Torx vs. Allen

[cpg]

I recently received an '07 Record kit. I was admiring the stuff. It's really nice. While fondling the skeleton brakes I noticed the brake pads and the brakes themselves are tightened via a torx nut instead of an allen. At the risk of being dubbed a Too Tall luddite, ***? I've got nothing against torx. I never complain about a reason to own another tool. With that said, who can complain about the elegant simplicity of having all allen heads on the fasteners? What "advantage" is there to switching? I don't see how it could save any weight. What am I missing? Did I mention that the stuff is really nice?

Curt

[Too Tall]

Well, Curt the fastener's name begins with a "T" and that is the first letter in Tuna as in Tuna Fish Sandwhich.

We're starting a group.

Another choice would be to go the paranoid schiz route and claim conspiracy with Pedro's / Park et al to freshen up the light weight tools folks carry in their prissy little seat packs. Bawoooooooooooooooo.

[davyt]

The advantage is primarily cost and ease of assembly: tools last longer and since they're less prone to camout (when the tool slips out of the fastener recess), you don't damage fasteners as easily.

The disadvantage (to us) is since they're less prone to camout it's a lot easier to over-torque the fastener.

These fasteners were really designed for a production (read assembly line with torque limiting tools) setting.
--
Davy

[J.Greene]

What am I missing?
Curt

Nothing.

JG

[saab2000]

tools folks carry in their prissy little seat packs. Bawoooooooooooooooo.

YES!!!!! :banana:

[Too Tall]

Torx fittings strip out really fast when you jam a 5mm hex key in there and go at it. (trying not to smirk....)

Hey, forgive me. Actually, my 6 yr. old CK hubs have a totally unnecessary Torx fitting on the adjusting collar.

Feel free.

[saab2000]

Did they teach you how to use tools at Macalaster? Shop Class at the liberal liberal liberal liberal arts colleges? :D

[Matt Barkley]

The Torx bolts on the Record Skeletons are Ti and Light Alu - this prevents one (consumer or mechanic) from monkeying them as easily as one would with hex. :beer: - matt

[Archibald]

Torx me baby one more time!

http://www.dybbuk.com/mgp/people/andybell2.jpg

[theprep]

The Torx conspiracy includes the Far East as well. My new Shimano XTR 970 cranks have torx chain ring bolts.

What the heck was wrong with the old 5 mm Allens?

[Bill Bove]

I reused most of the ti bolts when I installed my new Record bits, except for the brake pad holders, they're a smaller diameter.

[cpg]

http://www.dybbuk.com/mgp/people/andybell2.jpg


You've always looked good with a boa!

Curt

[flydhest]

hold on, aren't allen bolts better because they'd have less material in the head, hence less weight.

Maybe the '08 version of Record will go back to allen bolts so they can eliminate some grams (like, 1.5 grams).

[znfdl]

What the heck was wrong with the old 5 mm Allens?

New = Better ;)

[cpg]

hold on, aren't allen bolts better because they'd have less material in the head, hence less weight.

Maybe the '08 version of Record will go back to allen bolts so they can eliminate some grams (like, 1.5 grams).


I think you're onto something there. Campy missed the opportunity to create their own torx dimension so you could only make adjustments with their tools. Of course, the tool would end up looking like a frickin' corkscrew so maybe that's not such a great idea.


Curt

[TimD]

... they s**k. Or at least I think so. I've never had a good experience with them, starting with the cam valley cover on the inline-five in my old Volvo 850 wagon.

I used to think the theory was that the force applied by the tool to the fastener is applied at a larger angle (as compared to a hex head or Allen head design), and possibly also that the contact area is greater.
http://www.daralturbine.com/daralturbine/fasteners.asp seems to confirm these ideas, but I don't know why anyone thinks it matters in a 4mm fastener tightened to a small number of inch-pounds.

Unfortunately, there's another theory:

http://www.textronfasteningsystems.com/licensing/faq.html

Once again, it's all about the Benjamins! Ever see a Torx fastener in your local hardware store? I'll have to check next time I'm there.

[Too Tall]

I think you're onto something there. Campy missed the opportunity to create their own torx dimension so you could only make adjustments with their tools. Of course, the tool would end up looking like a frickin' corkscrew so maybe that's not such a great idea.


Curt


THAT'S HOT

[chrisroph]

anybody carry torx tools in their spare tire bag?

[stevep]

some of the mini tools have had a torx driver for a few years...for disc use.
some fsa chainring bolts are torx. cursed when i came across that and had no tool...." stupid f'ing pos..." something like that.
all in all allen bolts are pretty easy to use... ease of use worth something to me.

[manet]

anybody carry torx tools in their spare tire bag?

crank bros., in a manpurse, in my jersey pocket.
manpurse available at home centers a/o backpacking stores.

[Grant McLean]

My understanding is that there is greater surface area contact with torx
than with an allen key. Using soft aluminum bolts, the torx should be less
likely to damage the surface. The 2nd generation Record carbon cranks got
the first campy torx fitting.

For steel and titanium bolts, allen keys obviously hold up to wear and tear well enough.

g

[Serotta PETE]

I think you're onto something there. Campy missed the opportunity to create their own torx dimension so you could only make adjustments with their tools. Of course, the tool would end up looking like a frickin' corkscrew so maybe that's not such a great idea.
Curt


Did someone mention Corkscrew????? Campy makes a great one and I did notice a torx edge where it goes into the cork....or did that come with the red zin :D :no:

[Too Tall]

some of the mini tools have had a torx driver for a few years...for disc use.
some fsa chainring bolts are torx. cursed when i came across that and had no tool...." stupid f'ing pos..." something like that.
all in all allen bolts are pretty easy to use... ease of use worth something to me.

Kiss me now before this moment is gone forever :cool:

[Too Tall]

My understanding is that there is greater surface area contact with torx
than with an allen key. Using soft aluminum bolts, the torx should be less
likely to damage the surface. The 2nd generation Record carbon cranks got
the first campy torx fitting.

For steel and titanium bolts, allen keys obviously hold up to wear and tear well enough.

g

Yeah but.....why the heck is a cheesey alum. bolt justify this? I literally throw those chainring bolts out because it is a a matter of when not if.

[chrisroph]

crank bros., in a manpurse, in my jersey pocket.
manpurse available at home centers a/o backpacking stores.

I just carry some allen keys, spoke wrenches, pieces of worn out piste tires for boots, chain links, cash, tire irons, spare tubes, tie wraps, a peanut butter wrench in fixie season, but no stinkin' multi tools.

[Too Tall]

....and a long line of sissy bag totin' riders begging you to fix their bike in the road. Been there ;)

[saab2000]

....and a long line of sissy bag totin' riders begging you to fix their bike in the road. Been there ;)

All ya need is a spare tubular and a pump, right TT???

[chrisroph]

....and a long line of sissy bag totin' riders begging you to fix their bike in the road. Been there ;)


Fer sure, most guys can't meet the club's mandatory 3 minute clincher repair rule do I do a lot if flat fixes for guys on the road.

Saab, I carry an old silca frame pump with steel campy head, forgot to mention that. Campy doesn't make ti ones do they?

[Grant McLean]

Yeah but.....why the heck is a cheesey alum. bolt justify this? I literally throw those chainring bolts out because it is a a matter of when not if.

Optimized performance i guess. Alu is lighter than Ti.

Record is race junk. The real man's grouppo is now Chorus,
just like Nouvo Record was back in the day. Super Duper Record
is for poseurs...

:)

g

[Too Tall]

You da man Grant. Well said.
Christophe - Next time we ride with BBdave you are my wing man...uh...whatever. Anywho, he gets alot of flats...than gets all red in the face, it's really fun to watch.