1500-Dollar Question

[ThasFACE]

Got a fitting done at Signature (Grant and Paul are solid dudes) a week back, and got my numbers a day ago.

Question is whether I should stretch (hard) for a legend or get a fierte IT. I just sold a fierte ti, so I'm not interested in that model at all. The IT is appealing, but I wonder if I shouldn't just 'swing for the fences' and get the legend since I'm already committed to spending a s*&t-ton of money.

Is the legend 'that' much better than a fierte? Or is it merely a matter of paying a premium for 'the best.'

For reference, I have weird suggested-geometry numbers and am looking for something to train/race on.

Thanks in advance for advice/thoughts.

[RABikes2]

Never rode a fierte to compare, but my Legend TI...is totally sweet to ride!
RA

[vaxn8r]

Legend. Don't look back.

[Too Tall]

Face, not unless you want the best d@mn Ti frame on plant earth :)
BTW - are you a tall / large rider and if you care to share wazzap with your fit numbers? Clue me.

[stevep]

go for it.
youll wish you did.
better is always better.

[Dan Oakland]

[QUOTE=ThasFACE]but I wonder if I shouldn't just 'swing for the fences' and get the legend since I'm already committed to spending a s*&t-ton of money.

QUOTE]
Swing away.
Life is way short to ride something that is less than what you consider the best.
Dan

[BumbleBeeDave]

Never rode a fierte to compare, but my Legend TI...is totally sweet to ride!
RA

"It's the sweetest thing . . . " (Hee-Hee!) ;)

BBD

[Ray]

The IT is appealing, but I wonder if I shouldn't just 'swing for the fences' and get the legend since I'm already committed to spending a s*&t-ton of money.
I can't comment on the merits, never having ridden either. But the fact that you're wondering now means you'll be wondering always. If you were able to do a back to back, you might not be able to tell the difference. But you can't do an apples to apples back to back, right? If you got the Fierte, it might be all the bike you'd ever want. But the point is you'd never be sure, you'd probably keep wondering 'what IF' and it would cloud your impressions of the Fierte. So spend the extra (assuming it won't break you) and KNOW you're getting the best of the type of bike you want. The money breaks down to very little over the life of the bike, particularly if you keep the frame a long time, which you should. And you'd never wonder about the bike again.

To me, that's worth a lot. YMMV, but it doesn't sound like it.

-Ray

[RABikes2]

"It's the sweetest thing . . . " (Hee-Hee!) ;) BBD
Dave, Dave, Dave...you are such the tease, aren't you?! ;)

[JohnS]

There's always the Concours...

[davids]

I think these two frames are going to have distinct personalities. I think the Fierte IT is going to be very similar to my Nove. In my experience, the carbon-Ti combo creates a creamy-smooth ride. You'll be "stuck" with stock Serotta geos, but if they work for you, you'll have absolutely nothing to complain about - My Nove is stock, and it's stable, maneuverable, and climbs like a goat.

I also loved my time on the Fierte Ti, and I'd imagine that the Legend would perfect its personality. The Fierte Ti fed back more 'buzz' from the road, but in a completely satisfying way. I'd bet that the Legend would have that same 'flavor', but will (obviously) let you tweak geos, handling, etc. to your tastes.

I've got very mixed feelings about going with custom geo if your body doesn't need it - Why screw with well-thought-out, time-tested geos just to say your bike is custom? - but if you want specific ride/handling characteristics, you won't get them with a stock Fierte IT.

You also won't get paint options.

So, I'd say they offer two different flavors - The "creamy-smooth" IT vs. the "buzzy-smooth" Legend - and you've got customization options with the Legend that you don't have with the Fierte.

[Serotta PETE]

THe Legend and Legend ST are among the best riding bikes that I have ever been on (they had the F3 on them). From the CDA (just ask Smiley) to the Meivici (ask SPOKES) all are fine bikes. I have a very sweet spot for the Legend ST. Just got mine back from Serotta and repaint. SPOKES built it up and it really felt nice being with an ole friend again>

It is a presonal choice, for there is not a bad riding one in the line - just different. If you are even thinking about the LEGEND -- -GET IT!!!! You will love it.


Let us know what you decide and when you get it POST PICTURES!!!


PETE

[Ahneida Ride]

They ain't dollars. They are paper frn's .... federal reserve notes. redeemable only in frn's.
paper notes are not dollars.
What makes a paper note valuable is the commodity that the paper is exchangeable for. The paper itself is valueless. A note is a promise to pay
the owner something of tangible value.

Years ago .... A note said that the US Government would pay to the bearer
on demand the note value. People only initially accepted paper notes
because they were exchangeable in a tangible asset. An assset of
intrinsic value.

This little promise has been removed.
Now the Note is redeemable in nothing. A promise to pay in nothing.

The frn should read. This is a note issued by a PRIVATE bank, not the
US government. This note is only redeemable only in another piece of
paper that is identical to this piece of paper.

[Grant McLean]

Isn't a NOVE about $100 more than a Legend?

If you've already had a Ti bike, and are considering the Fierte IT,
the better comparison is to the NOVE. If the stock geo of the Fierte IT
works for you, that'd be my choice.

g

[1centaur]

What makes a paper note valuable is the commodity that the paper is exchangeable for.

Funny, I always thought gold was not worth its price in real terms but was a quaint convention of value. Its value comes from people believing it has value, not its true use in the world.

If society broke down such that the confidence (almost) everybody has that they can convert FRNs to something they really value was gone, I believe the same confidence would depart from gold as well. Food and shelter would be things of value.

Gold and dollars get their value from the exact same thing: confidence that the world is a stable enough place that they can continue to be convertible into items of real value, such as Serotta bikes.

To the OP: If you need custom, or have reason to believe you would really like custom (looks CANNOT be overemphasized in granting pleasure, IMO), get custom. If not, if you're in it for the physical effort and achievement, save money and ride happily on any high quality frame. "Weird" numbers suggest a custom to me, but they'd better be right.

[ThasFACE]

Face, not unless you want the best d@mn Ti frame on plant earth :)
BTW - are you a tall / large rider and if you care to share wazzap with your fit numbers? Clue me.

I think that everyone is right when they say that I would always wonder if I didn't get the Legend.

As for my numbers, the custom-build sheet that I have here says that I would need a 56 st with a 73 sta, a 54.5 tt (effective, with 6deg slope), and a 20 ht with a 71.5 hta. I'm just over 6ft (linebacker-ish build), but apparently my hip flexion is pretty poor (even though my flexibility in general is very good).

These number seem strange, to me, at least, since I am having trouble finding any stock frames that would accomodate my contact points withough having to put in a ton of spacers and rise (read: 5 or 6 cm of spacer and a steep and short stem).

[Also, thanks for all of the responses]

[Ahneida Ride]

Gold and dollars get their value from the exact same thing: confidence that the world is a stable enough place that they can continue to be convertible into items of real value, such as Serotta bikes.


Exactly .... but frn are not dollars. That is my whole point.
frn = non redeemable paper.
A real dollar, such as a gold or silver coin, has intrinsic value.
frn have no intrinsic value as gold or silver. There only value
is that the US government accepts them as tax payment.

The rest of the world does not pay US taxes, thus the rest of the world
may rapidly decide to unload their frn's creating a financial havoc
over here. The frn hegemony will then be over. People do not like to be
diluted.

Gold gets its value from the confidence that it cannot be easily counterfeited. It takes work to mine Gold. Hence the owner of gold
is not easily diluted. Gold also has a 5000 year track record. I doubt the frn
will be here in 5000 years. Gold can't be created outa thin air. I doubt that
in the next 100 years, the human race will precived gold as valueless.
Confidence is the key word here. You are correct.

The frn is created outa thin air. There is no word in the English for this process. How is frnacation? As more and more is created outa thin air, the owner of the frn is
diluted. The purchasing power of the frn diminishes. Inflation is actually dilution. At some point the dilution will no longer be tolerated by the rest of
the world and their wealth stored in frn will move into other products.
Confidence in the frn will disappear.
The US will be awash in frn, the frn we created outa thin air.

The only reason the frn gained initial confidence is that at one time it was exchangeable in a dollar amount of a precious metal.

The word dollar is actually a weight. Just like the word pound or ounce.
The weight is to set by Congress.

When you visit the delicatessen, you do not ask for a pound.
You ask for a pound of cheese or ham.

Likewise, when someone says that they will pay you a dollar, you should
ask, a dollar of what? Gold, silver or Baloney.

Don't misinterpret me. Money need not be backed by precious metal.
But real money can't be created outa thin air in excess of the creation
of capital (goods and services). When this power to create money is given
to a select few, it is abused, with the end result being inflation. Too much
phony money in circulation = eventual contraction of confidence and the
money becomes worthless, the economy goes berzerk and the political
enterprise is revamped and replaced with who knows what.

Gold and silver can't be created outa thin air by the politicians and the
political/monetary scientists. Hence their sucessful effort to take us off
any precious metal standard.

Ok ... this is a bike forum. So I'll crawl back ito my hole and shut up.
Till my next rant and I get bounced off the phorum.
But at least you may have some insight as to why things are getting
so expensive. Inflation/dilution is not a right of human passage.

[pdxmech13]

with those angles a fierte wouldn't be an option I would think.
what are your goals and what bike would suit your riding style.
I wouldn't discredit a concours if the legend is stretching you budget.

[ThasFACE]

with those angles a fierte wouldn't be an option I would think.
what are your goals and what bike would suit your riding style.
I wouldn't discredit a concours if the legend is stretching you budget.

I am told that a fierte in 56 would accomodate my contact points. My custom design has 2cm of spacer and a 10cm stem oriented at -6 (with the 54.5 tt and the 20.67 ht with 71.5 hta). On the fierte, I am told that I would need 3.2cm of spacer and a 9cm stem oriented at +6.

My goals are to ride as much as possible, including training and probably racing.

I have thought about the concours (still thinking about it), but I suspect that I would suffer the same problem that I would with a fierte: legend envy.

[pdxmech13]

you just said the bike you want.legend envy.

[johnmdesigner]

Don't worry about Paul's numbers. He will design the frame to allow for improvements in your flexibility. I have 57st and 55 tt w/2cm of spacers.
My first was a concours CS - after I got it all I wanted was an Ottrott.
Don't skimp for a few bills - get what you really want.
And for god sake get a nice paint job!

[ThasFACE]

you just said the bike you want.legend envy.

You're definitely not wrong. I've always known which one I want. The only question has been whether I would be happy enough with a less spendy frame. At this point I'm not sure that I would.

I guess that it doesn't make sense to hold back if I can make it happen, especially if I know that I'll always wonder if I do not get the legend.

[ThasFACE]

Don't worry about Paul's numbers. He will design the frame to allow for improvements in your flexibility. I have 57st and 55 tt w/2cm of spacers.
My first was a concours CS - after I got it all I wanted was an Ottrott.
Don't skimp for a few bills - get what you really want.
And for god sake get a nice paint job!


And yes, I will get a proper paint job no matter what I get.

But since you spoke up, I'm going to rely on you for advice. Which means lots and lots of emails. And possibly even unexpected visits to your place.

Be ready.