OT: Environmental Oriented Jobs

[itsflantastic]

Hi folks,

I'm in the middle of apply to grad schools for Environmental Science/Policy. Just wondering if anyone here is in a related field and might have any wisdom to share with me! I'd be interested to hear what it is you do, how you like it, how you got there, etc. If you are in the field, feel free to PM me. I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

Rock on and ride on,

Dan


P.S.~
I like Bikes. Bikes are fun. If I didn't have a bike to ride, I'd have a lot less fun. Don't you like bikes too? Bikes are great.
(that's me wishing my CSI was built :crap: )

[shinomaster]

You could be a lumberjack?

[itsflantastic]

Lumberjack Song

I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay.
I sleep all night. I work all day.

Mounties : He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

I cut down trees. I eat my lunch.
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shoppin'
And have buttered scones for tea.


Mounties: He cuts down trees. He eats his lunch.
He goes to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays he goes shopping
And has buttered scones for tea.

Chorus : I'm (He's) a lumberjack, and I'm (he's) okay.
I (He) sleep(s) all night and I (he) work(s) all day.

I cut down trees. I skip and jump.
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars.

Mounties : He cuts down trees. He skips and jumps.
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing
And hangs around in bars?!

Chorus : I'm (He's) a lumberjack, and I'm (he's) okay.
I (He) sleep(s) all night and I (he) work(s) all day.

I cut down trees. I wear high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie,
Just like my dear Mama (or Papa in later versions)


Mounties : He cuts down trees. He wears high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra?!

Chorus : I'm (He's) a lumberjack, and I'm (he's) okay.
I (He) sleep(s) all night and I (he) work(s) all day.

Yes, I'm (He's) a lumberjack, and I'm (he's) ok-a-y.
I (He) sleep(s) all night and I (he) work(s) all day

[itsflantastic]

I do like scones.... hmmm

[bcm119]

As long as you have no misconceptions about starting salaries... I say go for it. Its a bit of a labor of love. If you're willing to be paid a little less to feel like you're "making a difference" in some miniscule way, then its a good career choice atmo.

[Karin Kirk]

I agree!
I'm in the geo/hydro/environmental geo business, although now I am in the education side of it, doing teaching and educational research.

There are jobs with various non-profits, environmental consulting type work (although that's more in the line of geotechnical and engineering - however that pays more), and teaching. The world of policy is fascinating, but I think it can also be really frustrating too.

One thing I have noticed is that an environmental science degree is by definition broad rather than deep. A degree in a specific field, like ecology, geology, geochemistry will be more valuable when it comes to jobs. I think this is not necessarily true in the policy realm though, where breadth is a good thing.

What schools/programs are you looking at?

[gdw]

Have you taken any geography courses? If you haven't, look into them. Environmental agencies and organizations are always looking for grads who have experience with the various GIS (geographic information systems) software programs. Here's a link you might find interesting:
http://www.esri.com/industries.html
ESRI is the industry leader and a sound working knowledge of their ArcInfo and ArcView software will open a lot of doors.

[Karin Kirk]

+1 - excellent point! GIS is a highly marketable skill!

[Simon Q]

I agree!
I'm in the geo/hydro/environmental geo business, although now I am in the education side of it, doing teaching and educational research.

There are jobs with various non-profits, environmental consulting type work (although that's more in the line of geotechnical and engineering - however that pays more), and teaching. The world of policy is fascinating, but I think it can also be really frustrating too.

One thing I have noticed is that an environmental science degree is by definition broad rather than deep. A degree in a specific field, like ecology, geology, geochemistry will be more valuable when it comes to jobs. I think this is not necessarily true in the policy realm though, where breadth is a good thing.

What schools/programs are you looking at?

KK, I would have thought this would have to be an area that we will shortly be forced to pay significantly more attention to? Maybe I live in hope but companies will surely at some point have to be much more accountable for their emissions and therefore more grads in relevant areas be needed?

[catulle]

I recently served as advisor for the thesis of a kid from Harvard. His degree is in environmental policy. He was hired right after graduation by a law firm in NY. I understand that he is being paid a significant amount of money. Of course, everything in NY is mega-sized. Nevertheless, he is very pleased with the money he is being paid. He is working as a researcher, and plans to eventually attend NYU for his law degree.

I also have a good friend who is an enviromental lawyer. He is in his early to mid-fifties. He is the chairman of one of the largest and most respected law firms in Washington, DC. An enviromental lawyer as head of a big DC law firm.

The world needs crusaders for the environment. Environmental policy in the US has been pretty much abandoned by the Brush government; I believe that soon there will be a turn around. Yours is a worthy cause. Go for it...!!

[bcm119]

Have you taken any geography courses? If you haven't, look into them. Environmental agencies and organizations are always looking for grads who have experience with the various GIS (geographic information systems) software programs. Here's a link you might find interesting:
http://www.esri.com/industries.html
ESRI is the industry leader and a sound working knowledge of their ArcInfo and ArcView software will open a lot of doors.
+2.
My background is in geography and my job now is GIS support for environmental research. Its a mix of cartography/map design, geographic analysis, data management and some light programming, so it engages my right and left sides of the brain pretty evenly. You have to love computers and be willing to keep up with quickly changing technology though.

[Simon Q]

I recently served as advisor for the thesis of a kid from Harvard. His degree is in environmental policy. He was hired right after graduation by a law firm in NY. I understand that he is being paid a significant amount of money. Of course, everything in NY is mega-sized. Nevertheless, he is very pleased with the money he is being paid. He is working as a researcher, and plans to eventually attend NYU for his law degree.

I also have a good friend who is an enviromental lawyer. He is in his early to mid-fifties. He is the chairman of one of the largest and most respected law firms in Washington, DC. An enviromental lawyer as head of a big DC law firm.

The world needs crusaders for the environment. Environmental policy in the US has been pretty much abandoned by the Brush government; I believe that soon there will be a turn around. Yours is a worthy cause. Go for it...!!


Well said, go for it itsflantastic.

[gdw]

Battelle?

[bcm119]

Battelle?
no, check your PM

[sspielman]

+1 - excellent point! GIS is a highly marketable skill!

Of course, in a few years, ANYBODY will be able to use ARCVIEW...at least the way things are going..a few versions ago, it was CUMBERSOME.
Also the advice to get specific, marketable skills is good. There are probably 10 people in the country who really get to make environmental policy....

[bcm119]

Of course, in a few years, ANYBODY will be able to use ARCVIEW..
And I'm not sure if thats a good thing, gis is the quintessential garbage in/garbage out tool.

[djg]

I also have a good friend who is an enviromental lawyer. He is in his early to mid-fifties. He is the chairman of one of the largest and most respected law firms in Washington, DC. An enviromental lawyer as head of a big DC law firm.

The world needs crusaders for the environment. Environmental policy in the US has been pretty much abandoned by the Brush government; I believe that soon there will be a turn around. Yours is a worthy cause. Go for it...!!

I guess he's at A&P?

So, it's not the typical case, but having an environmental law specialist prominent in a DC firm isn't that much of a stretch either. With the exception of Williams & Connolly -- essentially, although not exclusively, a litigation shop -- the big old DC firms (as well as good but less big ones) all tend to have significant regulatory law practices. A partner from such a practice with the right sort of practice (business) and the right personal ... whatevers can be influential.

As to what that entails ... well, it's not chiefly about crusading is it? I mean, while it's not necessarily (or mostly) to do with defending malfeasance, quite a bit of the business has to do with counseling large corporate clients on regulatory compliance issues (trying to nudge policy a little, etc.) and, for many, providing regulatory expertise relevant to corporate litigation. That may be both interesting and worthwhile, and one may, independently, be committed to the system within which this sort of counsel is given, but wherever your friend's sympathies may lie, he didn't get to be prominent in big firm management by crusading. I'm not criticizing, I'm just sayin' ....

So, another thing one might do is take a look at the EPA web site, and the usajobs web site, and try to have a look at the different sorts of jobs there are and the qualifications they call for. One needs to search across time, as current listings may be relatively limited in one way or another. Obviously there are private jobs, academic ones, etc., but the range of things at EPA (a darn large employer) may be a fair tour of the business.

[Karin Kirk]

There are probably 10 people in the country who really get to make environmental policy....

Yeah -- too bad there are about a zillion people who are in a position to make environmental policy but choose to ignore it.

I couldn't agree more that the world needs more sharp-minded leaders in the realm of environmental policy. I feel that these people will need a strong science background, since all of this (hopefully) rests on science. Did you know that the statement "sound science" was made up by anti-environment lobbyists? It's a subtle way to make people question science and to undermine the science that seems to favor a viewpoint different from your own.

As for "crusading," I agree with djg. On one hand, I am glad that there are crusaders out there who are on the same side I am. But I also think that the level-headed folks get more accomplished because their credibility is so much greater. Perhaps "crusading" is the wrong word here. It's more like you are committing your career for something that gives you a sense of purpose and pride.

The 70s must have been a great time to be in environmental policy, since much of our best policy was created then. Nowadays, it seems that economics and politics are more influential than the actual science in our present environmental policies.

But who knows, things may be poised to change. With more and more data supporting the existence of anthropogenic global climate change and the end of cheap oil at our doorstep, suddenly we are in dire need for some forward-thinking policy. I sure hope we get some!

Oh, BTW, all of this is IMHO :)

[catulle]

As for "crusading," I agree with djg. On one hand, I am glad that there are crusaders out there who are on the same side I am. But I also think that the level-headed folks get more accomplished because their credibility is so much greater. Perhaps "crusading" is the wrong word here. It's more like you are committing your career for something that gives you a sense of purpose and pride.
Oh, BTW, all of this is IMHO :)

Atmo, 2... :beer:

[landshark_98]

environmental jobs in law, policy and science, encompass a broad field. You have a lot of choices. But beware and pick wisely.

From my seat you can't have environmental protection without considering the economics, and the degree you give primacy to the economics determines largely where you are on the continuum, with black hat corporate lawyers, executives at one end, and the "crusaders" of the earth first type on the other.

I've worked as a private practice environmental lawyer in some of the top firms in Seattle. Not really what I would call protecting the enviroment; more like minimizing corporate liability most of the time.

I now run a non-profit environmental firm that represents everyone from national groups like Sierra Club and regional conservation groups to ranchers, hunters and fishers and rural municipalities, i.e. a large range of interests. Some think of us as crusaders, others think of us as middle of the road advocates, some think we are sell outs because we'll sit down and talk with industry.

So, its a diverse field. I suggest above all else you follow your heart and your passion. Working for interests that are not aligned with your personal beliefs is a recipe for unhappiness. Money won't make up for it.

Greg

[Louis]

Working for interests that are not aligned with your personal beliefs is a recipe for unhappiness. Money won't make up for it.

That's a good one! :)

I wonder how many people over the years have managed to mold their personal beliefs to match their job requirements. Especially the 60's generation - despite all those marches, all that Kumbaya'ing and all those mind-expanding substances it looks to me like the world continues to turn much as it did before...

[djg]

So, its a diverse field. I suggest above all else you follow your heart and your passion. Working for interests that are not aligned with your personal beliefs is a recipe for unhappiness. Money won't make up for it.

Greg

Sure, maybe. But unless the passion comes in zealous doses, one might focus more on the quality of the work itself. What is it that a given sort of environmental (or other) professional does each day, and under what conditions? Working against one's deepest beliefs or most heartfelt commitments may be depressing, but shouldn't be too hard to avoid (although, of course, an associate at Catulle's freind's firm may have to do a bit of work for big tobacco or walk, as those fumes help pay to keep the lights on at the death star over there by metro center). The thing is, working for one's beliefs or interests also has the potential to become depressing. I've seen it plenty--folks pick "issues" that they want to work on without thinking about the mechanics. When contemplating a career , whether in law and/or policy, or science, or engineering, or dancing with les Trocaderos, it really does pay to take a look at how the sausages are made.

[catulle]

(although, of course, an associate at Catulle's freind's firm may have to do a bit of work for big tobacco or walk, as those fumes help pay to keep the lights on at the death star over there by metro center). .

Oh, I thought you were not criticizing. Hard to hold it, huh...?

[djg]

Oh, I thought you were not criticizing. Hard to hold it, huh...?

Sorry 'bout that. I know some good folks over there and I do believe in the system within which they work (and think I may have some understanding of and sympathy for one facing the complex of reasons that can lie behind a choice to work in such a place). I have a particular dislike for the ciggie industry and a strong preference to avoid serving them, but I do believe that they are entitled to counsel.

[catulle]

Sorry 'bout that. I know some good folks over there and I do believe in the system within which they work (and think I may have some understanding of and sympathy for one facing the complex of reasons that can lie behind a choice to work in such a place). I have a particular dislike for the ciggie industry and a strong preference to avoid serving them, but I do believe that they are entitled to counsel.

As far as I am concerned, and I'm not a lawyer, they have done great work trying to get the US Army to clean-up thousands upon thousands of acres of land contaminated with unexploded ordnance, including chemical weapons. My friend graduated suma-cum-laude from Yale and is a hell of a decent and humble person. And not one to shy from a scuffle with the Pentagon, or the White House for that matter.

Prohibition is a PITA any way you look at it. The way I figure it, if you let people smoke tobacco, you might as well let them smoke anything else they please. Or ban them all. Level playing field, atmo. Hey, you get to ride on the Blue Ridge Mountains, I don't, so cut me some slack. :beer:

[pdonk]

Land Use / Urban Planning

We have an environmental planner on staff and conslt frequently with a conservation authority(ontario regulatory body).

At this stage in my career (atavistic regression) I can not recomend it to anyone, but I know some people enjoy it.