OT: Transmission Issue, maybe? 4Runner

[mtb_frk]

So we have a 2012 4runner. It has a lot of miles on it, but it has been pretty much problem free. This morning, wife gets in the car and it won't move. So, if I put it in gear either forward or reverse, i can feel it go into gear, and when you take your foot off the brake it wants to move a little bit, but it feels like the parking brake is on and doesn't move any more than that little tiny bit. I washed it and sprayed it down pretty good this weekend and got in the wheels and under it with the hose sprayer but it was fine when i pulled it back in the garage.

I posted on a 4 runner forum but haven't got many much response, and figured I would try here to see if anyone had any thoughts.

[Louis]

Brake pads frozen onto rotors due to washing?

Usually the motor's strong enough to break that loose.

If you have a strong enough floor jack you could disengage the 4WD (I assume that can be done on that vehicle) put it in neutral, jack up the front then the back and see if the wheels spin (when turned by hand, but I suppose you could try to have the engine do it too). Be sure to chock the tires well.

That's my only guess.

[AngryScientist]

let's start with obvious eliminations: have you checked that the transmission fluid is filled? how does the fluid look/smell?

report back

[p nut]

Is that the gen 4Runner without a transmission dip stick? I’d check the fluid first. The 5-sp auto transmission is pretty solid though. Unless you towed heavy loads, they usually last a long time.

Have you done regular transmission maintenance on it? Changed the fluid?

Also, a dumb question, but did you make sure the transfer case lever isn’t in N?

[mtb_frk]

i was thinking i could put it in neutral and see if i could push it a bit, but jacking it up might be easier.

We had it in a month ago or so ago and they said the trans fluid is good, I was looking for the dip stick to check the fluid but couldn't find it so Im assuming you are right it doesn't have one. My wife started to notice the toyota rumble strip trans shudder, but it was pretty sporadic and most people say it is pretty common.

[p nut]

Yes, “sealed” transmission that’s supposed to have lifetime fluid, which is bogus. If they checked the fluid, make sure they tightened up the fill plug.

[dddd]

I've learned a whole lot about Toyota automatic transmission issues at Toyota Nation Forum.

The transmissions from before 2015 that develop shudder usually get flooded with debris shed from the torque converter Flex Lock clutch.

It seems that quite a number of posters reported that something went wrong soon after they had their transmission serviced, and the use of incorrect "universal" fluids and incorrect (as in checked at the wrong temperature) fluid level are the usual suspects.

These transmissions also have electric solenoids that can fail just like any other electrical component. Fortunately these issues can be repaired with the transmission left in the vehicle.

It sounds like you might have something wrong with the shift linkage whether it is mechanical or electrical in function. I would check the drain plug though as p nut suggested.

[mtb_frk]

Thanks, any idea where the drain plug is? If it was leaking would it leak while it’s parked or only while the vehicle is running?

[ultraman6970]

If you have a small leak in the tranny case honestly wont be enough for that to just loose so much fluid that the tranny wont work, the only way for that to happen is if u have a tranny line broken or if the line disconnected but since the pressure is really big you should see tons of red oil in the tranny area or somewhere.

I do not know if you guys park the car using the hand brake besides using putting the car in neutral. If you guys use it then the cable or something happened in the hand brake that keeps them locked. Easy to test tho... do not turn the engine, just put the car in neutral and push it, obviously get the hand brake (parking brake) off so is not locking the wheels. If you cant move the car with the parking brake off and the tranny in neutral then something is going on with the parking brake IMO.

As for the regular brakes, is hard to tell because depending on the car if you put the pedal in the gas down to the bottom the car can move a little. Did you try "pedal to the metal"??? ? if moved then the regular brakes are seized. The hand brake once is on even in buses no matter how hard to press the gas the vehicle wont move.

Hope this helps.

ps: i do not think you have a tranny problem at all, specially if you have oil in there, just check it out if you have tranny oil... the link is about the stuck parking brake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=757&v=GGlwymH7Wio&feature=emb_logo

[dddd]

Thanks, any idea where the drain plug is? If it was leaking would it leak while it’s parked or only while the vehicle is running?

On many cars nowadays, there will be a plastic shield covering the under-engine area. This would have to be removed first.

But if the oil/fluid leaked out, there would be gross evidence of same, oil dripping from the shielding and plenty on the ground since there was much fluid in it when it was driven to it's current resting spot.

Is the car parked on a slope or level?

The oil/fluid level issue I mentioned earlier occurs when the transmission fluid level is checked with the temperature too high and thus with the fluid in an expanded state. So the fluid level ends up too low for proper functioning. Even dealers have been known to under-fill these transmissions, since the transmission is both cooled and quickly heated by the engine coolant to a much higher temperature (~180F) than the correct level-checking temperature (104F).

I knew someone who owned an Acura that one morning acted exactly as you have described. It turned out that some "hub" part inside the transmission gave up the ghost that morning as the car was put into reverse.

[pasadena]

Is it RWD or 4WD?

Check a few basics:
1. brake lights working- if not, burnt bulb or faulty circuit- check fuses
2. shift interlock - put a key in the slot to release the shifter -slot next to P
3. trans shift cable broken ( you can crawl under and look and feel for it)
4. if 4wd, is the tcase in N? toggle between 2wd, 4lo, 4hi
can you hear it work? possible broken solenoid

[mtb_frk]

So it’s an auto and we never use the parking brake. I did try engaging it and disengaging the pbrake without any change in outcome. I am assuming if it was to fail it would wouldn’t engage if it wasn’t already active.

[pasadena]

So it’s an auto and we never use the parking brake. I did try engaging it and disengaging the pbrake without any change in outcome. I am assuming if it was to fail it would wouldn’t engage if it wasn’t already active.

not the parking brake.
P in the PRNDL -there is a keyhole slot next to P

[AngryScientist]

there are a whole bunch of things it can be, as mentioned, troubleshooting a few should be simple:

make a list, go to your driveway and try the following:

1) put the transfer case in 4L - does this do anything for you?
2)under the truck - look at the u-joints at the rear diff and transfer case, make sure they are intact. if you chock the wheels and are feeling brave, have someone else put the car in drive and see if there is any movement of the driveshaft at all.
3) there has to be a fill plug for the trans fluid somwhere. in my mind the most important thing you need to verify is that there is ample trans fluid in there.

[pbarry]

My bet is on an electrical issue with the sudden onset of the problem. If it’s automatic, some cars won’t move if the brake is not depressed when shifting out of Park, that relay and sensor can fail. If you have a creeper or can shimmy underneath, I’d check any relays/wires/connections on the outside of the tranny case. You should be able to find a drawing of the transmission case and wiring placement online. With a thorough washing, a connector may have been dislodged or broken. A bad connection should activate a warning light, but it’s worth checking visually.

[mtb_frk]

So I put it in neutral with the car off or running and can not budge it, well I can rock it a bit but it won’t roll. So I started it back up and pumped the brakes a number of times and put it into drive. Something sounded like a slight pop and it broke free and moved. I think it sounded like a brake pad was stuck and then let go. So looking at the calipers I can see a rusty brake pad shaped mark on them as if they were engaged and stuck.

Now I’m still a bit nervous about the torque converter and the rumble strip sensation. But I’m happy this problem seems to be solved.

The breadth of knowledge of the Paceline always amazes me.

[Louis]

Woooo Hoooo !!!!

What did I win?

Edit: BTW, whenever I give a car a good wash, be it in a "Car Wash" or at home, I always take it out for at least a 15 minute drive afterwards, preferably up to highway speeds for a while. That dries out the motor and everything else and is generally good for the vehicle.

[mtb_frk]

Haha. The satisfaction of saving me a few hundred dollars to have it looked at and towed. I should tell my wife that with all the money I saved I should be able to get a new bike or something.

Seriously thanks for everyone’s responses.

[ultraman6970]

Brakes were stuck then... look, IME is really rare that a modern transmission dies, specially those toyota ones, if they fail usually is because of electronic, not mechanical problems.

The last toyota i had used red tranny oil and that thing had to be changed every year... im not famliar with the car you have but this is what i would do... check if the tranny oil is red, if not red just drain it and put new oil in there.

The 4 runner has a plug so just open that thing, drain it and put exactly the same ammount that you got off. If you want to swap the filter you can do that too. Do not flush it ok? some cars do not like to be flushed. I imagine you will get like 2 gallons out... the other way is using the cooler lines and that way you can get more oil out. Another way is to pay for it...

If you can do some trouble shooting, get the rear wheels out and the drums (if has drums) out and check it out, it might be that some parts need lubrication and nothing is broken, just a visual inspection.

Happy you got the car under control, have my car broken since last december :/ I know whats wrong with mine and just waiting for better weather to come to sit there to fix it :)

[clyde the point]

Still have a stuck or sticking caliper right?

[JAGI410]

IME is really rare that a modern transmission dies

Unless its a GM 4L60E. Those die without warning.

[mtb_frk]

Any ideas why it would get stuck and rust to the caliper? It was only about 4 days of sitting. We had the brakes done back in the fall.

[Louis]

Any ideas why it would get stuck and rust to the caliper? It was only about 4 days of sitting. We had the brakes done back in the fall.

The only thing I can think of is that the brakes were cold and wet when you went from the driveway to the garage to park the car. Normally when you get home from a drive and it's been raining the brakes are somewhat warm (after all, that's their only purpose in life, to convert kinetic energy into heat) so when you park the car in the garage maybe they dry off a bit before they have a chance of rusting to the rotor.

It could be that the calipers are starting to stick a bit, so the piston doesn't retract as much as it should, which might make it more likely to rust to the rotor. One way to check for that would be to drive for a while then put your hand on each wheel, close to the center. If it's anything other than slightly warmish to the touch the pad's rubbing more than it should, most likely because the caliper piston isn't retracting well. An improperly adjusted hand-brake cable can also cause the pads to rub.

[p nut]

The mechanic may not have greased the slide pins. Or one of your pistons are seizing. I don’t think it’s cold enough for anything to get frozen to the rotor.

[Louis]

The mechanic may not have greased the slide pins. Or one of your pistons are seizing. I don’t think it’s cold enough for anything to get frozen to the rotor.

I wasn't thinking ice (especially parked in a garage) but rust.

I've seen caliper-shaped rust-marks on rotors too, so it's known to happen.