Semi-OT: Chrysler Pacifica

[p nut]

We currently have a Sienna. We bought it because it was the only minivan with AWD. Now, there is a new entrant, Pacifica. AWD available in 2021.

I love minivans, especially for cycling because they just swallow everything—bikes and all. But one thing I hate is removing the heavy second row seats when we’re packing in bikes or cargo. I’d been jealous of Pacificas with the stow n go seats. Now I can have my cake and eat it, too.

But I have no experience with Pacificas. Those of you who have/had one, care to comment? Fit and finish? Reliability? The 3.6 should be solid, as it’s used in just about every FCA vehicle. Not sure about the rest of the vehicle. Thanks.

[Blue Jays]

Rented a fairly loaded one for a bicycle vacation and it was truly superb.
The floor is perfectly flat and I must say I marveled at that engineering.
Nice controls. Comfortable ride. Seems like a reasonable candidate.

[GregL]

I can't speak directly to the Pacifica, but I have 20+ years experience with Chrysler minivans. We've owned 1999 and 2007 Grand Caravans and a 2012 Chrysler Town and Country. Sadly, reliability has gone down over the years. The 1999 Grand Caravan had just one unscheduled maintenance problem in 120,000 miles. The 2007 Grand Caravan had three unscheduled maintenance problems in 75,000 miles. The 2012 T&C has had so many problems that I have lost count over 85,000 miles. My observations on the 2012:

- There was a recall on the engines for cylinder head leaks. We had this occur prior to the recall, but Chrysler covered the repair under warranty.

- Brakes are wimpy and suffer badly in salty environments. They need to be disassembled, cleaned, and lubricated twice each year to have any hope of lasting a reasonable lifespan.

- You need to own an OBD-II scanner and have a good knowledge of auto mechanics to keep these vehicles on the road without going broke.

- The sliding door wiring harnesses are prone to shorts. Make sure that you watch the doors close prior to walking away from the vehicle.

I know that none of these issues may be applicable to the Pacifica, but my faith in Chrysler engineering has been lost. If I didn't work on this car myself, it would have cost me thousands of $$ in additional maintenance costs.

Greg

[paredown]

I seem to recall the first gen Pacifica had a substantial dose of MB tech (as did the Crossfire) and was considered a crossover/people hauler. I thought they were cool.

Second gen--more like a mini-van--I have not read very much about them. It sounds as though they are a reworking of the Chrysler van--so I will be interested in what people have to say...

[azrider]

- You need to own an OBD-II scanner and have a good knowledge of auto mechanics to keep these vehicles on the road without going broke.

I know that none of these issues may be applicable to the Pacifica, but my faith in Chrysler engineering has been lost. If I didn't work on this car myself, it would have cost me thousands of $$ in additional maintenance costs.

Greg

Greg really nails it here. Chrysler quality has really tanked over the last couple decades and this is coming from a guy who's Aunt/Uncle owned a Jeep/Eage/Dodge dealer ship for 40+ years. Even my Uncle would attest to poor quality.

They had a Pacifica as a Lake car and it was the running joke in the family for years. It was always broken down and always having some sort of issue and my Uncle always always kept OBDII scanner in car. I find it hilarious Greg mentioned that in his post.:p:p

[cmg]

here's a Scotty Kilmer video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZfCISWSw5E

he's not a fan of Chrysler.

[wallymann]

same here, in ft-lauderdale just before covid lockdown.

really nice interior appointments.

Rented a fairly loaded one for a bicycle vacation and it was truly superb.
The floor is perfectly flat and I must say I marveled at that engineering.
Nice controls. Comfortable ride. Seems like a reasonable candidate.

[azrider]

here's a Scotty Kilmer video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZfCISWSw5E

he's not a fan of Chrysler.

"REVVVVVV UP your engines"...........love me some Scotty :p:p:p:p

[mtechnica]

You'd be better off keeping the sienna.

[dave thompson]

No experience with a Pacifica but we’re looking at one now. We’ve had 2 Chrysler Town and Country mini-vans, a 2011 that we put 77,000 miles on before it was killed in a head-on accident in Mexico. That crash totally destroyed both cars but my Chrysler saved my life. I literally walked away with very minor injuries, the other driver spent 6 weeks in hospital. After the accident we immediately bought a 2013 Town and Country which now has 110,000 miles on it including lots of miles in Mexico.

What we like about the Chrysler mini-vans is the Stow-and-Go method of having the center and rear seats fold into the floor which offers a ‘slick’ interior. We can carry 3 people, their bikes and all their gear inside.

We use our vans for everyday use as well as long distance travel for bike rides or when we used to live in Mexico during the winter. The van is comfortable, easy to “live in” during those long trips and on the open road 27~28mpg was pretty normal with 30mpg as a high.

Now we’re waiting now for the health events to subside and have a serious look at the Pacifica.

[robt57]

We had a Town and Country with Stow and Go seats. Loved it! That was worth the price of admission alone. Are the Pacifica vans Stow and go? And I'd say hardly a mini van if not the short wheelbase one. I could fold floor flat in 30 seconds and put a bunch of 4x8 sheets in and close the door.

Our was 2WD and a bit tough on fuel. We went CRV AWDs since and have A LOT LESS interior space.. but avgs 27-8 MPG as a local daily. I have a Aluminum Trailer for the 4x8 sheets, and more as far as loosing the interior space.

[estilley]

Rumor has it the transmission of my neighbor's 1990s Grand Caravan fell off while they were driving

[benb]

We're constantly renting mini-vans on every vacation we take.

I would never buy a FCA minivan, I'd get a Hyundai or Kia first.

When we get a Toyota rental it feels like a Rolls Royce compared to the FCA ones. Same thing with a Honda, although I don't think I've ever seen an Odyssey rental, but we looked at them to buy. The Hondas are too expensive IMO though, I like the Toyota better.

Every little detail is just so much better. Driving dynamics, gas mileage, performance, everything in the interior.

The UConnect in-dash system in the Dodges right now is utterly horrific to use, and it's also the system that got hacked to the moon to the point hackers could have crashed your car over the internet. And I don't mean crash the computer in the car, I mean *crash* the car.

It's like you can still buy a 1980s car, that's how bad the FCA products seem to me.

It's the only thing we can generally rent but we're always seemingly getting an FCA minivan and it's got < 10k miles and we're driving around worrying it's going to break down even though it's brand new.

The one we rented in February the trunk trim started falling apart. Probably didn't help that it was a rental so was getting way more luggage loaded in and out of it, but it had like 8k miles on it. We always feel like we need to keep our kid from touching anything in the interior cause we're worried he's going to break parts off if he touches buttons, dash, etc..

[biker72]

Consumers Reports gives the Chrysler Pacifica very poor ratings for reliability.

[Jaybee]

I've got a Sienna also, though not the AWD version. I agree that it's one big detriment is handling the middle seats (which was infinitely worse when I had carseats in those spots), but it's light years better in every other way than my MILs Pacifica.

I think the Odyssey, the KIA whatever and maybe the Hyundai all have fold flat middle seats. I'd go there before I'd ever go Chrysler.

How important is the AWD to you? I haven't found an on-road situation my FWD with snow tires can't handle, and that includes Berthoud Pass in a blizzard.
If I'm on a non-paved surface and starting to need real clearance, then I need a different vehicle than a minivan altogether.

[azrider]

Oh and btw.....if “swallowing everything” is your primary objective you aren’t necessarily limited to “just” minivans 😉😉

[C40_guy]

Take a look at the VW Atlas. More SUV, but pretty roomy. I rented one recently, and while I like my SUVs to be a *lot* more sporty, this one wasn't terrible. :)

[benb]

Take a look at the VW Atlas. More SUV, but pretty roomy. I rented one recently, and while I like my SUVs to be a *lot* more sporty, this one wasn't terrible. :)

To be fair if you want to transport bikes inside there's pretty much no SUV on the market that can come close to any of the mini-vans is there?

Fold flat rear seats + 3rd row seats in any of the mini-vans and you can literally roll four or five 61cm size road bikes right into the back of the mini-van without taking any wheels off or lowering any saddles.

You can easily throw 3 bikes in the back and still have one of the middle row seats up for the 3rd person as well. It really is an area where mini-vans are incredible.

If I'd bought a mini-van instead of my Subaru Outback the amount of time saved on not putting my bike on the rack would be enormous after 8 years of probably putting the bike on the roof 100+ times a year. I usually need to do that because I've had a child car seat installed in the middle row. If I take the front wheel off my road bike I can fold down half the seat and throw the bike in without having to uninstall the child car seat but I can't do it with a bike with fenders and it is fiddly compared to a minivan.

But that's the price I've paid.. didn't want the FCA minivans, and the Toyota or Honda minivans could easily have been 25%-30% more expensive than the Outback.

[C40_guy]

Oh and btw.....if “swallowing everything” is your primary objective you aren’t necessarily limited to “just” minivans ������������

Well...I was able to get a 10 speed road bike into the backseat of my Volvo, and i didn't even need a sawzall...

Below is a photo of the car...I didn't have the presence of mind to take a photo...it was long before we had cameras in our pockets. I did, eventually, have the presence of mind to get an actual wagon to carry stuff... :)

[p nut]

Thanks all. Small sample, but it seems reliability is questionable.

Our Sienna has been a good vehicle. Although it only has 35k miles on it now. No real issues (couple rattles I can’t track down).

Two other nit picks about the Sienna:
- Crash test isn’t great. Small overlap received Acceptable/Marginal. Pacifica was Good/Acceptable.
- No spare tire. Rear drive line gets in the way so they left it out. Instead, run flats that ride like a bag of rocks came stock. They also wore out in 17k miles. Good riddance. Now we have AAA and for long road/camp trips, I throw in a full-size tire in the back. Not very convenient but better than getting a flat and waiting for hours for a tow. I am unsure if the Pacifica AWD will come with a spare (doubtful as it would run into the same issues).


How important is the AWD to you? I haven't found an on-road situation my FWD with snow tires can't handle, and that includes Berthoud Pass in a blizzard.
If I'm on a non-paved surface and starting to need real clearance, then I need a different vehicle than a minivan altogether.

AWD is a must have. I did the snow tire thing on FWD and RWD cars. They definitely make a difference. But nowhere near the traction and the ability to keep the car going straight, especially on steep hills. Going up to ski resorts, getting caught in a snow storm in the canyons, etc. Not fun in 2WD vehicles, even with studded snow tires.

And I’ve been known to get off the track with the Sienna. Over 6” of ground clearance isn’t bad and can take on some tougher roads! (Yeah, no skid plates so I don’t get crazy).

[azrider]

To be fair if you want to transport bikes inside there's pretty much no SUV on the market that can come close to any of the mini-vans is there?

Fold flat rear seats + 3rd row seats in any of the mini-vans and you can literally roll four or five 61cm size road bikes right into the back of the mini-van without taking any wheels off or lowering any saddles.

You can easily throw 3 bikes in the back and still have one of the middle row seats up for the 3rd person as well. It really is an area where mini-vans are incredible.

SUV - check
Fold down middle seats - check
Stow away third row - check
can fit 3 (58cm) bikes without taking front wheel off - check

[p nut]

To be fair if you want to transport bikes inside there's pretty much no SUV on the market that can come close to any of the mini-vans is there?

Nope, none. Not “pound for pound” anyway. If you’re comparing to a Yukon XL, space may be similar (although the van has more headroom). But every day drivability suffers with the big SUV.

[azrider]

Nope, none.

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p (read above post)

[nesteel]

My brother in law and his wife owned one. Got totaled in a rollover crash by a drunk driver. He and his son came through with no injuries.
Insurance company bought them another one.
They proceeded to sell off the Chrysler van they owned as a second car and replaced it with another Pacifica.
I think they're fans.

[mtechnica]

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p (read above post)

The cargo area is still smaller than most mini vans and I’m sure it gets worse gas mileage, just saying.

How is reliability on Mitsubishi anyways? Gotta be better than a Chrysler I hope.

[azrider]

The cargo area is still smaller than most mini vans and I’m sure it gets worse gas mileage, just saying.

How is reliability on Mitsubishi anyways? Gotta be better than a Chrysler I hope.

C'MON......nobody said nothin bout gas mileage. I"M OUT :p:p:p

The one pictured is my '06. That's the last year Mitsu shipped these to the states. I have another one which is a '97 and I would hop in either one today and drive them to Alaska without hesitation. The biggest thing about Mitsu's are the high maintenance schedules they require. If you keep up with that and are regular about oil changes they are just as reliable as any Honda or Toyota on the road.

Prior to owning a Mitsu I always just assumed they were junk. Now after owning two, I'm on the look out for a third.

[p nut]

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p (read above post)

Yeah, they’re nice. I almost bought a Montero years ago. Underrated SUV that is pretty capable off road.

But cargo space still pales in comparison to a minivan. I just looked up the stats. 2006 Montero has a max cargo capacity of 92 cu ft. Sienna (also from 2006 to be fair) has 148 cu ft. And surprisingly the Sienna has more payload. Head room, leg/shoulder room, just can’t beat a minivan.

Also, I believe Mitsu used to supply engines to Dodge back in the day. They were known to be quite bulletproof.

Anyway, not interested in SUV/CUV’s.

[robt57]

Mini van probably has more room than you need for bikes @ a great MPG cost IMO. Our T&C FWD averaged about 10MPG less than the AWD CRV gets, FWIW.

My 2017 CRV with the middle seats folded fits all my 60ish bikes laid down flat, fork straight, no door hit. Towel ties to the back of the drivers seat so I don't transfer dirt from bike tire upon stops or extra thrust putting the bike in.

I occasionally lay a u-haul moving blanket over and wife's bike on top for two bike travel. I can un-flat/fold the middle seat for passengers in 25 seconds, but they live down pretty much.

The 2015 CRV it replaced was not nearly as space friendly due to the way the seats folded and was shorter, avoid unless you have small bikes.

I also have a folding [wheel loop] bike rack I keep under a moving pad so when I lay a bike on top.. well.. it is padded. I almost never use the rack. The rack I modded to remove most of the steel I could with Alloy tube/channel, it is 16lb with two wheel loops, easy to manage, and takes less than a minute to attach, and then less than a minute to attach a bike. The second set of wheel loops is in the garage and almost never gets used except for trips, remember those? When you need space inside for luggage etc.

[vqdriver]

I've never owned a Chrysler so cannot speak to their historical reliability but I definitely get the bad taste a problematic car can leave.

Having said that we are close with a few families that jumped on the Pacifica when it was released and i have driven it plenty. Obviously they are family haulers and used for all manner of road trips and vacations with tons of gear and luggage and bikes etc. None have complained about reliability with this model, and I dont know how good chrysler is with running updates but suspect they've probably addressed whatever growing pains there were.

Features are abundant and they obviously workshopped the crap out of this car when they originally designed it. Stow n go, dual headrest monitors, switch work and control layout, phone integration, etc.. they love this stuff and as an odyssey owner I want those features too.

But... fit and finish is lacking. Panel gaps uneven, doors rubbed, weather seals unseated, mysterious rattles arose, etc.. even the paint turned out to be unevenly applied which boggles the mind because that has to be done by robots.
Simply doesn't compare to the segment leaders (Sienna and odyssey) . Most costly repair was a sliding door motor which failed on cue a month after warranty expired. So far I haven't heard of engine or transmission problems tho they all have noticed gas mileage getting worse over time.
One nearly universally hated "feature" is the gear selection knob

[donevwil]

Nothing like reading car reviews and opinions from people who've neither owned nor driven the vehicle, but as we all know opinions are like something-holes............. :fight:.

I own a '20 Pacifica which replaced my '01 Grand Caravan which replaced my '95 Caravan, all were exceedingly reliable, but I take care of my cars. Primary use is road trips with wife and occasionally friends often with bikes which are always inside.

The Pacifica is many levels more refined than my previous vans. I was looking for exactly, or at least close to, the features I wanted without those I didn't so that meant up optioned mid trim level. I bought a Touring L with many of the L Plus features and a couple from the Limited. I wanted leather, 8-way driver and passenger seats, large dash display, 20" wheels, S package. Didn't want moon roof, vacuum, pwr & heated rear seats, entertainment system.

After initial research front runners were the Pacifica, Odyssey and Sedona. I spent a long time looking for relatively low mile used, but the cost benefit over new was minimal and often had little or no warranty left. When the search turned to new the test drives turned serious. The Pacifica handled the best, had the most logical and appealing instrument layout, was the most comfortable (driver and passenger seats, I'm 6'5", wife is 5'11") and looked the best. Both my wife and I liked the Kia, but gas mileage was atrocious compared to the Pacifica and Odyssey. Featured as desired the Odyssey was $10-15k more.

The only area the Odyssey got the nod is in implementation of the 9 spd ZF tranny (same in both vans), shift points are more fluid and driver has more downshift control. That was my primary concern with the Pacifica, but it's proven not to be an issue.

I love the van, granted I'm up to a whopping 2200 miles since we had to cancel all of our road trips this year. The 2020's are widely regarded as very refined, reliable and consistent in fit and finish. The issues the Pacifica platform has experienced are focused on the 2017 introductory year and early into 2018.

Did you verify the AWD will have stow-and-go seats? A drive shaft needs to go somewhere, I'm wondering, as with the hybrid, if stow-and-go is forfeited with AWD?

[robt57]

BTW, I'd ad: I've been living outta the Metropolis life for 20 years.
I mention this as to parallel parking skills that evaporated a long time ago. I can back up a trailer into a narrow spot 1st try [usually], but parking the car by the curb...

Moral of all that: get a backup camera vehicle. I can P_Park 1st shot every time without banging tires/alloys into the curb again.. ;)

[azrider]

Yeah, they’re nice. I almost bought a Montero years ago. Underrated SUV that is pretty capable off road.

But cargo space still pales in comparison to a minivan. I just looked up the stats. 2006 Montero has a max cargo capacity of 92 cu ft. Sienna (also from 2006 to be fair) has 148 cu ft. And surprisingly the Sienna has more payload. Head room, leg/shoulder room, just can’t beat a minivan.

Also, I believe Mitsu used to supply engines to Dodge back in the day. They were known to be quite bulletproof.

Anyway, not interested in SUV/CUV’s.

Wow, that payload delta is pretty surprising. I was only being difficult. You'r'e absolutely right that Minivans are pretty tough to beat.

You are correct on the Mitsu/Dodge partnership. It was referred to as DSM or Diamond Star Motors which was referencing each companies logos: Mitsu's triple diamond and Chryslers Pentastar. Generally speaking, when you say DSM most gearheads think of the 1st and 2nd gen Mitsu Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon.

But guys like me think of the Dodge Raider which was a result of that partnership. There are several of these in the group I run with and they all rave about them.

One day I will own one of these little buggies.........one day


https://blog.consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2012/06/1989-Dodge-Raider.jpg

[mtechnica]

RE:

"Also, I believe Mitsu used to supply engines to Dodge back in the day. They were known to be quite bulletproof. "

And DSMs...

No, they were not bulletproof. In fact, they were quite unreliable.

I know this is getting OT but the 90's Mitsubishis/Chryslers duo were a match made in hell.

[robt57]

Yeah, gotta say that claim was news to me...

Although once they quit putting alloy heads on ferrous main blocks a lot of destined "engine failure issues" were cured to a large degree.


RE:

"Also, I believe Mitsu used to supply engines to Dodge back in the day. They were known to be quite bulletproof. "

And DSMs...

No, they were not bulletproof. In fact, they were quite unreliable.

I know this is getting OT but the 90's Mitsubishis/Chryslers duo were a match made in hell.

[benb]

SUV - check
Fold down middle seats - check
Stow away third row - check
can fit 3 (58cm) bikes without taking front wheel off - check

Can you fit those 3 bikes inside the vehicle without taking any wheels off or lowering any saddles and still carry 3 adults inside legally (all wearing seatbelts)?

Read my original post carefully. I wasn't talking about what you're doing. External rack + cargo box on a SUV vs everything inside a Minivan is exactly the point I was making.

The Minivan will fit everything inside and get 2x the gas mileage of the SUV with external rack + external bikes + cargo box.

Also remember when comparing cargo space in cubic feet between a Minivan and an SUV it's misleading unless you're just filling the interior with water that can flow to fill all spaces. The minivan has a much more useable shaped cargo area.

[p nut]

RE:

"Also, I believe Mitsu used to supply engines to Dodge back in the day. They were known to be quite bulletproof. "

And DSMs...

No, they were not bulletproof. In fact, they were quite unreliable.

I know this is getting OT but the 90's Mitsubishis/Chryslers duo were a match made in hell.

Guess I was speaking more to the 3.0 V6’s found in the Dodge Caravans. I don’t know much about turbo’ed engines, other than it appears two bottles of NOS is about their limit :D

[Velocipede]

I tried one and decided on another Odyssey. My buddy from high school owns a Chrysler dealership. He even told me not to get it. They still have transmission issues. It's super common on Chrysler/Dodge vehicles.

A buddy of mine has a first gen Pacifica minivan. He bought it for his wife(they had babies so she wanted a van). He's had a few different problems with his. Rear lift gate stopped working. Transmission at 60,000 miles, And he had a couple engine mounts that needed replaced.

I didn't think it rode as nice as the Odyssey either.

[azrider]

Can you fit those 3 bikes inside the vehicle without taking any wheels off or lowering any saddles and still carry 3 adults inside legally (all wearing seatbelts)?

Read my original post carefully. I wasn't talking about what you're doing. External rack + cargo box on a SUV vs everything inside a Minivan is exactly the point I was making.

The Minivan will fit everything inside and get 2x the gas mileage of the SUV with external rack + external bikes + cargo box.

Also remember when comparing cargo space in cubic feet between a Minivan and an SUV it's misleading unless you're just filling the interior with water that can flow to fill all spaces. The minivan has a much more useable shaped cargo area.

Yes you can fit three bikes without taking wheel off and transport three people and I'm very well aware that bikes are in a different configuration in pic shown.

We also established that I was teasing for the most part and my post was said in jest after admitting a minivan was a clear winner in capacity......

Lighten up francis......

[donevwil]

Minivan vs SUV, Campy vs Shimano, this vs that, intentional thread tangents. Lighten up Francis? Sheesh, grow up.

[Ralph]

I wouldn't hesitate for a minute buying a Pacifica if I was in the market for a new mini van. So much of it is basic parts used in many of their vehicles. I might limit the electronics it came with to just the items I wanted though. My experience with new vehicles is the more optional electronics it comes with, the likely little things can malfunction. I know too many cyclists with the more recent Dodge Caravans, (same running gear as Pacifica) with many trouble free miles to be afraid of a Pacifica. Got a good friend with over 200,000 miles on one.

[p nut]

But guys like me think of the Dodge Raider which was a result of that partnership. There are several of these in the group I run with and they all rave about them.

One day I will own one of these little buggies.........one day


https://blog.consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2012/06/1989-Dodge-Raider.jpg

I like those little trucks. I like Samurai/Trackers of the same vintage as well. Too bad we don’t get the Jimny here.

I wouldn't hesitate for a minute buying a Pacifica if I was in the market for a new mini van. So much of it is basic parts used in many of their vehicles. I might limit the electronics it came with to just the items I wanted though. My experience with new vehicles is the more optional electronics it comes with, the likely little things can malfunction. I know too many cyclists with the more recent Dodge Caravans, (same running gear as Pacifica) with many trouble free miles to be afraid of a Pacifica. Got a good friend with over 200,000 miles on one.

That’s good to hear. I (we) really want to get one. I typically try to stay mid-grade. One, for cost, and two, like you say, glitches waiting to happen. My own truck is a very base model. I do like the dual moonroof option though. Doubtful you could get that in a non-upper trim. Oh well.

[duff_duffy]

Plus one on this, one or two stories on this forum begin to tell the story - lots of input from lots of users on consumer reports provides valuable insight!

In my past life I was a valet, not impressed by Chrysler...Honda, Toyota and Lexus tended to get great reviews by owners, Kia and Hyundai recent models were well regarded by owners. Got to drive 1000’s of cars and speak to many owners. General rules of thumb:
By Honda, Toyota for quality and reliability. Go to Acura and Lexus to spice it up a bit.
German for performance but save money for repairs but most owners liked with exception of lower end VWs
Never buy a Jaguar or Land Rover unless you have tons of cash and spare car and driver to bring you home from repair shop
Most American cars just did not get good reviews by the owners or us valets that drove them. A few went very fast in a straight line but quality and ergonomics and electronics were typically lacking.

Anyway, that’s what I learned from my years as valet. Your opinions will vary! If you want a people and cargo hauler that rocks find a Toyota Land Cruiser, those were so nice....


Consumers Reports gives the Chrysler Pacifica very poor ratings for reliability.

[jimcav]

my sis has had a grand caravan forever. just keeps going.

my last 5 years on AD, every motor pool van was a caravan. I never had an issue with any work trip, and for many months that was 3+ hour drives in 100+ temps over mtn passes.

I know the navy fleet vehicles get their regular maintenance, but assume most paceline owners would follow the factory schedule too.

Anyway, I loved the vehicle and rented one when i had to drive over 2k miles to Indiana to get stuff out of the house when my mom passed. That was July--again super hot the whole way there and back. I drove at highways speeds for 12-15 hours per day, only stopping for gas and to mtn bike along the way.

I don't know the utility of awd vs fwd, but i went to some trail heads with no issue.

[p nut]

It’s my opinion that with the globalization of labor force, the disparity of build quality, engineering superiority, etc. have narrowed quite a bit. Most major companies hire from the same talent pool. Employees are recruited from one company to another.

I was a die hard Honda/Toyota guy for 25 years. Those vehicles in the 90’s were just fantastic. But now days. I drive a Ford. And I’ve been extremely satisfied. I believe you’ll have good reliability with any modern vehicle and potential for just as many issues with any vehicle make. Just luck of the draw.

[benb]

How can you say the American companies have closed the gap when they're abandoning cars completely in a short sighted move to get more profits on SUVs and trucks before the next bit gas crisis and then aim for a bailout again? Ford is nuts!

I do want my next car to be American though, I really want to buy a Tesla. It's going to be a while though.

And you can always remember if you buy "foreign" and it's a Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, BMW, Kia, Hyundai, Subaru, etc.. there's still a very good chance it's made in the US.

The way stuff is globalized works both ways... probably lots of imported parts on cars from the Big 3, and some of their cars are made in Canada or Mexico as well.

No company drapes itself in the American flag more than Harley Davidson.. and then you see the Japanese brakes & forks/shocks on a bunch of them, and their best engine design outsourced to Porsche in Germany.