Tubular storing question

[Loro_tomas]

How do you properly store your tubular tires? I just bought veloflex carbons for this season and would like to store them correctly.


Thanks


Loro.

[catulle]

How do you properly store your tubular tires? I just bought veloflex carbons for this season and would like to store them correctly.
ThanksLoro.

I keep them on old rims, and away from humidity.

[saab2000]

I store a couple on old rims which I keep inside my Campagnolo wheel bags in the garage or basement.

No direct sunlight
No significant heat
No folding

[Loro_tomas]

what do you do in the absence of old rims?

loro

[catulle]

:eek:

[saab2000]

what do you do in the absence of old rims?

loro

Try to buy one or two. They are all over the place on eBay for very cheap. Probably $5 or $10 a rim.

Otherwise you could get one of these things in the hardware store that you can hang a garden hose from. Something which will not cause a fold to occur.

Ideally, a rim is used as will serve the purpose of stretching the tire for easy mounting.

[stevep]

dont fold them.
should be laid flat in a box. lay 'em down w/ no creases....flat and round...or on a rim on hooks as suggested.
should not be folded to ship either ( this for handmade tires ) vulcanized tires are good for spares only and it doesnt matter.

[11.4]

You're in Costa Rica? Well, tubulars need to be stored dry, cool, dust-free and dark. They don't really need to be on rims -- it doesn't hurt, but if you let them sit deflated on the ground on rims then you'll have deterioration. Storage on rims used to be a way to improve the out-gassing of solvents and various other compounds from the rubber (and to a lesser extent from the casings), but this isn't as critical any longer with newer materials and construction methods. No tires like to be folded up when stored, either, so try to keep them in their open circular shape.

Even when I'm stashing a big pile of super-expensive track tubulars (Dugasts, Conti Olympics, Vittorias, etc.), I mount them on rims and leave them a couple days inflated hard to be sure they aren't defective. Then I remove them and put them largely deflated in a wheel box lined with a big plastic trash bag. The box is big enough so the tires don't have to be folded and can stay round. In the bottom of the bag I have a couple dehumidifier cartridges so there's no condensation or dampness on the tires. Then the whole box just goes into a closet that stays dark and cool. Never put them in a hot garage or where they can collect dust. Always store tires with any glue on them separately, so it doesn't transfer onto the new tires. I wait to scrape off base-tape latex (on those tires that have it) until I am ready to use the tires, because it helps promote a more even aging of the casing -- you will have less deterioration of the latex used to hold the base tape to the tire (ever notice that tires without latex on the base tape, such as Conti's, lose their base tapes faster than on tires with latex?).

[Needs Help]

What about glued up spares? Do you unfold them after the season is over and store them on rims? And, what about the deflated tubulars on the wheels on your bike? Is it ok to let them sit for long periods uninflated?

[saab2000]

(ever notice that tires without latex on the base tape, such as Conti's, lose their base tapes faster than on tires with latex?).

Yes. This is why I will not buy Continentals anymore. Veloflex for me. In two season I had one flat. So the initial cost is a non-issue.

[Loro_tomas]

You're in Costa Rica?


Yes, I am Costarrican. Thanks a lot for the tips. You have been very helpful.

Loro.

[11.4]

What about glued up spares? Do you unfold them after the season is over and store them on rims? And, what about the deflated tubulars on the wheels on your bike? Is it ok to let them sit for long periods uninflated?

I usually have a couple tires glued up so I can save that step if I have to replace a tire. I know I'll be using them within a few months, so I don't worry as much about long-term storage -- I lay them flat, open, dark, cool, on top of the box that holds the virgin ones. A current active spare never leaves the bike because I ride tubulars year-round, but if I were to ride clinchers for a while I'd unfold it, inflate it to work out the kinks, and put it wherever the glue won't make a mess -- it's already been ridden, torqued in the removal, and then twisted up and strapped down under my saddle, so there's not much more evil I can do to it. As for tires on wheels, I have them hanging from hooks screwed into rafters. I don't let them sit on the ground -- tires go bad pretty quickly if there's any pressure on them at all while they're sitting uninflated on the ground. State of inflation doesn't matter -- it's having them up off the ground that's important.

[11.4]

Yes, I am Costarrican. Thanks a lot for the tips. You have been very helpful.

Loro.

You just have extra issues to deal with compared to many US tubular users. You have humidity, heat, more humidity from airconditioning, and a propensity under those conditions for mildew to develop. It's important to keep the tires where they are cool and dry. When I've lived in hot climates, I've kept tires at my office (which had pretty controlled temperature and humidity). Savings you get on a bulk tire purchase rapidly dissipate if you have 3-4 out of ten tires go bad before you use them, so you may simply need to get fewer.

All of this can be modulated a bit depending on how fast you go through tubulars. If you go through a rear tubular a month, or two or three (including punctures), you can be much more casual about it -- you'll be using the tires up before you encounter deterioration. Knocking on wood, I can ride a rear Veloflex road tubular for around 2500-3500 miles (when it becomes so bald I remove it just so I don't start incurring punctures), so I worry more about how I store the road tubulars. On the track, one major event can wear through a pair of light track tubulars, so I can go through a number of tires in a season.

If you're buying tires like Conti Sprinters, you have pretty durable tires that are more tolerant of environmental conditions. I wouldn't be hesitant about just leaving Sprinters folded up (after testing them for good pressure) until they were used. These comments above really refer more to good tubulars such as Veloflexes, Dugasts, Vittoria Evo series, etc.

[terrytnt]

Great helpful tips 11.4,

I too am a year-around tubular rider. Averaging 3-5k per year. What I've done is mount my new tubulars on a back-up set of rims (Eurus) and maintain covered inside my campy bags. I generally leave them inflated but of course over time they deflate. I had in fact left them upright vs. flat (in the basement- climate controlled and cool). Based on what you've said, I may consider laying them flat or simply hanging so they don't rest vertically on the tire/ rim. Thoughts?

Also, I'm the guy who just purchased a new TT Roller for Christmas... which is fabulous! I did notice however that I get a very slight thump as my tires rotate over the rollers (less noticeable when I over inflate my tubulars). I know it's not the rollers so figure my well worn Veloflex (2500+ miles) may not be so perfectly round (which is not as evident on the road as it is on rollers). Have you encountered this? May simply be time to change out my tires.

any thoughts appreciated...

[saab2000]

As far as the less than perfect roundness goes, I have also noticed this. But I think it is partly a function of mounting and gluing the tires. I consider my glue jobs to be good and safe, but that's all.

I saw a buddy glue a Vittoria last year over a period of several days and I don't know how he did it (I NEED to learn) but it was absolutely perfectly straight and had no hops or unevenness at all.

So while I don't know how you glue them, Mr. Terrytnt, it is possible that a more perfect mounting job would eliminate that problem. I also use Veloflex and they are not perfect on my glue jobs, but I don't blame the tire. I blame myself.

[Too Tall]

Great advice 11.4. Same same similar. I test my new tubulars than deflate to about 30 lbs and stick them into a garbage bag, that goes into an interior closet until they come out for stretching.

Spares are always an old tyre and are re-glued every three months or so with a light smear of glue and I'll re-test the tyre overnight. They get rough treatment...if I'm feeling really bored I'll re-latex sidewalls on the spare if it needs...but that almost never happens ;) Haha, I've got a ancient Conti. Competition spare that won't die. It dates back to 1999 and has >3,000 miles and was used in RAAM ridden across the USA no FLATS!!! In terms of junky tubular spares I "baby" that one :) haha.

Terry, currently I am running a set of Conti. Competitions 25's and the rear has a minor defect. Despite my most aggressive attempts to re-seat and massage the hop out of it, it ain't happening. These tyres are approaching 3,000 miles and are about to become spares....I may burn that rear tyre just to get even.

[theprep]

Isn't it amazing how little information regarding handling and using tubular tires is presented by the manufacturers to us, the end users. If it wasn't for this forum and especially Mr. 11.4 I would be operating in complete darkness.

IMHO it is pretty irresponsible for manufacturers to ignore:
glue types
rim prep
tape prep - latex on or off
number glue coats
dry time between coats
removing old glue
tire storage - bla, bla, bla

Thanks guys for passing on your tubular knowledge.

Joe

[Needs Help]

Thanks.

[terrytnt]

Saab2000, I suspect you're right about where the error lies... likely with me. Though I've glued tubulars for years (never used clinchers... how about that :D ), I've always errored on the less glue not more. Why... don't race, never rolled a tire and when I go to remove, always need to ensure I haven't lefted weights that night because it's such an effort to remove the old or punctured tire.

What I have noticed about my glueing over the past year is that more often than not after I've glued a new or used tire, I detect a sound from the tire/rim while riding on the road which indicates a section on the rim that may not have been sufficiently glued (I'm thinking a very small section of the tire pulls away from the rim on rotation, thereby cause this sound. Interestly, after about 100+ miles the sound goes away).

Lesson learned is to place more glue (I currently use about 1/2 to 2/3 tube of glue per wheel). This could be part of reason for very slight thump on the rollers (again NOT detectable on the road).

Bottomline, I love my tubulars... the feel of the ride and durability. Just purchased a new set of 2006 Campy Eurus wheels (at 40% off). Which at that price makes them very close to custom build wheels to backup my Neutrons. They arrive Friday, and with Veloflex Carbons should provide a very different ride to Neutrons.

[Needs Help]

Great helpful tips 11.4,

I too am a year-around tubular rider. Averaging 3-5k per year. What I've done is mount my new tubulars on a back-up set of rims (Eurus) and maintain covered inside my campy bags. I generally leave them inflated but of course over time they deflate. I had in fact left them upright vs. flat (in the basement- climate controlled and cool). Based on what you've said, I may consider laying them flat or simply hanging so they don't rest vertically on the tire/ rim. Thoughts?...
As for tires on wheels, I have them hanging from hooks screwed into rafters. I don't let them sit on the ground -- tires go bad pretty quickly if there's any pressure on them at all while they're sitting uninflated on the ground. State of inflation doesn't matter -- it's having them up off the ground that's important.

[saab2000]

Saab2000, I suspect you're right about where the error lies... likely with me. Though I've glued tubulars for years (never used clinchers... how about that :D ), I've always errored on the less glue not more. Why... don't race, never rolled a tire and when I go to remove, always need to ensure I haven't lefted weights that night because it's such an effort to remove the old or punctured tire.


Bottomline, I love my tubulars... the feel of the ride and durability. Just purchased a new set of 2006 Campy Eurus wheels (at 40% off). Which at that price makes them very close to custom build wheels to backup my Neutrons. They arrive Friday, and with Veloflex Carbons should provide a very different ride to Neutrons.

I tend to err on the side of more glue. When I get to Washington I will have Too Tall teach me the real art of gluing. I too have been using them on and off for years. Never rolled one, even in races. But my glue jobs have been a bit sloppy and never as good as some I have seen.

Please report on the 2006 Eurus tubulars. I am very curious about how they ride compared to the Nucleon tubulars I have.

[Too Tall]

Terry, that sound is a bad / no bond which you knew. If you are using tires that have a latex coating that you missed a spot. Otherwise you may have contamination (dirt or old hard glue etc.) in that spot.

[terrytnt]

Got it on the wheels, I use a Park Team Stand for my bike when NOT in use, buttttttt, the front wheel is always standing on end on the floor. THAT WILL CHANGE FROM TODAY FORWARD. I'll hang the front wheel so there's no pressure on the tire. Also will hang my new Eurus wheels once they're mounted

GREAT ADVICE!

Too Tall, as for the glue, you bring up a really good question about existing glue on the rim. I've always thought it was acceptable to simply glue over the existing glue when installing a new tire. Are you suggesting we remove the old glue before mounting a new tire so as to avoid the 'old dry glue'? If so, what solvent have you found best? I've used Acetone and Goof Off in the past.

[MartyE]

I've used plain mineral spirits from home despot to remove old
glue residue.

Marty

[Too Tall]

Only remove glue if it is not a good surface for new glue. Examples:
1. dry glue (could break off, lumpy, bad surface to bond)
2. thick spots (glue build up)
3. incompatible with glue you plan to use (you need to test this or ask someone who knows. Vittoria, Conti., Panaracer, SOYO all seem compatible in my world. Old Clement red glue is a real problem.)
4. you are bored

I generally don't use solvents on prev. glued rims. Instead, if the wheel needs it I'll shave high spots off or for dry / brittle glue. If glue is solid leave it.

[terrytnt]

Understand Too Tall. That was what I had originally thought. In the past, it was rare for me to strip glue off rims, plus I always use the same glue (Vittoria).

For this situation, I think it was just a matter of insufficient glue on one or two portions of the rim. I'll watch for this next time.

appreciate the advice folks,

tnt

[11.4]

What I have noticed about my glueing over the past year is that more often than not after I've glued a new or used tire, I detect a sound from the tire/rim while riding on the road which indicates a section on the rim that may not have been sufficiently glued (I'm thinking a very small section of the tire pulls away from the rim on rotation, thereby cause this sound. Interestly, after about 100+ miles the sound goes away).

You're probably undergluing around the valve stem, and/or the valve stem has some bulk around it and doesn't seat flush to the rim bed. If your valve stem is slightly mismatched to the valve hole in the rim (in terms of size), then it can also snap back and forth slightly and create an odd sound (not necessarily a metal clicking). But the usual cause of this noise is that your tire is raised up off the rim bed by bulk around your valve stem. Sooner or later it just stays stuck, or the bulk around the valve stem gets compressed, or whatever. You can trim a bit of extra base tape off if it makes a perceptible lump around the stem, you can ream out the spoke hole on the tire bed side to accommodate more bulk (you used to have to do this all the time with older tubulars that had little nuts fastening them to the tube).

[11.4]

Also, I'm the guy who just purchased a new TT Roller for Christmas... which is fabulous! I did notice however that I get a very slight thump as my tires rotate over the rollers (less noticeable when I over inflate my tubulars). I know it's not the rollers so figure my well worn Veloflex (2500+ miles) may not be so perfectly round (which is not as evident on the road as it is on rollers). Have you encountered this? May simply be time to change out my tires.

any thoughts appreciated...

Rollers, especially good ones, will pick up just about any irregularity in a tire. I tend to ride tires on rollers at about 15 psi greater than what I use on the road, partly to come closer to match the feel with track use and partly to overcome problems with road tubulars.

Tire wear isn't likely to be an issue for you. When one mounts a tubular, it's important to be stretching it hard right from the beginning. Sometimes there's a dip in the tire right at the valve -- this is poor manufacturing and in an expensive tire, I'd complain. Conti's have had this problem regularly in my experience. But when you have a dip opposite the valve, it's because you didn't stretch hard enough at the beginning so you had to elongate and skinny up the tire to get the last part onto the rim. I use full body weight to pull the tire tight as it starts going on, and if the last part goes on relatively more easily, it'll all be pretty even.

The nastiest tire to mount I've ever encountered is a Conti Olympic track tire. I swore they were 650's when I first mounted them, but they're all unbelievably tight. Beautifully made and good adhesion, and worth the money, but they are tires to hand to a mechanic to mount. Crazy. That's a tire that really forces you into good tire mounting practice or you simply don't get it on the rim.

When I test new expensive tires, I mount them on an old tubular front wheel I built up with a clean rim. With this, I can pump up the tire, stick it in a truing stand, and make sure that the tire doesn't have any dips or bumps. You can't usually see them unless they're very obvious when you have the tire on a bare rim. I do catch bad batches this way and can return them before they are glued or otherwise non-returnable. (I don't expect a cheap tire to be perfect, but a Veloflex, Dugast, or Vittoria Evo, yes. Thankfully, with good tires, I have very few returns. Veloflexes and Vittoria Evos -- from track to Evo Pave CG -- have been faultless for me.)