OT: Any other parents of high school seniors?

[kevinvc]

My son was having a great time with his last year of high school when all this hit. No spring sports, hanging with friends, prom, official graduation, or even any of the silly senior night stuff. He's a really social and active kid and this is just devastating to him. We've promised to do something special for him when it's safe to do so, but that's small comfort.

He's also trying to figure out his plans for this fall. He's been accepted to the University of Oregon and was planning on moving into the dorms in September. It's very reasonable to think the school year is going to be disrupted and he really doesn't want his first year of college to be on-line. We're talking about maybe doing a gap year, maybe take a class or two at the local community college, save some money and try again in 2021.

He has other friends that are in the same situation and considering similar plans, although a few of them have been awarded really good scholarships that will not carry over if they don't start this fall.

We're trying to keep his spirits up and help him muddle through his options, but it's tough on the guy. Anyone else there is a similar spot?

[JasonF]

He's also trying to figure out his plans for this fall. He's been accepted to the University of Oregon and was planning on moving into the dorms in September. It's very reasonable to think the school year is going to be disrupted and he really doesn't want his first year of college to be on-line. We're talking about maybe doing a gap year, maybe take a class or two at the local community college, save some money and try again in 2021.

He has other friends that are in the same situation and considering similar plans, although a few of them have been awarded really good scholarships that will not carry over if they don't start this fall.

We're trying to keep his spirits up and help him muddle through his options, but it's tough on the guy. Anyone else there is a similar spot?

What a coincidence: my nephew (who lives in New Hampshire) was also accepted to Oregon and it's his first choice by a longshot. He's debating whether to defer or not as well. He's very philosophical about the whole thing and commented that kids his age from earlier generations would have been drafted so compared to that he's good.

[Tickdoc]

Senior girl Dad here. Sucks for no prom, sucks for a delayed graduation. Also accepted to a college and just received an email from them that they are going to hold in the flesh classes in the fall. My guess is football will be on as well. It's just too much money for them to ignore. Fortunately she is not going thru summer rush. She is actually handling it quite well but my son is suffering. He is a sophomore in college and missing his end of school life, fraternity brothers, and an internship he just landed. Postponed until further notice.

[kevinvc]

What a coincidence: my nephew (who lives in New Hampshire) was also accepted to Oregon and it's his first choice by a longshot. He's debating whether to defer or not as well. He's very philosophical about the whole thing and commented that kids his age from earlier generations would have been drafted so compared to that he's good.

I don't know if he's seen, but UofO has not changed their decision day. Students are supposed to let them know by May 1 if they are going to start in the fall. However, they said people can email the admissions office and ask for more time if necessary.

Eugene, Oregon is a really cool town that is within easy reach of the beach or mountains. I hope it works out for them. The traditional college experience is not something that can be replicated on-line.

[Mike V]

My son also was having the time of his life until everything hit. He is kind of bummed he is going to miss things he can never get back.

For the most part he was already thinking of next year. All dates set but everything for next fall being pushed back has him wondering if will even happen.

His employer has told him that he will have a position with them when things come back. They have even checked in with him a few times.

[b33]

I work in Higher Education and if anyone wants to discuss sending their children off to school for the fall season please feel free to DM and I'm happy to talk. for sure there are some items you should know that aren't being told to you.

[AngryScientist]

kevin, does your son have a feeling of what he wants to study?

in general, i dont think it's a bad idea to take a year off between HS and college, maybe find an intern level job in the field he wants to pursue and see if he really likes what he sees.

depending on what that field is, the problem obviously, is we may not be back to what can be considered "normal" for quite some time.

[pdmtong]

Thanks to some careful planning and the availability of classes my daughter will fulfill her major and general credit requirements at the end of the current term and essentially graduate a year early. Essentially because she still needs to complete a ten week internship (not study) abroad and that of course is on hold due to international travel restrictions and the obvious. Below is the message we got today.

Dear UO parents and family members,

Today President Schill sent a message to the university community regarding our plans for fall term. President Schill indicated that we fully intend and are currently planning to be open for in-person, on-campus instruction this fall. Due to the realities of the COVID-19 crisis and the numerous variables outside of our control, it is likely modifications will need to be made. He is, however, committed to doing everything in his power to “enable us to return to the type of residential university that is so special for all of us”. He also noted that our fall plans will comply with Governor Kate Brown’s developing strategy to reopen Oregon and will be informed by guidance from the Oregon Health Authority and Lane County Public Health.

Below you will find President Schill’s message in full. We will continue to update you, along with the university community, as we have more information.

Sincerely,
Parent and Family Programs Staff
Dear University of Oregon community,

The COVID-19 crisis strikes at the heart of the University of Oregon’s mission. As a great residential university, we are grounded in the foundational notion that, by bringing people together in this amazing and special campus setting, we provide a world-class, transformative educational experience. That education takes place in our classrooms, labs, libraries, and studios. But it also takes place in serendipitous encounters in dining facilities, on our beautiful lawns, in our residence halls, and at our sporting events. In these various, unique settings our students learn what it means to be human in a society full of diverse people and perspectives. As we turn our attention to the fall and our long-term future we must always keep this mission in mind.

Let me begin by observing that our community’s immediate response to the COVID-19 crisis was inspiring. We placed community health and safety and student success at the forefront. We mobilized remote education and physical distancing strategies quickly and efficiently. I want to sincerely thank all of you—faculty, staff, administrators, GEs, and students—who are working tirelessly to keep our community strong and deliver on our mission of teaching, discovery, and service during this extraordinarily difficult time. It has truly been awe-inspiring and humbling.

Now we must turn our attention to the future, to think about the next school year and beyond. I want to let you all know that we fully intend and are currently planning to be open for in-person, on-campus instruction this fall. Given the realities of the COVID-19 crisis and the fact that there are numerous variables outside of our control, it is unlikely that our fall quarter will look just like last fall. But I am committed to doing everything in my power to enable us to return to the type of residential university that is so special for all of us.

Our fall plans will comply with Governor Kate Brown’s emerging strategy to reopen Oregon and will be informed by guidance from the Oregon Health Authority and Lane County Public Health. Our planning will also continue to put student, faculty, and staff health and safety at the forefront. I have asked André Le Duc, AVP and chief resilience officer, to engage our Incident Management Team—more than 150 staff, faculty, and administrators working across disciplines—to help plan and facilitate the actions that must happen across campus to prepare for fall operations. André and his team will continue to coordinate with local, state, and national leaders as well as his counterparts at other West Coast public universities. We will explore a variety of methods to safeguard our community, including reducing density in offices, residence halls, and dining facilities; intensive cleaning of all facilities; and testing and contact tracing for students and employees.

Provost Patrick Phillips has already begun actively working to plan how we will deliver educational programs. He will be collaborating with deans and other academic leaders to ensure the university continues to deliver the high-quality educational experience our students expect. This group may consider alterations to class schedules, reducing the size of some larger classes, changing room assignments to allow for social distancing, and an expansion of high-quality online classes, among other adaptations. As you can understand, there are a lot of factors to consider, and it will take time to iron out details. We appreciate your patience and we will provide the community with additional information as soon as we are able.

From the outset I indicated that maintaining our economic viability was going to be a strong consideration in our planning. Our university has been a leading research and teaching institution for nearly 150 years. I am committed to doing everything I can to set us up for another 150 years of even greater achievement. I also take very seriously that we are a primary source of economic sustenance for more than 5,000 employees and their families and one of the principal drivers of the Eugene-Springfield economy. We can only do this if we make sure we are on a firm economic footing.

The UO is tuition-dependent; this is no secret. For us to be successful over the next few years, we need to get as close to our admissions targets for the class of 2024 and retain as many existing students as possible. Some media reports estimate that universities nationwide will experience a 15 percent decline in enrollment as a result of the COVID-19 crisis. If that were to happen to us it would be very challenging. Prior to the spread of COVID-19, we were way ahead of last year in our enrollment projections. That advantage has diminished despite the heroic efforts of Roger Thompson and his enrollment management staff. We will not know for sure where we stand until the fall quarter begins, although we will get better information as the spring and summer progress. I am asking each of you to do what you can and rally around the objective of attracting next year’s class and retaining our current undergraduate and graduate population.

Our second biggest source of economic concern is the state budget. While I wish we received more assistance from the state during normal times, even that amount is at risk as a result of what is very likely to be a recession tied to COVID-19. As all of you know, Oregon’s revenue system is tremendously volatile, and the unprecedented economic shutdown from COVID-19 will have a negative impact on the state budget. During the last recession, we received cuts that amounted to 45 percent of our state support. This year we finally got our state allocation back to the nominal level of 2008, but it appears that will be a fleeting achievement. The question is not whether we will be cut, it is when and by how much. Indeed, we have just been instructed by the HECC to start planning for the possibility of an initial 17 percent cut to our state appropriation next year. While we will not know with certainty the exact size of next year’s cut until the legislature meets, this direction gives us some sense of the likely magnitude.

As we look at the potential challenges posed by enrollment and state funding, the UO is starting from a position where, certainly compared to our peer public universities, the levers we can pull to manage hits to our budget are limited. For a variety of reasons (low state support, high-cost mandatory benefits programs, and a recent drop in international enrollment) our reserves are lower than other peer institutions across the country. We also do not think we can look to tuition increases to address major shortfalls the way we did following the last recession. Our nonresident students already pay market tuition, and the incomes of Oregon residents make paying more in tuition very difficult, particularly in a period of mass unemployment. A third revenue source would be our endowment, but those accounts are almost all restricted and their value has fallen as a result of the stock market decline. A fourth option would be to cut personnel costs, since almost 80 percent of our Education and General (E&G) budget is composed of salaries and benefits. This would be quite difficult since we operate at staffing ratios that are much lower than our peer schools and most salaries are set by collective bargaining agreements. There are no easy solutions.

All of this points to the fact that we need to develop more operational and financial flexibility to deal with shocks to our budget. Last week Provost Phillips and Vice President Jamie Moffitt circulated a proposal for a progressive pay reduction (PPR) program that I realize may have surprised some of you. For that, I apologize. The proposed pay reductions would be temporary and only triggered by a financial crisis tied to enrollment drops and/or state budget cuts, and only made after appropriate consultation and negotiations with our employee groups. I want to emphasize that the PPR is intended to begin a conversation with our employees and representative employees groups—and we made it very clear to our unions and the OA Council that we are open to suggestions, modifications, and alternatives that would achieve the same goal of providing time for the campus to develop a long-term strategy in response to significant revenue losses. The reality is that we will need to do something to adjust expenses if enrollment declines significantly and/or we receive state budget cuts. Again, we are open to suggestions and collaborative approaches designed to solve the problem.

Finally, we are beginning discussions about how this crisis will reshape the university in the coming years. One possibility, shared by other universities throughout the nation, is that we may have to operate on a permanently reduced budget. Another is that the era of pandemics will continue to threaten the way in which we operate. We are now gathering data and ideas to help us think about these and other “what ifs.” Everything will be on the table.

I wrote this to convey the seriousness of our challenge, not to scare anyone. We are in an unprecedented period—both at the UO and at all universities—where we cannot adhere to an attitude of business as usual. People are dying, businesses are going bankrupt, and workers have lost their jobs. The UO is not immune from the challenges that are coming, and to bury our heads in the sand is irresponsible. We must come together to solve near-term problems associated with delivering an on-campus experience this fall and to think innovatively and creatively about ways to ensure the university’s continued success now and in the future.

I believe with all of my heart that we have the capacity to make the changes necessary for the University of Oregon to flourish. The vast majority of our community—faculty, staff, students, administrators, alumni, and trustees—love our institution and recognize what a special place it is. Provost Phillips and I appreciate your patience, understanding, hard work, and wisdom. Together, we will get through this and come out the other side stronger and more resilient.

Sincerely,

Michael H. Schill
President and Professor of Law

[kevinvc]

pdmtong - Thanks for posting that chilling letter. Nothing is shocking, but it's hard to see it laid out so starkly.

Oregon is going to really be suffering economically as a state. We don't have a sales tax and increases to property taxes are tightly restricted. That leaves us heavily dependent on income tax, which isn't a great situation when we have unemployment levels that are skyrocketing. It's going to be a long tough recovery. Private colleges and universities have had declining enrollment and several have closed over the last couple of years. It's scary to think public institutions may find themselves in similar death-spirals where budget cuts result in lower perceived value and decreased enrollment, which leads to more budget cuts... wash, rinse and repeat.

[jm714]

My son is a senior and it's apparent that he is not enjoying this last quarter of school. He is pretty stressed out about AP exams because the distance learning isn't as detailed as in the class the learning is. He is also a kid that will seek out that extra knowledge from his teachers during lunch etc, but he isn't getting that right now. He was also supposed to enroll in summer school at his univ to start getting ready for his fall sport, but that is up in the air. I just had a zoom meeting with a university president for the school in my town and she said they will be doing online classes in the fall.

[ultraman6970]

" because the distance learning isn't as detailed as in the class the learning is"

Easy fix, tell him ....higher education is like that, you are doing the internship. Better flunk now because you dont have studies habits than doing it were it really counts"...

He will change his mind really quick.

[pdmtong]

pdmtong - Thanks for posting that chilling letter. Nothing is shocking, but it's hard to see it laid out so starkly.

Oregon is going to really be suffering economically as a state. We don't have a sales tax and increases to property taxes are tightly restricted. That leaves us heavily dependent on income tax, which isn't a great situation when we have unemployment levels that are skyrocketing. It's going to be a long tough recovery. Private colleges and universities have had declining enrollment and several have closed over the last couple of years. It's scary to think public institutions may find themselves in similar death-spirals where budget cuts result in lower perceived value and decreased enrollment, which leads to more budget cuts... wash, rinse and repeat.

UO was not an obvious choice for us since everyone in my family went to Cal...including my dad and his four siblings first gen off the boat. But those days are gone and daughter did not have 4.2+/almost perfect SATs/athletic skill. UC favors the top of the top and out of state/international.

That said, despite paying out of state tuition and the multiple ten hour drives, I could not have been happier with the academic and social and life experiences my daughter had at UO. She grew in all the ways I hoped for.

These are tough times for sure - and it will be awhile before even the new normal becomes normal. IMHO a gap year after HS, unless specifically purposeful, only delays the inevitable leaving the student that much further behind.

[rwsaunders]

Our youngest is finishing his sophomore year at Ohio State this week and he’s been home since Spring Break started on 06 March. Virtual learning has been “boring” according to him and he’s got to beef up on an extra course (Machine shop) when they start in the Fall, as he’s a mechanical engineer...tough to run a CNC machine virtually. He said a lot of the juniors and seniors were screwed on lab and capstone projects and virtual graduation takes place this weekend.

Here’s an interesting read for you about the (15!) options that schools are considering...some options aren’t real appealing and schools are very worried about the upcoming commitment day, when typically 2/3 of the accepted students go elsewhere anyway...the pandemic will definitely have an impact on some decisions.

https://www.insidehighered.com/digital-learning/blogs/learning-innovation/15-fall-scenarios

PS That school up North plays at the Shoe on 28 November and it’s hard to believe that they’ll allow 108,000+ fans, elbow to elbow in the stadium.

[zmalwo]

If your son has to do the first year online then there is absolutely no point in going to the University of Oregon. Unless your son is so advanced in math beyond differential equations and linear algebra, which are typically the highest level math classes any community college offers, then he needs to go to a 4-year university to take higher-level math classes. going to a instate community college will not only save a ton of money, but also opens up the possibility for your son to transfer to a better institute later on, something better than the University of Oregon.

[pdmtong]

If your son has to do the first year online then there is absolutely no point in going to the University of Oregon. Unless your son is so advanced in math beyond differential equations and linear algebra, which are typically the highest level math classes any community college offers, then he needs to go to a 4-year university to take higher-level math classes. going to a instate community college will not only save a ton of money, but also opens up the possibility for your son to transfer to a better institute later on, something better than the University of Oregon.


This is an interesting point although if you live in Oregon and want public tuition you really only have two choices.

If you don’t go public in state (oregon) now you are looking at private / out of state easily 2.5-3.0x increase. Big difference $80k four years versus $200k+ four years

Yes Oregon isn’t Princeton etc but once you get past the top 20 imho they are all the same and what matters most is what you do there (wherever you are) and how you springboard that into life or grad school.

As we know Tim Cook went to Auburn and he did ok

[Matthew]

Really don't have any advice since I never had kids. Just wanted to express my thoughts are with all of the seniors out there. I can't imagine having had to miss all that the end of your high school career offers. I feel bummed out, can't imagine what your kids are dealing with. Hopefully we can beat this damn virus and we can get back to life as we knew it. Best wishes to all of them as they face some tough choices.

[jm714]

" because the distance learning isn't as detailed as in the class the learning is"

Easy fix, tell him ....higher education is like that, you are doing the internship. Better flunk now because you dont have studies habits than doing it were it really counts"...

He will change his mind really quick.

Who said he doesn’t have the study habits to pass? Thanks for the flippant response.

[Hellgate]

My son is a freshman at Texas A&M. He's extremely disappointed to be right back were he was a year ago, home, studying for his room. To have tasted freedom, then have it ripped away. Hopefully he's able to return to campus this fall, otherwise a year off is a good idea, assuming he can find a worthwhile job.

[mhespenheide]

He has other friends that are in the same situation and considering similar plans, although a few of them have been awarded really good scholarships that will not carry over if they don't start this fall.


I'm a high school teacher, not father of a senior, but I can sympathize. It's a challenging and stressful time of life and the social outlets at the end of senior year are one of the few redeeming aspects.

That said, if you know anyone who has been awarded a scholarship that might be predicated on starting next fall, I would highly recommend you reach out and ask politely if that's still the case. While some might be fixed, others will understand just how unusual the current situation is.

[daker13]

My daughter is a senior and while I think she's missing hanging out with her friends she doesn't seem bothered by missing some of the more formal social events/benchmarks since she never was much interested in that stuff in the first place. She's really focused on college in the fall, and she will be bummed if it doesn't happen. We put down a deposit, but if there's a chance of Zoom classes in the fall I have a really, really hard time imagining making that first tuition payment. That is just ridiculous. Unfortunately, she might lose some scholarship money but I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

[daker13]

My son is a senior and it's apparent that he is not enjoying this last quarter of school. He is pretty stressed out about AP exams because the distance learning isn't as detailed as in the class the learning is.(snip)

My daughter's in a number of AP classes, and from what I understand the AP exams this year are all online, much shorter, and 'open note' (meaning students are allowed to use their notes, but of course they could all just Google the answers outright). She's mad that a) the exams didn't cost any less than they usually do, and b) for her and her friends, they feel that all of the studying they've done during the year is 'wasted' because everyone will be getting perfect scores.

[kevinvc]

Frankly, my son does not have a solid academic background. He went to a mediocre public school where if you weren't causing problems you didn't get much attention. He glided along with a 3.3 GPA but never developed the self discipline or writing skills he'll need to thrive in college. So, I was already floating the idea of a gap year working to save money and taking a couple of community college classes even before the COVID19 thing hit.

But, he wants the whole social experience, already has friends going to UofO, and doesn't want to fall behind his other graduating friends. He's a great kid and will figure it out. I was just hoping to cushion the shot of reality he's going to face.

He's not sure what he wants to major in. His life is completely centered on soccer so he's considering getting a teaching degree and being a high school coach. He's also considering a general business degree and looking at trying to find something with the local team or something along those lines. I think he would do great at marketing and is a natural leader, but I'm obviously pretty biased. All that said, he'll get a similar education at pretty much any institution that he'd get into.

[djg]

I have two high school seniors here -- they're maintaining perspective, mostly, but still are sorely disappointed by what's become of their senior year. They attend a small public high school -- a sort of magnet program -- and both miss the social aspects of their normally close-knit community. And my son also pines for his crew team -- some of them have been rowing together throughout high school (and club seasons), they'd all been training hard for the spring season, and they had a good shot at the state title (many returns from last year's bronze medal boat, plus a monster of a younger kid).

But . . . they are alive and well and have many opportunities going forward.

They've both picked their colleges for the fall, or perhaps I should say for a fall. We're still talking about the possibility of gap years.

[Ralph]

WOW....Some great stories of exceptional focused kids. Some good parenting also.

[rwsaunders]

Posted today in the New Yorker...titled "How the Coronavirus Pandemic Has Shattered the Myth of College in America"

https://www.newyorker.com/news/us-journal/how-the-coronavirus-pandemic-has-shattered-the-myth-of-college-in-america?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_042820&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&bxid=5d94c4951708b16dae208c7e&cndid=57872551&hasha=f12bd7cb930b810b8d02057533fd3d37&hashb=8ee9d26bdc4b8106a36f56eda6c173781435be59&hashc=9234faea67c940544fde56d0b385d1e4cdf78aa19ff4 403634a11d6e11e61cd5&esrc=Auto_Subs&utm_term=TNY_Daily

[RWL2222]

My 18 year old is headed to Va Tech in the Fall. He and my 16 year old are just hanging out all day. It is hard on my 18 y/o bc he had been working for the past year, playing sports and music, doing well in school and going out. Now, nothing.

The schools here have totally punted on giving students an education. The primary concern is the risk of escalating the sense of inequity because some students do not have good internet, computers at home, etc.

My oldest it doing OK: he picked up playing guitar, socially proximates with his gf, and decided the replace the brakes and muffler himself (never having picked up a wrench before) when his car go rejected for inspection.

This uncertainty sucks for our kids.

[happycampyer]

Posted today in the New Yorker...titled "How the Coronavirus Pandemic Has Shattered the Myth of College in America"

https://www.newyorker.com/news/us-journal/how-the-coronavirus-pandemic-has-shattered-the-myth-of-college-in-america?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_042820&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&bxid=5d94c4951708b16dae208c7e&cndid=57872551&hasha=f12bd7cb930b810b8d02057533fd3d37&hashb=8ee9d26bdc4b8106a36f56eda6c173781435be59&hashc=9234faea67c940544fde56d0b385d1e4cdf78aa19ff4 403634a11d6e11e61cd5&esrc=Auto_Subs&utm_term=TNY_Daily

The best quote in that article:

“It’s unclear what Shannon, other students, and their parents are actually paying for. Put another way, what exactly is a four-year college? ‘It’s a hedge fund that teaches classes as a tax dodge,’ one Twitter user posted, after Harvard announced, in mid-April, that it was cutting salaries and other expenses, despite its endowment, which reached more than forty billion dollars in 2019. ‘And they’re barely even doing the ‘teaches classes’ part anymore now.’”