I hate "open" streets

[fiamme red]

I'm talking about streets that are closed to cars at this time in order to allow social distancing for pedestrians and cyclists as the weather gets warmer. They're called by a euphemism "open streets," because, as the car haters argue, when you close a street to car traffic it then becomes open to people (of course people in cars don't count as people).

Oakland recently closed 75 miles of streets to through-traffic, and the "livable streets" activists (i.e., car haters) like Transportation Alternatives and Streetsblog insisted that if NYC didn't follow the lead of a great city like Oakland, we'd risk becoming a second-rate metropolis. So Mayor de Blasio announced that he'd eventually shut down 100 miles of streets to traffic.

I was commuting on my bike today when I came across one of these "open streets," Berry St in Williamsburg, which is now closed for about 18 blocks. Every block had wooden barriers that blocked the entire width of the street, so that I had to ride on the sidewalk at each intersection until I passed the barrier. The sidewalks were entirely empty, and each block had no more than two or three pedestrians or joggers in the street.

"Open streets" are not a boon but an impediment to cyclists who are trying to get somewhere.

https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/pedestrians/openstreets.shtml

New York City is opening 40 miles of streets to allow for greater social distancing during the COVID-19 crisis, with a plan to expand to a total of 100 miles.

Open Streets are available daily, 8 am to 8 pm (unless otherwise noted) for pedestrians and cyclists to use the roadbed of the street while maintaining at least six feet of distance from others. Opening hours may vary by location due to NYPD staffing.

No through traffic permitted while Open Streets are in effect. Vehicle traffic is limited to local deliveries, pick-ups/drop-offs, necessary city service vehicles, utility vehicles and emergency vehicles only. These drivers are advised to be extremely cautious and to drive 5 MPH or slower.

[Burning Pines]

Sir this is a bike forum

[duff_duffy]

I’m actually interested in what people on forum think on this one. I love concept of bringing more bikes to the streets and what works/doesn’t work. Just my 2 cents.

[fiamme red]

I can imagine how much fun cycling through Berkeley will be like when streets have become seating areas for restaurants.

https://sf.eater.com/2020/5/14/21258980/berkeley-coronavirus-covid-19-jesse-arreguin-street-closures

While California’s guidelines for restaurant reopening don’t specify a specific slash in capacity, they do require social distancing measures between patrons and workers, which means that to make enough money to remain afloat, restaurants need way more space to serve diners. In response, officials across the Bay Area have discussed taking over street space for restaurant use — and now, Berkeley has put that discussion into action, as today it introduced legislation to fully close many of the city’s streets, repurposing them as seating areas for the city’s vibrant restaurant scene.

[C40_guy]

The challenge with open streets is that there is no traffic flow. D'oh. And pedestrians will be wandering around, not looking to see if you're bearing down on them at 15 or 20 mph.

Probably best to leave the open streets to the pedestrians...I think they're not really expected to be used as MUPs.

[cribbit]

The issue sounds like they're being set up by people who don't know or care how they're being used.

They could easily have better blockades that do not prevent cyclists and pedestrians from getting through.

[Heisenberg]

Sir this is a bike forum

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/021/267/swedish_chef.jpg

i heard long island is hiring

[fiamme red]

The issue sounds like they're being set up by people who don't know or care how they're being used.

They could easily have better blockades that do not prevent cyclists and pedestrians from getting through.Well, it wouldn't be so bad if they left an opening 5 feet wide so that cyclists could get through without having to use the sidewalk. But in NYC, they're just blockading the entire street.

[vincenz]

I can imagine how much fun cycling through Berkeley will be like when streets have become seating areas for restaurants.

https://sf.eater.com/2020/5/14/21258980/berkeley-coronavirus-covid-19-jesse-arreguin-street-closures


Would you prefer this instead?:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.today.com/today/amp/tdna181506

[johnmdesigner]

The problem is that all of the open street initiatives are under the control of the NYPD who hate cyclists and see it as a means to achieve overtime nirvana.

[Burning Pines]

The problem is that all of the open street initiatives are under the control of the NYPD who hate cyclists and see it as a means to achieve overtime nirvana.

bingo

[johnmdesigner]

Our Mayor is an utterly useless narcissistic dbag. What do you expect?

[jadedaid]

I feel somewhat similarly to you. On one hand I am a big fan of less car traffic in general so most of my cycling is actually much more pleasant. Riverside Drive on the west side is so much more pleasant than it usually is.

I agree on the point made about the lack of traffic flow - conversely the pedestrians are out of hand. The number of people who walk into the middle of street without looking or any sense of regard for traffic has risen to astounding levels. Park Ave is basically devoid of cars but I find myself having to work to avoid pedestrians. I have a new found sympathy with drivers if this is their experience with cyclists.

I've yet to come across a true closed street but I imagine it will be hell on a bicycle.

[Blue Jays]

A roadway entirely closed to vehicular traffic paradoxically encourages others to cross it all willy-nilly as if they are at a street fair or block party.

[Toddykins]

Take another street and let people who are cooped up in tiny apartments enjoy greater access to the outdoors - Get some perspective.

[XXtwindad]

I'm talking about streets that are closed to cars at this time in order to allow social distancing for pedestrians and cyclists as the weather gets warmer. They're called by a euphemism "open streets," because, as the car haters argue, when you close a street to car traffic it then becomes open to people (of course people in cars don't count as people).

Oakland recently closed 75 miles of streets to through-traffic, and the "livable streets" activists (i.e., car haters) like Transportation Alternatives and Streetsblog insisted that if NYC didn't follow the lead of a great city like Oakland, we'd risk becoming a second-rate metropolis. So Mayor de Blasio announced that he'd eventually shut down 100 miles of streets to traffic.

I was commuting on my bike today when I came across one of these "open streets," Berry St in Williamsburg, which is now closed for about 18 blocks. Every block had wooden barriers that blocked the entire width of the street, so that I had to ride on the sidewalk at each intersection until I passed the barrier. The sidewalks were entirely empty, and each block had no more than two or three pedestrians or joggers in the street.

"Open streets" are not a boon but an impediment to cyclists who are trying to get somewhere.

https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/pedestrians/openstreets.shtml

I don’t hate the cars, per say. Just some of the knuckleheads that drive ‘em.

[lavi]

Take another street and let people who are cooped up in tiny apartments enjoy greater access to the outdoors - Get some perspective.

Hear, hear. It's not like the other streets are exactly packed with cars. Seems like a cyclist would still have more clear traffic on normal streets.

Consider them pedestrian zones and....RIDE ELSEWHERE. It ain't that complicated.

Everything is nuts right now...why should municipal decisions be any ****ing different.

Pdx has had many pedestrian friendly streets/bike blvds for a long time. That makes difficult for a cars to use these streets unless a person lives on that street and thus needs to drive on it. That also means all the friggin crunchie people are out painting **** (flowers, yin yangs, etc with patchouli scented vegan paint curated by folks that haven't seen a shower or razors in a decade) in the intersections. I kinda like buzzing the morons...but I also just take 90% of the other streets not designated for these dip****s.

[Skenry]

A roadway entirely closed to vehicular traffic paradoxically encourages others to cross it all willy-nilly as if they are at a street fair or block party.

The road is closed to vehicular traffic and bicycles are vehicles.
Go another route.

[oldpotatoe]

They're called by a euphemism "open streets," because, as the car haters argue, when you close a street to car traffic it then becomes open to people
"Open streets" are not a boon but an impediment to cyclists who are trying to get somewhere.

People walking..why, particularly in NYC, do you think they really GAS about people on bicycles? Ratio of people walking to people on bikes, like anywhere...1000 to 1 or something??:)
Hear, hear. It's not like the other streets are exactly packed with cars. Seems like a cyclist would still have more clear traffic on normal streets.

Consider them pedestrian zones and....RIDE ELSEWHERE. It ain't that complicated.


What he said..

[terry]

Same reason I avoid bike paths like the plague-besides being boring just too many people, I’d rather take my chances with cars

[Johnnysmooth]

I’m actually a fan of open street initiatives and look forward to seeing more of it.
Agree, that it will not be easy for cyclists as people will wander, but far better than cars and their doors. Just get a nice friendly bell to ring.

Granted, the OP makes a good point about barriers - that would drive me nuts, but these are likely temporary until more permanent barriers are installed which hopefully will have pass-thru for bikes.

Speaking of which, rather than complain, get involved to help city plan these open streets to be bike friendly. I have found city policy folks are very appreciative of inputs from knowledgeable folks.

[oldpotatoe]

I’m actually a fan of open street initiatives and look forward to seeing more of it.
Agree, that it will not be easy for cyclists as people will wander, but far better than cars and their doors. Just get a nice friendly bell to ring.

Granted, the OP makes a good point about barriers - that would drive me nuts, but these are likely temporary until more permanent barriers are installed which hopefully will have pass-thru for bikes.

Speaking of which, rather than complain, get involved to help city plan these open streets to be bike friendly. I have found city policy folks are very appreciative of inputs from knowledgeable folks.

New York City....:eek:

[Mikej]

On the current traffic in my city - rush hour is gone, but the the local lakeshore routes are now packed with maniacs driving 20 over- peoples are not happy or something.

[zap]

Every block had wooden barriers that blocked the entire width of the street, so that I had to ride on the sidewalk at each intersection until I passed the barrier. The sidewalks were entirely empty, and each block had no more than two or three pedestrians or joggers in the street.


Is that legal in NYC......riding on sidewalks.

Or will that be a US$600 fine.

[fiamme red]

Talk about "open streets" started back in late March or early April when people seemed to crowd into NYC parks on nice days. The activists argued that if we wanted people to maintain social distancing, we'd have to give them more space for recreation by shutting down traffic on city streets (although the sidewalks of the city have never been emptier).

But there's a reason people crowd into parks: because they want to be around trees and flowers and grass, oases of green in a concrete and asphalt city. Walking or running down the middle of Berry Street in Williamsburg isn't quite a substitute for that. Runners and pedestrians will continue to flock to Central Park and Prospect Park and other green spaces despite the "open streets" in their neighborhoods.

The "open streets" advocates, who claim to represent both pedestrians and cyclists, have one goal: taking away space from cars. They couldn't care less if shutting down 100 miles of streets to traffic makes commuting by bike more difficult.

[Toddykins]

Does it really make your life so much more difficult to divert 30 seconds to Kent?

Opening any additional outdoor space for people right now is a good thing. Accept that ‘open’ streets means making it safe for your elderly neighbors to take a stroll or some young kids to ride in ten foot circles without worrying about cars.

Why on earth would you expect helping you achieve a commute KOM is the point?

Sometimes I am surprised by the lack of empathy among cyclists for pedestrians when we cyclists incessantly go on about mistreatment by drivers. A bit more respect of other ‘road users’ from all sides would solve virtually all disputes.

[fiamme red]

I feel somewhat similarly to you. On one hand I am a big fan of less car traffic in general so most of my cycling is actually much more pleasant. Riverside Drive on the west side is so much more pleasant than it usually is.

I agree on the point made about the lack of traffic flow - conversely the pedestrians are out of hand. The number of people who walk into the middle of street without looking or any sense of regard for traffic has risen to astounding levels. Park Ave is basically devoid of cars but I find myself having to work to avoid pedestrians. I have a new found sympathy with drivers if this is their experience with cyclists.

I've yet to come across a true closed street but I imagine it will be hell on a bicycle.Riverside Drive has truly been a pleasure to ride lately. I'm praying the city doesn't make it an "open street."

One rainy Sunday in early April, I went out to Prospect Park to do a few laps. There were very few cyclists, and the pedestrians were everywhere. One woman was running with a baby stroller while talking on her phone right in the middle of the bike lane. I haven't been there since (or to Central Park either). I'd rather not deal with the frustration and danger of avoiding unpredictable pedestrians.

The George Washington bridge path has been chaotic recently on nice days. I often see pedestrians there obliviously walking two or even three abreast. On the Manhattan and Williamsburg bridges, there are now lots of pedestrians walking on the side reserved for cyclists, and often two abreast.

I have a friend who had a very serious crash last year. She was doing laps in Central Park and a pedestrian darted into her path without looking. The idea that cyclists belong in the same space as pedestrians may work for Citi Bikers going 7 mph, but not for road cyclists going 15-20 mph.

[fiamme red]

Does it really make your life so much more difficult to divert 30 seconds to Kent?

Opening any additional outdoor space for people right now is a good thing. Accept that ‘open’ streets means making it safe for your elderly neighbors to take a stroll or some young kids to ride in ten foot circles without worrying about cars.

Why on earth would you expect helping you achieve a commute KOM is the point?

Sometimes I am surprised by the lack of empathy among cyclists for pedestrians when we cyclists incessantly go on about mistreatment by drivers. A bit more respect of other ‘road users’ from all sides would solve virtually all disputes.From now on, I'll take Bedford to N. 12th instead. I took Kent a few weeks ago, and I'd never do it again as long as we're supposed to be social distancing. Since it's a two-way bike lane, I had plenty of cyclists passing me within two or three feet.

For the purpose of strolling, the sidewalks are empty now. I don't get why walking down the middle of the street is so important.

I'm not trying to achieve a commute KOM. I just don't want organizations like Transportation Alternatives to speak for me when they say that cyclists demand "open streets."

[Toddykins]

So to summarise - Maintaining proper social distancing/access to the streets while on the bike for you is very important, but giving other people the opportunity to do so on an open street not so much.

I am sorry to come on so strong, but it strikes me as distasteful to bemoan an effort to provide a degree of comfort for the masses in the middle of the pandemic because it presents a very minor inconvenience to an individual.

Kudos, Transportation Alternatives!

[fiamme red]

So to summarise - Maintaining proper social distancing/access to the streets while on the bike for you is very important, but giving other people the opportunity to do so on an open street not so much.

I am sorry to come on so strong, but it strikes me as distasteful to bemoan an effort to provide a degree of comfort for the masses in the middle of the pandemic because it presents a very minor inconvenience to an individual.

Kudos, Transportation Alternatives!Despite what TA claims, "opening" the streets is essentially closing them to cyclists, except perhaps to children who want to ride in circles. I guess you'd call street fairs and festivals like San Gennaro "open streets," but they force me as a cyclist to make long detours.

I've been walking a great deal in the last two months. I've never had difficulty with social distancing on the sidewalks or in the parks.

What you call a "degree of comfort to the masses" is not demanded by the masses themselves (who often depend on car and truck deliveries for their food) but by the "livable streets" activists whose stated goal is to "destroy the car culture."

[Toddykins]

Profiteering street ‘festivals’ are an entirely different phenomenon than grass roots open streets activism. I agree the street festivals are an abomination.

I suppose the middle ground are some of the street plazas on broadway and the like, but on balance I think they have been positive.

I, for one, am totally supportive of destroying car culture - Its a terrible use of space in major cities.

[benb]

I hear you on the activists constantly activating for things that don't necessarily help or make sense and they don't care if anything they activate for is well thought out.

But it all boils down to NYC is crowded and will always be crowded and nothing anyone does is going to make it as fun as if you just moved somewhere that was actually good for cycling, you know, a place with less people.

How many people on this forum who don't live in NYC would say "I'd never ride in NYC, that's nuts!" ? There are lots of avid cyclists out in the rest of the country who would say that in real life. I'm not one of them, I've biked over on the NJ side in the urban area and would ride in NYC if I had some reason to do so, but I'll never live there and will likely never need to.

[martl]

Based on what the thread creator wrote, the thing that annoys him are not the "open streets" but the fact that they are so poorly implemented in his town that they can't be used conveniently by those, in this case: cyclists, that they were meant for.

This happens a lot, much bike infrastructure built in good faith is like that. It doesn't proof the root idea, which is: redesigning more assigning urban traffic space, is broken.

[Toddykins]

‘Open’ streets the world over are generally not meant for high speed continuous cycling so much as puttering along on a tricycle or citibike.

There truly is no issue here.

[Blue Jays]

My sense of what helps pedestrians, cyclists, and motorists to best coexist is nice clear predictability of their actions and behaviors.
I think I hear what the original poster is communicating. When we can predict what others are likely to do, traffic conflict is reduced.

[Old School]

delete, bad html from me (rookie)

[72gmc]

Open streets are fine. As an idea, they're great from my standpoint. This exceptional circumstance is a good reminder that streets need to be multi-use spaces.

We just aren't very good at doing it yet. We need to stick with it to get better.

[fiamme red]

Of course now "experts" are advocating making the "open streets" experiment permanent. The car haters will never let a good crisis go to waste.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/york-citys-open-streets-policy-permanent-fixture-experts/story?id=70616741

As a new normal takes shape in New York City under the novel coronavirus, experts in urban planning believe miles of open street for foot traffic will become a staple of the Big Apple even after the novel coronavirus pandemic ends.

Mayor Bill de Blasio recently said the city is aiming to open up 100 of the 6,000 miles of city streets for pedestrians. The idea is to create more space for people to walk around while maintaining social distancing, which proved to be a challenge on tight sidewalks.

Mitchell Moss, a professor of urban policy and planning at New York University, said the virus has "mobilized support for converting streets ... into an extension of the sidewalk for pedestrians or other activities."

"I think that where these streets are converted, if they're being well-used, they'll stick," Moss said...:crap:

[EDS]

Part of West End Avenue by my apartment is closed to vehicle traffic as part of the open streets program. It is good for giving kids more space to play outside. I certainly would not look to ride my road bike on those streets as it would not be safe, but that is an okay trade-off for me.

[lavi]

I'd just move. There are jobs lots of places. My wife is born/raised in NYC.

She now vows we'll never move to that **** hole. I am thankful.:banana:

I guess that's why we say "the West Coast is the BEST Coast.

But it does suck here too. Don't come. I hear Ohio is choice.

[fiamme red]

Part of West End Avenue by my apartment is closed to vehicle traffic as part of the open streets program. It is good for giving kids more space to play outside. I certainly would not look to ride my road bike on those streets as it would not be safe, but that is an okay trade-off for me.Riverside Park is only one block over. How crowded is it?

[EDS]

Riverside Park is only one block over. How crowded is it?

On a nice day, very crowded! Plus, I almost never ride on West End more than a block or two. Riverside drive is almost always a better option for north/south travel. For that matter, I rarely ride my bike on the west side bike path unless I am with my kids.

[pasadena]

Literally, the entire world is shut down to the point the entire oil industry is paying billions to have oil sit in storage.

People are dying, the streets are empty, and out of this hell - the one standout thing to happen is masses of people are outdoors, walking, cycling, and using exercise for sanity.

people truly will complain about anything.

dafuq

[raygunner]

Wait, are we riding on city streets now?

When did gravel stop being cool?

[Ozz]

...
but it does suck here too. Don't come. I hear ohio is choice.

+100

;)

[Mr B]

Wait, are we riding on city streets now?

When did gravel stop being cool?

In NYC, city streets are often gravel

[Dead Man]

"does this affect me?"

no -
yes -

if yea, does it really tho?

no -
yes -

if yea, but does it REALLY tho?

no -

life made easy, brought to you by a dead man

[lavi]

....
dafuq

Wait, are we riding on city streets now?

When did gravel stop being cool?

p(s)otd atmo :beer:

[oldpotatoe]

‘Open’ streets the world over are generally not meant for high speed continuous cycling so much as puttering along on a tricycle or citibike.

There truly is no issue here.

Yup..even in NYC

[Greatestalltime]

You’re supposed to move those barrels over. Then next time it’s free sailin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XXtwindad]

Talk about "open streets" started back in late March or early April when people seemed to crowd into NYC parks on nice days. The activists argued that if we wanted people to maintain social distancing, we'd have to give them more space for recreation by shutting down traffic on city streets (although the sidewalks of the city have never been emptier).

But there's a reason people crowd into parks: because they want to be around trees and flowers and grass, oases of green in a concrete and asphalt city. Walking or running down the middle of Berry Street in Williamsburg isn't quite a substitute for that. Runners and pedestrians will continue to flock to Central Park and Prospect Park and other green spaces despite the "open streets" in their neighborhoods.

The "open streets" advocates, who claim to represent both pedestrians and cyclists, have one goal: taking away space from cars. They couldn't care less if shutting down 100 miles of streets to traffic makes commuting by bike more difficult.

Sounds good to me. Where's the problem?

[johnmdesigner]

Sounds good to me. Where's the problem?

You can't understand how upsetting this is to the owners of all those cars with out of state plates who park on the street for free.

[pasadena]

:beer:p(s)otd atmo :beer:

[kmc143]

I totally agree with the statement below. Although I would love to have a 'totally open street' for cyclists only but the whole goal is for everyone to enjoy the streets devoid of cars.


‘Open’ streets the world over are generally not meant for high speed continuous cycling so much as puttering along on a tricycle or citibike.

There truly is no issue here.