Base Layers - natural material fiber suggestions needed

[19wisconsin64]

Hi All,
Looking for some suggestions to replace my existing base layers. Right now I'm using Uniqlo Heat Tech turtlenecks and T shirts, and some older Rapha merino layers (that are a little too scratchy for me).

Does anyone know of some brands that use the modal or silk? Trying to figure out what work best, and be a natural fabric.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

[unterhausen]

I'm pretty happy with a thin wool blend base layer, even in extreme heat. Unfortunately, I can't recommend any brands

[ColonelJLloyd]

I'm pretty happy with a thin wool blend base layer, even in extreme heat. Unfortunately, I can't recommend any brands

+1

Icebreaker is great.

Does anyone know of some brands that use the modal or silk? Trying to figure out what work best, and be a natural fabric.


Swrve uses a bamboo modal.

[slowpoke]

Is your issue with baselayers sweat management in the winter, or that they're not warm enough?

If you don't sweat a lot, merino is fine. But for heavy sweaters, it needs to be a merino/poly blend, or full synthetic (with the stink caveat).

Also look at mesh base layers, such as Brynje: https://www.brynjeusa.com/

[Mark McM]

What do you mean by "synthetic"? Polyester started as dinosaurs, and dinosaurs were "natural", so is polyester a synthetic?

The above is not meant to be facetious, just a preface to pointing out that many "natural" fibers aren't particular natural. This is especially the case for "bamboo" or "bamboo modal", which are not actually natural fibers, their really just other names for Rayon.

[slowpoke]

Yeah, the issue isn't the definition of "synthetic", but the marketing of highly processed materials as "natural" for the clothing industry's benefit. Tencel is another example.

Ultimately, it comes down to what traits the wearer is looking for.

[weaponsgrade]

I picked up some merino base layers from Isadore and they've become one of my favorites. Not to sound gross, but I can wear them multiple times without them stinking up. I wear them on cold days regardless of whether I'm riding.

[fmradio516]

I picked up some merino base layers from Isadore and they've become one of my favorites. Not to sound gross, but I can wear them multiple times without them stinking up. I wear them on cold days regardless of whether I'm riding.

Never checked these guys out, but i just did and man theyre expensive. Worth it? Do you still feel the sweat after a workout or are you completely dry?

[robt57]

Wool micros for cold, and silk for not cold...

[verticaldoug]

I am a huge fan of Craft base layers. I prefer the synthetics, but they also have wool.

Uniqlo heat tech is okay for urban use but not real athletics.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Not to sound gross, but I can wear them multiple times without them stinking up.

This is one reason I go to merino, especially with bikepacking gear. All my socks are merino now, mostly Darn Tough with some Smartwool and Wigwam.

[verticaldoug]

This is one reason I go to merino, especially with bikepacking gear. All my socks are merino now, mostly Darn Tough with some Smartwool and Wigwam.

I guess you don't eat animal fats. Or else the people around you really love you and aren't telling you.

[Jaybee]

I guess you don't eat animal fats. Or else the people around you really love you and aren't telling you.

That's not love... the opposite actually. ;-)

[Blue Jays]

I wear wool tee-shirts pretty much everyday as my main go-to baselayer.
For riding and running...I stick to compression synthetics for cost-control.
I would love to wear wool for everything, yet that would get crazy expensive.

[weaponsgrade]

Never checked these guys out, but i just did and man theyre expensive. Worth it? Do you still feel the sweat after a workout or are you completely dry?

I bought mine during one of their holiday sales. Yes, they’re more expensive than the synthetic base layers (and I also have a bunch of those), but they do a much better job at regulating body temperature and pulling sweat away from the body. They’re also 100% merino and feel baby bottom soft against your skin. Not all base layers marketed as merino are 100% merino. I look at it this way. I have to wash the synthetics after every ride. So one merino one is like 2 or 3 synthetic ones since the merino can be worn multiple times. I have a few merino socks too and they’re also awesome. Wearing some right now to keep my toes toasty and dry. I always dig past my cotton/synthetic blend socks to fish out the merino ones.

[slowpoke]

Before this turns into a merino wool fan thread, keep in mind merino has weaker abrasion resistance (durability) and it will still dry slower than polyester. This is why you see a lot of merino blends.

[DeBike]

Real silk is not cheap, but, it has a very high insulation to weight factor. I really like Terramar base layers. They are described as silklike, thin, light and breathable. I get them from Sierra Trading Post for a reasonable cost, especially when if I find they are on sale.

[owly]

https://www.silverskin.it/en/

Not sure what the yarn mix is.

Purchased a long sleeve item a year ago through an Italian cycling website.

Different material feel than anything I've tried. Extremely form fitting but not tight.

I feel its a better material/fit than the (older) Rapha Merino.

[19wisconsin64]

Great suggestions! Please keep them coming in!

Will be riding in Denmark, and upstate New York.

[Bob Ross]

This is when I lament the demise of Ibex: Their 150-weight merino wool is (was?) my absolute favorite for both long- and short-sleeved base layers...abrasion-resistance be damned.


"bamboo" or "bamboo modal", which are not actually natural fibers, their really just other names for Rayon.

mind = blown

[ColonelJLloyd]

This is when I lament the demise of Ibex: Their 150-weight merino wool is (was?) my absolute favorite for both long- and short-sleeved base layers...abrasion-resistance be damned.


+1 I need more Ibex bibs.

[Davist]

I like the bamboo/rayon stuff (didn't know that connection!), got a tasc long sleeve as a gift, really works well. When/if Sierra Trading opens back up, I've gotten a bunch of merino (various brands) there at good pricing. My tasc shirt has the thumb holes, but in use just means the sleeves are long enough for my monkey arms and cycling position, some of the more generic base layers come up short.

[Tickdoc]

+1 I need more Ibex bibs.

Amen to that. Mine are getting worn and they are the perfect 40-60 degree bib.

[dpdan93]

I picked up some merino base layers from Isadore and they've become one of my favorites. Not to sound gross, but I can wear them multiple times without them stinking up. I wear them on cold days regardless of whether I'm riding.

do you have their deep winter one?

[Gummee]

Is your issue with baselayers sweat management in the winter, or that they're not warm enough?

If you don't sweat a lot, merino is fine. But for heavy sweaters, it needs to be a merino/poly blend, or full synthetic (with the stink caveat).

Also look at mesh base layers, such as Brynje: https://www.brynjeusa.com/
Mesh base layers are the best thing since sliced bread. Each open area traps a pocket of air, which insulates, while letting vapor out.

Warmest thing you'll wear all winter
Coolest thing you'll wear all summer

AFA the OP: I've got a bunch of different weights of merino base layers from Smartwool, Ice Breaker, DHB, Hincapie, and a few I don't remember and layer them depending on temps. ...always starting with a mesh base layer

M

[rain dogs]

If you don't sweat a lot, merino is fine. But for heavy sweaters, it needs to be a merino/poly blend, or full synthetic (with the stink caveat).

Yes and No. I'm a heavy sweater, it's about layering strategy. I'm almost always dry when riding.

Merino can absorb up to 30% of it's weight in sweat before it saturates and will feel dry much monger than synthetics. If you're sweating enough to fully saturate a base layer then you're likely overdressed - afterall, sweating is your bodies way of telling you you are too hot. The thing is, lots of people wear merino base layers the same way as they wear other base layers and they aren't the same, firstly, because they are so much more thermally efficient (so it's going to insulate more when used as an insulator).

Dress appropraitely for merino (usually a little lighter), make sure you're taking advantage of the natural air permeability, and trust in the textile.

BTW, my wife and I make merino base layers, would be happy to give paceline special pricing in there tougher economic times. :)

[fmradio516]

Yes and No. I'm a heavy sweater, it's about layering strategy. I'm almost always dry when riding.

Merino can absorb up to 30% of it's weight in sweat before it saturates and will feel dry much monger than synthetics. If you're sweating enough to fully saturate a base layer then you're likely overdressed - afterall, sweating is your bodies way of telling you you are too hot. The thing is, lots of people wear merino base layers the same way as they wear other base layers and they aren't the same, firstly, because they are so much more thermally efficient (so it's going to insulate more when used as an insulator).

Dress appropraitely for merino (usually a little lighter), make sure you're taking advantage of the natural air permeability, and trust in the textile.

BTW, my wife and I make merino base layers, would be happy to give paceline special pricing in there tougher economic times. :)

whats the right way to wear merino?

And some paceline pricing would be awesome!

[efixler]

- The dhb, Craft and Icebreaker 100% merino base layers are all good. The dhb's are a little short so they don't work well off-bike, but on bike they are fine. It's hard to get the good Craft stuff in the US.

- To each their own, but I find there's a world of difference between the 100% merino base layers and the blends. The blend, IME are neither as comfortable as the blends, nor do they retain the brilliant multi-wear capability of Merino (as long as you let it vent between wearings)

I don't have a problem with merino baselayers getting wet from precipitation or perspiration, but everyone is different :)

I'd love to try a "locally" made base layer!

[weaponsgrade]

do you have their deep winter one?

I have the Merino SL:
https://isadore.com/grey-100-merino-sleeveless-baselayer

I didn't know merino doesn't have very good abrasion properties. So far my Isadores base layers have been holding up very well. I've only had them since last year though.

[efixler]

Will be riding in Denmark, and upstate New York.

If you are going to Denmark, you may want to want buy some _in_ Denmark, you are likely to find good merino base layers in plentiful supply at outdoor stores.

[rain dogs]

whats the right way to wear merino?

And some paceline pricing would be awesome!

Yeah! just touch base with us!, Re: the right way? there isn't a right way or a wrong way, per se, its a YMMV, but there are common 'tips' I guess you could say. It's like tires and tubes. There's little sense using latex tubes inside Gatorskins or Marathons. It's not wrong... but...it's not great.

The short and simple is: If you're using merino and covering it, try to ensure the layer going over is either the same (more merino) OR equally permeable/breathable.

The longer, more detailed is:

1. Merino works best if it can 'breathe'. The advantage of the textile is it holds water without feeling wet or getting saturated, so it buys you time to evaporate it off you - through moderate body heat (not overheated/heavy sweating) and air passing through the textile. That doesn't work well if you have an impermeable layer over top (most synthetics range from less permeable to almost impermeable unless the knit is changed ie. mesh). Merino works best under merino, but well under a variety of textiles. It is ideal for bicycling because of the high air flow associated with moving fast.

2. Don't heavily sweat! (or overheat). A. Heavy sweating is proven bad for performance and recovery. B. Heavy sweating is bad for temperature control... it's easier to get really cold suddenly. But you'll say...WHAT? HOW? That's ridiculous! That's done by starting the ride almost uncomfortably cold (but safely)... you'll quickly heat up! Dressing in layers and shedding those layers PRIOR to getting sweaty, when you're just getting warm... before things really get ripping fast/hard/hot! Always having your descent/emergency layer on hand (a gilet) for example. Picking the right weight of textile and having versatile garments (full zip that can open, for example) and trusting in merino... it has a wider range of usable comfort than an equivalent synthetic at the same weight - you don't have to worry so much about being under-dressed. Being cold/hot is much less sudden and much more gradual.

3. Understand that air permeability is key to cycling clothing especially merino. Merino is not indoor trainer wear. It's for outsiders. The beauty of it is the loft of the fibres is like a heat exchanger (with tons of surface area) so as cold wind enters the textile it gets warmed before it hits your skin taking the edge off, also when merino gets wet it becomes exothermic (it heats up!), this all aids the evaporative qualities and the textile stays dry (up to 30% of weight of moisture). Careful! The only time this isn't awesome, are long descents after hard efforts. You'll be high altitude, you'll be hot and although in merino you can stay warm/safe for 5-10min.... the permeability will cause too much heat loss after that time and you'll get cold like with anything. You should always have that wind layer with you. The decrease in body temperature is slower with merino (which normally is great) but it can give you a false sense of security on long mountain descents.

4. Lastly, keep your shells/rain protection/wind protection with you but use only when absolutely needed or you'll inhibit the above. Prior to a descent for example.

That's a lot, but I hope it helps and makes sense! Always happy to answer questions.

[Blue Jays]

Very insightful, informative, and helpful post @rain dogs!

[fmradio516]

Yeah! just touch base with us!, Re: the right way? there isn't a right way or a wrong way, per se, its a YMMV, but there are common 'tips' I guess you could say. It's like tires and tubes. There's little sense using latex tubes inside Gatorskins or Marathons. It's not wrong... but...it's not great.

The short and simple is: If you're using merino and covering it, try to ensure the layer going over is either the same (more merino) OR equally permeable/breathable.

The longer, more detailed is:

1. Merino works best if it can 'breathe'. The advantage of the textile is it holds water without feeling wet or getting saturated, so it buys you time to evaporate it off you - through moderate body heat (not overheated/heavy sweating) and air passing through the textile. That doesn't work well if you have an impermeable layer over top (most synthetics range from less permeable to almost impermeable unless the knit is changed ie. mesh). Merino works best under merino, but well under a variety of textiles. It is ideal for bicycling because of the high air flow associated with moving fast.

2. Don't heavily sweat! (or overheat). A. Heavy sweating is proven bad for performance and recovery. B. Heavy sweating is bad for temperature control... it's easier to get really cold suddenly. But you'll say...WHAT? HOW? That's ridiculous! That's done by starting the ride almost uncomfortably cold (but safely)... you'll quickly heat up! Dressing in layers and shedding those layers PRIOR to getting sweaty, when you're just getting warm... before things really get ripping fast/hard/hot! Always having your descent/emergency layer on hand (a gilet) for example. Picking the right weight of textile and having versatile garments (full zip that can open, for example) and trusting in merino... it has a wider range of usable comfort than an equivalent synthetic at the same weight - you don't have to worry so much about being under-dressed. Being cold/hot is much less sudden and much more gradual.

3. Understand that air permeability is key to cycling clothing especially merino. Merino is not indoor trainer wear. It's for outsiders. The beauty of it is the loft of the fibres is like a heat exchanger (with tons of surface area) so as cold wind enters the textile it gets warmed before it hits your skin taking the edge off, also when merino gets wet it becomes exothermic (it heats up!), this all aids the evaporative qualities and the textile stays dry (up to 30% of weight of moisture). Careful! The only time this isn't awesome, are long descents after hard efforts. You'll be high altitude, you'll be hot and although in merino you can stay warm/safe for 5-10min.... the permeability will cause too much heat loss after that time and you'll get cold like with anything. You should always have that wind layer with you. The decrease in body temperature is slower with merino (which normally is great) but it can give you a false sense of security on long mountain descents.

4. Lastly, keep your shells/rain protection/wind protection with you but use only when absolutely needed or you'll inhibit the above. Prior to a descent for example.

That's a lot, but I hope it helps and makes sense! Always happy to answer questions.

Thanks for posting this. I have been doing it wrong! I usually wear a merino base with a cheap jersey over it :(

[SoCalSteve]

Hi All,
Looking for some suggestions to replace my existing base layers. Right now I'm using Uniqlo Heat Tech turtlenecks and T shirts, and some older Rapha merino layers (that are a little too scratchy for me).

Does anyone know of some brands that use the modal or silk? Trying to figure out what work best, and be a natural fabric.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Funny, I love my Merino wool base layer tops and knee warmers from Rapha, well worth the $$$, imho...:confused: