A few questions about Campagnolo 12 speed groupsets

[Herder]

Hi, first time using campy groupset, would like a little help please with any differences between chorus vs record.

What is the difference between the rear derailleurs? Worth $100? I also noticed people recommend super record FD for 11 speed. Does this still apply for the 12 speed?

Lastly the brakes. What brakes should I get? Any of them have better clearance then the other? Are the older ones compatible with the new ones?

I will be using Record shifters and Crankset as I was able to get a deal on them. With super record chain

Thanks

[oldpotatoe]

Hi, first time using campy groupset, would like a little help please with any differences between chorus vs record.

What is the difference between the rear derailleurs? Worth $100? I also noticed people recommend super record FD for 11 speed. Does this still apply for the 12 speed?

Lastly the brakes. What brakes should I get? Any of them have better clearance then the other? Are the older ones compatible with the new ones?

I will be using Record shifters and Crankset as I was able to get a deal on them. With super record chain

Thanks

Number 1, ‘worth it’? Worth a really big word. SR lighter but Chorus functionality exactly the same as those above it.
Fder, I’ll recommend a metal cage one everytime...
Number 2(or 3?). Chorus brakes have more clearance than SR/Record. All are cross compatible.
Chain..’least expensive compatible cogset and chain’, consumables after all.

[Velocipede]

The Chorus 12 kit is perfect the way it is. Upgrading the rear, front derailleur and brakes, not necessary. Personally, if I were doing anything, I would switch the lever blades to carbon ones. That's it. Everything else is fine cause the rear derailleur will get beat up more especially in an accident than the lever blades. Which is why the rear is alloy now.

The front der cage, metal. Last longer and the weight is negligible.
Calipers, the Chorus are fine. I actually don't think the new Record/SR12 calipers aide much in tire clearance. I put a set of SR12 calipers on a bike with 28s and they're rubbed. I did the same with a set of Chorus 12s, didn't have the problem. I would just stick with the stock Chorus 12 ones. Put the money into wheels.

[FlashUNC]

Go Record. Life's short.

[Herder]

Thanks I did want to put 28s if possible. Any difference in clearance between the chorus 11 speed and 12 speed brakes? I see a small weight difference but the price is the same.

Thanks again

[vincenz]

Go Record. Life's short.


Hear hear. Campy is Italy and if buying campy for the pedigree and history, should get a Made In Italy group.

[Herder]

Hear hear. Campy is Italy and if buying campy for the pedigree and history, should get a Made In Italy group.

What groups are made in Italy vs China?

[Velocipede]

Hear hear. Campy is Italy and if buying campy for the pedigree and history, should get a Made In Italy group.

Chorus 12 is made in Italy. At least every kit I've come in has listed so.
Potenza is difference. Italy, Romania and Taiwan.

[Velocipede]

Thanks I did want to put 28s if possible. Any difference in clearance between the chorus 11 speed and 12 speed brakes? I see a small weight difference but the price is the same.

Thanks again

They redesigned the Record 12 and SR12 calipers to give them more tire clearance. They are supposed to be more adjustable. I couldn't get them to clear the tires I had on a show bike. But since it was a show bike, I didn't care much. The Chorus 11 and 12 calipers are the same.

[AngryScientist]

from what i understand, with 12-sp, only record and SR brakes are actually made by campy, chorus and below are outsourced.

If it were my bike, and i were in your situation, i would go with the record shifters, crank and brakes. chorus FD, RD, chain.

what wheels are you using?

[Herder]

from what i understand, with 12-sp, only record and SR brakes are actually made by campy, chorus and below are outsourced.

If it were my bike, and i were in your situation, i would go with the record shifters, crank and brakes. chorus FD, RD, chain.

what wheels are you using?

Still looking for new wheels. Ordered some st swiss 1400 from Germany. Ordered was cancelled, can't ship to Canada right now. Probably going to wait it out and order again. I am up for suggestions on an aluminium wheelset around 1500g.

[clarendon]

They redesigned the Record 12 and SR12 calipers to give them more tire clearance. They are supposed to be more adjustable. I couldn't get them to clear the tires I had on a show bike. But since it was a show bike, I didn't care much. The Chorus 11 and 12 calipers are the same.

Interesting. Has anyone tried Corsa/Control G2 28s with the SR 12 calipers? Corsa 25s and SR 12 doesn't leave a lot of clearance so would be good to know if they can work.

[AngryScientist]

Interesting. Has anyone tried Corsa/Control G2 28s with the SR 12 calipers? Corsa 25s and SR 12 doesn't leave a lot of clearance so would be good to know if they can work.

the new calipers depend a LOT on frame design.

They have gobs of clearance if the brake bridges are put in the right place, but if the frame bridge location is not optimized for max clearance, it may be tight.

i have a thread i started on this. i can definitely see record calipers clearing 28's with the right adjustment and effective bridge location.

[Velocipede]

Interesting. Has anyone tried Corsa/Control G2 28s with the SR 12 calipers? Corsa 25s and SR 12 doesn't leave a lot of clearance so would be good to know if they can work.

The tires I had on the show bike were Vittoria Corsa G+ tires in a 700x28. But when you fill them up they are bigger than 28s. Which is the real issue. 25's are closer to 28s. 28s are closer to 30/31s.

[Dave]

Chorus 12 brakes are made in Taiwan and have shimano style pads. I have one bike with 2018 chorus and one with the new chorus 12. I don't notice any difference.

There are also some parts made in Romania. You have to read the boxes the parts come in.

[Mikej]

Carpet and drapes need to match. Record all the way.

[cgolvin]

If it were my bike, and i were in your situation, i would go with the record shifters, crank and brakes. chorus FD, RD, chain.

I see the logic of this recommendation. I, however, went with a full Chorus group because I wanted the subcompact (48/32) rings and am very happy with it. For my bike, the Chorus calipers have tons of clearance (I think I posted a photo in Angry’s thread on the subject). Running Corsa 25s on Shamal Ultra (not C17) and pretty sure that 28s would fit no problem

[zmalwo]

Chorus is heavier than record but performance wise no difference. I've seen Campy 11s carbon record and SR RD explode but alloy chorus seems to be more durable than the other two. If you don't care about a few hundred grams of weight I would go chorus any day. Now the real question is, are you going to be looking at your bike and wonder "hmmm, I should have got Record" Everytime?

[Clean39T]

R12/SR12 both go to 34T now (on an SR cassette) - that opens the door to a 39/53 by 11/34 combo - very sweet range, atmo.


But I still can't decide on SR12 EPS vs. DA9150 for my Dogma : help:

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[AngryScientist]

I see the logic of this recommendation. I, however, went with a full Chorus group because I wanted the subcompact (48/32) rings and am very happy with it. For my bike, the Chorus calipers have tons of clearance (I think I posted a photo in Angry’s thread on the subject). Running Corsa 25s on Shamal Ultra (not C17) and pretty sure that 28s would fit no problem

agree 100% on the 48/32 - awesome crank range for me. i now use the whole cassette. it's perfect for road riding. for me anyway.

[Hellgate]

"Panache," says the guy who has bikes with Chorus, Record, and Super Record.

[thirdgenbird]

They look of the new record brakes had really grown on me. I would at least go with those. Nothing wrong with using chorus elsewhere, but at that point, I would be tempted to go matching.

[Herder]

I just placed the order, decided on the full record with chorus brakes. I like the idea of keeping things the same. A few people have mentioned they believe the chorus brakes might have a bit better clearance so that's why I went with them.

Thanks for everyone's help

[Clean39T]

I just placed the order, decided on the full record with chorus brakes. I like the idea of keeping things the same. A few people have mentioned they believe the chorus brakes might have a bit better clearance so that's why I went with them.



Thanks for everyone's helpI'm afraid the clearance comments are fake news.... Send KarlC a note. He's played w both on his F8.

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[Herder]

Chorus 12 brakes are made in Taiwan and have shimano style pads. I have one bike with 2018 chorus and one with the new chorus 12. I don't notice any difference.

There are also some parts made in Romania. You have to read the boxes the parts come in.

Do we know where the 11 speed chorus brakes are made? Doesn't really matter now but would like it to be Italy

[Herder]

I'm afraid the clearance comments are fake news.... Send KarlC a note. He's played w both on his F8.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I don't think it matters much. To be safe I got the 11 speed chorus brakes. They were on sale and lighter (not by much) then the newer ones. Doesn't seem to be any difference between the 11 and 12 speed?

[thirdgenbird]

I thought both 11 and 12 speed chorus brakes were outsourced to tektro but the 12 switched to shimano style pads. Probably to simplify the value stream.

[cgolvin]

the 12 switched to shimano style pads

Confirmed

[thirdgenbird]

I am really close to selling two record 10 groups and ordering a chorus 12 group. Well, a group minus brakes. I’ve got Campagnolo canti brakes for this build. Also made by tektro with Shimano style pads. Good bit of kit.

[oldpotatoe]

Still looking for new wheels. Ordered some st swiss 1400 from Germany. Ordered was cancelled, can't ship to Canada right now. Probably going to wait it out and order again. I am up for suggestions on an aluminium wheelset around 1500g.

Email me, I can design and build a set specifically for you and your needs.
DT, Campag, Bitex hubs or AIVEE hubs, laced to DT411 rims with appropriate to you spoke type and count.

https://www.aivee.fr/en/12-hubs

cp51errc@gmail.com

Chorus brakes made by TRP/Tektro. Campag has had a LONG relationship with Tektro..going back to early canti brakes for cross groups.

I keep expecting that a 'Fulcrum' group', aimed at OE, made where the frames are made(Asia), would happen..not yet.

[Velocipede]

So I pestered the guys at Campy a bit.
Here's a small breakdown of what's Italy and not Italy for Chorus, Record and SR 12 groups

Cranks
Italy

BB cups
Italy

Front derailleurs
A mix of Romania and Italy but they will all be labeled Italy.

Rear derailleurs
Italy

Calipers
Chorus- Taiwan
Record and SR- Italy

Rotors
Taiwan

Disc shifters and calipers
Germany
this makes sense since the calipers are made by Magura.

Mechanical shifters
A mix of Romania and Italy but all will be labeled Italy

Cassettes
Italy

Chains
Italy

ALL EPS components
Italy.
Campy has a specific section of the Vicenza factory that just handles EPS. Media aren't even allowed in and no photos allowed.


Campy owns 2 factories in Romania. One of which makes a bunch of motorcycle components. The Romania thing isn't uncommon. Sidi, Fizik and a bunch of others list Italy but their products are actually made in Romania.

[lavi]

But I still can't decide on SR12 EPS vs. DA9150 for my Dogma : help:

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Dats easy bub. Campy!

However, I know you really like DA (it's on your Kirk)...so then go with DA to keep the grouppos matching?

Sorry. I'm no help. :beer:

[Clean39T]

Dats easy bub. Campy!

However, I know you really like DA (it's on your Kirk)...so then go with DA to keep the grouppos matching?

Sorry. I'm no help. :beer:

Decision has been made, sticking with etap, eebrakes, and the ENVEs for a bit - after we get settled into a new place to live, will see how the funds look and decide about doing SR12 EPS, or slumming it with some DA mechanical :p

[lavi]

Decision has been made

Boom! I'll still ride with you...even with those garbage parts. :hello:

[thirdgenbird]

Decision has been made

Me too. Bring on Campagnolo 12.


If anyone needs a nice record 10 group or spares, hit me up. Classified postings to follow.

[gfk_velo]

So I pestered the guys at Campy a bit.
Here's a small breakdown of what's Italy and not Italy for Chorus, Record and SR 12 groups

Cranks
Italy

BB cups
Italy

Front derailleurs
A mix of Romania and Italy but they will all be labeled Italy.

Rear derailleurs
Italy

Calipers
Chorus- Taiwan
Record and SR- Italy

Rotors
Taiwan

Disc shifters and calipers
Germany
this makes sense since the calipers are made by Magura.

Mechanical shifters
A mix of Romania and Italy but all will be labeled Italy

Cassettes
Italy

Chains
Italy

ALL EPS components
Italy.
Campy has a specific section of the Vicenza factory that just handles EPS. Media aren't even allowed in and no photos allowed.


Campy owns 2 factories in Romania. One of which makes a bunch of motorcycle components. The Romania thing isn't uncommon. Sidi, Fizik and a bunch of others list Italy but their products are actually made in Romania.

FWIW ...

Even this isn't definitive as regardless of what part of the Campagnolo empire or other factories a part is declared as being "made in", all the parts may have subassemblies made in other places within, or outside, of Campagnolo.

The "Made In" rules only show where, either, a part essential for function is made (so one caliper arm and the brake block carriers on the CH brakes are out of Taiwan, but the rest isn't), or, where 40% or more of the value of the product is added.

Disc brake shifters may show "Made in Germany" as a reflection of where the master cylinders are made, for instance - but the shift components, brake levers and bodies are all made in variously, Mecrom 1 and 2 (Romania) and Vicenza.

Some EPS components, will show Made in Switzerland as well, BTW.

In theory, no photos are allowed anywhere inside Campagnolo (there are clear "No Photography" notices throughout the factory) but pictures can be taken by arrangement (hence the odd media images one sees from time to time) in all locations except Testing, R and D / TechShop (although Campag have published some media of their own), Carbon fabrication (again Campagnolo have published some images of their own) and EPS.

[Velocipede]

FWIW ...

Even this isn't definitive as regardless of what part of the Campagnolo empire or other factories a part is declared as being "made in", all the parts may have subassemblies made in other places within, or outside, of Campagnolo.

The "Made In" rules only show where, either, a part essential for function is made (so one caliper arm and the brake block carriers on the CH brakes are out of Taiwan, but the rest isn't), or, where 40% or more of the value of the product is added.

Disc brake shifters may show "Made in Germany" as a reflection of where the master cylinders are made, for instance - but the shift components, brake levers and bodies are all made in variously, Mecrom 1 and 2 (Romania) and Vicenza.

Some EPS components, will show Made in Switzerland as well, BTW.

In theory, no photos are allowed anywhere inside Campagnolo (there are clear "No Photography" notices throughout the factory) but pictures can be taken by arrangement (hence the odd media images one sees from time to time) in all locations except Testing, R and D / TechShop (although Campag have published some media of their own), Carbon fabrication (again Campagnolo have published some images of their own) and EPS.

I understand. I was just posting the basics since some where asking which parts were made where is all.

[merckx]

Has there been any insight regarding how C-19 has affected R&D, production and distribution of Campagnolo products?

[Velocipede]

Has there been any insight regarding how C-19 has affected R&D, production and distribution of Campagnolo products?

The US has decent stock of certain product. But as of right now, Italy is closed. As of last week, they weren't working in Vicenza. But that could be changing. I know Italy and Spain have opened up riding outside as of today. So that's a plus. And some companies that are smaller like Bixxis, they are working. But big companies like Campagnolo, too many people.

[Waldo62]

I am perfectly happy with both versions of Campagnolo 12-speed.

[AngryScientist]

Boom! I'll still ride with you...even with those garbage parts. :hello:

whaaa haha haaa

funniest thing i have read today :)

[Clean39T]

Boom! I'll still ride with you...even with those garbage parts. :hello:

whaaa haha haaa



funniest thing i have read today :)

F8 riders always bringing the sass...

[Clean39T]

I am perfectly happy with both versions of Campagnolo 12-speed.

Still kicking myself for not getting in TK's queue before it closed. What a beautiful classic and classy ride... :beer:

[lavi]

F8 riders always bringing the sass...

Gotta have something to account for my gross lack of wattage!

[4151zero]

deleted

[Waldo62]

Still kicking myself for not getting in TK's queue before it closed. What a beautiful classic and classy ride... :beer:

Thank you. It's a great riding bike.

[oldpotatoe]

The US has decent stock of certain product. But as of right now, Italy is closed. As of last week, they weren't working in Vicenza. But that could be changing. I know Italy and Spain have opened up riding outside as of today. So that's a plus. And some companies that are smaller like Bixxis, they are working. But big companies like Campagnolo, too many people.

Wish Campagnolo NA would re-open. I get all my ERGO shifter/hub/etc small bits from them..I'm runnin low.

[Velocipede]

Wish Campagnolo NA would re-open. I get all my ERGO shifter/hub/etc small bits from them..I'm runnin low.

Jerry is going in and shipping stuff. Just not every day. Marty is doing orders. Just spoke to him the other day. Email him.

[acorn_user]

Interesting. Has anyone tried Corsa/Control G2 28s with the SR 12 calipers? Corsa 25s and SR 12 doesn't leave a lot of clearance so would be good to know if they can work.

I have Corsa Control 28s on my Chorus 12 calipers and there is quite a bit of clearance.

[thirdgenbird]

Jerry is going in and shipping stuff. Just not every day. Marty is doing orders. Just spoke to him the other day. Email him.

Let’s hope :)

[Velocipede]

Let’s hope :)

They are. I've spoken to them both.

[lavi]

Seems like CampyNA is getting some orders out. I was back-ordered on some wheels...the vendor was waiting on getting their order from Campy (or QBP. Don't know). My wheels showed up last week.

[bfd]

Campy currently offers a Chorus 12-29 and Centaur 12-32 cassettes for 11 speed. Since I don’t need an 11t cog, is Campy planning on offering a 12-32 or even 12-34 cassettes for 12 speed?! Thanks!

[oldpotatoe]

Jerry is going in and shipping stuff. Just not every day. Marty is doing orders. Just spoke to him the other day. Email him.

I will..I talked to Jerry about 3 weeks ago..I'll reach out..thanks.

[Dave]

With regard to cassettes starting with a 12, Campy's answer has been to offer the new 48/32 crank. I switched from a 50/34 with a 12-32 11 speed to the new 11-34 and 48/32. I got a little more top gear and more low gearing. Works great for me.

If you're hoping for an 18T, that's unlikely.

[bfd]

With regard to cassettes starting with a 12, Campy's answer has been to offer the new 48/32 crank. I switched from a 50/34 with a 12-32 11 speed to the new 11-34 and 48/32. I got a little more top gear and more low gearing. Works great for me.

If you're hoping for an 18T, that's unlikely.

Thanks! The major difference between 11-32 and 12-32 in the 11 speed cassette is you get a 16t instead of the 11t. Since I’m an old fat guy, the 16t is much more useful for me. For 12 speed, I would prefer an 18t over the 11t as i just can’t push that big a gear. But if cassettes starting with 11t is all Campy offers for 12 speed, then I’ll stick with 11 speed. Of course, YMMV!

Good Luck!

[ThasFACE]

Still kicking myself for not getting in TK's queue before it closed. What a beautiful classic and classy ride... :beer:

Same. Got two already and love them, but want another. Oh well.

[clarendon]

Has anyone managed to use a Campagnolo 12 speed chain with a quick link? And if not, what is your workaround for taking the chain off for proper cleaning?

From what I have been to glean from discussions on various sites (this may not all be correct):
- There doesn't seem to be a quick link that works for 12 speed - people report KMC, Wipperman, etc all catching on the sprockets in various ways
- Instead, you need to use Campy chain and split/rejoin this with joining pins every time if you want to take the chain off
- Campagnolo recommend splitting a 12 sp chain a maximum of 3 times before replacing

In other words, are we stuck with cleaning the chain on the bike? What about people who use wax?

Cheers

[lavi]

Has anyone managed to use a Campagnolo 12 speed chain with a quick link? And if not, what is your workaround for taking the chain off for proper cleaning?

From what I have been to glean from discussions on various sites (this may not all be correct):
- There doesn't seem to be a quick link that works for 12 speed - people report KMC, Wipperman, etc all catching on the sprockets in various ways
- Instead, you need to use Campy chain and split/rejoin this with joining pins every time if you want to take the chain off
- Campagnolo recommend splitting a 12 sp chain a maximum of 3 times before replacing

In other words, are we stuck with cleaning the chain on the bike? What about people who use wax?

Cheers

I've met/ridden with exactly zero people that wax chains. I don't get it. Seems like a supreme time suck...for some benefit that eludes me. Some people really love to tinker though. I'm not that guy.

Anyhow, I had SR12 early after it's release. Campy's joining method is moronic. I used, with less than zero issues, SRAM's 12 speed quick link.

[clarendon]

Agreed. Not sure how best to clean it. I usually just degrease on the bike but there's quite a bit of gunk that's built up over the last 18 mths that doesn't seem to be coming out. Given the cost of a SR cassette keen to extend the life of that.

When you say less than zero, do you mean you had no problems?

I don't use wax but know that people do so wondering what how they get the chain clean enough for this... splitting and using new pins every time presumably

[lavi]

When you say less than zero, do you mean you had no problems?


Yes, no issues with the SRAM Eagle 12s quick link. No shifting issues. No extra sound.

[Dave]

Those who wax nearly always use a quick link. I don't dip my chains in hot wax. I use my own homemade wax lube. I still take my chain off about every 500 miles for and change to a different chain in my rotation. Every chain gets a thorough cleaning and new lube, before being stored, awaiting its next use.

I relube about every 125 miles. I use the SRAM eagle 12 link.

[parallelfish]

In other words, are we stuck with cleaning the chain on the bike? What about people who use wax?

Cheers

I have been using YBN 12 speed links without issue.

[Dave]

Thanks! The major difference between 11-32 and 12-32 in the 11 speed cassette is you get a 16t instead of the 11t. Since I’m an old fat guy, the 16t is much more useful for me. For 12 speed, I would prefer an 18t over the 11t as i just can’t push that big a gear. But if cassettes starting with 11t is all Campy offers for 12 speed, then I’ll stick with 11 speed. Of course, YMMV!

Good Luck!

With 12 speed you get a straight block up to the 17. When a 48/32 is used, all gear ratios change. A 48/16 is 3/1.

Rather than wanting a 16, you need to know what gear ratio you covet so dearly.

[cgolvin]

Yes, no issues with the SRAM Eagle 12s quick link. No shifting issues. No extra sound.


Ditto, works great

[clarendon]

Ditto, works great

OK great. So what I need is this? To be clear use would be for campy SR12

https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-Eagle-PowerLock-Connector-12-speed/dp/B077CVR7CV

[cgolvin]

OK great. So what I need is this? To be clear use would be for campy SR12

https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-Eagle-PowerLock-Connector-12-speed/dp/B077CVR7CV


Yes, that is exactly what I bought so that I could have an extra to carry in my saddle bag.

Just for clarity: I have Chorus 12 but given the compatibility across groups assume it will work fine with SR12.

[thirdgenbird]

How about chain tool recommendations that are cheaper than the Campagnolo one (even though am tempted to add one next to my 10spd tool)

Edit:
Actually, is the 11spd tool backwards compatible? Is so, I may have to sell the 10spd to help fund the upgrade.

[acorn_user]

I had my LBS install the chain and they used a KMC quick link (which I could have done at home, doh!). Best thing is that they come as a 2 pack, so now I have a spare :D

[robertbb]

With 12 speed you get a straight block up to the 17. When a 48/32 is used, all gear ratios change. A 48/16 is 3/1.

Rather than wanting a 16, you need to know what gear ratio you covet so dearly.

With 11sp Campy you also get a straight block up to the 17. It's just that doing so starts at 12.

The difference between a 12-29 11sp cassette and an 11-29 cassette in 12sp is the 11t cog.

The 11t is next to useless for most people even with a subcompact. I wish one option with 12sp would be the simple addition of a 32 to the existing 11sp 12-29

[Dave]

A 48/11 is a little lower gear ratio than a 53/12.

[gfk_velo]

How about chain tool recommendations that are cheaper than the Campagnolo one (even though am tempted to add one next to my 10spd tool)

Edit:
Actually, is the 11spd tool backwards compatible? Is so, I may have to sell the 10spd to help fund the upgrade.

Yes, it is.
The 11s tool is the recommended unit for joining the 12s chain.
See the technical information at www.campagnolo.com

[gfk_velo]

I had my LBS install the chain and they used a KMC quick link (which I could have done at home, doh!). Best thing is that they come as a 2 pack, so now I have a spare :D

Did they tell you that in doing so they had just voided your warranty?

[gfk_velo]

Campy currently offers a Chorus 12-29 and Centaur 12-32 cassettes for 11 speed. Since I don’t need an 11t cog, is Campy planning on offering a 12-32 or even 12-34 cassettes for 12 speed?! Thanks!

No.
Campagnolo's stated policy so far has been to offer 11-29, 11-32 and now 11-34 only. No projected provision of a 12-up cassette or of a smaller bottom sprocket.

[oldpotatoe]

How about chain tool recommendations that are cheaper than the Campagnolo one (even though am tempted to add one next to my 10spd tool)

Edit:
Actually, is the 11spd tool backwards compatible? Is so, I may have to sell the 10spd to help fund the upgrade.

DO IT, buy one, keep the 10s one....plus Campag 10s chain tools are kinda old news since everything Campag is now 11s or 12s...

These are superior tools..last many lifetimes..

[RoosterCogset]

How about chain tool recommendations that are cheaper than the Campagnolo one (even though am tempted to add one next to my 10spd tool)

Edit:
Actually, is the 11spd tool backwards compatible? Is so, I may have to sell the 10spd to help fund the upgrade.

The Park CT 4.3 works fine for me on 11-speed chains; their site indicates also works for campy 12 speed.

[thirdgenbird]

DO IT, buy one, keep the 10s one....plus Campag 10s chain tools are kinda old news since everything Campag is now 11s or 12s...

These are superior tools..last many lifetimes..

But if the 11 is backwards compatible, why not sell. Lots of 10spd faithful out there. I may list it with my upcoming record 10 selloff.

I’ve also got the original 10spd chain “vice grip” if someone wants a collectible :)

[cgolvin]

The Park CT 4.3 works fine for me on 11-speed chains; their site indicates also works for campy 12 speed.


Mine was useless, kept breaking the pin, would not recommend it but of course could have been pilot error

[thirdgenbird]

The last park tool I held (unsure of model) felt like a toy compared to my campag tool.

[mcteague]

Mine was useless, kept breaking the pin, would not recommend it but of course could have been pilot error

Same here, sent it back for a refund. I only had the initial pin break but, after reading quite a few reports of the same thing, decided to cut my losses.

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

But if the 11 is backwards compatible, why not sell. Lots of 10spd faithful out there. I may list it with my upcoming record 10 selloff.

I’ve also got the original 10spd chain “vice grip” if someone wants a collectible :)

I don't sell any tools, that's just me...:)

Permalink, that was a 'great' idea..not..:eek:

[gfk_velo]

Mine was useless, kept breaking the pin, would not recommend it but of course could have been pilot error

You have to use the chain hold-down. Most users don't, because they don't realise how important it is that the pin is driven in a dead straight line - it's not only to preserve the pin, it's to prevent the pin hole ovalising. That's why the chain is such a tight fit to the tool and why the chain has to be pushed very hard down into it's saddles before the chain hold-down will locate properly.

We get chain tools back for warranty with this issue from time to time, usually a conversation with the user reveals the problem.

The pin can only snap if it's not running dead axially - it won't snap from compression ...

[gfk_velo]

The Park CT 4.3 works fine for me on 11-speed chains; their site indicates also works for campy 12 speed.

I'd strongly advise the Campag tool. The Park tool has a rather loose fit and doesn't hold the chain down, so the pin can be driven at an angle.

At the factory, Campagnolo micrograph links from chains that come back for warranty (chains are almost the only item a SC is compelled to return to the factory even if warranty has already been granted) and I'd say that about 9.5/10 we see chain hole ovalisation as the cause of failure.

11 and 12s have very high release pressures for the pin and need that "tightness" of fit to work reliably. If you use the right tool and follow the instructions, the join you produce will be the strongest link in the chain. If you don't, it probably won't ...

[cgolvin]

You have to use the chain hold-down. Most users don't, because they don't realise how important it is that the pin is driven in a dead straight line - it's not only to preserve the pin, it's to prevent the pin hole ovalising. That's why the chain is such a tight fit to the tool and why the chain has to be pushed very hard down into it's saddles before the chain hold-down will locate properly.

We get chain tools back for warranty with this issue from time to time, usually a conversation with the user reveals the problem.

The pin can only snap if it's not running dead axially - it won't snap from compression ...


Thanks but I think you’re alluding to the Campy tool, which I now regret not investing in. My comment was about the Park tool, which lacks a hold down

[acorn_user]

Did they tell you that in doing so they had just voided your warranty?

Errr... no, I doubt they realised that. I certainly didn't!

Hope you guys are doing well in the UK :)

[robertbb]

Thanks! The major difference between 11-32 and 12-32 in the 11 speed cassette is you get a 16t instead of the 11t. Since I’m an old fat guy, the 16t is much more useful for me. For 12 speed, I would prefer an 18t over the 11t as i just can’t push that big a gear. But if cassettes starting with 11t is all Campy offers for 12 speed, then I’ll stick with 11 speed. Of course, YMMV!

Good Luck!

I made the same decision - sticking to 11s for that 12-29 cassette with the 16t.

You may consider trying the 12s chorus sub-compact crank with your 11s setup - while listed as incompatible, reports from early adopters is it works well. Just be careful that you can lower your front derailleur enough. I think I read 8mm lower is what is required. Obviously this is not supported by Campy, will void warranties, be sub-optimal etc. and it will come down to your propensity to experiment and what your acceptable level of "sub-optimal" actually is. I believe the chainline on the 12s cranks is 44.5mm (1mm further outboard than the 43.5mm chainline in the standard 11s cranks). In private messaging with Graeme he did mention this extended chainline is still backwards compatible with 11s C/R/SR, but the front derailleur will need some extra attention and while it is/was possible to set up a front derailleur in 11s without an inline barrel adjuster, one would definitely be needed if using a 44.5mm chainline.

Good luck!

[Herder]

OK great. So what I need is this? To be clear use would be for campy SR12

https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-Eagle-PowerLock-Connector-12-speed/dp/B077CVR7CV

Is this just for emergencies or a good way to connect the chain?

Since this is my first go with campy I don't have the chain tool. Do I spend the money and get the tool? I have a topeak chain tool that says it works with campagnolo but I've read the post advising against the park tool. I think the one I have is similar. Third option would be use the power connector?


Separate note, most of my stuff came in. The chorus brakes were not labeled where they are made so I guess China. The Record shifters were Romania. Everything else was made in Italy

[tomato coupe]

The Park CT 4.3 works fine for me on 11-speed chains; their site indicates also works for campy 12 speed.

Mine was useless, kept breaking the pin, would not recommend it but of course could have been pilot error

Same here, sent it back for a refund. I only had the initial pin break but, after reading quite a few reports of the same thing, decided to cut my losses.
The Park Tool works well if you shorten the driving pin. It's a bit too floppy if used straight out of the box.

[clarendon]

Is this just for emergencies or a good way to connect the chain?

Since this is my first go with campy I don't have the chain tool. Do I spend the money and get the tool? I have a topeak chain tool that says it works with campagnolo but I've read the post advising against the park tool. I think the one I have is similar. Third option would be use the power connector?


Separate note, most of my stuff came in. The chorus brakes were not labeled where they are made so I guess China. The Record shifters were Romania. Everything else was made in Italy

I was asking about the speed link as a permanent fixture to make it easier to take the chain off. But also a good idea for emergencies. I haven’t yet put this on as I’m still unsure if the SRAM link will cause additional wear to the rest of the SR groupset.

[oldpotatoe]

Is this just for emergencies or a good way to connect the chain?

Since this is my first go with campy I don't have the chain tool. Do I spend the money and get the tool? I have a topeak chain tool that says it works with campagnolo but I've read the post advising against the park tool. I think the one I have is similar. Third option would be use the power connector?


Separate note, most of my stuff came in. The chorus brakes were not labeled where they are made so I guess China. The Record shifters were Romania. Everything else was made in Italy

Yes and yes but geez I've been riding for over 40m years and have never broken a chain. Install right and you won't either..

Biggest issue with Campag 11s and 12s is peening the pin and making sure the pin goes thru a 'virgin' plate..do that and you'll be fine. THEN, when you take the chain off for cleaning, re-attach with snap-link.

[Kyle h]

Being new to the Campy world, am I buying anything with going Record 12 over Chorus aside from nicer finish? Is Record Ultegra level and Chorus 105?

[thirdgenbird]

Historically, it was roughly record=dura ace and chorus=Ultegra

Over the years, Campagnolo has really changed things up. There were years where I would argue Chorus was as good as or better than Dura Ace. Shoot, the prime of Centaur was flirting with Dura Ace. At one time, centaur was ultra-shift, carbon ultra torque cranks, and had a carbon RD plate. I think it was lighter than Dura Ace and had a firmer shift feel if that is your thing.

Lately, it seems that Campagnolo is doing another adjustment to bring some groups down in price. 2015+ chorus 11 looks to be a spectacular but if kit that is right in there with Ultegra and Dura Ace.

With 12 speed, it appears Campagnolo has taken a bit of a GRX route. No 53/39, a subcompact offering, and reportedly a 1x option on the way.

I’ve been riding record 10 since it was the new thing and am moving to Chorus 12. Excited to compare.

[tomato coupe]

Being new to the Campy world, am I buying anything with going Record 12 over Chorus aside from nicer finish? Is Record Ultegra level and Chorus 105?
They don't line up exactly, but they're often listed in this order:

Record > Ultegra > Chorus > 105.

(If you want some serious entertainment, add Super Record and Dura-Ace to the mix, and watch the sparks fly.)

[AngryScientist]

Record > Ultegra > Chorus > 105.



laughably incorrect.

https://icon2.cleanpng.com/20180703/qfr/kisspng-postage-stamps-rubber-stamp-wrong-sign-5b3b2a66cd9230.278749011530604134842.jpg

[jtbadge]

Opinions can't be incorrect, let alone "laughably" so.

[tomato coupe]

laughably incorrect.
You must be a Campy fan.

[donevwil]

One thing can't be disputed:

12 > 11 > 10 > 9 ..........

[AngryScientist]

Opinions can't be incorrect, let alone "laughably" so.

Also incorrect. I know, because I am laughing. :banana:

You must be a Campy fan.

i dont discriminate.

i use shimano often as well:

https://www.marinegeneral.com/wp-lib/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Stella-FJ.jpg

[jtbadge]

Chorus 12 looks and feels cheaper than R7000 105, but don't let a little religion about inanimate objects get in the way of a good time.

[donevwil]

What compact 180mm low Q non-sq taper crank would one recommend with Campy 12?

A Shimano (9000 or 9100) pairing looks inevitable as I plan my next custom with a jump from 10 to 12.

[cgolvin]

One thing can't be disputed:

12 > 11 > 10 > 9 ..........

It depends in which system you're working ;-)

[AngryScientist]

What compact 180mm low Q non-sq taper crank would one recommend with Campy 12?

A Shimano (9000 or 9100) pairing looks inevitable as I plan my next custom with a jump from 10 to 12.

is the White Industries R30 a candidate? I think the black one would look good with a campy group and comes in 180.

Q is a little higher @ 157.2, is that too much?

[thirdgenbird]

If I were Campagnolo, I would be tempted to do the following refresh this year:

Potenza:
Give it the carbon crank and brake blades left over from chorus 11. Change the logos to match Centaur. Ditch the two tone black for gloss black.

Centaur:
Change the crankset to the same BCD as chorus 12 and offer a subcompact. Work with tektro (as they have in the past) to make a sprye variant that is optimized for Campagnolo levers. Offer them in silver.

This would give them two ranges.

Race/road
Super record EPS (12)
Super record (12 ultra shift)
Record (12 ultra shift)
Potenza (11 power shift)

All road/gravel
Chorus (12 ultra shift)
Centaur (11 power shift)

This could give them some defined groups that can share SKUs for small parts like they have e historically done without creating a lot of new part numbers.

[tomato coupe]

One thing can't be disputed:

12 > 11 > 10 > 9 ..........

Yes, undisputable.

[vincenz]

They don't line up exactly, but they're often listed in this order:

SR > Record > Dura-Ace > Chorus > Ultegra > 105




Fixed that for you.

[vincenz]

Also incorrect. I know, because I am laughing. :banana:



i dont discriminate.

i use shimano often as well:

https://www.marinegeneral.com/wp-lib/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Stella-FJ.jpg


That actually looks pretty good, not even tongue in cheek.

They should trickle that down to their groupsets.

[tomato coupe]

Fixed that for you.
Could be.

[donevwil]

is the White Industries R30 a candidate? I think the black one would look good with a campy group and comes in 180.

Q is a little higher @ 157.2, is that too much?

Unfortunately, according to my knees, about 9.8mm too much.

Honestly, WI sq taper is a legit option (I have two sets already) if the rings prove 12 spd compatible, but I'm specifically thinking of a travel bike application for which I prefer modern axle tech.

[Dave]

The new Chorus 12 gets a little downgrade with the black aluminum shift levers, but they feel and work great. Chorus 12 is a big step up from ultegra, IMO. Of course it costs more, but I felt like $1060 for Chorus 12 was money well spent. The 48/32 and 11-34 are perfect for the terrain I ride.

[robertbb]

If I were Campagnolo, I would be tempted to do the following refresh this year:

Potenza:
Give it the carbon crank and brake blades left over from chorus 11. Change the logos to match Centaur. Ditch the two tone black for gloss black.

Centaur:
Change the crankset to the same BCD as chorus 12 and offer a subcompact. Work with tektro (as they have in the past) to make a sprye variant that is optimized for Campagnolo levers. Offer them in silver.

This would give them two ranges.

Race/road
Super record EPS (12)
Super record (12 ultra shift)
Record (12 ultra shift)
Potenza (11 power shift)

All road/gravel
Chorus (12 ultra shift)
Centaur (11 power shift)

This could give them some defined groups that can share SKUs for small parts like they have e historically done without creating a lot of new part numbers.

The question is, where does their (rumoured) 1x groupset fit in?

I notice that on the Campy site, Super Record and Record are shown as "12 speed" while Chorus is shown as 12x2 speed.

https://www.campagnolo.com/AU/en/Groupsets/mechanical_groupsets_for_racing_bicycles?f=1000

Seems to suggest there is a 12x1 speed on its way at Chorus level. Lines up with the design of that sub-compact crank - while I havn't seen it in the flesh, those bolt holes look like they may support a 1x chanring.

I'm very curious to know what happens to Potenza since Chorus has already been "downgraded" to being an alloy group (except the crank). Does Potenza get a refresh and stay 11 speed..?

[thirdgenbird]

the 1x group could be a halo product of the all road/gravel category. Use the chorus name, a new one, or dig up one from history.

I could see potenza staying 11 but getting some upgrades. Basically make it a similar tier to a Chorus but for a different purpose. I don’t see why potenza couldn’t get some carbon bits. Lighter and gearing options suitable for more traditional road riding. Keep the 53/39 crankset option. Offset cost by keeping it powershift and 11 speed. Potenza and chorus could end up at a similar price but have different markets. Similar to ultegra and GRX.

[clarendon]

Yes, that is exactly what I bought so that I could have an extra to carry in my saddle bag.

Just for clarity: I have Chorus 12 but given the compatibility across groups assume it will work fine with SR12.

Just an update that the Eagle 12sp Powerlink is working fine on SR 12 (so far...). Pretty straightforward to install. Thanks all for your advice.

[thirdgenbird]

Done.

Road trim pictured.

I’ve got a second wheelset with Gravel King EXT tires and an 11-34

[Velocipede]

Done.

Road trim pictured.

I’ve got a second wheelset with Gravel King EXT tires and an 11-34

That's hot looking!!! Always loved me a Yeti.

[thirdgenbird]

That's hot looking!!! Always loved me a Yeti.

Thanks! And thank you for helping to get parts in this crazy time.

The chorus group looks and feels like a perfect match for the frame. I may not get a great chance to really put it to the test until the weekend, but my initial short ride was great. It’s a good thing. This is intended to get over 90% of my miles.

[zap]

Enjoy the ride. Chorus 12 on our travel tandem is a joy......albiet with an Ultegra front derailleur as the tandem chainline is just beyond the Chorus front derailleur's capacity.

[ciclista_tifoso]

.

[With the disclaimer that this is all subjective]

For those of you that switched from Shimano/SRAM to Campy, did it take time to adjust to the location/positioning of the thumb shifters?

I'm strongly considering Chorus 12 on my next bike (an "all terrain" bike, so there'll be no racing going on), but have only ridden Ultegra on road bikes to this point -- no complaints, always reliable. I plan to test ride a campy setup in the weeks ahead, but interested in other perspectives on this. The thumb shifters appear to be placed to avoid 'getting in the way' when not shifting, but within reach to minimize the need to stretch much.

Ultimately it's just a matter of getting out there and testing the shifters myself, of course.

[FlashUNC]

The question is, where does their (rumoured) 1x groupset fit in?

I notice that on the Campy site, Super Record and Record are shown as "12 speed" while Chorus is shown as 12x2 speed.

https://www.campagnolo.com/AU/en/Groupsets/mechanical_groupsets_for_racing_bicycles?f=1000

Seems to suggest there is a 12x1 speed on its way at Chorus level. Lines up with the design of that sub-compact crank - while I havn't seen it in the flesh, those bolt holes look like they may support a 1x chanring.

I'm very curious to know what happens to Potenza since Chorus has already been "downgraded" to being an alloy group (except the crank). Does Potenza get a refresh and stay 11 speed..?

It's going to be 1x13 by all rumors.

[duff_duffy]

I never thought I’d see the day where I like that Thomson setback post...but today is that day!

Done.

Road trim pictured.

I’ve got a second wheelset with Gravel King EXT tires and an 11-34

[thirdgenbird]

I never thought I’d see the day where I like that Thomson setback post...but today is that day!

Thanks!

I am pretty confident it’s the only seatpost for the build.

[jtbadge]

I never thought I’d see the day where I like that Thomson setback post...but today is that day!

They definitely need to be used with a sloping TT where there will be a lot of exposed post. Really fits the 90s/aughts MTB/cross bike vibe.

[Dave]

.

[With the disclaimer that this is all subjective]

For those of you that switched from Shimano/SRAM to Campy, did it take time to adjust to the location/positioning of the thumb shifters?

I'm strongly considering Chorus 12 on my next bike (an "all terrain" bike, so there'll be no racing going on), but have only ridden Ultegra on road bikes to this point -- no complaints, always reliable. I plan to test ride a campy setup in the weeks ahead, but interested in other perspectives on this. The thumb shifters appear to be placed to avoid 'getting in the way' when not shifting, but within reach to minimize the need to stretch much.

Ultimately it's just a matter of getting out there and testing the shifters myself, of course.

I made the switch way back when both were 8 speed. I had a Cannondale with Ultegra STI and bought a Tommasini Sintesi frame. An Italian bike needs Italian components, so I bought my first Campy Record group for it. After the first ride I was sold. I never bought shimano again.

I have small hands and I've read comments about thumb button issues, but I always wonder if those users are trying to push the button with the end of their thumb. I use whatever parts touches the end of the button. Being able to shift 3 sprockets smaller with a quick push beats the tap tap tap.

[s4life]

I am planning on using SR12 disc with SRAM Eagle cassettes. I run a similar setup with 11 speed (SR11 with X-1190 cassettes) and works beautifully. Anyone has run this setup before? It seems it could work

[Velocipede]

I never thought I’d see the day where I like that Thomson setback post...but today is that day!

It looks perfect of this build. I am not a fan of the bent post but it looks great on this one.

Thanks!

I am pretty confident it’s the only seatpost for the build.

Agreed. It looks perfect. Great build on it.

It's going to be 1x13 by all rumors.

No comment. ;). But whatever it is I have it on order already. I will say, I really like it. It has my vote for a new __________.(fill in the blank).

[ciclista_tifoso]

I made the switch way back when both were 8 speed. I had a Cannondale with Ultegra STI and bought a Tommasini Sintesi frame. An Italian bike needs Italian components, so I bought my first Campy Record group for it. After the first ride I was sold. I never bought shimano again.

I have small hands and I've read comments about thumb button issues, but I always wonder if those users are trying to push the button with the end of their thumb. I use whatever parts touches the end of the button. Being able to shift 3 sprockets smaller with a quick push beats the tap tap tap.

Helpful to know, thanks!

I have relatively large mitts (6' tall) so may need to test them out on a test ride to see how those thumb shifters may impact my general handlebar-riding positions.


.

[Dave]

Campy brake hoods also have a shorter reach than the others, so you may need longer reach bars or a longer stem, compared to a shimano setup. With a short torso, I use 80mm reach bars.

I notice trek using long 100mm reach bars and stubby stems on their stock bikes. Some folks might have some knee to bar contact with that type of setup.

[thirdgenbird]

Really fits the 90s/aughts MTB/cross bike vibe.

This vibe?

[oldpotatoe]

Done.

Road trim pictured.

I’ve got a second wheelset with Gravel King EXT tires and an 11-34

GORGEOUS..copy to sram...:eek:

[oldpotatoe]

.

[With the disclaimer that this is all subjective]

For those of you that switched from Shimano/SRAM to Campy, did it take time to adjust to the location/positioning of the thumb shifters?

I'm strongly considering Chorus 12 on my next bike (an "all terrain" bike, so there'll be no racing going on), but have only ridden Ultegra on road bikes to this point -- no complaints, always reliable. I plan to test ride a campy setup in the weeks ahead, but interested in other perspectives on this. The thumb shifters appear to be placed to avoid 'getting in the way' when not shifting, but within reach to minimize the need to stretch much.

Ultimately it's just a matter of getting out there and testing the shifters myself, of course.

Of course..when in the trenches, we always said get the lever that your hands like the most..if your hands don't care, get Campagnolo.:)

BUT, the thumb button on Campagnolo shifters have been around for almost 30 years..you'll find it's easy..MUCH clickier shifts too(compared to shimano) with the ability to select more than one higher gear at a time plus much more forgiving front der..you'll love it.

[ciclista_tifoso]

.


Sound advice -- I imagine I will indeed once I get my mitts on them..

[acorn_user]

.


Sound advice -- I imagine I will indeed once I get my mitts on them..

I always found that the biggest change was that the brake levers are fixed and don't move. I have small hands and I found I didn't like braking from the hoods with Shimano, but did with Campagnolo. So that settled it :) (I have ridden lots of miles on Shimano over the years though, but I've always had Campagnolo 9 on my main bike until this year when I went to 12).

[skiezo]

Reviving this old thread. Having some issues with my 10 speed record/chorus mix after about 30K mile and one rebuild. I will get both shifters rebuilt by my LBS but had to see what is new after so long on 10S.
So I just ordered a chorus 12,34/50, 11/32, 172.5 cranks to go on the Ti Desalvo. I do have a set of 11S record brakes NIB that my go on instead of the chorus brakes.
Velomine has the best price on this set so he get my $$.