got it. i'm driving it now and we're at around 220k.

so on average, regardless of mileage, these batteries seem to die around 10 years or so after being manufactured. bumming around priuschat for a couple years, it seems to me that's the consensus there as well. I do all the maintenance which is very easy on these vehicles. main things tend to be the cvt water pump (yes there are two water pump) which last about 100k miles if you're lucky and the hybrid battery every 10 years. My little 1.5L girl is getting a bit tired at 220k but it's to be expected. I've driven it from los angeles to washington DC and back.

fyi the gen2 prius has more interior volume than all later versions as well as more room than the honda fit. i can sleep with the seats down inside, and fit two bikes in there if i want to. a 54cm road bike will usually fit with the wheel on if you're good at tetris and a 29+ will fit on top of it with the front wheel removed.

[jimcav]

the prius battery is supposed to be good for 10yrs/150k
https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31274277/prius-battery-life/

[Leyczo]

Another vote for a Honda Fit. About 10 years ago, I bought one second hand for around $8k. Had 70k miles on it. 2007, 5-sp sport. Quite zippy for a 1.5L. Also fit 3 bikes in the back and could’ve fit a 4th. (Front wheels off). Magic seats allow very tall items to fit as well. I’ve fit a 7-foot table with 8 chairs, something like 900 bottled waters, various lumber. It’s like a mini-minivan. You just keep cramming stuff in and it....fits. Along with my two kids. Such a useful car.
I’d recommend it over any other subcompact.

Yep, I also had a 2007 fit sport with a five speed. It is bigger on the inside than most cars I have been in. I am 6'4" and fit in the back seats just fine. With the seats folded down the cargo capacity is amazing. If people made good decisions almost all of us would drive honda fits.

[Ken Robb]

How much do you value comfort and crashworthiness? So many of the comments above are about reliability and fuel economy and those are surely important considerations but maybe a bigger car would be worth consideration even if it used a little more fuel. Just one example from MY perspective: I would rather commute on SoCal freeways in rush hour in a Camry than a Yaris. We have a 2014 Mazda 3 sedan that still drives like new at 70,000 miles and only had one problem with its pop-up screen. That was a common problem so Mazda extended warranty coverage on all of them and replaced the screens free.

"My" car is a 2019 Civic Si and for $25,000 out-the-door it is LOTS of fun with terrific driving dynamics, comfy interior and 32 mpg overall since new. Only routine maintenance but that's only been one visit since it hasn't even hit 8,000 miles yet. I'm retired so even when not avoiding COV-19 it can sit in the garage for days at a time. Routine service is a bit more expensive than the Mazda but this may well be due to different price models between the two dealers. FWIW Pacific Honda's service department only rates a "C" from me whereas John Hine Mazda is an "A".

[cua90]

Hard to go past a Corolla. They're like the Energiser Bunny - they just keep going and going.

+1. 2007 still running strong with 140k+

[scoobydrew]

I'll vouch for the Prius. Not too much experience with the Gen2, but I have a 2013 Gen3 with a little over 100k miles on the clock. It used to be my daily driver with a 90mi round trip commute. With weekend mileage, I was racking up about 20k mi per year before transitioning to public transportation. Maintenance has been a breeze so far with only scheduled oil and fluid changes, filters, and a set of tires. If you're light on the brakes, the original pads will probably last 200k mi if not greater. Plenty of room in the cabin for 4 adults.

[Tickdoc]

FWIW I just rented a Kia Optima from hertz and drove it half way across the country and it was really nice. Quiet, spacious, fast, good fuel economy. It would make an excellent daily commuter. Sedans are a dying breed but just as useful as ever and a better deal than just about anything out there with the rise in suvs.

[BobbyJones]

Nothing wrong with Corollas and Civics, but why think small? If you're looking at older cars, check out Accords and Camrys around 2010.

Contemporary styling (for now), Similar pricing, MPG and maintenance expense as the econoboxes (at least around here) but a whole different level of vehicle.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Happy owner of a 2003 Camry XLE 4cyl 2.4L here. Bought it with 125k and it now has 187k. Heated leather seats. Several months ago I replaced the entire suspension, probably at a cost that was almost half of what I could sell it for, but it was worth it to me. They are great cars. I had the motor mount bushings replaced as well as a section of exhaust that the failing mounts had caused to crack/leak at about 160k. That was about $600. I asked my mechanic if putting that money into the car at that point was a wise move. He chuckled and told me I was about at the halfway point of lifetime mileage the car should see.

My FIL retired from the powertrain line at the Georgetown Camry plant. He knows this drivetrain in and out and his endorsement was a deciding factor for me. I bought it when I was commuting a lot in 2014. It sees relatively few miles now. Much to my wife's chagrin, I just want to run it into the ground.

[p nut]

Happy owner of a 2003 Camry XLE 4cyl 2.4L here. Bought it with 125k and it now has 187k. Heated leather seats. Several months ago I replaced the entire suspension, probably at a cost that was almost half of what I could sell it for, but it was worth it to me. They are great cars. I had the motor mount bushings replaced as well as a section of exhaust that the failing mounts had caused to crack/leak at about 160k. That was about $600. I asked my mechanic if putting that money into the car at that point was a wise move. He chuckled and told me I was about at the halfway point of lifetime mileage the car should see.

My FIL retired from the powertrain line at the Georgetown Camry plant. He knows this drivetrain in and out and his endorsement was a deciding factor for me. I bought it when I was commuting a lot in 2014. It sees relatively few miles now. Much to my wife's chagrin, I just want to run it into the ground.

A family friend growing up, had an older 92? Camry. Had 250k when they finally sold it 15 yrs later, still running great. My current neighbor has a 2000 Camry. 280k miles and running strong. Minimal maintenance. ES300 of the same vintage with 160k miles. Same drivetrain, I think (at least the V6 model). All running great. That sort of dependability is hard to beat.

[hokoman]

Actually, now that I think about it... Depending how far your commute is.. the FIT is a loud 'cheap' car. If I didn't live in NY, we would have a nicer 'quieter/smooter' driving car. When I drive my CRV that is in CA, it feels like a luxury car compared to the FIT. 😂🤣😂

[pbarry]

I’ve put 50k miles on my 2016 Chevy Sonic, happy with the purchase. A few minor warranty items have been fixed, but very dependable, decent mileage 32-35mpg, with the 1.8 NA engine. In the top two or three for sub compact safety ratings. You should be able to find a very clean example with low miles in your budget.

[texbike]

A 10-15 year old Lexus could be a good option in your price category. They're essentially nicely-appointed Toyota products with higher quality materials. Also, it seems to be easy to find well-cared for examples as they were often bought by older, wealthier individuals (at least around here). The models to look for are ES, GS, IS250/350, RX (really nice, small SUVs), and possibly even a LS430 in your budget range as well. All are nice cars that drive great, are reliable, and great for families. They're what I suggest to friends and family members that are looking for a 2nd car or one for their kids.

Texbike

[Mike V]

Is the only requirement that it can transport 2 kids and be in budget?

[BobbyJones]

A family friend growing up, had an older 92? Camry. Had 250k when they finally sold it 15 yrs later, still running great. My current neighbor has a 2000 Camry. 280k miles and running strong. Minimal maintenance. ES300 of the same vintage with 160k miles. Same drivetrain, I think (at least the V6 model). All running great. That sort of dependability is hard to beat.

Personally, I think the 98-02 era of Accords or Camrys hit the trifecta: Modern Amenities (ABS, Airbags, etc), reliability, and easy to work on. The problem is that unless you know the history or 1like tinkering they're just "too old" for the average person.

07-11 era hits a nice sweet spot of being "as modern" as a new model at half the price.

[weisan]

I find these car threads fascinating and a bit laughable, much like the disc brakes debate...while people are arguing the different "merits", my old faithful (91 honda accord) keep chucking along...day after day after day...the odometer now in excess of 260,000 miles with no sighs of slowing. same with my rim-braked bike, keep delivering yet another successful and awesome ride... today, yesterday, the day before...the numbers keep tickin' while pals are still talking. It makes absolutely no sense to me but hey, it's entertainment! :D

[RWL2222]

I did this drill last summer. So much depends on what is available at any given time. Getting locked in on a particular car, especially one in high demand like a Prius, can lead to a lot of wasted time.

I was looking for a car I could drive for a year, until I my then 15 year-old turned 16, and he would drive it. I looked on Craigs for a while, for all the cars listed by previous posters. I prob spent too long screwing around, but I could walk to work, so I took my time. Hanging out at the bottom of the craiglist listings was a 2012 Volvo S60 with 100k. I had sworn of Vv but it was getting time to make something happen. The guy who owned mentioned he collected British Leyland and Mercedes. Hmmm... The dealer had all the maintenance records. The 2012 was the first year of the design, which was current until 2018.

$6k did the deal. The fuel efficiency stinks but driving about 4k a year, who cares. Gotta be flexible and patient.

[martinez]

can't go wrong with older civics or camrys.
for newer within the past ten years...I would go Prius, Fit or HRV (although not 10 years old).

[mt2u77]

My vote would be to go a step up in size from the Corolla/Civic compacts to the Camry/Accord level. In my experience, the suspensions and drivetrains are built better and stand up to the rigors of commuting better. Reduced road/cabin noise, slightly better crashworthiness, and lower insurance costs more than make up for the couple of mpgs you lose.


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[weisan]

My vote would be to go a step up in size from the Corolla/Civic compacts to the Camry/Accord level. In my experience, the suspensions and drivetrains are built better and stand up to the rigors of commuting better. Reduced road/cabin noise, slightly better crashworthiness, and lower insurance costs more than make up for the couple of mpgs you lose.


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I agree. I have noticed that too.

[mcteague]

Check out the Mazda line. According to Consumer Reports they are now one of the most reliable brands. Honda seems to have dropped down quite a bit.

Tim

[Leyczo]

Check out the Mazda line. According to Consumer Reports they are now one of the most reliable brands. Honda seems to have dropped down quite a bit.

Tim

Seriously, I feel like I dropped the ball by not suggesting a Miata.

[Ken Robb]

Mazda might have ranked higher but almost every 3 series from 2014-18 had bugs develop in the pop-up screen. Mazda extended the warranty to cover them and replaced them free. It took a few years for them to recognize the problem and for a while we thought we might have to either buy a used screen for $3-400 or pay a dealer $900 for a new one. I was very pleased Mazda did the right thing.

[doomridesout]

My vote would be to go a step up in size from the Corolla/Civic compacts to the Camry/Accord level. In my experience, the suspensions and drivetrains are built better and stand up to the rigors of commuting better. Reduced road/cabin noise, slightly better crashworthiness, and lower insurance costs more than make up for the couple of mpgs you lose.


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This might be good advice-- This will be a commute that's 50 mostly rural miles round trip, including lots of bad pavement in the county. Thanks for the heads-up.

[C40_guy]

This might be good advice-- This will be a commute that's 50 mostly rural miles round trip, including lots of bad pavement in the county. Thanks for the heads-up.

First gen Porsche Boxster. Rent a minivan for the occasional family outing.

Yea, it will cost you more. Much more for maintenance. But put the top down, blast down those rural roads and you'll be in heaven.

[StanleySteamer]

I emailed you 3 Scotty Kilmer videos on best used cars.

[palincss]

How much do you value comfort and crashworthiness? So many of the comments above are about reliability and fuel economy and those are surely important considerations but maybe a bigger car would be worth consideration even if it used a little more fuel. Just one example from MY perspective: I would rather commute on SoCal freeways in rush hour in a Camry than a Yaris. We have a 2014 Mazda 3 sedan that still drives like new at 70,000 miles and only had one problem with its pop-up screen. That was a common problem so Mazda extended warranty coverage on all of them and replaced the screens free.

"My" car is a 2019 Civic Si and for $25,000 out-the-door it is LOTS of fun with terrific driving dynamics, comfy interior and 32 mpg overall since new. Only routine maintenance but that's only been one visit since it hasn't even hit 8,000 miles yet. I'm retired so even when not avoiding COV-19 it can sit in the garage for days at a time. Routine service is a bit more expensive than the Mazda but this may well be due to different price models between the two dealers. FWIW Pacific Honda's service department only rates a "C" from me whereas John Hine Mazda is an "A".

The Prius has many fine qualities. I have a VW Golf Alltrack (mine) and a Prius V (my wife's). Great gas mileage, lots of room. The most significant downside to a Prius is that you have to drive a Prius. You know how they make a Prius: you start with a perfect car, and distill out everything that makes a car fun to drive. What's left is a Prius.

[stien]

The Prius is perfect in its own way.

Want a car that you can put hundreds of thousands of miles on without remorse?
Want a car you can get great mileage hauling 2 bikes and 2 people or tons of gear?
Beat the crap out of?
Not really maintain beyond oil changes, brakes, tires?
Be small enough to park with easy yet swallow the mentioned-above?
Not rust ridiculously?
It’s the perfect car. Wonder why they sold so many.

You can still throw it into a corner. It’s more efficient not to use the brakes. Not everybody needs to race to work.

[pjm]

Lots of Fit recommendations, but would you really feel comfortable with your children in a tiny subcompact? I recommend an Accord, if only for the extra safety. There’s a reason the Accord has made Car & Driver’s 10 Best list more than any other car.

[Ken Robb]

The Prius is perfect in its own way.

Want a car that you can put hundreds of thousands of miles on without remorse?
Want a car you can get great mileage hauling 2 bikes and 2 people or tons of gear?
Beat the crap out of?
Not really maintain beyond oil changes, brakes, tires?
Be small enough to park with easy yet swallow the mentioned-above?
Not rust ridiculously?
It’s the perfect car. Wonder why they sold so many.

You can still throw it into a corner. It’s more efficient not to use the brakes. Not everybody needs to race to work.
Its own way wouldn't be my way. Ooops, I didn't mean that to sound snarky. I mean I value some other things in addition to cheap/ dependable. Fun to drive or serene environment and/or nice sound system, etc.

[skiezo]

I really like the Lexus / Acura line from a few years ago.
My 04 TL had 280k and still going strong but rust beat the driveline tonth3 graveyard. The Lexus line is just as good imho.

[steelbikerider]

Not exciting but practical, 4 door sedans-
https://www.autotrader.com/best-cars/8-best-used-family-sedans-under-10000-2019-281474979919588

[NHAero]

I owned a 2005 Prius that did everything Stien lists, but even though I am no longer the motorhead I was when young, I traded it in because it was like driving a mini-oldsmobile. That exciting! The Fit at least feels taut and sporty.

I think there's good advice in this thread, given the actual drive you have, to go up a notch in size and comfort to the Accord level of vehicle.

This thread makes me wonder how many miles my mom's Camry has on it. It's probably 15 years old. She still occasionally drives (at 95-1/2 years old) - She told me she's staying very safe due to COVID-19 but she drives the car around once a week to keep it from just sitting.

I bet it doesn't have 30K miles...

[Louis]

This thread makes me wonder how many miles my mom's Camry has on it. It's probably 15 years old. She still occasionally drives (at 95-1/2 years old) - She told me she's staying very safe due to COVID-19 but she drives the car around once a week to keep it from just sitting.

I bet it doesn't have 30K miles...

Yeah, but they've been TOUGH miles...

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/t_original/i49rtxufg8jusgpl1l7m.gif

[Ralph]

I realize there is a foreign bias about vehicles on this forum. But consider the same type of used domestic vehicle may be about 1/2 the price of these popular vehicles. And lots of what breaks on these cars has already been repaired.

Example: I "inherited" my MIL's 2008 Mercury Milan. A Premier Version. Means it's got a moon roof, leather (mostly fake) seating, and a nice satellite radio (Sirius 3 years for $79), etc. An orphan car. It currently has 54,000 miles on it....and is maybe worth $3000. Since I've had it....have fixed a door latch, electric window motor, and a couple other cheaply made items (I think). Plus normal fix and repair items.

But the 2.3 liter engine and transmission is exactly same combination Ford put in all those Transit Connects that run around Europe for 200,000-300,000 miles. And the car runs and drives great. Did I mention it's worth about nothing.

And sure....I would rather have a nice Accord, Camry, Acura, Lexus, etc....of this age and mileage. But not for 2-3 times the money. There are lots of unloved vehicles out there, without buying everyone's favorite used car.

My Dad was in the used car business. He always said....if buying new look for vehicles that depreciate the least. If buying used....look for vehicles that have depreciated the most and are in good condition.

[azrider]

My Dad was in the used car business. He always said....if buying new look for vehicles that depreciate the least. If buying used....look for vehicles that have depreciated the most and are in good condition.

So buying new: Toyota, Lexus. Buying used: Mercedes.

Got it.

all kidding aside............that's good advice

[cinema]

Keep in mind fleet vehicles like livery/taxi drivers regularly get 4-500k miles out of the toyota v6 engines (camry/highlander/sienna). Theres a reason they use those vehicles they last a long time and are reliable compared to cheaper options

[Ralph]

To answer your original question.....Civics are usually reliable cars, even with some miles on them.

However.....if I was in your situation.....I'm not sure I would buy a used car. I don't think, contrary to general opinion, used cars are always cheaper to drive. Can depend on the situation.

If you buy a used vehicle with 75,000-80,000 miles on it....about half of the car is used up.....so you are only buying about half a car....and you are buying the part that is beginning to need some parts or repairs. And even if just tires, brakes, maybe some electronic items next couple years.....that can easily average $200-$300 per month....and maybe more if something expensive breaks (transmission?).

For $200-$300 per month.....you can lease or buy a new base version of a fairly nice car.....Civic, Fit, HRV, Corolla, Kia, Hyundai, etcc and get all the new safety equipment....get a new car warranty, and start off with new tires and everything. If your situation remains the same....and you like the car....just buy it from the lease or keep paying if you buy it. If not, give it back.

At any rate....If I were you, I would not assume common "wisdom" is always so. Used cars are not always cheaper. I would just get a new car for $200-300 hundred dollars a month....look for the advertised deals. And spend nothing else for at least 3 years.

(they can be cheaper if you buy a fixer upper for about nothing, and drive it a long time....which you said you didn't want to do)

[nickl]

Keep in mind fleet vehicles like livery/taxi drivers regularly get 4-500k miles out of the toyota v6 engines (camry/highlander/sienna). Theres a reason they use those vehicles they last a long time and are reliable compared to cheaper options

Not sure about your location but in the northeast cabbies overwhelmingly prefer 4cyl versions of the models you mention when available. Not possible for Siennas (since around 2013) but that’s the case for Camry and Highlanders and hybrids are favored esp in NYC.

[BobbyJones]

So buying new: Toyota, Lexus. Buying used: Mercedes.

Got it.

all kidding aside............that's good advice

And for our next lesson, we'll take a look at why some cars depreciate more than others :)

[mtechnica]

Leasing makes sense except the mileage limit can be an issue.

[mtechnica]

You can lease a Chevy bolt right now for like 250 or buy one with like 10k off and 0% apr FYI

[Ralph]

Leasing makes sense except the mileage limit can be an issue.

that's true....lots of miles can run up the cost of a lease. But....lots of miles make the car you buy cost more also....depreciates more.

I'm an investor. basically live off investments. I hate buying all of a vehicle, when I'm not planning to use it for it's whole life. I also dislike buying anything I know will lose at least half it's value in 3-5 years.

When I lease....I usually go for the 10,000 mile per year price......and if I drive 15,000 per year....settle up at end. Or buy it, and not have to settle up. What I'm looking to do is drive the vehicle for about nothing, invest the money, and settle up when I'm done.

I once had a dealership (a client of mine) told me to pick a new car off his lot (BMW), drive it for a year....and at end of year settle up with him for miles driven. My kind of deal!

[cinema]

i just had to help navigate my neighbors out of a lease. it is a horrible and predatory lending behavior if you are not wealthy. add up down payment/monthly/PLUS RETURN FEES. when they returned the vehicle were charged thousands in damages despite it not being so bad at all (they had kids, it was a bit messy inside and had some crayon markings etc. you are at the mercy of the dealership. then the dealership pockets most of that fee, turns around and sells it 'certified' for way more than its worth, makes even more money on the next owners financing, etc.

[Ralph]

i just had to help navigate my neighbors out of a lease. it is a horrible and predatory lending behavior if you are not wealthy. add up down payment/monthly/PLUS RETURN FEES. when they returned the vehicle were charged thousands in damages despite it not being so bad at all (they had kids, it was a bit messy inside and had some crayon markings etc. you are at the mercy of the dealership. then the dealership pockets most of that fee, turns around and sells it 'certified' for way more than its worth, makes even more money on the next owners financing, etc.

They could have just bought the car out of the lease without returning it, or the dealership seeing it. Cleaned it up....scratch and dent people, detailed, etc.....then sold it themselves.

Without having money for these options....leasing is a more expensive way to own a car. It's only cheaper for some people....who have other more profitable uses for their money. Unfortunately so many get sucked into these deals without understanding how it works. No free lunch....if cheaper up front....you pay at end.

[ronlau]

My family needs to bite the bullet and get a second car, mostly for me to commute on days I can't ride and to travel for work. It won't need to be a gear-hauler or adventuremobile, although those things are a bonus. Being able to run two child seats in the back is a bonus too. We're looking in the $8000-9000 ballpark (in the California used car market). What should I get? I'm not savvy with car mechanics, so don't tell me to find a deal that just needs a little DIY work in the garage.

I just saw Hertz filed for bankruptcy protection and they have some cheap vehicles... but they're the budget-line Nissan Versa and Sentra, which have a spotty reputation for reliability and some aspects are not well reviewed. I'd prefer to get a Toyota or Honda to serve this need instead, but they hold value much better than the Nissans and are out of our price range in comparable mileages. Is a higher mileage Honda Civic a better buy than a lower mileage Nissan or Hyundai?

Thoughts from the peanut gallery?

Might I suggest you try to find a used Benz E320 Wagon?

My mechanic suggested that to me and I bought one since. Below is the list of reason why I like it.

1. Reliable engine.
2. Fit a bike without taking wheels off.
3. 3rd row rear facing seats for kids.
4. Insurance and dmv registration is low compare with newer cars.
5. Almost 100% analog. Which I love.

Mine is year 2000, cost me less than set of new Carbon wheels.

Which part of North CA are you in? I live in Bay Area and you can come check it out yourself.

Ron

[C40_guy]

The auto industry is one of the most consumable/obsolete industries around. Companies constantly tell us that our year old car is obsolete and must be replaced. Volvo was once taken to task by an autowriter for not having changed the design of the taillight on their wagon for several years.

So...people choose to go into deep hock for a new car...loans on new cars now average 69 months. On used cars, they average 65 months.

Or they choose a 39 month rental (lease), where they pay through the nose for the privilege of driving a new car, and then at the end of the lease, they have to do it all over again. They've built no equity.

For the past two months all of those lease holders have paid anywhere from $10 to $50 a day for the privilege of not driving their car. (plus parking and insurance)

I buy older German cars that have gotten to the latter part of the depreciation curve, typically around 100K miles. Yea, they may not have Apple CarPlay, but they do have sumptuous leather interiors, handle great, and cruise down the highway in comfort. I pay nothing in carrying costs, and I occasionally pay a private mechanic to fix something.

Squeeze yourself out of a new Civic and test drive a ten year old Audi A6 or MB 300 series. Either of these will cost you less than half of that new Civic and be far more enjoyable to drive.

Also have more room to carry bikes. :)

/rant

[Ralph]

The auto industry is one of the most consumable/obsolete industries around. Companies constantly tell us that our year old car is obsolete and must be replaced. Volvo was once taken to task by an autowriter for not having changed the design of the taillight on their wagon for several years.

So...people choose to go into deep hock for a new car...loans on new cars now average 69 months. On used cars, they average 65 months.

Or they choose a 39 month rental (lease), where they pay through the nose for the privilege of driving a new car, and then at the end of the lease, they have to do it all over again. They've built no equity.

For the past two months all of those lease holders have paid anywhere from $10 to $50 a day for the privilege of not driving their car. (plus parking and insurance)

I buy older German cars that have gotten to the latter part of the depreciation curve, typically around 100K miles. Yea, they may not have Apple CarPlay, but they do have sumptuous leather interiors, handle great, and cruise down the highway in comfort. I pay nothing in carrying costs, and I occasionally pay a private mechanic to fix something.

Squeeze yourself out of a new Civic and test drive a ten year old Audi A6 or MB 300 series. Either of these will cost you less than half of that new Civic and be far more enjoyable to drive.

Also have more room to carry bikes. :)

/rant

I don't disagree at all. My son drives an older BMW. it's not trouble free, but labor is labor at his independent shop....whether on his car or cheap car, and BMW parts from online source or local parts store not too bad. But....you have to want to do that.

[zetroc]

Don't get a Prius. Get a Camry or Corolla. With regular maintenance, they run forever.

[buddybikes]

Get a Vespa and enjoy life

[paredown]

Might I suggest you try to find a used Benz E320 Wagon?

My mechanic suggested that to me and I bought one since. Below is the list of reason why I like it.

1. Reliable engine.
2. Fit a bike without taking wheels off.
3. 3rd row rear facing seats for kids.
4. Insurance and dmv registration is low compare with newer cars.
5. Almost 100% analog. Which I love.

Mine is year 2000, cost me less than set of new Carbon wheels.

Which part of North CA are you in? I live in Bay Area and you can come check it out yourself.

Ron
Curious as to what year you ended up with?

This option has been on my list for a while--although we ended up with the Acura TSX (that I don't love). I remember a recent thread on BringaTrailer where someone was waxing poetic about E320 wagons and am curious about years to watch out for etc.

[carpediemracing]

I'm going from anecdotal evidence, working in the auto repair industry. I'd buy really new or pretty old. I'd also avoid, if transportation is the main thing, euro brands.

Our personal fleet consists of really new (2017 Civic, bought new) and pretty old (2001 Suburban, bought in 2017, and 2002 Sentra, bought in 2016). We bought all our vehicles at the same time due to having previously owned two VW TDIs that VW bought back from us (they were not trouble free for sure which is why we didn't buy 2 more).

A new Civic is basically as big as a slightly older Accord. I haven't checked leg room dimensions etc but it's huge, and a hatchback would be my preference (wasn't offered with the trim option - heated seats and manual - at the time so we got the sedan). It's the 1.5 liter turbo (no issues with the gas thing as of yet, 30k mi), typically gets about 35-40 mpg around town, 42-44 mpg highway (maybe higher? We don't take many road trips now).

Because of our kid I sit in the back whenever we all go out (except when I'm driving or for very long road trips where the Missus wants company up front), so I've been sitting in the back seat since the car was new. It's quite spacious and very doable, not as tight as the VWs we had prior (2010 Jetta wagon, 2010 Golf).

I'm not sure of corrosion in NorCal but in CT it's bad. I needed a tow vehicle to legally pull a 7000 lbs rated trailer. For $10k around here you have to choose which two cross members have rusted away, or if you want 18" of frame gone on one side or 9" gone from both sides /s. It's really bad. For $5400 ($3800vehicle+$1000 shipping+$500 buyer fee for my friend) I got a pristine 2001 Suburban from AZ, well maintained, so rust free that the exhaust had no rust on it. I perused Craigslist and would text promising vehicles to my friend, he looked at 3?, and the 3rd was the one. I PayPal'ed the money to him prior. And I trusted him because I'd done transactions with him before, I literally placed my life in his hands, and he apparently rebuilt the transmission in his truck (!!!).

I also found a pristine heavily modified car (02 Sentra) for $8k. It had 24k miles on it, was essentially brand new, and in fact at this time has fewer miles on it than the Missus's 17Civic. By now all its stock weaknesses have been identified (for my car, butterfly screws and exhaust cat) and both were handled by prior owner. Getting an older car with problems sorted is great.

At work I see cars that are about 15-20 years old with maybe 20-40k miles on them. If you can find one I'd look at it carefully, even with the premium such sellers usually tack on. Yes, the tires need to be replaced. Yes it's an older car. But if you don't mind dealing with that stuff then it's a nice way to drive.

The three things lacking with older cars is the safety, gas mileage, and power.

Safety - Door sills are not shoulder height (they're lower), lower hood (hurts pedestrians and cyclists you hit much more), no backup camera (req since 2015?), no anti skid control (required since 2012), not as many air bags, vehicles are lighter so probably crumple a bit more, etc.

For mileage - cars nowadays, at least in the same category, get much better mileage. The Sentra, even without mods, was a 25 mpg car. The Civic is a 35-40 mpg car, with the same HP (175 for both, stock). The Suburban is maybe 12-15 mpg, and newer ones will get closer to 20 mpg - a huge difference is windshield angle and air flow control at the bottom of the bumper. My Suburban's windshield looks upright compared to a current one, and current Suburban/Silverados have a lower bumper (first seen on the Tahoe Hybrid, the large reason why mileage went up on the highway for the Tahoe Hybrid).

Power - my Suburban has 295 hp I think. That's only a bit more than the current sedans, and well below the current generation's 400 hp. Sentra (Spec-V so the "sporty" one) is closer to now, 175 hp, but now that's a stock Civic 1.5, the Civic being better behaved, quieter, smoother, and getting 60% better mileage (with same width tires even). The Civic Si, not that much more, is over 200 hp, and there are loads of cars with 250-300 hp, and they probably get better mileage than my Sentra when it was stock.

For things I've seen:
- Slightly older 4 cal 2.5 liter Subarus burn oil, and should get regular synthetic oil changes.
- The 3.2 liter6 cylinder Subaru is virtually indestructible.
- Alternator in a V6 Camry/Lexus-whatever-car is a big job, like 4 hours, because it's in a ridiculous place.
- Certain headlights require removal of bumper to install bulb. Ford Fusion is most common car where this is the case. 1.5 or more hours labor. Dodge Ram pick up is another, maybe 1-1.2 hours?
- Prior gen Colorado pick up truck front rotors have bearings pressed into them. Doing the front brakes is a 4? hour job. I can't look it up but it's big. Normal is 0.8 to 1.0.
- adaptive headlights (the ones that steer) are crazy expensive. Cadillac older one (2012?) might be $3k to replace a busted headlamp assembly. The Cadillac service manager told me never to buy such a car without a warranty.
- get good tires, and matching ones if you have AWD or sensitive traction control etc.
- I've seen more Rogue and Murano blown transfer cases than any other vehicle, all of them run on mismatched tires for a year or three. The Murano hack fix is to simply remove the rear driveshaft. Effective actually.
- If you buy a disposable car (like an old Elantra for $500 or whatever) then treat it as such. Get safety things (tires, brakes) and drive it until something fails. I have coworkers that do that - one got a $500 Accent 3 years ago? and the transmission failed this year. It was his winter daily, and well worth the cost.

[Hawker]

Used Camry or Accord, 4 cyl, not 6. Generally they both run forever with regular oil changes. I've had great luck with both multiple times...but I've had Camry's that I've given away with 200K miles on them....and they are still running today five or six years later. However....the one costly thing I've dealt with on both brands is the AC after about 150K miles. Buy at least two years old and more than likely you'll have made a wise long-term purchase. Also, both cars have enthusiast forums and you should check those out for any possible lemon issues that occasionally arise with just about every brand at some time.

Good luck.

[yinzerniner]

Used Camry or Accord, 4 cyl, not 6. Generally they both run forever with regular oil changes. I've had great luck with both multiple times...but I've had Camry's that I've given away with 200K miles on them....and they are still running today five or six years later. However....the one costly thing I've dealt with on both brands is the AC after about 150K miles. Buy at least two years old and more than likely you'll have made a wise long-term purchase. Also, both cars have enthusiast forums and you should check those out for any possible lemon issues that occasionally arise with just about every brand at some time.

Good luck.

Yeah this is very sage advice.

Just from my personal experience of the last 20 years of car ownership:
-4 cyl Accords and Camrys are basically unkillable. With regular oil changes the min is 300K miles on the engine, with sporadic maintenance 200k. Comfy if not a bit spartan, Accord has better ride/handling/steering/feel vs Camry but Camry has better NVH/comfort/smoothness.
-The standard German engines (ie not the special or high-perfomance models) are very reliable IF THEY'VE HAD REGULAR MAINTENANCE. Can't stress this enough. They should be good for 150k miles plus with regular maintenance, but unless you buy from a meticulous original owner this is a crapshoot. And a pre-purchase inspection is a must.
-MUSA vehicles will always be cheaper than the two mentioned above, and while they break down more than Japanese vehicles they are also very cheap to fix. But with a few exceptions the regular cars and suvs just don't match the quality of Japanese models
-If the OP is looking for a daily driver then they need to do a ranked list of priorities first then think about the car second. Purchase price, maintenance cost, comfort, driving dynamics, cargo capability, fuel economy, safety, tech, etc etc. Once the priorities are aligned then the vehicle choices end up narrowing down themselves.