Beware the overseas purchase

[sfscott]

In what will be considered just desserts to the LBS owners here, a cautionary tale.

I ordered a 64 frame from Mike at Maestro last year. I'd done so in the past and have ordered everything from small bike parts to shaving gear from merchants overseas without issue.

This time, UPS stalked me for $622.73 of duty on the purchase. I knew that was the risk, gritted my teeth and paid it.

This week, 16 months after the fact, I receive a notice from the state of CA that I owe 8.25% use tax. Seems UPS reported the import to Customs and Border Patrol who reported to CA, and per a 1935 law, ANYTHING imported to the state from overseas is subject to use tax. Talk about selective enforcement. The A$$hat at the state suggested I write my congressman. Not sure if it was a dollar threshold that triggered this or what.

And according to the public "servant" when you come back from an overseas trip and clear customs, you're responsible to pay state use tax on whatever you brought back.

So, yes, buying from Maestro, after currency and $1100 in taxes ended up being more expensive than going to someplace like Wrench Science or R&A and dropping my pants.

America sure is great again!

[flying]

America sure is great again!

Actually has always been that way & roughly anything over $800 gets taxed. (may be different amounts now)

Sure sometimes you dodge the bullets ;)

Surprisingly the best chance of dodging is with USPS

But I too have been nailed on a Colnago & a Look many years/decade + ago ( The Colnago coincidentally was from Maestro too)
So the import tax has been around

As far as travel & bring stuff home..not a problem if you remove tags & say its my used stuff

But yes overall taxation sucks ;)

PS: A nice Policy of Chain Reaction Cycles/ Wiggle is they pay all import Duties for you
*USA – Duty Paid on All Wheels, Frames & Bikes*
ALL Customs duties due on wheel, frame & bike purchases in the United States will be paid by Chain Reaction Cycles.

[jlwdm]

You are also required to pay a use tax to CA on any purchase brought into the state that you purchased online or in another state and did not pay sales tax on the purchase.

Jeff

[AngryScientist]

honestly, it seems the days of ridiculous deals on kit from overseas has largely dried up.

i've pretty much stopped buying anything from outside of the US these days. it's a colossal hassle waiting for purchases to arrive with uncertain shipping methods, hand-offs to various shippers and the wait time itself.

tires used to be the biggest offender, it used to be that you couldnt buy a good veloflex tire in the US for under 75 bucks, but you could get them for 40 in the UK. that's all changed now.

i feel better, especially these days spending my money with folks who are making a go at it as a US business too.

yes, the duty thing does suck, especially since you got hit well after the fact.

kind of like getting a speeding ticket in the mail 6 months after you drove the road. at the time you knew it was risky, but you thought you were in the clear.

we live, we learn.

where are the pictures of this bike??

[Llewellyn]

I also think the Golden Age for buying gear from overseas has passed. But at least the retailers over here seem to have got the message that the gouging that used to happen was bad for business and prices seem to be a lot more reasonable from some Aussie places these days.

But I stocked up on so much gear in the past that I don't need to buy much any more.

[pjbaz]

tires used to be the biggest offender, it used to be that you couldnt buy a good veloflex tire in the US for under 75 bucks, but you could get them for 40 in the UK. that's all changed now.


I always ride Contis and recently bought a set from Probikekit and they were here from the UK in less than a week, and for much less than I could find in the US, sadly.

[mj_michigan]

I regularly pay Michigan use tax with my tax return. I might be one of the very few, but, being typically on the order of $100 (yeah, I don't really buy expensive stuff from out of state), I justify it as a charitable contribution to the state.

[glassfan]

Just bought a set of Chorus brakes from Wiggle. Ordered on Monday, and they arrived in Las Vegas on Thursday. Shipping would have been free, but I paid $6 for expedited shipping.

[robertbb]

I also think the Golden Age for buying gear from overseas has passed. But at least the retailers over here seem to have got the message that the gouging that used to happen was bad for business and prices seem to be a lot more reasonable from some Aussie places these days.

But I stocked up on so much gear in the past that I don't need to buy much any more.

Agreed. I'm in Melbourne and while the getting was good I stocked up on sooo much Campy 11 stuff. Cassettes/chains of course, but also spare derailleurs and shifters for parts should the need arise. Should be able to ride for a decade without having to buy a thing.

[tuscanyswe]

This makes sense and is perhaps long overdue as it mades for some ridiculous scenarios.

Like for me for instance.

I could buy items from wiggle at 1200 usd and have it delivered to sweden where i live for free.

Or i could buy the same items at wiggle for 1000 usd and have it delivered to usa for free and then pick it up there or have my brother ship it back and save 20%

This is ofc since wiggle is not forces to sell with VAT if shipped outside of eu as that country is suppose to collect taxes once it reached the boarder customs but it never used to happen in USA until now then maybe.

Our customs here are very strict and u pay around 32% on any imports from outside eu based on the declared value.

[OtayBW]

Actually has always been that way & roughly anything over $800 gets taxed. (may be different amounts now)
It used to be that different components had different duty schedules. Has that changed? I've brought in (or ordered) frames and other components that were duty-free, or at variable rates, depending on the component. Sales tax is another matter....

[Veloo]

Call me anal but I started tracking my online orders in 2017 in a spreadsheet to see if I was winning the tariff game and also see what transit times were.

I'm showing 5 times I got dinged out of 20 orders. This is up in Canada.

[charliedid]

In what will be considered just desserts to the LBS owners here, a cautionary tale.

I ordered a 64 frame from Mike at Maestro last year. I'd done so in the past and have ordered everything from small bike parts to shaving gear from merchants overseas without issue.

This time, UPS stalked me for $622.73 of duty on the purchase. I knew that was the risk, gritted my teeth and paid it.

This week, 16 months after the fact, I receive a notice from the state of CA that I owe 8.25% use tax. Seems UPS reported the import to Customs and Border Patrol who reported to CA, and per a 1935 law, ANYTHING imported to the state from overseas is subject to use tax. Talk about selective enforcement. The A$$hat at the state suggested I write my congressman. Not sure if it was a dollar threshold that triggered this or what.

And according to the public "servant" when you come back from an overseas trip and clear customs, you're responsible to pay state use tax on whatever you brought back.

So, yes, buying from Maestro, after currency and $1100 in taxes ended up being more expensive than going to someplace like Wrench Science or R&A and dropping my pants.

America sure is great again!

Yeah all those rules and taxes, that's for other people not you...

[billspreston]

You really need to keep an eye on the courier in these cases as they will often mis-categorize the duty category (always into a higher rate, of course). The HTC Code in the US in this situation is "8714.91.20.00 Frames And Forks, And Prts For Bicycles Etc." and the duty rate is 3.9% over $800. If this happens in the future, there is a process for disputing the duty rate. I've gone through this with FedEx twice and have had the duty rate adjusted to the correct value. If you've already paid you're probably SOL, but if you look at your customs/brokerage paperwork from UPS I suspect the HTC code is incorrect.

[paredown]

You really need to keep an eye on the courier in these cases as they will often mis-categorize the duty category (always into a higher rate, of course). The HTC Code in the US in this situation is "8714.91.20.00 Frames And Forks, And Prts For Bicycles Etc." and the duty rate is 3.9% over $800. If this happens in the future, there is a process for disputing the duty rate. I've gone through this with FedEx twice and have had the duty rate adjusted to the correct value. If you've already paid you're probably SOL, but if you look at your customs/brokerage paperwork from UPS I suspect the HTC code is incorrect.

Yes--this is worth pursuing. When I was buying more, I would look up the customs section that applied and get the seller to display it prominently on their invoice and shipping tags--for me then it was computer stuff and bike stuff.

I believe that there is an appeal process if they have wrongly applied the HTC rate--I consider these sorts of pursuits worth doing just to annoy the dicks that get this stuff wrong.

[sfo1]

I used to buy all consumables overseas (tires, chains, cassettes, etc) but that price gap is gone. I've found way better pricing from US vendors over the past year. Plus, no sales tax from the smaller shops; spend over $100 and they throw in free shipping.



I always ride Contis and recently bought a set from Probikekit and they were here from the UK in less than a week, and for much less than I could find in the US, sadly.

[billspreston]

Yes--this is worth pursuing. When I was buying more, I would look up the customs section that applied and get the seller to display it prominently on their invoice and shipping tags--for me then it was computer stuff and bike stuff.

I believe that there is an appeal process if they have wrongly applied the HTC rate--I consider these sorts of pursuits worth doing just to annoy the dicks that get this stuff wrong.

Yep, I now always request the HTC code to be displayed prominently on the shipper invoice to avoid this dance. The appeals process in my case took several months but was pretty painless. Both times I was classified in some sort of ‘other’ HTC categorization and charged 11% duty instead of 3.9%.

[charlieclick]

For those of us in the UK, and buying anything from the USA (or outside of Europe) it's a few percent import duty and then 20% VAT on top of the total cost, including shipping.

Bit off a killer.

[9tubes]

I have purchased nearly all of my consumables (clothing, chains, tires, etc.) internationally for over a decade. It seems there has been a trend from UK retailers (PBK, Wiggle) to Irish (Chain Reaction) then I've gone to Germany and France.

I don't know what's driving the migration of best price/service. I'll guess that it was language dependent. Most French and German websites weren't used to dealing with Americans (or aimed at Americans, e.g., their sites weren't in English) but that seemed to change a couple of years ago. I suspect Italy will be next.

I have noticed that the shipping from UK/Ireland has slowed down. Shipping from Germany can be blazing fast, since Deutsche Post owns DHL and DHL has great service to Seattle. Once I ordered on a Tuesday and it arrived Friday that week. That was regular free shipping on a $100 order.

[jeho]

I used to buy all consumables overseas (tires, chains, cassettes, etc) but that price gap is gone. I've found way better pricing from US vendors over the past year. Plus, no sales tax from the smaller shops; spend over $100 and they throw in free shipping.

this is definitely the case now a days + also things are taking much longer thru customs buying overseas

[flying]

It used to be that different components had different duty schedules. Has that changed?

I remember it was that way when I was staying in Asia...each item has its own schedule.

But for USA all I ever got nailed on was Frames so not sure
Probably because in US value has to be pretty high to get nicked at all.

Overall I think we US Citizens have it quite good & surely better than SEA & EU import tax wise

[paredown]

I remember it was that way when I was staying in Asia...each item has its own schedule.

But for USA all I ever got nailed on was Frames so not sure
Probably because in US value has to be pretty high to get nicked at all.

Overall I think we US Citizens have it quite good & surely better than SEA & EU import tax wise

Agreed--the most meticulous (and annoying) were the Brits--at least when I was there as a grad student. I still get annoyed when I think about paying duty on a little care package from a friend in the US--total contents were one small container of maple syrup and a couple of other food items, and I think they dinged me a few pounds for duty--not trivial when that's your pocket money for the week...

[Gsinill]

This is why I will never buy anything from overseas that will be delivered with either UPS or FedEx.

[OtayBW]

I remember it was that way when I was staying in Asia...each item has its own schedule.

But for USA all I ever got nailed on was Frames so not sure
Probably because in US value has to be pretty high to get nicked at all.

Overall I think we US Citizens have it quite good & surely better than SEA & EU import tax wise
It actually is still pretty much variable as far as I can see.

E.g.,
Hubs, free
Spokes, 10%
Derailleurs, free
Pedals and cranks, 8%
Go figure.

I once carried a BMC frame into JFK coming back from Switzerland and I declared it, but the guy didn't know what duty to assign (he tried looking it up). He was a pretty friendly guy, so he just said "How about $50.00"?. Done! :cool:

[msriddle]

When purchasing higher price items that are being sent into US, if possible, request DHL.

Avoid UPS & FedEx.

In general the price delta has been significantly minimized over the past years. But so has tax free purchasing online in general. eBay has been charging tax for a year or so now. Even online retailers that don’t own brick and mortar in your state charge state tax now. Hell PBK now charges US state tax.

You can still find some deals but it’s definitely not 2012 anymore.

As a final note, Maestro, who I as well purchased a C-50 from in 2006 has not been a good place to buy a Colnago from for over 10 years.

You can still get a great deal on Colnago buying from Italy and shipping it in on DHL.