Chain checker rec

[stackie]

What do you guys say did chain checker? Apparently measuring the chain is not good enough anymore. 11 speed chains here.

The cheapish $11 checker from park? That good enough or something more fancy?

Jon

[zzy]

A three pronged one like Rolhoff or Shimano is best as it doesn't tension the chain. The Park CC2 tends to exaggerate a bit.

[MikeD]

Park CC-4. Where did you get the idea that measuring is not enough?

[drewellison]

I use the cheap-oh Park Tool CC-3.2. It's a go/no-go for 0.5 and 0.75.
I finally figured out at 0.5 means 0.5% "stretch" and 0.75 means 0.75% stretch. So if 100 inches of chain measures 100.5 inches, that 0.5% stretch should register 0.5 on the tool.
I took one of my Campy C11 chains and when it just measured 0.5 on the Park Tool tool, I took it off and measured it out and it was actually 0.375% stretch. So, at least for Campy chains, the tool is a bit conservative, which is good in my opinion.
I think the diameter of the rollers affect the reading on this type of chain tool.
I'm happy with my Park CC-3.2
--Drew

[zmudshark]

I'm pretty sure anything that measures between the rollers will work equally well. You can't just measure a foot of chain and see where the pins fall like the old days. Back then the plates stretched, today the rollers wear out.

At least that's what I've been led to believe.

[NHAero]

The Pedros tool has the three prongs that stretches the chain properly and isn't expensive. Chain Checker Plus

[one60]

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/08/bicycle-chain-wear-and-checking-for-it/

[oldpotatoe]

What do you guys say did chain checker? Apparently measuring the chain is not good enough anymore. 11 speed chains here.

The cheapish $11 checker from park? That good enough or something more fancy?

Jon

Rohloff..

[Dave]

Different brands of chains wear differently. I had a KMC x11.93.93 that elongated so quickly, that measuring the increase in length with my 12 inch precision rule would work fine and the chain would probably reach .5% elongation in as little as 2000 miles.

A Campy chain wears much differently, with little elongation, so the precision rule or a full length measurement will not work. Campy recommends using calipers between the rollers to a length of 132.6mm. That measurement will be mostly the wear of the rollers at each end and a small amount of elongation. It might be a bit premature to toss the chain at that point, but it depends on whether you toss chains prematurely to avoid the inevitable new-chain skip or use several chains in a rotation to insure that new-chain skip never occurs.

I prefer to measure roller wear and elongation separately. When tossing chains prematurely, it's a crap shoot. There's no way to know if your timing between changes is too soon or too late. If you don't toss those 4 or 5 chains and eventually get new-chain skip, those old chains can probably be used at least another 500 miles each.

[SlowPokePete]

I replace my chains after about 1,500 miles no questions asked.

SPP

[stackie]

I had my bike in shop and they said my entire drivetrain wearing and would need new cassette and rings soon. Chain only elongated 1/16 inch. First chain on this group set!

I told them it was just getting to 1/16 inch. They recommended using chain checker vs simply measuring.

Jon

[MikeD]

I'm pretty sure anything that measures between the rollers will work equally well. You can't just measure a foot of chain and see where the pins fall like the old days. Back then the plates stretched, today the rollers wear out.



At least that's what I've been led to believe.


That is so wrong.

[NHAero]

Pete, I know you put a lot of miles on your bikes and I trust your experience.

FWIW, I switched to Squirt lube at the suggestion of my MTB buddy about a year ago. In that time, the bike I have the most miles on is the Firefly, which doesn't see mud and hardly any rain. I wipe the chain after each ride, and lube every 2 or 3 rides. The chain stays pretty clean and shiny looking (unlike my experience with every other chain lube I've used, many!). It's very slightly tacky.

I have just over 2,000 miles on a KMC 11 speed chain (KMC 11.93) which now I see according to some links here is one of the worst wearing chains! With the Pedros tool, there is no discernible wear. So I keep checking (as the articles tell us that wear is non-linear and usually accelerates) but I want to get the full useful life out of the chain possible while not ruining the cogs.

I'm also cursed with too many bikes so it's easier to check the chains occasionally than to keep track of how many miles are on each :)


I replace my chains after about 1,500 miles no questions asked.

SPP

[zmudshark]

That is so wrong.What is right?

[djg21]

I replace my chains after about 1,500 miles no questions asked.

SPP


Me too. Replace the chain before it is worn and you avoid issues with chain skip due to cassette/chain wear and you are able to minimize issues when using multiple wheels. There is nothing worse than taking a free lap in a crit to change a wheel and then not having the shifting work properly when trying to re-enter the race because the cassette on the new wheel and the chain have different levels of wear.

[MikeD]

What is right?


http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-004/000.html

https://yarchive.net/bike/chain_clean.html

[dddd]

The ruler method is still good if your eyes and technique are good.
Beware of cheap rulers not scaled accurately, especially at the zero end of the scale. A good thin steel machinist's rule seems best, not a tape measure or wooden ruler (that might change length with changes in humidity).

I like numerical data and I like this data distilled to the point of measuring actual pitch wear.

So, for a cheap chain measurement tool that satisfies the above need, I use a 6" digital caliper and this home-spun method:

First I set the caliper jaws out to 1.2", then take several inside measurements between rollers at several points along the chain's length.
I then discard any outlying measurements, and average the remaining two or three 1.2XX" measurements. Yes, I do this in my head, no paper and pencil.

I then set the jaws to 5.2" and repeat the above process.

Subtracting the 1.2XX" measurement from the 5.2XX measurement yields a 4.0XX" measurement.

The remaining XX" portion of the subtraction is the distilled pitch wear elongation of 4" of chain. The service limit for 0.5% stretch is .020".

-----Note that one must somewhat center the caliper's edges on the rollers for the measurements to come up consistent.

-----Note also that low-end chains, even highly-regarded cheapies like KMC's "X"-series chain, show a great deal of measurement fluctuation, due to irregular dimensions of the chain's components. It may thus require a larger number of measurements for one to arrive at confident measurements prior to subtracting the 1.2xx from the 5.2xx.

-----Lastly, I measure the lower run of the chain, and with shifters positioned in one of the taller gears. I then carefully lower the caliper jaws out of the openings in the chain to be able to move the caliper into a readable position. It all goes very quickly with practice, and I measure the chain of every bike that I service for the owner's information, translating this into "percent of remaining service life" or "percent of wear limit" (half full, half empty, like that).

I frequently come across high-end bike chains out at nearly 1% stretch if not more, and sometimes a new chain still works acceptably on such old tortured cassettes.
I think that with our hilly terrain and with so many cogs on today's cassettes, that wear of the teeth can be evenly spread out.

[zmudshark]

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-004/000.html

https://yarchive.net/bike/chain-wear.html

Thanks, always willing to learn.

Second link was dead, but first was very detailed. I'm assuming my Speedtech may be the most accurate compared to Park CC-2 or CC-3, or even CC-1, all of which I have on hand?


I do not have the resources to do as the article suggested.


"As of 2009/10, almost all commercial bicycle tools for measuring bicycle chain wear are inaccurate. This note explains why, and how to build an accurate tool."

[Greatestalltime]

Thanks, always willing to learn.

Second link was dead, but first was very detailed. I'm assuming my Speedtech may be the most accurate compared to Park CC-2 or CC-3, or even CC-1, all of which I[/I]

Doesn’t my park tool work ok


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dave]

What is right?

Side plates do not stretch. The increase in length is entirely due to wear between the inner plates and the pins. The distance between the outer plates and pins never changes, since the pins are press fit to the outer plates.

Roller wear has no effect on chain length (change in pitch).

Campy chains have never shown much elongation, but become worn out due to roller wear and side clearance wear. I've used one for 6,000 miles that had less than .25% elongation.

Tossing chains at 1500 miles isn't the best thing to do either, unless you're using cheap KMC x11.93 chains. I expect at least 3,000 miles from a Campy chain.

[MikeD]

Try https://yarchive.net/bike/chain_wear.html

[zmudshark]

Side plates do not stretch. The increase in length is entirely due to wear between the inner plates and the pins. The distance between the outer plates and pins never changes, since the pins are press fit to the outer plates.

Roller wear has no effect on chain length (change in pitch).

Campy chains have never shown much elongation, but become worn out due to roller wear and side clearance wear. I've used one for 6,000 miles that had less than .25% elongation.

Tossing chains at 1500 miles isn't the best thing to do either, unless you're using cheap KMC x11.93 chains. I expect at least 3,000 miles from a Campy chain.

Makes sense. I guess I shouldn't worry too much. I use nothing but 10s Campagnolo chains and rotate bikes, at least back when I could actually ride. Thanks for the detailed explanations.

John

Edit: Is the Speedtech better than Park?

[MikeD]

Makes sense. I guess I shouldn't worry too much. I use nothing but 10s Campagnolo chains and rotate bikes, at least back when I could actually ride. Thanks for the detailed explanations.

John

Edit: Is the Speedtech better than Park?


I have the Speedtech. They don't make it anymore. The Park CC-4 is better because it has a .5% stretch measurement, which is where you should change your chain, and I don't know where that relates to the Speedtech markings, which are new, good, fair, and replace. I've replaced a chain at the fair mark and got a skip on the cassette with a new chain.

[Dave]

One thing to keep in mind is that all cassettes will eventually develop new-chain skip on one or two of the most worn sprockets. A chain with only a few hundred miles of break-in use will not skip, where a new chain will. That's why I have 6 or 8 chains in a rotation, for two bikes. Once each chain has been used for 300-500 miles, it won't skip. Each chain can e used longer since they are not being tossed prematurely and the cassette will also last longer.

This becomes more important with 12 speed cassettes that aren't cheap.

[NHAero]

Can you please say a bit more about how you manage this process?

For example, I have two road bikes with 10 speed set-ups, one Shimano triple, one Campy 10. I have two road bikes with Shimano 11 speed set-ups. What would your method look like and how much record-keeping does it entail? I'd also be interested in what lube you are using, and which quicklinks. Since I switched to Squirt your approach would be less 'painless' since the chains are so much cleaner.

I only have one bike with an uber expensive cassette, the Pivot FS29er with 11 speed 10-42 SRAM XX1. $300 street price. Wondering if buying a second chain for that bike is the best use of your approach. I recently bought a spare large OneUp cog for that cassette, since it is aluminum and wears first, and can be changed out (have done that once already). And I was fortunate to get a Paceline deal on a complete XX1 drive train package - shifter, RD, and cassette - that's in the parts drawer, because I love that bike and don't see any need to replace it.

One thing to keep in mind is that all cassettes will eventually develop new-chain skip on one or two of the most worn sprockets. A chain with only a few hundred miles of break-in use will not skip, where a new chain will. That's why I have 6 or 8 chains in a rotation, for two bikes. Once each chain has been used for 300-500 miles, it won't skip. Each chain can e used longer since they are not being tossed prematurely and the cassette will also last longer.

This becomes more important with 12 speed cassettes that aren't cheap.

[Dave]

A chain rotation is simple, but if you have bikes that need different chains, then each bike needs it's own 3-4 chains. I put mine on a peg and use the first one on the peg, when installing a different chain. A chain that's just been removed, cleaned and relubed is placed at the back of the row, on the peg.

I use a homemade wax based liquid lube. I relube about every 3-4 rides and take the chain off about every 500 miles to clean the chain and swap to another. My bike computer has a second distance that I reset when I install a clean chain.

My lube is 4 parts paraffin to 1 part gear lube, with 3-5 parts naphtha/white gas/camp stove fuel. It makes a very clean lube. I usually melt the paraffin first, then add oil and pour the melted mixture into the solvent for quick dissolving.

Wipperman links are the easiest to use, but expensive and there is still no 12 speed model available. I use SRAM eagle 12 links for my Campy 12 chains and SRAM AXS 12 links for the AXS 12 chains that I also use with Campy 12.

[NHAero]

I like the Peg idea, thank you.

I'm envisioning a Big Leg Emma with chains draped on every tube :)

A chain rotation is simple, but if you have bikes that need different chains, then each bike needs it's own 3-4 chains. I put mine on a peg and use the first one on the peg, when installing a different chain. A chain that's just been removed, cleaned and relubed is placed at the back of the row, on the peg.

I use a homemade wax based liquid lube. I relube about every 3-4 rides and take the chain off about every 500 miles to clean the chain and swap to another. My bike computer has a second distance that I reset when I install a clean chain.

My lube is 4 parts paraffin to 1 part gear lube, with 3-5 parts naphtha/white gas/camp stove fuel. It makes a very clean lube. I usually melt the paraffin first, then add oil and pour the melted mixture into the solvent for quick dissolving.

Wipperman links are the easiest to use, but expensive and there is still no 12 speed model available. I use SRAM eagle 12 links for my Campy 12 chains and SRAM AXS 12 links for the AXS 12 chains that I also use with Campy 12.