Order of operations: Frame Prep → Frame saver?

[Look585]

When assembling a new steel frame, would you:

Frame Prep¹ → Frame Saver
(or)
Frame Saver → Frame Prep¹

¹Frame prep will include face&ream HT, face&chase BB, mill crownrace seat, ream/hone seat tube.

[fmradio516]

id frame saver last.

[dave thompson]

Yup, FrameSaver is the last operation of the frame prep and before build up.

[Velocipede]

I do frame prep first and then frame saver. I take a rag with some degreaser to clean the BB threads/face and headtube a bit. Then just spin the dies in to clean out the threads after. It's pretty fast and you can do it with fingers, don't even need the handles.

[stephenmarklay]

As a side note you will save a little money using this:

https://www.amazon.com/CRC-06026-Heavy-Corrosion-Inhibitor/dp/B0000AXYA0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2G4MRAKO13XCC&dchild=1&keywords=crc+heavy+duty+corrosion+inhibitor&qid=1588111673&sprefix=crc+Heaven%2Caps%2C274&sr=8-1

[thwart]

As a side note you will save a little money using this:

https://www.amazon.com/CRC-06026-Heavy-Corrosion-Inhibitor/dp/B0000AXYA0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2G4MRAKO13XCC&dchild=1&keywords=crc+heavy+duty+corrosion+inhibitor&qid=1588111673&sprefix=crc+Heaven%2Caps%2C274&sr=8-1

Good to know.

I wasn't aware that Mr. Weigle had sold the formula and rights to his famous stuff; it is now owned by QBP. You can buy a can at Velo Orange for $12.50... even cheaper than the above.

https://velo-orange.com/products/weigle-frame-saver

[dave thompson]

Sorry to see Mr Weigle’s name is no longer on the product.

[wallymann]

i was never impressed with framesaver. i've been using amsoil HDMP and it does the business.

the project farm guys on YT did a corrosion-inhibitor comparison and fluid film came out on top, besting even HDMP.

when i run out, this will be my move.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PWZ0XNM

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61pSWbBjUTL._AC_SS350_.jpg

[Velocipede]

Good to know.

I wasn't aware that Mr. Weigle had sold the formula and rights to his famous stuff; it is now owned by QBP. You can buy a can at Velo Orange for $12.50... even cheaper than the above.

https://velo-orange.com/products/weigle-frame-saver

Sorry to see Mr Weigle’s name is no longer on the product.

He sold it quite some time ago. And it's not the same. It's much thinner, runnier. It also does not dry as well. Not sure what's up with it. But it's not the same. A number of other people have told me they feel the same.

the project farm guys on YT did a corrosion-inhibitor comparison and fluid film came out on top:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PWZ0XNM

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61pSWbBjUTL._AC_SS350_.jpg

Excellent to know. Cause I'm not a big fan of Frame Saver anymore. I'll have to get some of this and try it.

[AngryScientist]

as i've mentioned before, marine grade corrosion inhibitor is excellent stuff and made for parts that are routinely exposed to salt water spray, which is obviously more demanding of an environment than bike parts are exposed to.

lots of really good stuff available.

any good marine supply store will have a few on the shelf.

currently i'm loving Yamaha yamashield. (i own a yamaha waverunner)

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41RRD4lwVqL._SX385_.jpg

[stephenmarklay]

The QBP brand is what I have used for about 5 years. I had framesaver at the same time and they looked, flowed and smelled the same. I am not sure when the sale went through but they have been the same product at least since that point.

I found the QBP product in a similar marine “Corrosion Shootout.” It was the winner in that test.

I used it over two winters on a motorcycle I road all year, in the snow with chemical deicer on the roads.

I sprayed the frame, wheels really everything I could and it worked great. In spring it cleaned up with WD-40.

It is good stuff.

[gbcoupe]

Just bought some frame saver at my LBS this past year. I'll have to see if he has more NOS.

[Velocipede]

The QBP brand is what I have used for about 5 years. I had framesaver at the same time and they looked, flowed and smelled the same. I am not sure when the sale went through but they have been the same product at least since that point.

I found the QBP product in a similar marine “Corrosion Shootout.” It was the winner in that test.

I used it over two winters on a motorcycle I road all year, in the snow with chemical deicer on the roads.

I sprayed the frame, wheels really everything I could and it worked great. In spring it cleaned up with WD-40.

It is good stuff.

I first started using it in 94 and went thru many a can into 2007. Every steel frame, even cheap mountain bikes I sold I would strip and spray. It smells the same but it's much thinner than the pre-QBP version. Q has owned it for about 8 years now. I mentioned it to Mr. Weigle back in 2014 at NAHBS and he mentioned he had no hand in it anymore. But QBP still sells cans with the JP Weigle red/white labels on it. The last 6 I bought still had those labels. I go thru about 14-15 cans a year.

[stephenmarklay]

I first started using it in 94 and went thru many a can into 2007. Every steel frame, even cheap mountain bikes I sold I would strip and spray. It smells the same but it's much thinner than the pre-QBP version. Q has owned it for about 8 years now. I mentioned it to Mr. Weigle back in 2014 at NAHBS and he mentioned he had no hand in it anymore. But QBP still sells cans with the JP Weigle red/white labels on it. The last 6 I bought still had those labels. I go thru about 14-15 cans a year.


Thank you or the information Velocipede.

[Velocipede]

Thank you or the information Velocipede.

No worries. I'm bummed it's not the same. It takes much much longer to dry. Since it's so thin now, you need to do it more than once and end up with a lot of wasted liquid. You can see how much is in the bottom of the box. This was a recent pair I just did.

[froze]

But doesn't that spray stuff have to be reapplied at LEAST every season?

You can also go down and get linseed oil and does the same thing for less money.

All you really need to do is put a thin layer of automotive grease on the seat tube and the seat post, slide it in and wipe off any excess and that will prevent water from seeping into the frame at that point. Also put a little dab on water bottle cage screws. Seals today in the headset and the bottom bracket are really very good at sealing out water so those areas should be fine.

My oldest steel bike is 36 years old with no rust on it or in it, it spend the first 20 years along the coast of S California, and the rest of time in N Indiana. I just bought a new steel bike but I'm not going to treat it all because it will probably out last me! 30 years from now I'll be 97 so I doubt I will be riding at that age, and I'm certain it won't rust out before then.

Funny thing is about this rusting out stuff, I've seen cheap crappy kids Walmart bikes being stored outside on the ground in the backyards of peoples homes in Indian, and they lay there all year in rain, snow or sun, and those bikes aren't rusting out either.

I guess if the bike is one of those handmade custom build $10,000 steel bikes I would probably treat it for no reason other than to make sure I could hand it down to my grandkids, but I doubt it would even have any rust starting if I didn't do that.

When I bought my Mercian in 07, the Mercian folk treated the bike for free, but I sure wasn't going to keep reapplying it every few months.

The only bike I ever had that rusted was a 1978 or 9 Schwinn Traveller that I actually rode on wet salty ocean sand, and because of the waves it would get a healthy dosing of salty ocean water on each ride. Sure I went home and rinsed it off each time, but in about a 25 year period the aluminum components were badly corroded and the inside of the bottom bracket shell was rusted out pretty bad, so I junked the bike. But I doubt any frame savier stuff would have prevented that abuse.

At the end of the day you have to do what you feel comfortable with, I feel just as comfortable not doing anything other than the grease stuff I mentioned.

[Jef58]

I believe Framesaver is very similar if not the same as the rust preventing coating on machine tools during shipment. This stuff was called Cosmoline. We always had a small drum of it to put in pump sprayers if machines were getting stored or relocated. It is a waxy brown petroleum coating.

[stephenmarklay]

But doesn't that spray stuff have to be reapplied at LEAST every season?

You can also go down and get linseed oil and does the same thing for less money.

All you really need to do is put a thin layer of automotive grease on the seat tube and the seat post, slide it in and wipe off any excess and that will prevent water from seeping into the frame at that point. Also put a little dab on water bottle cage screws. Seals today in the headset and the bottom bracket are really very good at sealing out water so those areas should be fine.

My oldest steel bike is 36 years old with no rust on it or in it, it spend the first 20 years along the coast of S California, and the rest of time in N Indiana. I just bought a new steel bike but I'm not going to treat it all because it will probably out last me! 30 years from now I'll be 97 so I doubt I will be riding at that age, and I'm certain it won't rust out before then.

Funny thing is about this rusting out stuff, I've seen cheap crappy kids Walmart bikes being stored outside on the ground in the backyards of peoples homes in Indian, and they lay there all year in rain, snow or sun, and those bikes aren't rusting out either.

I guess if the bike is one of those handmade custom build $10,000 steel bikes I would probably treat it for no reason other than to make sure I could hand it down to my grandkids, but I doubt it would even have any rust starting if I didn't do that.

When I bought my Mercian in 07, the Mercian folk treated the bike for free, but I sure wasn't going to keep reapplying it every few months.

The only bike I ever had that rusted was a 1978 or 9 Schwinn Traveller that I actually rode on wet salty ocean sand, and because of the waves it would get a healthy dosing of salty ocean water on each ride. Sure I went home and rinsed it off each time, but in about a 25 year period the aluminum components were badly corroded and the inside of the bottom bracket shell was rusted out pretty bad, so I junked the bike. But I doubt any frame savier stuff would have prevented that abuse.

At the end of the day you have to do what you feel comfortable with, I feel just as comfortable not doing anything other than the grease stuff I mentioned.

As above, the spray typically needs to be applied once.

[froze]

As above, the spray typically needs to be applied once.

I can't find much on the internet but what I did find is the recommendation to reapply every 6 months.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqaU7LaHsk0

Of course if the can of contents weighs 4.75 ounces and you spray about a third to half of the can, which is what you're suppose to do, you will increase the weight of your bike by that many ounces.

Here supposedly is the best way to use the stuff; and you need to do it outside since it's a bit toxic:

http://www.bikesherpas.com/2012/01/how-to-treat-steel-frame-with-jp.html

Then I found this saying you need to respray every two years IF the frame has small openings:

Reply by Cincicycles on January 26, 2009 at 7:23pm
Frame saver is the way to go. Easy to use. Hit all your tubes if they are not sealed every 2 years. Seat tube once a year if you get into the muck.

The above comment was found here: https://cowbell.cxmagazine.com/forum/topics/frame-saver?page=1&commentId=1198434%3AComment%3A23795&x=1#1198434Comment23795

There's another metal protectant that is similar to Frame Saver called LPS 3 they also recommend reapplying it every 2 years.

So I would go with the every 2 years recommendations, if the frame is not sealed, from the two sources that I found.

[jemoryl]

I can't imagine why one would need to apply Frame Saver more than once to a new frame - it leaves a waxy coating that I can still see inside the tubes of a frame I treated 10 years ago. And the weight added is probably a lot less than a third of 4.75 oz since those are fluid ounces (and the density is probably less than 1 g/ml) and there is clearly some sort of solvent that evaporates. The original Weigle product is very similar to a product sold to spray inside car panels as a sealant.

[froze]

I can't imagine why one would need to apply Frame Saver more than once to a new frame - it leaves a waxy coating that I can still see inside the tubes of a frame I treated 10 years ago. And the weight added is probably a lot less than a third of 4.75 oz since those are fluid ounces (and the density is probably less than 1 g/ml) and there is clearly some sort of solvent that evaporates. The original Weigle product is very similar to a product sold to spray inside car panels as a sealant.

Ziebart undercoating is what I think you are referring to for cars. While Ziebart charges for the additional application of $400 or so, you do get a lifetime warranty with the coating...EXCEPT there is one small problem, in order to keep that lifetime warranty for life you have to go back once a year to have it checked, that will cost about $100, which includes respraying any areas they find that need attention.

But the underside of car is exposed to the elements a bicycle frame not so much which is why I believe that the websites I gave earlier suggest redoing it every so many years.

AGAIN, if for some reason you are really paranoid about this rust issue destroying your bike frame than you should reappply it every so often. I have yet to have any steel bike that I didn't abuse by riding it in the ocean remotely get any rust inside or out. I have several steel bikes from the mid 80's all rust free, I even have a mid 80's steel mountain bike that I abused riding it all sorts of weather and crossing streams, but not on the ocean, however it too is rust free.

Unless you plan on riding your bike either on salted snowy roads, along an ocean beach, or putting the bike on a boat out on the ocean, you really don't need to treat it. And if you plan on doing either of those three things with your bike I would look into either stainless steel frame or titanium frame and not worry about rust and or corrosion.

I'm not paranoid about my steel bike rusting, but that's me, if you feel more at peace mentally if you treat it than do so, so you can sleep at nights. By the way, Sheldon Brown use to ride a 1918 Ranger (?) that had a rust patina over the entire frame, this bike was made of gas pipe, he rode that bike to work all the time till he passed and he never treated the frame.