Planning for our future heirs

[sjbraun]

Among the tasks I'm completing during SIP, is to compile a list of information our kids will need should my wife and I be hit by a meteor on our next tandem ride. Fortunately, both my wife and I have a living parent, so we don't have experience in dealing with an estate after someone dies.
Our kids already have copies of our wills, POAs and Advanced Directives. Our credit union accounts are set up so they can access them upon our deaths and the title to our home is set up so that they assume ownership upon our death. (I can't recall the details, but the property title was set up by our lawyer so as to avoid probate.) They are listed as beneficiaries on all our retirement accounts.
Here's the info I've compiled for them so far.

Social security numbers
Driver's license numbers
Phone, computer, and selected software passwords
Investment account info including account numbers
My pension account info
Credit union account info, safe deposit box number and where to find the key
Floor safe combination
Account numbers for mortgage, utilities, insurance, and credit cards

Have I missed anything? For those of you who have been through this, what info did you wish you had as you settled a parent's estate?

Thanks

[JasonF]

You have a pretty comprehensive list there. House is probably in a trust if it avoids probate....who are the trustees? If it's you and your spouse who are the successor trustees?

One thing to think about is looking into "payable on death" clauses for your banking accounts. This too would avoid probating those assets and is better than simply adding your children as joint owners of the account. In the latter a sprindthrift child could loot the account (not saying that's the case here) or be attached by a child's creditor.

Somewhat humorous estate story: My dad leased cars and my mom does not drive. I would always tell him to lease the car in his sole name only so that if anything happened to him mom wouldn't be on the hook for a car no one would drive. Anyway, he passed away and I called the leasing company to come get the car and we're canceling the contract. The rep on the phone told me it's a liability of his estate. I laughed and said "go ahead and pay a lawyer $10k to recover $5k of remaining lease payments." After a brief pause the rep said "fine, we'll pick up the car but be aware that this will damage your father's credit score." After I stopped chuckling I said "I don't think he will mind."

[sjbraun]

[QUOTE=JasonF;2712725]You have a pretty comprehensive list there. House is probably in a trust if it avoids probate....who are the trustees? If it's you and your spouse who are the successor trustees?

At least in AZ, we were able to accomplish this without creating a trust. Our lawyer said she could establish a trust, but the nature of our assets didn't require one. Ownership of the house transfers without probate.

One thing to think about is looking into "payable on death" clauses for your banking accounts.

Payable upon death, that's what we set up, I just couldn't recall the terminology.

Thanks

[thirdgenbird]

Subscription services
Military info (if applicable)

[AngryScientist]

As someone who has had to go through the probate/estate process completely in the dark, i have to say - this is good thinking and will be much appreciated if it comes to pass, and i'm hoping for you its many decades away!

one thing that would be helpful assuming you own your house and dont live with the kids:

a simple list of routine bills you pay and maintenance items would be appreciated. whoever takes over is going to have to re-organize to pay the house water bill, electric, gas, etc. it would be nice to know who mows the lawn and who plows your driveway - stuff like that. it's not rocket science, but in a stressful situation, one less thing to figure out.

[FlashUNC]

Did you make sure to clearly label all the maps to secret buried treasure?

[Jaybee]

Did you make sure to clearly label all the maps to secret buried treasure?

What fun is that? They should be as confusing and esoteric as possible so that only the kids who really want it get some.

[FlashUNC]

What fun is that? They should be as confusing and esoteric as possible so that only the kids who really want it get some.

National Treasure was an excellent series of films.

[Ozz]

Get your funeral (or whatever) pre-arranged and paid for....

[tumbler]

1.) Accounts and passwords:
These should obviously be kept secure while you are alive, but there needs to be some way for your heirs to gain access to them if/when you pass. We went through this when my father-in-law passed away in 2017. He was not so organized and kept everything either in his head or scribbled on sheets of paper. I can't tell you how stressful it was when we were trying to help my mother-in-law figure out if she could keep her house, pay her bills, etc... when we didn't know what bills and accounts were out there, much less what the passwords were to manage them. One approach is to store the accounts and passwords in a password manager like LastPass, and then store your master password somewhere like a safe deposit box that you can write into your will so your heirs can access it.

2.) Final arrangements
Discussions of burial vs. cremation can be touchy for some people. We had no idea what my father-in-law wanted and were really just guessing. It's quite uncomfortable to make those decisions and potentially upset other family members, so it would be very smart to spell out your final wishes and not put that burden on someone else and potentially have your family members arguing about what you would want (or what they would want).

We all assume that there will be time to figure these things out later, but unfortunately, that is not often the case. Props to you for thinking about this early.

[FlashUNC]

2.) Final arrangements
Discussions of burial vs. cremation can be touchy for some people. We had no idea what my father-in-law wanted and were really just guessing. It's quite uncomfortable to make those decisions and potentially upset other family members, so it would be very smart to spell out your final wishes and not put that burden on someone else and potentially have your family members arguing about what you would want (or what they would want).



100% this.

It's one the reasons I've told loved one I wish to be placed in a Tower of Silence upon my death.

[dave thompson]

A properly drawn up living will can be of enormous help when making considerations for the future.

My somewhat humorous estate story: years ago my wife and I had a living will made, quite detailed, and listing our son as executor. We called him after everything was completed and done to explain what we’d done and his role in it. At the end of the conversation I heard him chuckle as he asked: “So dad, how much are we talkin’ about?”

[Llewellyn]

Get your funeral (or whatever) pre-arranged and paid for....

That's widely regarded as a bad idea that only benefits the funeral company. By all means write down your thoughts about what you might want, and even set aside money for it if you like. Why would you give money to a company to be used for something that might be decades away from happening and the company might not even be around? Not to mention the foregone earnings on what is usually a fair chunk of money.

[sjbraun]

1.)


2.) Final arrangements
Discussions of burial vs. cremation can be touchy for some people. We had no idea what my father-in-law wanted and were really just guessing. It's quite uncomfortable to make those decisions and potentially upset other family members, so it would be very smart to spell out your final wishes and not put that burden on someone else and potentially have your family members arguing about what you would want (or what they would want).

We all assume that there will be time to figure these things out later, but unfortunately, that is not often the case. Props to you for thinking about this early.

We've made our wishes known. I know my wife wants a traditional Jewish burial. I couldn't really care less if I'm cremated or composted. I've told the kids to do whatever seems best to them, at that point, I won't care.

[alfordjo]

There are many reference materials on this topic...

One in particular:

https://www.amazon.com/Final-Chapter-Life-Organizational-Planning/dp/1988925487/ref=sr_1_1?crid=27BRSF8M3Y67K&dchild=1&keywords=suzanne+hooker&qid=1588719722&sprefix=suzanna+hooker%2Caps%2C211&sr=8-1

[C40_guy]

A detailed list of what your bikes are actually worth, versus their "announced" value.

[sjbraun]

A detailed list of what your bikes are actually worth, versus their "announced" value.
LOL, all my bikes have rim brakes, they're worth nothing.

[weisan]

Make sure they can unlock your phone and has the password to log into Paceline forum to let your pals know what's happening!

[rccardr]

Spend the money and talk to a good attorney.
All questions will be answered.

[ORMojo]

If applicable (whether because of the presence of valuable personal property, or because of how that property is to be distributed from the estate), you should provide detailed documentation on provenance & value of any valuable personal property. One of the most time consuming tasks in all four of the estates I have been the executor of was obtaining expert appraisals to establish values. My father made it somewhat easier by doing just what I said above - he had several folders full of detailed descriptions of every piece of art, every antique, etc., including provenance and acquisition cost. I still had to use several appraisers for his estate, but that documentation helped them a lot (and made a huge difference in the case of an original signed Ansel Adams photograph that had been a personal gift from him to my grandfather some 40 years earlier), and provided me with a reference point for the appraised values.

[2LeftCleats]

How to pay utilities and mortgage while your estate is settled.

[Llewellyn]

Spend the money and talk to a good attorney.
All questions will be answered.

Good advice. I'm a great believer in leaving nothing on the table when you pop your clogs.

[gasman]

Somewhat humorous estate story: My dad leased cars and my mom does not drive. I would always tell him to lease the car in his sole name only so that if anything happened to him mom wouldn't be on the hook for a car no one would drive. Anyway, he passed away and I called the leasing company to come get the car and we're canceling the contract. The rep on the phone told me it's a liability of his estate. I laughed and said "go ahead and pay a lawyer $10k to recover $5k of remaining lease payments." After a brief pause the rep said "fine, we'll pick up the car but be aware that this will damage your father's credit score." After I stopped chuckling I said "I don't think he will mind."

Thanks for the story I needed a good laugh.

[jb_11]

Among the tasks I'm completing during SIP, is to compile a list of information our kids will need should my wife and I be hit by a meteor on our next tandem ride. Fortunately, both my wife and I have a living parent, so we don't have experience in dealing with an estate after someone dies.
Our kids already have copies of our wills, POAs and Advanced Directives. Our credit union accounts are set up so they can access them upon our deaths and the title to our home is set up so that they assume ownership upon our death. (I can't recall the details, but the property title was set up by our lawyer so as to avoid probate.) They are listed as beneficiaries on all our retirement accounts.
Here's the info I've compiled for them so far.

Social security numbers
Driver's license numbers
Phone, computer, and selected software passwords
Investment account info including account numbers
My pension account info
Credit union account info, safe deposit box number and where to find the key
Floor safe combination
Account numbers for mortgage, utilities, insurance, and credit cards

Have I missed anything? For those of you who have been through this, what info did you wish you had as you settled a parent's estate?

Thanks

On the safe deposit box, they may need to be added to the signature card at the bank to gain access independently. If not, the bank may need to inventory the contents for probate (that may be the wrong term?).

If you have items of value that may not be obvious to the average person, you may want to identify them for your heirs as well as a venue to sell them (ahem, rare or eclectic bike collection). If they don't share your hobby they may not know what they're holding when you're gone. When my dad passed he had a number of items that were high value, but limited or specialized market. Fortunately for my mother, a friend of his stepped in and helped her sell them off without fleecing her.

[C40_guy]

If you have items of value that may not be obvious to the average person, you may want to identify them for your heirs as well as a venue to sell them (ahem, rare or eclectic bike collection). If they don't share your hobby they may not know what they're holding when you're gone. When my dad passed he had a number of items that were high value, but limited or specialized market. Fortunately for my mother, a friend of his stepped in and helped her sell them off without fleecing her.

Or not sell...

A riding buddy passed away about ten years ago, after battling cancer. We had ridden the Pan Mass Challenge (cancer fundraising event) together a number of years, and his wife asked me to figure out what to do with his Merlin.

So I stuck it in my basement. She didn't need the $, shortterm, and I had other projects on my plate.

A few years later, my family and hers (two young adult children) were all out to dinner the night before the charity ride. She had been volunteering with my wife. Her daughter announces that maybe next year she'd like to ride the PMC. She had never ridden a bike as an adult, didn't even own one....

I looked at her and said "I think I have a bike for you." Then everyone around the table realized that I was talking about her *dad's* bike.

I guess there was a reason i never got around to selling that Merlin. She's still riding it!

[NHAero]

How perfect is that!
Or not sell...

A riding buddy passed away about ten years ago, after battling cancer. We had ridden the Pan Mass Challenge (cancer fundraising event) together a number of years, and his wife asked me to figure out what to do with his Merlin.

So I stuck it in my basement. She didn't need the $, shortterm, and I had other projects on my plate.

A few years later, my family and hers (two young adult children) were all out to dinner the night before the charity ride. She had been volunteering with my wife. Her daughter announces that maybe next year she'd like to ride the PMC. She had never ridden a bike as an adult, didn't even own one....

I looked at her and said "I think I have a bike for you." Then everyone around the table realized that I was talking about her *dad's* bike.

I guess there was a reason i never got around to selling that Merlin. She's still riding it!

[fmradio516]

Or not sell...

A riding buddy passed away about ten years ago, after battling cancer. We had ridden the Pan Mass Challenge (cancer fundraising event) together a number of years, and his wife asked me to figure out what to do with his Merlin.

So I stuck it in my basement. She didn't need the $, shortterm, and I had other projects on my plate.

A few years later, my family and hers (two young adult children) were all out to dinner the night before the charity ride. She had been volunteering with my wife. Her daughter announces that maybe next year she'd like to ride the PMC. She had never ridden a bike as an adult, didn't even own one....

I looked at her and said "I think I have a bike for you." Then everyone around the table realized that I was talking about her *dad's* bike.

I guess there was a reason i never got around to selling that Merlin. She's still riding it!

awesome!!

[jb_11]

Or not sell...

A riding buddy passed away about ten years ago, after battling cancer. We had ridden the Pan Mass Challenge (cancer fundraising event) together a number of years, and his wife asked me to figure out what to do with his Merlin.

So I stuck it in my basement. She didn't need the $, shortterm, and I had other projects on my plate.

A few years later, my family and hers (two young adult children) were all out to dinner the night before the charity ride. She had been volunteering with my wife. Her daughter announces that maybe next year she'd like to ride the PMC. She had never ridden a bike as an adult, didn't even own one....

I looked at her and said "I think I have a bike for you." Then everyone around the table realized that I was talking about her *dad's* bike.

I guess there was a reason i never got around to selling that Merlin. She's still riding it!

That is awesome, and good on you for stepping in to help out.

Back to my original comment and what you referenced as well, I just recalled the joke about it. "I hope when I'm gone my wife doesn't sell my bikes (or insert any specialty item) for what I told her I paid for them!"

[Clean39T]

Make sure they can unlock your phone and has the password to log into Paceline forum to let your pals know what's happening!

This is an unfortunate reality..

A long-time valued member of the Weight-Weenie Forum community ("Calnago") passed a while ago, and it took quite a while for folks there to know what happened and post their condolences and remembrances - when they did, it was quite touching - and I don't know if his/their family is/was even aware of the time and contribution he made to that community or the lives he touched in a positive way through his engaging posts. There are certainly similar holes that would be left here when any of us go.

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=159595

For those interested, Calnago also posted here, though much less frequently:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/search.php?searchid=4710178

Tailwinds.

[Dunk]

A health care directive and a discussion about its contents. Unfortunately not every death is just falling asleep in your own bed and not waking up. Make sure they know what heroics or not you want and are willing to fight for them. Especially on the I don’t want any heroics side. Don’t ask me how I know this. :(

[johnmdesigner]

Since you are doing this for yourselves make sure that the living parents also have these things set up.
You will probably have to take care of them first.

[johnmdesigner]

I can't stress enough - in the case of your elderly parents make sure all of your siblings (If any) are on board as to who is responsible for what when that day comes and decisions need to be made. Don't wait until the day it happens.
You are being very pro active and I applaud your efforts. I only wish my parents had done the same.

[C40_guy]

I can't stress enough - in the case of your elderly parents make sure all of your siblings (If any) are on board as to who is responsible for what when that day comes and decisions need to be made. Don't wait until the day it happens.
You are being very pro active and I applaud your efforts. I only wish my parents had done the same.

Two immediate things to put in place for parents, you/spouse, your adult children... (probably don't need DPOA for spouse)

Health care proxy seems to be set up state by state, although forms look very similar. Need two adult witnesses for this form.

Durable power of attorney looks to be pretty standard, needs to be notarized. Not surprisingly, this can be done via the web now. I found notarize.com as one provider, I'm sure there are others...

[Skenry]

I'm mostly worried about making sure my buddy can get in here and catastrophically wipe the hard drives on all my computers and phones if I die before the lady does.

We took the oath to protect each other even in death.

[benb]

A lot of things have been covered but one that I saw mentioned in a book is that you should have a letter explaining everything, and you need to make sure one of your surviving relatives actually has the ability to get into your house and find it.

My wife & I have most of our t's crossed and i's dotted but this is one thing we don't have and I know my parents don't either, and discussions about it with my parents didn't go anywhere.

Yay, you have a will, power of attorney, whatever.. wrote a list of accounts, whatever. But your heirs/executors need to actually be able to find a copy of your plan.

Even if the lawyer can handle it.. the heirs/executors need to know who the lawyer is unless the lawyer is going to know you died and make the first step.

My mother said something stupid to me like "it's all in the fireproof document box", but I and my siblings:
- don't necessarily even have a key to the house
- know where the safety box is hidden
- where is the key to the box?

Before the conversation did I even know the box existed? I would not even have had the conversation with her if not for reading the book.

[Clean39T]

A lot of things have been covered but one that I saw mentioned in a book is that you should have a letter explaining everything, and you need to make sure one of your surviving relatives actually has the ability to get into your house and find it.

My wife & I have most of our t's crossed and i's dotted but this is one thing we don't have and I know my parents don't either, and discussions about it with my parents didn't go anywhere.

Yay, you have a will, power of attorney, whatever.. wrote a list of accounts, whatever. But your heirs/executors need to actually be able to find a copy of your plan.

Even if the lawyer can handle it.. the heirs/executors need to know who the lawyer is unless the lawyer is going to know you died and make the first step.

My mother said something stupid to me like "it's all in the fireproof document box", but I and my siblings:
- don't necessarily even have a key to the house
- know where the safety box is hidden
- where is the key to the box?

Before the conversation did I even know the box existed? I would not even have had the conversation with her if not for reading the book.

What's the book?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[sjbraun]

A lot of things have been covered but one that I saw mentioned in a book is that you should have a letter explaining everything, and you need to make sure one of your surviving relatives actually has the ability to get into your house and find it.

My wife & I have most of our t's crossed and i's dotted but this is one thing we don't have and I know my parents don't either, and discussions about it with my parents didn't go anywhere.

Yay, you have a will, power of attorney, whatever.. wrote a list of accounts, whatever. But your heirs/executors need to actually be able to find a copy of your plan.

Even if the lawyer can handle it.. the heirs/executors need to know who the lawyer is unless the lawyer is going to know you died and make the first step.

My mother said something stupid to me like "it's all in the fireproof document box", but I and my siblings:
- don't necessarily even have a key to the house
- know where the safety box is hidden
- where is the key to the box?

Before the conversation did I even know the box existed? I would not even have had the conversation with her if not for reading the book.

Our kids have keys to our home and they have copies of all will, MPOAs, etc.
Thanks

[benb]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S58L455/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o08?ie=UTF8&psc=1

We have talked to the author but are not clients.

The book is full of stuff relevant to this thread.

His focus is a little different.. most advisers (including ours) are more concerned with maximizing your wealth & savings.

He's more focused on how much do you actually need, what do you want your lifestyle to be in retirement, helping retired couples figure out the best way to withdraw their money to live off, stuff like that.

Most of it is stuff my wife and I are too young for.. but it was a good read.

[ORMojo]

A lot of things have been covered but one that I saw mentioned in a book is that you should have a letter explaining everything, and you need to make sure one of your surviving relatives actually has the ability to get into your house and find it.

My wife & I have most of our t's crossed and i's dotted but this is one thing we don't have and I know my parents don't either, and discussions about it with my parents didn't go anywhere.

Yay, you have a will, power of attorney, whatever.. wrote a list of accounts, whatever. But your heirs/executors need to actually be able to find a copy of your plan.

Even if the lawyer can handle it.. the heirs/executors need to know who the lawyer is unless the lawyer is going to know you died and make the first step.

My mother said something stupid to me like "it's all in the fireproof document box", but I and my siblings:
- don't necessarily even have a key to the house
- know where the safety box is hidden
- where is the key to the box?

Before the conversation did I even know the box existed? I would not even have had the conversation with her if not for reading the book.

And this is why I have possession, in my safe deposit box, of all of my elderly mother's documents. Not to mention that, if she had retained possession, she is prone to moving things around and then losing track of where they are. This is an option that should be considered - if someone has already designated an executor and/or granted power of attorney, turn over possession of documents to that person.

[paredown]

Good discussion--and I wanted to stress the digital side (as I have before)--after our experience helping to clean up and deal with the estate of a fellow who passed away suddenly.

It was a nightmare--he was doing almost everything online, encrypted this, and private email that, and also was a hoarder.

The poor brother who was his closest heir never really did get to the bottom of what happened to his money, and my friend who was in charge spent 10 months part time going through the mountains of paper in the apartment--trying to reconstruct the paper trail what he had been doing online, and most of which was inaccessible to the brother.

So--passwords up to date and in one place, to online accounts especially.

We started a "Critical Docs" folder on our main backup, where we have scanned copies of important papers like marriage license, INS stuff, work visas, major sales, house deeds etc etc. Also military and other pensions... The copies may not be admissible, but they help the process for who ever is cleaning up.

And please, please, please stay up to date digitally--wipe old computers, and do the digital housekeeping along with the stuff that we do as routine for cleaning our physical environment. (I got one of the old computers that was dead from this chap, and got it working, only to find that I had access to his online accounts--and I have had that experience before with computers left curb-side....)