more tubular questions

[rbtmcardle]

So, I have a beautiful set of wheels built by Ergott and taking the advice of some, I purchased Veloflex Carbons that have been stretching for days. I have searched the forums and read most if not all of the posts regarding gluing up the tires. and I still have this question - I see the latex on the back of the tire and have scraped it off to some degree - but exactly how much needs to be removed, some? most? all? clean cotton? any advice you can give is appreciated - unfortunately our LBS doesnt sell/stock tubulars and I wont ask them since I didnt buy them there
thanks again

[GONE4ARIDE]

You don't say whether you are mounting on carbon rims or aluminum.

The more of the latex that you scrape off to expose the cotton to the glue, the better bond that tire will end up having to the rim. It can be an arduous process, but worth the effort and subsequent piece of mind when diving into corners at high speed.

Good choice of rubber; the Veloflex Carbon's are great tires.

[rbtmcardle]

sorry - 240s with Velocity Escape

[11.4]

Very honestly, Veloflex Carbons don't have much latex to speak of on the base tape. Look at many Vittorias and you see a thick gummy layer that will scrape off in big sticky balls. On Veloflexes, at best it just comes off as powder. I don't think it's worth the effort and usually don't bother to scrape Veloflexes. Even on the track, if I use a Veloflex Record as a track tire, I just don't get enough off without shredding the base tape. This used to be necessary for a lot of tires with very heavy latex base tape coats, but the main culprit these days is Vittoria. Others either have no latex or make sure it's largely calendared off (a scraping method with a roller that removes nearly all of it). Veloflexes are calendared.

[obtuse]

as 11.4 said you don't need to scrape anything. you'll potentially damage the base tape if you do.

obtuse

[Too Tall]

My experience with this tyre...as 11.4 said there is not alot of latex on these tyres however there is some and you need to rough it up so that the glue gets into the base tape. You could leave it alone however it depends on your glue method / skill. If you are adept with very thin multiple coats of glue and the latex is really solid that go with 11.4's advice...leave it. I rough these up and don't worry about getting it all off...just scuff it. Works for me.

Lemme 'splain the prob. with careless gluing eg. big gobs / thick coats etc. If you are sloppy than a great deal of solvent gasses out of the glue and will comprimise the latex / basetape bond and you are deep cha cha. The tyre will separate from the latex leaving behind a contaminated bed of glue (latex + glue) that will haunt you...not to mention it's unsafe.

Hey! BTW good tyres :)

[rbtmcardle]

thanks all for your help

[11.4]

To add to Too Tall's comments, when you apply glue you really need to work it into the fabric. If you just swipe it onto the glue, so it dries on top of the texture of the base tape, it won't do much. I find that using a surgical glove often creates this result. If you really push it in (I use a solder flux brush, 100 of them for about $8 at most industrial supply stores) you almost inevitably need a second coat, but you can be assured the glue won't come off.

[Too Tall]

Kewl 11.4 :) I keep an old Panaracer brush in a can of solvent for that job. I wonder if a toothbrush w/head cut in half would be even better?

FWIIW the worst glue contamination I ever caused was a set of olympics I got with a wheelset that were too old to race. They had Clement (red) glue on them. I stupidly frehened up the glue with panaracer and used them as spares....well when I finally pulled that spare on it left behind all that crappy red cement on my nice clean glue bed and spent alot of effort getting things back to good. Ewwww. The second worst contamination I ever caused was the prev. mentioned latex disaster. Thinking that the latex was solid (it was) and me in a hurry did not let the glue setup and used too much...it comprimised the latex bond to the base tape and when I tested the tyre before riding it broke free of the glue and left behind all that latex nicely bonded (now) to the wheel bed....that was really hard to remove btw.

I'm really smart now because I'm so dumb.

[chrisroph]

Kewl 11.4 :) I keep an old Panaracer brush in a can of solvent for that job. I wonder if a toothbrush w/head cut in half would be even better?

FWIIW the worst glue contamination I ever caused was a set of olympics I got with a wheelset that were too old to race. They had Clement (red) glue on them. I stupidly frehened up the glue with panaracer and used them as spares....well when I finally pulled that spare on it left behind all that crappy red cement on my nice clean glue bed and spent alot of effort getting things back to good. Ewwww. The second worst contamination I ever caused was the prev. mentioned latex disaster. Thinking that the latex was solid (it was) and me in a hurry did not let the glue setup and used too much...it comprimised the latex bond to the base tape and when I tested the tyre before riding it broke free of the glue and left behind all that latex nicely bonded (now) to the wheel bed....that was really hard to remove btw.


I'm really smart now because I'm so dumb.

You've had the best teacher, Professor Experience.

[catulle]

I glued my Veloflex just as they were and haven't had a problem. However, I did apply several thin layers before installing the tubular. Allowing thin layers to dry and a bit of patience result in a very neat job.

[sspielman]

I also have never found it necessary to do much to a Veloflex other than a minor roughing.... I have found that they seem to stick really well when glued with one of the WHITE glues, i.e. Tubasti, Pastali, or Gommitalia...

[oracle]

i'm very suspicious of gluing over the latex on v'flexes. i buy them in bundles, and more often than not, the latex has very little adhesion to the base tape, especially at the edges.

if you are gluing over this weak bond, then you are going to have a poor glue job and an unsafe wheel no matter how hard you try to get it right. i have glued over the latex on some of the tires on which the latex appears to have actually penetrated the fibres of the cotton, making removal of the latex nearly impossible.

the vflex and vittoria latex and application differ dramatically and should be dealt with as differently, in my view. hope that helps....