Shimano road 12 speed?

[TMD]

Just curious if anyone has any info on a release date for 12 speed Dura Ace or Ultegra? Worth the wait?

[zmalwo]

Dura-Ace is supposed to come out this summer, but since all the big races are canceled, I think they will more than likely delay the release until the new groupset can gain publicity again. If no one can see them on new bikes until next year then there's really no point for them to release it now.

[saab2000]

Big question for me is whether or not the cassettes will be compatible with existing freehubs. Yet another new standard isn’t something we need.

I have always liked having more gears. It’s only been a positive in my experience. Looking forward to what they show.

[oldpotatoe]

Big question for me is whether or not the cassettes will be compatible with existing freehubs. Yet another new standard isn’t something we need.

I have always liked having more gears. It’s only been a positive in my experience. Looking forward to what they show.

'Probably' not if XTR 12s is any indication. Who knows what's going on in these wacky times. I would be surprised if shimano DIDN'T release it. I'm sure some pro riders are riding with it now.

[AngryScientist]

i'm curious to see if they will adopt some sub compact chainring options for the actual road groups.

maybe a 48/32 or even 46/30 at ultegra level would be well received and liked, i'm certain.

[mcteague]

'Probably' not if XTR 12s is any indication. Who knows what's going on in these wacky times. I would be surprised if shimano DIDN'T release it. I'm sure some pro riders are riding with it now.

But only on Zwift! :)

Tim

[Dave]

The hubs will surely be microspline, so plan on new wheels. I wonder if microspline can even be made to fit 130mm spacing. If not, it will be disc only. Fulcrum already sells microspline wheels, but only disc, with wider spacing.

[oldpotatoe]

The hubs will surely be microspline, so plan on new wheels. I wonder if microspline can even be made to fit 130mm spacing. If not, it will be disc only. Fulcrum already sells microspline wheels, but only disc, with wider spacing.

I found that really interesting. So, shimano engineers can't figure out how to put a 12s cogset onto a 11s freehub body? Really? No doubt as shimano was selling 10s, they had their eye on 11s..and the same for 12s when they are all in on selling 11s..

Yup, I really doubt shimano will make a 12s group for rim brakes either. LIke sram, it'll be disc and mostly electronic, IMHO..and make 11s shimano road essentially obsolete.

[AngryScientist]

The hubs will surely be microspline, so plan on new wheels. I wonder if microspline can even be made to fit 130mm spacing. If not, it will be disc only. Fulcrum already sells microspline wheels, but only disc, with wider spacing.

that's an interesting proposition.

honestly, i doubt shimano is ready to dump rim brakes at the DA level, but who knows? Obviously you are correct though, that it's all tied together, and if you cant get a 130 spaced 12-sp road hub, rim brakes are out - and the flip side of that is; would it be worth their time to produce (or anyone to buy) 130 road specific rim brake wheels, when rim brakes are on life support as it is.

I'm still a die hard campy guy, but the line in the sand is about to be drawn cutting off the rim brake crowd.

le-sigh.

[cribbit]

Dura-Ace is supposed to come out this summer, but since all the big races are canceled, I think they will more than likely delay the release until the new groupset can gain publicity again. If no one can see them on new bikes until next year then there's really no point for them to release it now.

There's a lot of people with a lot of time on their hands right now though.

[AngryScientist]

There's a lot of people with a lot of time on their hands right now though.

right, and shimano has to be saving on their marketing budget with all the big races cancelled. maybe they'll divert some bucks to a more virtual marketing campaign and release this summer while we're all hanging out.

[jemdet]

I fond that really interesting. So, shimano engineers can't figure out how to put a 12s cogset onto a 11s freehub body? Really? No doubt as shimano was selling 10s, they had their eye on 11s..and the same for 12s when they are all in on selling 11s..

Yup, I really doubt shimano will make a 12s group for rim brakes either. LIke sram, it'll be disc and mostly electronic, IMHO..and make 11s shimano road essentially obsolete.

SRAM sells an Etap AXS 12V rim brake group :)

Shimano could probably fit 12 cogs on their existing freehub, but not a 10t cog.

[oldpotatoe]

SRAM sells an Etap AXS 12V rim brake group :)

Shimano could probably fit 12 cogs on their existing freehub, but not a 10t cog.

AXS is electronic only..

Want 12s, mechanical and rim and no new rear hub?->Campagnolo...

[zzy]

Without saying too much, the HG freehub body is on the way out, and the new Di2 is p cool.

\/\/\/ - dingdingding

[Coffee Rider]

My understanding based on a friend who knows people having received non-denials is that the new group will be partially wireless. I hadn't heard any scuttlebutt about the freehubs. It would be nice if the new freehubs were backwards compatible.

[PacNW2Ford]

If the cassettes start with a 10T cog, they’re probably MicroSpline as I don’t think a 10T will fit on the present freehub body. Why we need a 10T is a different question.

[Coffee Rider]

Why we need a 10T is a different question.

I think we don't, though I realize my opinion doesn't count for much on this.

[Black Dog]

I think we don't, though I realize my opinion doesn't count for much on this.

Agreed on the part about the 10 cog not being needed.

[R3awak3n]

I think 10 is needed if they have 1x options but even with a 46/30 crank, having the 10 could be nice for someone.

[PacNW2Ford]

I miss the cassettes that started with a 12T! Sometimes even a 13T...

[Matt92037]

The prior Shimano freehub design had a good run, but it will be replaced with the upcomming 12sp rollout. I just hope that it is not something different than the current Microspline. Remember SRAM has a different XD hub for road and mountain. I would be happy if Shimano uses the same for both road and mountain. Something tells me this will be the case.

[bfd]

I miss the cassettes that started with a 12T! Sometimes even a 13T...

Currently, Shimano only sells the following 11 speed cassettes with a 12t:

12-25 DA, Ultegra, 105
12-28 DA

No 13t, but there is an Ultegra 14-25

For 11 speed, Campy sells the Centaur in 12-32, Potenza in 12-27

That appears to be it!

Good Luck!

[FlashUNC]

I think 10 is needed if they have 1x options but even with a 46/30 crank, having the 10 could be nice for someone.

46x10 is very nice.

[Mark McM]

For 11 speed, Campy sells the Centaur in 12-32, Potenza in 12-27

That appears to be it!

Campy 11spd cassettes are also available in 12-25 & 12-29. So, roughly half of the 11spd cassetts start with 11 (11-23, 11-25, 11-27, 11-29, 11-32), and the other half start with 12 (12-25, 12-27, 12-29, 12-32).

Sadly, Campy doesn't make one in the 13-32 size I would find ideal, but Miche makes a Campy compatible cassette in this size.

[9tubes]

Shimano? I think I remember that brand. What happened to them?

:bike:

[sethjs]

Anyone have any sense on timing for the new Di2 announcement? Sounds like some details (partially wireless, not the current freehub) are starting to trickle out...

[Coffee Rider]

Anyone have any sense on timing for the new Di2 announcement? Sounds like some details (partially wireless, not the current freehub) are starting to trickle out...

Based on what's happened in the past, the expectation was it would be on display at the tour with limited availability then showing up on 2021 bikes with aftermarket availability ramping up after that. I recall with the last introduction of the hydraulic stuff, etc., the order of prioritization was big OE accounts, then aftermarket, then smaller OE accounts.

FWIW, I am planning on building up a frame that I don't yet have with the new group and don't expect I'll be able to get my hands on one until 2021.

[pdmtong]

Partial wireless...so the shifters wirelessly communicate to the FD and RD while those two pieces remain internally wired to the battery?

[FlashUNC]

Partial wireless...so the shifters wirelessly communicate to the FD and RD while those two pieces remain internally wired to the battery?

That'd be my guess. Similar to the FSA system.

[Coffee Rider]

That'd be my guess. Similar to the FSA system.

That's my understanding as well.

[sg8357]

Shimano? I think I remember that brand. What happened to them?

:bike:

Shimano is for the people who can't afford Simplex.

What the world needs is a good 5 speed cassette hub.

[lavi]

Partial wireless...so the shifters wirelessly communicate to the FD and RD while those two pieces remain internally wired to the battery?

Wow. In only 4 short years, the big S has almost made it to where Sram has been sitting. Sheesh. Just go full wireless already. Why keep all the stupid wires and junction boxes and large batteries? I don't get it. Heaven forbid both Campy and Shimano admit (and adapt) that Sram kicked their asses with wireless.

Etap really blows. Don't try it.

I'm going back outside, sans mask, to yell at insects again.

Harumph! :butt:

[echappist]

Wow. In only 4 short years, the big S has almost made it to where Sram has been sitting. Sheesh. Just go full wireless already. Why keep all the stupid wires and junction boxes and large batteries? I don't get it. Heaven forbid both Campy and Shimano admit (and adapt) that Sram kicked their asses with wireless.

Etap really blows. Don't try it.

I'm going back outside, sans mask, to yell at insects again.

Harumph! :butt:

Sram may be innovative, but their QC has been rather subpar. To date I have had:
-shifter paddle on one 2013 Red 10 speed RHS shifter snap;
-the cam and bushing on the opposing LHS shifter deteriorating to the point that it could snap;
-one Red derailleur snap at the knuckle;
-one Sram quick release loosening and opening on a ride, causing a crash.

The only well-made Sram part I had was a first gen 10 speed Red RHS shifter; eventually sold it to a guy whose Sram shifter snapped...

I was an evangelist for Sram stuff for so long, but those are quite inexcusable.

Shimano may be heavier, but it's functional, sturdy, and reliable.

[R3awak3n]

Sram may be innovative, but their QC has been rather subpar. To date I have had:
-shifter paddle on one 2013 Red 10 speed RHS shifter snap;
-the cam and bushing on the opposing LHS shifter deteriorating to the point that it could snap;
-one Red derailleur snap at the knuckle;
-one Sram quick release loosening and opening on a ride, causing a crash.

The only well-made Sram part I had was a first gen 10 speed Red RHS shifter; eventually sold it to a guy whose Sram shifter snapped...

I was an evangelist for Sram stuff for so long, but those are quite inexcusable.

Shimano may be heavier, but it's functional, sturdy, and reliable.

I dunno, my sram stuff has been flawless. 2 etap groups and now a force 1x.

[bfd]

Shimano is for the people who can't afford Simplex.

What the world needs is a good 5 speed cassette hub.

There is one! Grand Bois makes 120mm rear hubs for both 5 and 6 speed cassettes:

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/09/21/grand-bois-5-speed-cassette-hubs/?iframe=true&theme_preview=true/

Good Luck!

[SoCalSteve]

I dunno, my sram stuff has been flawless. 2 etap groups and now a force 1x.

Same here, never an issue with eTap 11speed, both rim and HRD. Been flawless for me too...:)

[batman1425]

Sram may be innovative, but their QC has been rather subpar. To date I have had:
-shifter paddle on one 2013 Red 10 speed RHS shifter snap;
-the cam and bushing on the opposing LHS shifter deteriorating to the point that it could snap;
-one Red derailleur snap at the knuckle;
-one Sram quick release loosening and opening on a ride, causing a crash.

The only well-made Sram part I had was a first gen 10 speed Red RHS shifter; eventually sold it to a guy whose Sram shifter snapped...

I was an evangelist for Sram stuff for so long, but those are quite inexcusable.

Shimano may be heavier, but it's functional, sturdy, and reliable.

Had a gent 2 force shifter fail. Replaced with out questions, despite being out of warranty. A rival 10, original force 10, force 22, red 22 hydro, and eTap group that followed all performed flawlessly there after.

[9tubes]

No SRAM problems here, either mechanical or eTap.

No real Shimano problems either unless you count the complicated brifters that wear out and have no replaceable parts but that's become so common it's barely worth comment any longer.

[lavi]

Sram may be innovative, but their QC has been rather subpar.

I'm not denying any of that really. Head to head, I'd admit that Shimano stuff may nudge ahead of Sram.

I'm merely talking electronic shifting here. The simplicity/effectiveness/and awesomeness (aka radness) of etap is unsurpassed. I get that Shimano's shifting may be quicker/precise. Campy is just Campy (it still gets me revvvved up). Both of their hydro braking is arguable better too. Again, on the wireless, full wireless, up against all the damn wires, junction boxes, and batteries....no contest.

Apologies for the drift. I get that peeps get excited when new DA is set to roll off the line. I like looking at it too. I just struggle to understand the wires. Simple as that.

[SoCalSteve]

I'm not denying any of that really. Head to head, I'd admit that Shimano stuff may nudge ahead of Sram.

I'm merely talking electronic shifting here. The simplicity/effectiveness/and awesomeness (aka radness) of etap is unsurpassed. I get that Shimano's shifting may be quicker/precise. Campy is just Campy (it still gets me revvvved up). Both of their hydro braking is arguable better too. Again, on the wireless, full wireless, up against all the damn wires, junction boxes, and batteries....no contest.

Apologies for the drift. I get that peeps get excited when new DA is set to roll off the line. I like looking at it too. I just struggle to understand the wires. Simple as that.

I went from mechanical Shimano to DI2... after using eTap exclusively now for a few years, it certainly feels that “ wired “ groups should have been passed over. They just don’t make sense...I’ve been saying this forever...:banana:

[lavi]

I went from mechanical Shimano to DI2... after using eTap exclusively now for a few years, it certainly feels that “ wired “ groups should have been passed over. They just don’t make sense...I’ve been saying this forever...:banana:

We can certainly hang out! :beer:

[Velocipede]

My NDA has been in for a few months now, can't help you guys. ;)

[Coffee Rider]

I'll jump in here since it seems slightly more productive than yelling at clouds. I think Shimano and Campy look a lot better than SRAM, which is why I'm not getting SRAM in the near future. I have friends who have SRAM and really love it. I'm glad they enjoy it and I can't really object to what they have on their bikes, but I want mine to be visually appealing to me.

[SoCalSteve]

We can certainly hang out! :beer:

At a distance of 6’ ... :eek:

[saab2000]

I certainly hope 12-speed mechanical exists with rim brakes. I expect it will for a while though freehub standards may change. Certainly there are no engineering challenges that can’t be met. Otherwise it may be a great opportunity to try Campagnolo 12-speed. Loved the 10-speed Record. Maybe 12-speed is as sweet.

[jpang922]

This is probably why Shimano and Campy hasn’t forgone the wires yet...
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20140102237A1/en

[Velocipede]

This is probably why Shimano and Campy hasn’t forgone the wires yet...
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20140102237A1/en

It's funny if you look at the patent images. One shows a Campy Ergo lever!

Aside from that, Shimano and Campy both have patents for semi and fully wireless shifting. A big issue is the battery drain. That's why FSA went with semi wireless with the main battery driving the derailleurs. That's what takes a ton of the load.

[m_sasso]

I want to know how much farther and faster this is going to allow me to go?
More than content with what they are providing now, it's like thinking more grease is going to allow me go faster, once you get past reducing the friction more is just dead weight.

[robertbb]

Maybe Shimano will design cranks that don't snap.








I'll see myself out.

[oldpotatoe]

Anyone have any sense on timing for the new Di2 announcement? Sounds like some details (partially wireless, not the current freehub) are starting to trickle out...

I predict(been wrong before) that 12s Di2 will have ders hard wired to a battery and ONE battery in RH shifter, which will be wireless and the front der will be 'smart' and shift by itself depending on which cog is selected in rear, ala XTR.
Campag 13s, 1by, will be same..with one battery internal and one battery for RH lever.

[sg8357]

I predict(been wrong before) that 12s Di2 will have ders hard wired to a battery and ONE battery in RH shifter,[snip]

I like Old Tater Group concept, I'd add cog count programming,
I'd like to use 9 of 10 speed on some older bikes.
Electronic 5s with auto half stepping for for IBOB crowd. :)

[Matt92037]

That is how I run my current Dura Ace. I have really grown to like Syncroshift. The left shifter I have setup to switch screens on my Garmin.


I predict(been wrong before) that 12s Di2 will have ders hard wired to a battery and ONE battery in RH shifter, which will be wireless and the front der will be 'smart' and shift by itself depending on which cog is selected in rear, ala XTR.
Campag 13s, 1by, will be same..with one battery internal and one battery for RH lever.

[shoota]

Sram may be innovative, but their QC has been rather subpar. To date I have had:
-shifter paddle on one 2013 Red 10 speed RHS shifter snap;
-the cam and bushing on the opposing LHS shifter deteriorating to the point that it could snap;
-one Red derailleur snap at the knuckle;
-one Sram quick release loosening and opening on a ride, causing a crash.

The only well-made Sram part I had was a first gen 10 speed Red RHS shifter; eventually sold it to a guy whose Sram shifter snapped...

I was an evangelist for Sram stuff for so long, but those are quite inexcusable.

Shimano may be heavier, but it's functional, sturdy, and reliable.

And here I sit having had none of those Sram problems, and plenty of Shimano problems. Specifically the shifter cable snapping problem and multiple crank failures...

[saab2000]

I want to know how much farther and faster this is going to allow me to go?
More than content with what they are providing now, it's like thinking more grease is going to allow me go faster, once you get past reducing the friction more is just dead weight.

It won’t make you faster or ride further. But I went from 8-speed to 10-speed to 11-speed and each time not only did I get more useful gears and better gear spacing, the functionality improved.

When the old stuff wears out there’s no real reason not to move forward. My 11-speed 105 blows my old Campagnolo Record 8-speed away in every possible way except aesthetics.

[pjbaz]

Curmudgeon response: IF they dump rim brake on 12 speed groups 11 speed will basically be where my new purchases end; I'll stock up like a fool and be content until I die, probably.

Sick of spending a LOT of money for new "standards" to be released, repeatedly ...

Carry on, but stay OFF my lawn :no:

[jemdet]

Curmudgeon response: IF they dump rim brake on 12 speed groups 11 speed will basically be where my new purchases end; I'll stock up like a fool and be content until I die, probably.

Sick of spending a LOT of money for new "standards" to be released, repeatedly ...

Carry on, but stay OFF my lawn :no:

The biggest pro cycling team in the world exclusively uses shimano rim brake groups (and Italian bottom brackets.) Hard to see an entirely non-rim brake group while that’s the case.

Plus, how much does it take to iterate on their rim brakes at this point? They’ve had it figured out for generations.

[batman1425]

The biggest pro cycling team in the world exclusively uses shimano rim brake groups (and Italian bottom brackets.) Hard to see an entirely non-rim brake group while that’s the case.

Plus, how much does it take to iterate on their rim brakes at this point? They’ve had it figured out for generations.

What team is that?

[jemdet]

What team is that?

Name escapes me. Big into margarine pains or motorized trains, something like that.

[justaute]

Name escapes me. Big into margarine pains or motorized trains, something like that.

Are you sure it's not butter pains?

[gibbo]

Perhaps I am not as enthusiastic as I used to be when it comes to new groups. My 11sp mech rim ultegra works so good, provides more than enough gearing, is easy to work on. If the new 12 sp (assuming 12 sp) is really pretty, and offered some “actual” improvements I might be tempted, but if all my old wheels need to be replaced I think I will happily just sit where I am. Honestly there is not much room for improvements in the current groups from all 3, but we will happily wait and see......

[nickl]

What team is that?

The team that won last year’s TdF. They and a at least a couple of other top level pro are still using rim brakes this year.

[jemdet]

Are you sure it's not butter pains?

Maybe during the off-season

[TheseGoTo11]

That is how I run my current Dura Ace. I have really grown to like Syncroshift. The left shifter I have setup to switch screens on my Garmin.

Man, I’m way behind the times.

[TheseGoTo11]

Curmudgeon response: IF they dump rim brake on 12 speed groups 11 speed will basically be where my new purchases end; I'll stock up like a fool and be content until I die, probably.

Sick of spending a LOT of money for new "standards" to be released, repeatedly ...

Carry on, but stay OFF my lawn :no:

I like your thinking. I’m still mostly on 10!

[oldpotatoe]

What team is that?

Ineos......:)

BTW-I'm on '12s' on my Moots..2 in the front, 6 in the rear=12:)

BTW-gotta mention 12s and rear hubs..shimano(probably) will be a unique 12s only, FHB..doh!

[TheseGoTo11]

BTW-I'm on '12s' on my Moots..2 in the front, 6 in the rear=12:)

Haha, nice! :beer:

[JohnnyBoston]

If the cassettes start with a 10T cog, they’re probably MicroSpline as I don’t think a 10T will fit on the present freehub body. Why we need a 10T is a different question.

I have no interest in a 10t cog. I hope Shimano doesn't make it just to match SRAM.

I don't need a scientific friction test to feel the drive train losses of tiny gears like that.

[Velocipede]

I have no interest in a 10t cog. I hope Shimano doesn't make it just to match SRAM.

I don't need a scientific friction test to feel the drive train losses of tiny gears like that.

Some are making 9th cogs.

[saab2000]

Some are making 9th cogs.

And they’re kind of stupid. Not trying to be a retrogrouch but 10-tooth cogs don’t even make sense for pros, except with small chain rings.

If they have them, I still hope to see an 11-tooth option.

These smaller components seem to be made to shave a few grams for marketing purposes.

[Mark McM]

Some are making 9th cogs.

That's mostly found in bikes with very small wheels (such as folding bikes) where the alternative is very large chainrings. Small wheels open up a lot of possibilities for frame design but can result in a lot compromises in the drivetrain.

[Velocipede]

That's mostly found in bikes with very small wheels (such as folding bikes) where the alternative is very large chainrings. Small wheels open up a lot of possibilities for frame design but can result in a lot compromises in the drivetrain.

I've seen 9th cassettes for big bikes too. I know of a couple groups in the works with a 9 as the main for their cassettes.

[robertbb]

I've seen 9th cassettes for big bikes too. I know of a couple groups in the works with a 9 as the main for their cassettes.

Oh boy I hope this doesn't include the new Campy group(s). I fear it does.

[Velocipede]

Oh boy I hope this doesn't include the new Campy group(s). I fear it does.

No comment. But I can say the range on upcoming cassettes is incredible. In my opinion it's a game changer and is a first for all the brands. I have a bunch of new things on the way from everyone- Shimano, Campy, SRAM. Campy has things dropping every month for the next 3 months. Shimano has stuff dropping end of August to mid-September. SRAM hasn't given me the dates. But everyone was rearranging them to coincide with Sea Otter and NAHBS. But since those aren't happening now things could change. I do know the Campy stuff isn't supposed to though.

[thirdgenbird]

Range means gaps which may be alright if that chainring deal is true.



Now I need to know about bottom bracket and brake options.

[Velocipede]

Range means gaps which may be alright if that chainring deal is true.



Now I need to know about bottom bracket and brake options.

The bottom bracket options from one company, I posted before. They are offering pretty much everything including T47.

Brakes? is there something other than disc and rim brakes being used most?

[Pubus]

I have no interest in a 10t cog. I hope Shimano doesn't make it just to match SRAM.



I don't need a scientific friction test to feel the drive train losses of tiny gears like that.I wouldn't mind a 10t if I was running a 1x 44T chainring

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[thirdgenbird]

The bottom bracket options from one company, I posted before. They are offering pretty much everything including T47.

Brakes? is there something other than disc and rim brakes being used most?

73mm threaded

Post mount disc caliper

[Coffee Rider]

No comment. But I can say the range on upcoming cassettes is incredible. In my opinion it's a game changer and is a first for all the brands. I have a bunch of new things on the way from everyone- Shimano, Campy, SRAM. Campy has things dropping every month for the next 3 months. Shimano has stuff dropping end of August to mid-September. SRAM hasn't given me the dates. But everyone was rearranging them to coincide with Sea Otter and NAHBS. But since those aren't happening now things could change. I do know the Campy stuff isn't supposed to though.


Will there be anything new on SR EPS DB? Asking for a friend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ColonelJLloyd]

73mm threaded

Post mount disc caliper

XT or SLX?

[thirdgenbird]

XT or SLX?

Neither.

[Velocipede]

Will there be anything new on SR EPS DB? Asking for a friend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Like what specifically?

[Coffee Rider]

Like what specifically?


Like an extra gear or something major.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Velocipede]

Like an extra gear or something major.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah! Gotcha. No, nothing major or special for Super Record. Well, there is a slight change on something that affects the entire Campy line up, SR on down.

[thirdgenbird]

Well now I’m really curious. The one I heard speculation on wouldn’t impact centaur.

[DavidC]

Has anyone heard any updates/rumors about Shimano road 12-speed in the last month? Are people thinking it'll still happen this summer, maybe coinciding with the Tour? I'd think they can only postpone for so long, because surely the new 2021 bike builds from all the major manufacturers are already contracted to have the new parts.

[JohnnyBoston]

When I saw the new SL7 Tarmac with DA9100, I resigned myself to not get new DA this year.

But I don't really have any idea what I'm talking about.

[KonaSS]

Last rumors I read on Weightweenies said that it would not be released this year.

[PTinz]

i'm curious to see if they will adopt some sub compact chainring options for the actual road groups.

maybe a 48/32 or even 46/30 at ultegra level would be well received and liked, i'm certain.

I’m digging the 48/32 on the mechanical GRX so far, coupled w/ an 11-34 cassette.