Is there a way get a good estimate if a wheel fit to a bike?

[tuxbailey]

Thinking about a set of wheels but my bike has tight clearance in the back and I am not sure if they will fit. 28c tires won't fit in the back.

The manufacturer's specification for the target wheel width is 26.4mm.

Pictures below are how the current wheel fits. DT RR440 with Vittoria Corsa 25c tires.

The rim width is about 21.5mm according to my caliper. Official width is 21mm. With the tire at about 85 psi, the width of the tire is about 26.5mm.

At the chainstays the black paint/metal line is where the wheel's edge is. The gap is about 31mm. The blue tape marks where tire ends and the gap there is about 28.5mm.

Based on the gap the wheel should fit but not sure if it will still fit with a 25c tire.

https://tuxbailey.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p3902172371-5.jpg
https://tuxbailey.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p3902172372-5.jpg

[Steve in SLO]

I don’t know if ithis exactly answers your question, but in the past I have measured the wheel from center of axle to the fattest part of the tire, and taken the same measurement from the center of the dropout along the chainstay and marked the chainstay. Then measure width of the tire then the distance between chainstays at the mark and compare. If the tire is not mounted, there is plenty of information out there on width of various tires on various rims.

[tuxbailey]

Mods: Posted in the wrong sub, can it be moved to general?

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[Peter P.]

Any reason why you won't just buy a tire from your local shop to try?

I did this when trying to see what the largest tire would fit my frame. I wouldn't ride the tire, just mount it and check clearances. Then I'd return the tire and try the next size up.

[NHAero]

I think he's pondering whether to buy a new set of wheels, so a bit more involved and costly process.
My experience is that wider rims widen the tire too. My 25 mm conti gp5000 tires are 27.6mm on Easton R90SL rims, whereas my 28 mm Corsa G+ are 28.4 mm on narrower HED Belgium rims. i'm guessing the Corsa tires would grow on the Easton rims.

Any reason why you won't just buy a tire from your local shop to try?

I did this when trying to see what the largest tire would fit my frame. I wouldn't ride the tire, just mount it and check clearances. Then I'd return the tire and try the next size up.

[tuxbailey]

I think he's pondering whether to buy a new set of wheels, so a bit more involved and costly process.

My experience is that wider rims widen the tire too. My 25 mm conti gp5000 tires are 27.6mm on Easton R90SL rims, whereas my 28 mm Corsa G+ are 28.4 mm on narrower HED Belgium rims. i'm guessing the Corsa tires would grow on the Easton rims.Yeah that is the case.

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[prototoast]

I wouldn't based on those pictures. If you take the wheel off, I'm certain you have evidence of the tire rubbing against the chainstays. Now, if you go to a rim that's wider than your tire, you might end up with a rim rubbing against the chainstays. That strikes me as a risky proposition that could cause real damage to one or both.

[AngryScientist]

moved for you.

based on best guess and given info, i would say those tires are going to be a no-go with the rims you're considering.

[CNY rider]

Look on the bright side: Now you have a good reason to buy another bicycle, to go with your new wheels!

[tuxbailey]

moved for you.

based on best guess and given info, i would say those tires are going to be a no-go with the rims you're considering.

Thanks!

Yeah, it will probably work with 23c but I don't think I will go back that route. Well, another sign that I shouldn't think of new wheels until later.

[tuxbailey]

Look on the bright side: Now you have a good reason to buy another bicycle, to go with your new wheels!

Perfectly logical :)

[tuxbailey]

I wouldn't based on those pictures. If you take the wheel off, I'm certain you have evidence of the tire rubbing against the chainstays. Now, if you go to a rim that's wider than your tire, you might end up with a rim rubbing against the chainstays. That strikes me as a risky proposition that could cause real damage to one or both.

Yes that is my worry. If a new rim is a couple mm wider than my current rim than I feel okay. But at 5+ mm and increase of tire width as NHAero said it will cause some concern.

[Hilltopperny]

The price you pay for those 1” stays! Any particular reason you are looking for a wider set of wheels for this particular bike?


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[tuxbailey]

The price you pay for those 1” stays! Any particular reason you are looking for a wider set of wheels for this particular bike?


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Haha. Yeah the bike is very nice and I don't want to upgrade it. Just toying with the idea of getting some Carbon wheels as a self-reward for weight loss success. Performance wise I don't think it will add a lot. Just thinking of trying them out.

[ergott]

More important is the inner rim width. Some 26mm carbon rims have an inner width of only 18mm. The DT rim is 16mm inner. I have a Serotta with little clearance so I run Astral Radiant rims (similar to Hed Belgium, Boyd etc) at about 19.5mm inner. I'm using 23mm tubeless tires (Schwalbe) and they and others typically measure 25mm wide. That gives me comfortable clearance and I think it's plenty tire for my circumstances. I know that's not for everyone, just for reference.

[ultraman6970]

If you are trying to go modern extra wide wheels in a frame like that you are in bad luck. How old is the frame? like 15 or 20 years old?

Looks like frame is titanium... honestly I do not see the problem of going 22 mm rims with 23 mm clinchers. Personally Im not like super fan of wider rims, I have some wheels with wide rims tho and dont like the handling too much with wider rims but that's debatable as everything in life, just my preference.

If you dont weight too much always you can go with a nice pair of costume built tubular wheels, you can go old school like a gp4 rim and put 23mm tubulars in those wheels for example.

[tuxbailey]

If you are trying to go modern extra wide wheels in a frame like that you are in bad luck. How old is the frame? like 15 or 20 years old?

Looks like frame is titanium... honestly I do not see the problem of going 22 mm rims with 23 mm clinchers. Personally Im not like super fan of wider rims, I have some wheels with wide rims tho and dont like the handling too much with wider rims but that's debatable as everything in life, just my preference.

If you dont weight too much always you can go with a nice pair of costume built tubular wheels, you can go old school like a gp4 rim and put 23mm tubulars in those wheels for example.

haha, the bike is from 2012. But because they built it using 1" chainstays it affects the maximum wheel width.

Bike in question:

https://bikerumor.com/2012/06/20/new-guru-praemio-r-oversized-titanium-road-bike-makes-ti-racier/

[tuxbailey]

More important is the inner rim width. Some 26mm carbon rims have an inner width of only 18mm. The DT rim is 16mm inner. I have a Serotta with little clearance so I run Astral Radiant rims (similar to Hed Belgium, Boyd etc) at about 19.5mm inner. I'm using 23mm tubeless tires (Schwalbe) and they and others typically measure 25mm wide. That gives me comfortable clearance and I think it's plenty tire for my circumstances. I know that's not for everyone, just for reference.

I am not familiar with the wheel's inner width in relation to inflated tire width. So with bigger inner width the tire won't "expand" as much?

[Hilltopperny]

Haha. Yeah the bike is very nice and I don't want to upgrade it. Just toying with the idea of getting some Carbon wheels as a self-reward for weight loss success. Performance wise I don't think it will add a lot. Just thinking of trying them out.


Congrats on the weight loss! I dropped around 25lbs myself over the past few months and decided to keep the Columbine I was potentially going to sell. Like the Guru it is limited to 25mm tires.

I was contemplating swapping the silver 8spd chorus for the modern 11spd Campagnolo group that I removed from my Great Divide and some more modern wide wheels, but I just haven’t brought myself around to do it just yet and not really sure the wheels I have will fit with enough clearance.


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[KJMUNC]

“the industry’s only 1” ti chainstays.....well we probably know why this is the case!

Some great thoughts above on going with a narrower rim and wider tire....vs. wide rim + wide tire.....that would be my suggestion. Plenty of "older"/narrow-rim options to choose from, even with carbon.

[tuxbailey]

“the industry’s only 1” ti chainstays.....well we probably know why this is the case!

Some great thoughts above on going with a narrower rim and wider tire....vs. wide rim + wide tire.....that would be my suggestion. Plenty of "older"/narrow-rim options to choose from, even with carbon.

Yup, waiting for a set of Bora 35 to show up since they are narrower and only 2-3 mm wider than my current wheels

[tuxbailey]

Congrats on the weight loss! I dropped around 25lbs myself over the past few months and decided to keep the Columbine I was potentially going to sell. Like the Guru it is limited to 25mm tires.

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Thanks!

[pdmtong]

Yup, waiting for a set of Bora 35 to show up since they are narrower and only 2-3 mm wider than my current wheels

If the Bora One 35 fits in there you will definitely want to run it with a "smaller" 25 like a Vittoria G+ corsa and not a fatter 25 like a conti 4ks2. Running the newer "wider" rims with a 23 defeats the purpose of the wider rim, and introduces a greater potential for rim damage if you puncture.

Does the fork /brake have the clearance needed?

Obviously the challenge here is the frame is built for older narrower rims and 23's - this is the same situation with my peg. I'm happy running 23/25 on C15 shamal mille on that frame.

[tuxbailey]

If the Bora One 35 fits in there you will definitely want to run it with a "smaller" 25 like a Vittoria G+ corsa and not a fatter 25 like a conti 4ks2. Running the newer "wider" rims with a 23 defeats the purpose of the wider rim, and introduces a greater potential for rim damage if you puncture.

Does the fork /brake have the clearance needed?

Obviously the challenge here is the frame is built for older narrower rims and 23's - this is the same situation with my peg. I'm happy running 23/25 on C15 shamal mille on that frame.

The fork should be ok. It is an ENVE 2.0 fork with Ultegra brake.

[ergott]

I am not familiar with the wheel's inner width in relation to inflated tire width. So with bigger inner width the tire won't "expand" as much?Inner width (distance between hooks inside rim) has more of an effect on tire actual width than the total width of rim. Going from say 15mm (older standard like Open Pro) to 20mm makes the tire wider when inflated. Typically a modern rim like Boyd, Hed Easton R90, etc a 23mm tire measures 25mm. That's a generalization, but you get the idea.

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[ergott]

Running the newer "wider" rims with a 23 defeats the purpose of the wider rim, and introduces a greater potential for rim damage if you puncture.



I don't necessarily agree. I run 23mm tubeless Schwalbe Pros on my Astral Radiants. It makes for a real nice tire/brake track transition that I'd wager is great for aerodynamics. Raced Battenkill with that setup and had no concern for my tire/rim in those conditions.



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[pdmtong]

Inner width (distance between hooks inside rim) has more of an effect on tire actual width than the total width of rim. Going from say 15mm (older standard like Open Pro) to 20mm makes the tire wider when inflated. Typically a modern rim like Boyd, Hed Easton R90, etc a 23mm tire measures 25mm. That's a generalization, but you get the idea.

I've seen all the charts but it still puzzles me that increasing the internal width from 15mm (open pro, kysrium, campy, most "older" wheels) to 17mm (campagnolo C17) or 18mm (belgian C2) makes that much difference.

I don't necessarily agree. I run 23mm tubeless Schwalbe Pros on my Astral Radiants. It makes for a real nice tire/brake track transition that I'd wager is great for aerodynamics. Raced Battenkill with that setup and had no concern for my tire/rim in those conditions.


I was thinking more about reconciling the OP want for Bora One clincher C17 and running 23s on that wheel - campagnolo NA is pretty adamant about not using that combo and says 25 minimum. I never got a straight answer as to why but presumably it is becasue the they did not like tire and carbon rim to be same width...eric, would love your opinion on this

[ergott]

I've seen all the charts but it still puzzles me that increasing the internal width from 15mm (open pro, kysrium, campy, most "older" wheels) to 17mm (campagnolo C17) or 18mm (belgian C2) makes that much difference.



I was thinking more about reconciling the OP want for Bora One clincher C17 and running 23s on that wheel - campagnolo NA is pretty adamant about not using that combo and says 25 minimum. I never got a straight answer as to why but presumably it is becasue the they did not like tire and carbon rim to be same width...eric, would love your opinion on this

Opinions on minimum tire recommendation to inner width vary. Hed is more lenient than some other companies like say, Mavic.

I can say with confidence (I measured) that my Schwalbe 23s are 25mm wide as they sit on my bike right now.

Here's Hed's recommendations on rim/tires and notes about resulting tire width. It falls in line with my experiences.

Tech Notes:

23mm C2 clincher rim MIN/MAX tire width: 22 - 42mm
25mm Plus clincher rim MIN/MAX tire width: 23 - 58mm

*Note: Our wide rims increase clincher tire volume, causing actual inflated sizes to be larger-than-advertised on the tire. Inflated sizes will be 1-2mm wider on our 23mm C2 rims, and 2-4mm wider on 25mm Plus rims.

[ultraman6970]

Then i retire what i said... and i will say this... guru made stuff for racing in particular, they werent your trek mtb dressed like road bike type of bike frames design.

Other manufacturers come to mind that did the same than guru like for example ridley, and we are talking about the same era 2012 ish they were still making racing bikes for 23 mm wide tires, even you still can find riders complaining because 25s barely fit or their 28s dont fit, which for me is not an issue... racing bike stuff and go touring stuff back 10 years ago was still well defined.

Have a cyfac and that one clearly wont clear 27 mm tubulars, 25's clearing in the chainstays is really tight and from what i gather other cyfac models are the same way, no idea about more modern cyfac tho, but mine is around 2012 aswell... around that era you started seeing more 28mm tires friendly wheels because the market was going that way.

I would put 25 or 23 mm tubulars and call it a day, u might even like the ride better with 23's tubulars. Yes, bringing up again the tubulars clinchers discussion :P

Nice bike man... have to try one of those one day.

haha, the bike is from 2012. But because they built it using 1" chainstays it affects the maximum wheel width.

Bike in question:

https://bikerumor.com/2012/06/20/new-guru-praemio-r-oversized-titanium-road-bike-makes-ti-racier/

[tuxbailey]

Then i retire what i said... and i will say this... guru made stuff for racing in particular, they werent your trek mtb dressed like road bike type of bike frames design.

Other manufacturers come to mind that did the same than guru like for example ridley, and we are talking about the same era 2012 ish they were still making racing bikes for 23 mm wide tires, even you still can find riders complaining because 25s barely fit or their 28s dont fit, which for me is not an issue... racing bike stuff and go touring stuff back 10 years ago was still well defined.

Have a cyfac and that one clearly wont clear 27 mm tubulars, 25's clearing in the chainstays is really tight and from what i gather other cyfac models are the same way, no idea about more modern cyfac tho, but mine is around 2012 aswell... around that era you started seeing more 28mm tires friendly wheels because the market was going that way.

I would put 25 or 23 mm tubulars and call it a day, u might even like the ride better with 23's tubulars. Yes, bringing up again the tubulars clinchers discussion :P

Nice bike man... have to try one of those one day.


It is definitely a nice ride and thanks Adam for a very good deal. I am surprised Guru doesn't get more love around here. It is definitely a racier bike but I have grown to like the ride a lot. The ride of my expired Merlin Extralight is "smoother" but this one is a different kind of "nice."

I don't think I will go tubular because I will never race, and I do have worries about punctures on the road.

[tuxbailey]

So I was poking around Light Bicycle's site and saw this chart. Some useful data about tires width based on rims in 17.9mm ID and 25mm OD.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/newsletter/Road-Bike-Tire-Width-Charts.html