What do you guys think of this one..kinda long

[SoCalSteve]

I buy a fair amount of cycling products from mail order houses and a couple I use more than all the rest...I saw something on sale through one that I wanted and they matched the price of another item...so, I bought these items..fast forward:

A few days later the package arrives and its missing one item (a $400.00 item at that). First thing the next morning I call the company and get a cust. ser. rep. (csr). He first accuses UPS of screwing it up and when I tell him the box was sealed and unopened, he tells me that he needs to call me back. I tell him the only acceptable option is that he overnights me the item, end of story...He refuses, I say let me speak to a manager. A few minutes pass and a manager gets on the phone. He explains to me that he needs to see what the weight of the package was when it left and he will call me back within an hour. Fast forward:

20 minute later the phone rings and the manager is on the line apologizing and saying the he will indeed ship the part (that never made it in the first box) overnight to me. Fast forward:

Next day I arrive home after work to find no package on my doorstep. I promptly called the company and got another csr on the line. He tells me that the manager has gone home for the day and he will look into it. I wait on the phone about 10 minutes until he comes back on the line. He says that he cannot find a tracking number, cannot get a hold of the manager and do I need it overnighted to me again (it being a Saturday and I am sure very expensive). He asks me this a few times. I say over and over again, I should had it 2 days prior and yes, I need it. He says ok, it will ship tonight overnighted to you. Fast forward to:

20 minutes later when I call back to ask him for a tracking number. He says that the manager did call in, the packaged did ship and I will have it within an hour or so via UPS. He gives me a tracking number...I then question him on why he asked me so many times if I needed it overnight. I said, dont you know the whole story, if you did, you wouldnt be questioning me on this... and (here is where it gets good) he says...Yes, I heard the recording of your conversation with the manager the day before. I stop the conversation and ask him: The conversation with the manager was recorded without my knowledge? He said yes it was. I ask him again as I am incredulous at this point. He flat out states that yes, the conversation was recorded without my knowledge. I ask him to have the manager call me the next time he is in and we hang up....

OK, is this wrong? Is it illegal? Is it standard business practice and I just dont know about it? It feels very weird to me for some reason. Am I making too big a deal of it?

How do you all feel about this?

Thanks in advance for your opinions,

Steve

[AgilisMerlin]

"You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"




the "recording" is a moot point. Your issue with them is not.




AmerliN

[Serpico]

"for quality assurance purposes this call may be monitored or recorded"

did you hear that? usually they'll have a message like that. they randomly record employees and make sure they aren't being $@%# over the phone or sleeping.

sounds like they taped you for a different reason. how large is this place? would they have a large call center that monitors employees? or is this a small shop and the guy plugged the phone into a recorder?

I would assume the disclaimer above somehow skirts the issue of whether wiretapping laws were breached. aside from that I don't think someone can just tape you.

fwiw, wiretapping laws are state-by-state, not federal. where are they? what is the law there?

either way, good luck.

[atmo]

so - if it was recorded and if he did listen to
it, then why did he continue to ask if, in fact,
you needed it overnighted atmo? please tell
me the part about the mustard going on the
bread and not the pastrami didn't get on the
tape atmo.

[Lifelover]

IMHO (and this has nothing to do with what is legal) if you call them they should be free to record the call with or without your consent.

Why do you care that it was recorded?

[justinf]

I sorta hate to admit it, but I would probably bust their balls really hard just on principle. Poor business practices, even it there is no legal breach.

Did you get the item as promised?

[AgilisMerlin]

come on socal:


what company ?

we need to start inserting their name, as this thread gets uglier and uglier. :D




amerliN

[SoCalSteve]

"for quality assurance purposes this call may be monitored or recorded"

did you hear that? usually they'll have a message like that. they randomly record employees and make sure they aren't being $@%# over the phone or sleeping.
sounds like they taped you for a different reason. how large is this place? would they have a large call center that monitors employees? or is this a small shop and the guy plugged the phone into a recorder?

I would assume the disclaimer above somehow skirts the issue of whether wiretapping laws were breached. aside from that I don't think someone can just tape you.

fwiw, wiretapping laws are state-by-state, not federal. where are they? what is the law there?

either way, good luck.

There was nothing telling me that they would be recording me, neither on the on hold, the website nor their catalogue.

I have no idea how large the company is (one of the bigger mail order houses).

They are in Colorado.

[atmo]

it wasn't the boulder deli atmo?

[SoCalSteve]

IMHO (and this has nothing to do with what is legal) if you call them they should be free to record the call with or without your consent.

Why do you care that it was recorded?

I honestly dont care if I was recorded, I just would like to have known about it beforehand.

[SoCalSteve]

I sorta hate to admit it, but I would probably bust their balls really hard just on principle. Poor business practices, even it there is no legal breach.

Did you get the item as promised?

Item came as promised (a day late).

I guess to me it is a principal issue as well.

Life is too short to get into legal actions over petty stuff. Again, just didnt feel right.

[SoCalSteve]

come on socal:


what company ?

we need to start inserting their name, as this thread gets uglier and uglier. :D




amerliN

I need to have a chat with the manager first. I'll see how that goes and let you know if I feel comfortable telling you the name of the company.

[manet]

I honestly dont care if I was recorded, I just would like to have known about it beforehand.

yo american idol

[SoCalSteve]

it wasn't the boulder deli atmo?

I'd hate to see what their specialty is. Wonder if dental work goes along with every sandwich...

[AgilisMerlin]

Actually i wish i could of recorded you when you found the item missing from the BOX. :D




AMERLIn

[CPP]

Like you said "Life is too short..... go out and try your new $400 piece of equipment
CPP

[SoCalSteve]

Actually i wish i could of recorded you when you found the item missing from the BOX. :D




AMERLIn

I was a little upset, yeah...not because the item wasnt there (I actually didnt have such a big time issue) just because I had a feeling I'd run into "issues"...

[AgilisMerlin]

$400.00 is like a new pair of Gucci Sidi's.

Don't have to be nice, just happy they called you back.



amerliN

[SoCalSteve]

Like you said "Life is to short..... go out and try your new $400 piece of equipmentCPP

I'm all over it!

Thanks!!!

[atmo]

this is so karaoke atmo.

[Fivethumbs]

California Pena Code Section 632.

"(a) Every person who, intentionally and without the consent of all parties to a confidential communication, by means of any electronic amplifying or recording device, eavesdrops upon or records the confidential communication, whether the communication is carried on among the parties in the presence of one another or by means of a telegraph, telephone, or other device, except a radio, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment."

The question is, was your conversation with a customer service rep. of a company you were doing business with a "confidential communication"? Probably not. I'm sure if he asked you if he could put you on speaker phone so his manager could also hear the conversation you probably would have agreed.

[catulle]

Invariably, my experience with the small, independent builders has been great, excellent. However, most everyone else in the cycling marketing world (retailers, Internet merchants, manufacturers...) I've found rather defensive or outright hideous. Atmo, imho, et al....

[jwprolo]

following the slight drift here, third party listning/recording laws vary state to state. I know that, for instance, it is perfectly legal to record phone calls without any notification in the state of Oregon. But damn.... talk about missing the point of being in retail service.

[1centaur]

As I understand it, in most states it is legal for one party in a conversation to record the conversation without informing the other person. It is the taping of a conversation between two people neither of whom knows about the taping that is always illegal, and so in that clip of the California code the question is whether "confidential" is defined as a conversation between two or more people without knowledge of the taping.

I agree with others that the law and social practice are two different things. In the brokerage business, lines are uniformly taped and there are beeping sounds to indicate this to all parties. As previously noted, many call centers have a "this call may be recorded for quality assurance" purposes message, which I think is both polite and wise, as many customers don't know what the law is and will get upset if they find they have been taped.

This episode is worth remembering in that when one is in a dispute with a call center that spans several calls, it might be worth asking each person in the chain if calls are recorded - only takes one truth teller to catch them up in their "do you know with whom you spoke?" game of blame shifting.

[roman meal]

Transcript:

Jackie Chiles: ""Who told you to put the cheese on?" (holding up a slice of Swiss cheese) I didn't tell you to put the cheese on. You people with the cheese. It never ends..."

[RIHans]

I believe you can record your own phone for WHATEVER. You don't need to notify the other party that the call is being recorded. Recording your own phone is not phone tapping but, I agree, most companies who do it notify you before hand. Anyhoo....Glad ya got the stuff, Day late and a recorded phone call short.
Remember Monica Lowinski being recorded...

[trophyoftexas]

..order from them anymore. Also, tell everyone you know about your experience. When I have a good experience with a CSR I ALWAYS try to talk to their boss and let them know about a "job well done" so I feel perfectly at ease about raising a little hell if something is amiss or screwed up. YOUR MONEY makes you the boss...doesn't always make you correct but it does afford you the right to make reasonable demands on them to perform honestly and efficiently.

[steelisreal]

Maybe you should start buying from your lbs?

[pretty pony]

A bird in hand is better than two in the bush.

Happiness! Flowers! Rainbows!