Looking for Carrera frame info

[gbcoupe]

This just arrived today. Will probably be several weeks before I have it built.
Anyone know exactly what I bought? Curious about the tubeset.

Top tube has an aero pinch in the middle, ends are round.

Down tube is oversized and flared at the bottom bracket.

Seat tube is not shaped.

Stays are oversized. Fork blades as well, but don't think it's max.

Lovely looking frame. Hopefully it rides as well as it looks!

[sw3759]

looks like a Carrera Volans.going by memory but i think they used a mostly high end columbus tubing.
i still have one from the late 90's,painted red and white with chrome steel fork in a box that i think may have used nueron tubing but it may also just have the "podium" tubing sticker they used on alot of their frames

[gbcoupe]

It's an Andromeda model. Just curious about the tubing.

[Spaghetti Legs]

I believe mine to be a ‘95. EL-OS, ovalized at the BB. I have some nice bikes, but this one might be my favorite. My guess is you will be happy with that beauty!

[oldpotatoe]

Ask this guy

greg@redroseimports.com

[colker]

What a beauty. Love those Carreras.

[paredown]

My first thought was Columbus MS:

Found this on an old RBR post:
The MS set is the most unusual tube set I've ever seen and represents the beginning of when Columbus really started investigating how bicycle frames are stressed…or got bored pumping out the same old EL/OS tube sets everyday…or started smoking crack or…

Anyway, each of the MS tubes has a different shape. The non-drive side chainstay is triangular shaped and a larger flat-sided oval chainstay was used on the drive-side. The top tube is lemon shaped (not ovalized, it has distinct ridges down the sides of the tubes) with the long axis traversing the head tube. The down tube has tear drop shaped but designed to be mounted upside down (pointed edge facing the ground) relative to normal orientation of a tube this shaped. The seat tube is a long taper from 28.6mm at the BB shell to 26.4mm at the top tube end and designed to take a 25.4mm seat post.

The MS lugs are equally unusual, first in that they're shaped to accept the tubes of course, but also by the lug points and the BB shell in which the seat tube is oriented to tangent to the FRONT of the shell and the down tube which is oriented with the top end of the tube meeting the center of the BB shell, meaning the leading edge of the down tube is well off the tangent of the bottom of the BB shell. This makes the bottom of the BB shell look very much like the flat bottom of a rowboat.

Columbus had to be fairly daring to produce this set of tubes. Besides the dedicated tubing dies, they faced the high cost of the lug development and production as well since lugs were the preferred construction method of the day. They could have just released the tubes for use in fillet-brazed construction, but Columbus' designed orientation of the tubes at the BB shell wouldn't allow that method either. It is a surprisingly light tube and lug set being under 4 pounds with uncut full-length tubes and lugs, dropouts, and normal brazeons. For a bike world dominated by round tubes, it was an anomaly and looking back, ahead of its time. Didn’t matter though, it didn't last long. My understanding was that it was actually designed in the late 70's or early 80's, but not released until '86/87. It died quickly and it's very rare to see a MS tubed frame today.

Clearly your stays are different though

[gbcoupe]

Ask this guy

greg@redroseimports.com

Thanks, sent him an e-mail.

My first thought was Columbus MS:

Found this on an old RBR post:


Clearly your stays are different though

Not MS tubed for sure. That'd be nice though. I'll take one of those as well. :cool:

What a beauty. Love those Carreras.

Thanks.

[cmg]

"The non-drive side chainstay is triangular shaped and a larger flat-sided oval chainstay was used on the drive-side."

So are the chain stays on your frame shaped as suggested ? i thought doing that was a later development, didn't know it happened in the 80s.

[ultraman6970]

THats not an 80s model, thats early 90s before they come with one of the lightest production steel frames ever made which model name escape my mind as my own name. After that frame carrera kind'a stopped steel.

Im not famliar with the model but clearly to me the chain stays are EL OS or maybe Thron OS... the top tube i do not know if its a thing of the picture or not but the diameter and shape of the top tube are different?? like max ???

Seat stays are massive aswell... since i have a frame similar to that one, i dare to say that is columbus EL OS or a mix of tubes from different series. I have a concorde similar to that one.

THe issue with carrera and concorde around the same dates is that they used the same design pattern all over the lineup and swapped the colors combinations so is hard to tell what you have just because of the paint job. And doesnt surprise me either that there's no tubing or model sticker either :)

Darn man, u got a good one, looking for one of those OS carreras aswell, like the white and blue posted.

If you remove the headset be carefull because the front tube if oversized it has a sleeve inside to make it up so the 1 inch headset fits, so if you put the tool to remove the cup probably you will be hitting the sleeve for 5 hours w/o having the headset to move a single mm :D so before you put the tool put your finger inside and touch really well so you put the tool in the right spot.

[fignon's barber]

THats not an 80s model, thats early 90s before they come with one of the lightest production steel frames ever made which model name escape my mind

Pantani,Chiapucci, Roche rode the Carrera Zeus.

[gbcoupe]

"The non-drive side chainstay is triangular shaped and a larger flat-sided oval chainstay was used on the drive-side."

So are the chain stays on your frame shaped as suggested ? i thought doing that was a later development, didn't know it happened in the 80s.

No. I think the stays are straight up EL-OS. Just not sure about the rest of it. Guessing mid 90's. For sure no 80's.

THats not an 80s model, thats early 90s before they come with one of the lightest production steel frames ever made which model name escape my mind as my own name. After that frame carrera kind'a stopped steel.

Im not famliar with the model but clearly to me the chain stays are EL OS or maybe Thron OS... the top tube i do not know if its a thing of the picture or not but the diameter and shape of the top tube are different?? like max ???

Seat stays are massive aswell... since i have a frame similar to that one, i dare to say that is columbus EL OS or a mix of tubes from different series. I have a concorde similar to that one.

THe issue with carrera and concorde around the same dates is that they used the same design pattern all over the lineup and swapped the colors combinations so is hard to tell what you have just because of the paint job. And doesnt surprise me either that there's no tubing or model sticker either :)

Darn man, u got a good one, looking for one of those OS carreras aswell, like the white and blue posted.

If you remove the headset be carefull because the front tube if oversized it has a sleeve inside to make it up so the 1 inch headset fits, so if you put the tool to remove the cup probably you will be hitting the sleeve for 5 hours w/o having the headset to move a single mm :D so before you put the tool put your finger inside and touch really well so you put the tool in the right spot.

Top tube is round at the ends. Looks otherwise at some angles, but pretty sure round. Not a max shaped tube. It's slightly pinched in the middle, so about an 8" section is a little taller and more slender.

Thanks for the heads up on the head tube. This might explain why the lower cup was caked with frame saver. :eek:

[gbcoupe]

Got a reply from Greg @ RRI. Thank you oldpotatoe.

It's most likely a mix of Neuron and EL/OS tubing. The steel fork is from a later aluminum frame model. Should have a fully chromed fork. Yay! Another fork I need to keep an eye out for.

In the early 2000's, RRI bought all the remaining lugged Carrera frames and had them painted. This is one of them.

[ultraman6970]

So, they bought the whole stock of frames they had in the warehouse, which usually arent painted and got them painted before send them here... doesnt surprise me at all because they tend to do that. Viner did the same, they all the old stock of frames was sent here and they were painted by viner before being sent.

No matter the tubing the geometry of carrera and concorde is pretty much all the same all across the line up and besides tubing differences the bikes are super to ride. So sure this one will ride super nice aswell.

[ultraman6970]

This one from GB is probably 10 years after and the one im talking about used columbus steel MS with MS lugs and carbon threaded fork I believe. Carrera claimed was the lightest production steel frame. Not the same custom made than production... so i think columbus zona with megatubes and stuff... and we are talking that this frame was produced around 2004...

Wish i could remember the name :/



Pantani,Chiapucci, Roche rode the Carrera Zeus.

[parallelfish]

I believe mine to be a ‘95. EL-OS, ovalized at the BB. I have some nice bikes, but this one might be my favorite. My guess is you will be happy with that beauty!

That’s a Zeus, correct? I had one and in a short time rust started showing through the chrome on the seat and chain stays. Returned to Red Rose Imports and they replaced it with a Volans (the model had just transitioned from Zeus to Volans).

Same bike, but Genius tubing instead of EL-OS, minimalist lugs and the top tube at the seat cluster is fillet brazed rather than lugged (brazed to an unusual lug connecting the stays and seat tube).

Great bike - still have it. Same paint scheme as yours.

[Spaghetti Legs]

That’s a Zeus, correct? I had one and in a short time rust started showing through the chrome on the seat and chain stays. Returned to Red Rose Imports and they replaced it with a Volans (the model had just transitioned from Zeus to Volans).

Same bike, but Genius tubing instead of EL-OS, minimalist lugs and the top tube at the seat cluster is fillet brazed rather than lugged (brazed to an unusual lug connecting the stays and seat tube).

Great bike - still have it. Same paint scheme as yours.

Yes, not long after I got it, someone identified it as a Zeus when I’d thought it was Volans.

[paredown]

No matter the tubing the geometry of carrera and concorde is pretty much all the same all across the line up and besides tubing differences the bikes are super to ride. So sure this one will ride super nice aswell.

My understanding was that there was a common source for their similar DNA since neither Concorde nor Carerra built their own bikes--Bilatto and Ciocc are mentioned for Concorde, while I've thought that Bilatto might have build for all three--Concorde, Ciocc and Carerra...

[ultraman6970]

Will be really hard to know who actually made them, yes heard ciocc aswell, but who knows... even paletti and colnago built stuff for other people when needed :)

[gbcoupe]

Will be really hard to know who actually made them, yes heard ciocc aswell, but who knows... even paletti and colnago built stuff for other people when needed :)

Please tell me I didn't buy a Colnago. :no: I made a promise to myself years ago.

I'm going to say Billato.

[Web1111a]

I believe Careeras were made by Podium it

[gbcoupe]

I believe Careeras were made by Podium it

Does say by Podium. Had no idea that was a builder.

[ultraman6970]

All carreras say "podium 1" ... the funny part is that back in the day when the brand started (linked to carrera jeans) who knows exactly who made them, like a secret not secret type of thing.

For example I had a carrera karma, carbon, probably the best carbon bike I ever had, clearly was not asian made and the finish was 1st class. Sold that one because was tad big, never been able to find another one.

Colnago did some cielo california frames I believe. Some lemonds are bilatto other ones who knows because lemond got his stuff done with who ever was for the task at that minute and thats the reason there's no consistency in anything from the old european made lemonds.

Who ever made concorde IMO made carreras, the chrome finish is almost the same, darn chrome never fades.

[Web1111a]

In doing some research the frame building started in 1989 red rose imports has a history on the web site

[Spaghetti Legs]

My understanding is that the Podium shop is/was the builder for Carrera, and not contracted out. A Goggle search shows a lot of oblique references to this and the factory being co-located with the sales shop, but I couldn’t find any direct evidence such as pic of an Italian guy with a cigarette dangling from his lip building a bike while wearing a Carrera apron. Other than the liberal use of chrome, mine doesn’t share many features with my Bilato built Ciöcc from the early 90’s.

[paredown]

My understanding is that the Podium shop is/was the builder for Carrera, and not contracted out. A Goggle search shows a lot of oblique references to this and the factory being co-located with the sales shop, but I couldn’t find any direct evidence such as pic of an Italian guy with a cigarette dangling from his lip building a bike while wearing a Carrera apron. Other than the liberal use of chrome, mine doesn’t share many features with my Bilato built Ciöcc from the early 90’s.

The confusing thing to me though was that the glory days of Roche and company predated the establishment of the Podium/Carrera shop to actually build stuff, so I'm assuming that those earlier Carreras came from some other shop?

From what I can glean-the Podium shop was set up 1988/89 (depending on who you read):
"under the technical direction of Luciano Bracchi. Bracchi became well-known for his designs and product developments. The Carrera-Podium shop was the first workshop to join aluminum to rear stays to carbon. They were the first shop to work with ceramical aluminum and were the first Italian firm to build carbon frames onsite." (That's from ERA sports page)

The second comment is from the Podium page:
"Carrera was founded in 1989 by Davide Boifava, head of the prestigious Carrera Team. Located in Brescia, Italy as a custom frame workshop for the Carrera Cycling Team, their bicycles have quickly established the “Mark of Excellence” for discerning cyclists."

[Spaghetti Legs]

The confusing thing to me though was that the glory days of Roche and company predated the establishment of the Podium/Carrera shop to actually build stuff, so I'm assuming that those earlier Carreras came from some other shop?
."

The team was sponsored by the Carrera Jeans before riding Carrera made bikes, hence the sweet faux denim bib shorts. I’m not sure if before then, they rode other bikes with Carrera logo (a la Banesto Pinarello) or just other branded bikes. A quick search I did find Roche in Carrera kit riding a Battaglin aero funny bike.

[acorn_user]

I see you have a definitive answer. But the tubing you describe looks a lot like my Carrera Cassiopeia, which is made from Columbus Brain. The top tube pinches in the middle. Mine has Walther lugs though.

[gbcoupe]

I see you have a definitive answer. But the tubing you describe looks a lot like my Carrera Cassiopeia, which is made from Columbus Brain. The top tube pinches in the middle. Mine has Walther lugs though.

Was told that while most were Neuron, some had EL-OS tubes as well to use up stock. Certainly possible a brain tube was thrown in here and there. They weren't going to be making lugged frames anymore and used up the available stock.

[acorn_user]

Was told that while most were Neuron, some had EL-OS tubes as well to use up stock. Certainly possible a brain tube was thrown in here and there. They weren't going to be making lugged frames anymore and used up the available stock.

Yours has the all important air-brushed falcon though. I always reckoned those are worth 1.5mph :) (My cross bike has it and it makes me smile!)

[Spaghetti Legs]

This article was linked in another thread regarding the connection between Pegorretti and Carrera. Here’s the article. Scroll down for a small blurb on who was building them at the start

“Who were the principal frame builders, did you employ north Italian artisans?

Us! There was Luciano who was one of the Carrera team mechanics and one of the partners of Carrera. So Luciano learnt how to build frames and became the principal frame builder at Carrera, we then hired others who worked under Luciano. Practically because I was the only English speaking member of the team I became the guy who took over the commercial side of Carrera bicycles, so I was in charge of sales and purchasing.

From that beginning you obviously ramped up production not only building bicycles for the team but for the mass market as well.

We had three or four frame builders plus our own in house painting section. The Americans were the first to start building mountain bikes in aluminium and we were the first company to start building road bikes using aluminium.”

https://veloaficionado.com/blog/carrera-professional-cycling-team-part-two-that-shimano-guy

[gbcoupe]

Thanks for the link.

Pretty sure I'm going to be listing the Carrera here soon. Downsizing sucks. That said, my wife is fine with my keeping more than a dozen bikes. Really can't complain.

[tuscanyswe]

Got a reply from Greg @ RRI. Thank you oldpotatoe.

It's most likely a mix of Neuron and EL/OS tubing. The steel fork is from a later aluminum frame model. Should have a fully chromed fork. Yay! Another fork I need to keep an eye out for.

In the early 2000's, RRI bought all the remaining lugged Carrera frames and had them painted. This is one of them.

I have 2 carrera forks somewhere. Maybe later models tho but one could be chrome not sure as i cant remember. Believe they are both nos but i havent seen them in a while .)

[Spaghetti Legs]

Thanks for the link.

Pretty sure I'm going to be listing the Carrera here soon. Downsizing sucks. That said, my wife is fine with my keeping more than a dozen bikes. Really can't complain.

Oof- sorry about that one. I tell people if my basement caught on fire, the Carrera would probably be the first one I bring out, and there are some nice bikes in there.

[gbcoupe]

Oof- sorry about that one. I tell people if my basement caught on fire, the Carrera would probably be the first one I bring out, and there are some nice bikes in there.

I'd love to keep them all. The Carrera is a beauty and ride is quite nice as well. Still flip flopping though. Amongst the frames I already have listed. Carrera, 1 or 2 Paramounts, Mercian and maybe the Zanconato cross are slated to go.