Santa Cruz Tallboy LT thoughts?

[d_douglas]

I have a 2014 Banshee Phantom 29er that I have really enjoyed. These get rave reviews and it is warranted. My only gripe is that they are heavy and that mine is borderline too small.

A friend has come across a MINT (as in nearly new) 2013 carbon SC Tallboy SC for a great price in my size. I have always thought SC bikes were very nice, but the more important thing is whether these bikes are appropriate for riding in my part of the world. It seems that all the glowing reviews show people riding them in Arizona and California, but not in the mud and roots of West Coast Canada.

I a m not a geometry geek, but I observe that the SC has steeper angles than the Banshee, which is more on trend. I do not ride ten foot drop-offs, but I do ride some steep trails that are pretty tight.

Is there anyone out there in the PNW who rides one of these and can comment on the capacity of them in this terrain?

Secondly, any generalized comments on the Tallboy LT? I assume they will be favourable, as no one seems to have a bad word for these bikes, but I am open to hearing any feedback. I have heard that SC carbon bikes are very high quality and well built. Not feather light, but made for durability (which I like)

Thirdly, are the gains made by getting this bike worth the hassle of selling off my Banshee? The deal is so good that I probably wouldn't spend more than a few hundred dollars to switch bikes (carbon, larger) but in reality, I am not sure if the change will improve my riding.

Thanks for any comments.

[eBAUMANN]

hey, i owned a 2012 tallboy ltc for a couple years and brought it with me in my van all last year. rode it in pretty much every state we travelled through, including a handful of trail systems in WA/OR/NorCal. I rode the bike with both 27.5x2.8" and 29x2.4" tires.

I enjoyed the bike, a lot. They are a really solid platform for lots of different types of terrain, and can be found VERY cheap these days due to their "dated" geometry. They are GREAT bang for buck compared to the cost of a 2020 SC anything.

That said.

The HTA is pretty steep and the top tube pretty short by today's standard but can be compensated for by running a 150/160mm fork and a shorter stem. I was riding a 150mm Pike, which I THINK was the stock fork...could be wrong though as I bought the bike used. The top tube length though...cant do much about that. I ended up using a 110mm stem...yes, 110. Ultimately thats why I sold the frame, it was just too small for me, an XL would have been better, but still short.

This stuff (in my opinion) really only becomes noticable if you are doing gravity-oriented technical riding where weight distribution and angles start to matter more. If you are doing slower technical riding over more varied terrain, youll appreciate the steeper front end, as the geometry/travel of the bike strikes a perfect balance between being nimble enough to dissect a rock garden but without sacrificing its ability to absorb anything you point it at.

Cons
- one bottle mount on the underside of the downtube...use a STRONG cage (arundel mandible with gaffer tape wrapped arms worked for me).

- lower pivot bolt had a tendency to back out on me after 40-50hrs, resulting in some squeaking/creaking on occasion. easy enough to remove, grease, and re-assemble though.

[d_douglas]

Thanks Eric - perfect feedback. Interesting that it took 27.5 x 2.8s in 2012. My Banshee has this setup and I was trying ot figure out what to do with it, as they have Onyx hubs which I love. That said, I think 29er is more my thing and the 27.5s were a somewhat costly misstep. Mine are barely used, so it would be possible to trade for a set of 29ers pretty easily or just rebuild the wheels around these hubs. If the frame fits 2.8" tires, I would likely be cheap and keep them as is.

As for balance, I think it sounds like it hits alot of high points. My industry friend who has alerted me to the bike is always buying the newest/latest and I am not sure if he advocates for steep angles like this. That said, he knows its a bargain, so he let me know in case I wanted it.

As for size, it is an XL (and we ride the same size road bikes) so that is reassuring. My Banshee uses an 80mm stem and the Tallboy TT is 20mm longer than it, so I am extrapolating that I could use a 60mm stem, which would mean it would look 'current'.

Anyone want a Banshee Phantom :)?? I love this bike, but I cant help but think itd be better if it was much lighter, and this is where the SC shines.

hey, i owned a 2012 tallboy ltc for a couple years and brought it with me in my van all last year. rode it in pretty much every state we travelled through, including a handful of trail systems in WA/OR/NorCal. I rode the bike with both 27.5x2.8" and 29x2.4" tires.

I enjoyed the bike, a lot. They are a really solid platform for lots of different types of terrain, and can be found VERY cheap these days due to their "dated" geometry. They are GREAT bang for buck compared to the cost of a 2020 SC anything.

That said.

The HTA is pretty steep and the top tube pretty short by today's standard but can be compensated for by running a 150/160mm fork and a shorter stem. I was riding a 150mm Pike, which I THINK was the stock fork...could be wrong though as I bought the bike used. The top tube length though...cant do much about that. I ended up using a 110mm stem...yes, 110. Ultimately thats why I sold the frame, it was just too small for me, an XL would have been better, but still short.

This stuff (in my opinion) really only becomes noticable if you are doing gravity-oriented technical riding where weight distribution and angles start to matter more. If you are doing slower technical riding over more varied terrain, youll appreciate the steeper front end, as the geometry/travel of the bike strikes a perfect balance between being nimble enough to dissect a rock garden but without sacrificing its ability to absorb anything you point it at.

Cons
- one bottle mount on the underside of the downtube...use a STRONG cage (arundel mandible with gaffer tape wrapped arms worked for me).

- lower pivot bolt had a tendency to back out on me after 40-50hrs, resulting in some squeaking/creaking on occasion. easy enough to remove, grease, and re-assemble though.

[d_douglas]

By the way, is there a way to use an internally routed dropper on this frame? Surprised if there isnt (as my Banshee can), but I dont see any images of internally routed droppers on the web.

Thanks for your reply...

[eBAUMANN]

By the way, is there a way to use an internally routed dropper on this frame? Surprised if there isnt (as my Banshee can), but I dont see any images of internally routed droppers on the web.

Thanks for your reply...

All cables/hoses on the frame are external.
I used a magura vyron (wireless) when i used a dropper on it, but most of the time i was just using a thomson.

If you can fit on there with a 60-90mm stem id say go for it.
As far as the 2.8" setup goes, I think I definitely preferred the bike as a 29er and would have maybe tried squeezing 2.5" rear and 2.6" front in there if I still had it. I like big tires.
The 2.8's were WTB trailblazers, which were designed explicitly to fit 29er frames - read: minimal side-lugs on the tread pattern.
I was just 27.5+ curious so I tried it out enough to decide it was fun but better suited to a bike with geometry designed for it.

[d_douglas]

All cables/hoses on the frame are external.
I used a magura vyron (wireless) when i used a dropper on it, but most of the time i was just using a thomson.

If you can fit on there with a 60-90mm stem id say go for it.
As far as the 2.8" setup goes, I think I definitely preferred the bike as a 29er and would have maybe tried squeezing 2.5" rear and 2.6" front in there if I still had it. I like big tires.
The 2.8's were WTB trailblazers, which were designed explicitly to fit 29er frames - read: minimal side-lugs on the tread pattern.
I was just 27.5+ curious so I tried it out enough to decide it was fun but better suited to a bike with geometry designed for it.

Thanks, yes, the 27.5plus curious thing was me, and I agree that I think 29er native is better. My Banshee rides well with the plus tires, but I think it was meant for 29er tires.

As far as droppers go, what is a nice externally routed dropper? I have no idea, as I have only owned internally routed frames.

[eBAUMANN]

Thanks, yes, the 27.5plus curious thing was me, and I agree that I think 29er native is better. My Banshee rides well with the plus tires, but I think it was meant for 29er tires.

As far as droppers go, what is a nice externally routed dropper? I have no idea, as I have only owned internally routed frames.

PNW makes nice/affordable droppers, and just launched a refurb/recycle program which I am a BIG fan of, excellent idea on their part.

https://cycled.pnwcomponents.com/collections/all
Cascade 30.9 External
(https://cycled.pnwcomponents.com/products/cascade-dropper-post)
They are also just good people over there, worth supporting IMO.

[Jaybee]

PNW makes nice/affordable droppers, and just launched a refurb/recycle program which I am a BIG fan of, excellent idea on their part.

https://cycled.pnwcomponents.com/collections/all
Cascade 30.9 External
(https://cycled.pnwcomponents.com/products/cascade-dropper-post)
They are also just good people over there, worth supporting IMO.

100% this.

I got an externally routed PNW for my for my fat bike because I wanted coil instead of air spring in really cold conditions. I've been impressed enough with that piece that I'll be getting another PNW for my Hightower when the Reverb finally goes out of warranty (already been replaced twice).

[John H.]

I wouldn't get a 2013 full suspension of any kind.
Geometry and suspension has gotten so much better in that time period.

[d_douglas]

I wouldn't get a 2013 full suspension of any kind.
Geometry and suspension has gotten so much better in that time period.

Yes, I question that, but to be honest, my Banshee is a year newer and is a great bike (with a more 'progressive' geometry, mind you). My buddy with the connection to the bike said that the geometry was consistent up until 2017, then become longer and slacker.

Stil not sure that long and slack is really the be all-end all. I owned a Chromag hardtail from 2015 and when they updated the geometry to be super long and slack, I just couldnt get me head around it. I felt like my middle-of-the-road Chromag was more my speed.

[eBAUMANN]

I wouldn't get a 2013 full suspension of any kind.
Geometry and suspension has gotten so much better in that time period.

Depends on your definition of "better..."

Because the simple fact of the matter is that everyone rides differently/different terrain and there is no real, objective "better" or "worse" here, just "different."

[d_douglas]

True. While I love the idea of one of those Pole bikes and me hurtling down a massive hill at Rotorua, the reality is that I am a 50yr old out of shape cyclist who turtles his way up trails looking to have a bit of fun.

Dont get me wrong, I do ride technical stuff and have done a few 'rad drops' but those are few and far between and I really just want a balanced bike. The Banshee is about as rad as I could make use of and the SC is one step back from that in radness.

I really wish it had provisions for an internal dropper though. Not a deal breaker, but it seems so logical based on all the bikes that have them now.

I think I am talking myself into buying this bike?

[eBAUMANN]

True. While I love the idea of one of those Pole bikes and me hurtling down a massive hill at Rotorua, the reality is that I am a 50yr old out of shape cyclist who turtles his way up trails looking to have a bit of fun.

Dont get me wrong, I do ride technical stuff and have done a few 'rad drops' but those are few and far between and I really just want a balanced bike. The Banshee is about as rad as I could make use of and the SC is one step back from that in radness.

I really wish it had provisions for an internal dropper though. Not a deal breaker, but it seems so logical based on all the bikes that have them now.

I think I am talking myself into buying this bike?

If everything else is external, its not really a big deal. They work the same no matter where the housing ends up.

Personally, I prefer external cables/housing across the board, on any bike. I switch stuff around too often and being able to access/remove/install stuff without breaking out the flashlight and picky/pokey tools is a big plus in my book.

[John H.]

Older bikes tend to have steeper head angle and less reach.
For me, a full suspension bike with a long top tube and a 68 degree head angle has been a game changer.
It is both more stable and more nimble.
Made me realize that I am not a bad mountain bike rider, I just had crappy bikes.

Good examples of bikes like this are:
Orbea Oiz TR (which I have)
Trek Top Fuel
Scott Spark (Non RC)

And I am sure there are others. But these bikes are really capable and they still climb well.

I have observed the same thing with newer hardtails-

Depends on your definition of "better..."

Because the simple fact of the matter is that everyone rides differently/different terrain and there is no real, objective "better" or "worse" here, just "different."