OT: The Future of Gyms (etc...)

[XXtwindad]

I'm a personal trainer. Perhaps the thread should more accurately be called "the future of personal training," but I'll leave it at that.

I've been struggling with the new "remote" paradigm, primarily because … it seems to be working. Granted, I've slashed rates for clients, mostly by pairing them up in smaller "group" sessions. But for a confirmed Luddite, who would communicate with carrier pigeons if he could, this has been a pretty seamless transition. My question is more long-term, though.

The gym I train it charges me $31 for a single session and $46 for two people. That's a lot of scratch. The majority of the trainers I work with charge (on average) $120 an hour for a single client. (These are standard rates for the Bay Area) My rates are significantly lower, but I have many more long-term clients than most of the other trainers.

The bottom line: I've been crunching the numbers, and taking other factors into account (the huge benefit to the environment, reduced stress level from not commuting into SF) and, to my way of thing, the new age of "telehealth" seems to be dawning. A few clients are already on board with telehealth long-term. I will be having more discussions in the next weeks or so. The issue is with any potential new clients.

A close friend of mine (non client) when asked about the subject, said he viewed gyms as "temples of fitness" and that it would be almost impossible to feel that he would be getting a good workout at home. He also said that I'd be competing with trainers from India to Iowa remotely. The first question is easily (for me) addressed because the majority of my exercises are body weight, so I don't use much of the equipment at the gym. The second part of his answer is a little tougher to answer, and I hadn't contemplated that.

But my thinking is that, all finances being equal and healthy, if I charged two people $65 and hour to train remotely, versus $130 for the same two people at a gym, what would people chose? And why?

I understand fears of the virus itself may influence more people toward remote training, but the virus is not my chief concern here. Many other industries such as sporting events, concerts, restaurants, and movie theaters will have to reexamine their business model in light of the Pandemic.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thx.

[Blue Jays]

What if you arranged a well-equipped basement (with separate entrance) and had clients come to you for private or semi-private sessions?

This would ensure you could also comprehensively sanitize all the surfaces between clients if you allow a 20-buffer around each workout.
Your clients might appreciate that "cleanliness assured" experience over a traditional gym environment.

[AngryScientist]

one of the biggest reasons people go to the gym, especially in big cities like NYC, SF, etc - is space.

If i had a bigger house, where i could set-up a nice home gym space to be by myself and work out, i would quit my gym.

the whole idea of me going to the gym is a dedicated workout space away from my other responsibilities and distractions.

i suspect most people wealthy enough to live in the bay area and afford a personal trainer may also be wealthy enough to have a good home workout space (no judgement, just a thought).

Manhattan apartment dwellers, generally speaking, dont want to put a yoga mat down in their living room and sweat all over the place, then pull them up for a dinner party.

[XXtwindad]

What if you arranged a well-equipped basement (with separate entrance) and had the clients come to you for private or semi-private sessions?

This would ensure you could also comprehensively sanitize all the surfaces between clients if you allow a 20-buffer around each workout.
Your clients might appreciate that "cleanliness assured" experience over a traditional gym environment.

Well, the problem with that is geography. Most of my clients live (or work) in San Francisco. I live in Oakland.

[XXtwindad]

one of the biggest reasons people go to the gym, especially in big cities like NYC, SF, etc - is space.

If i had a bigger house, where i could set-up a nice home gym space to be by myself and work out, i would quit my gym.

the whole idea of me going to the gym is a dedicated workout space away from my other responsibilities and distractions.

i suspect most people wealthy enough to live in the bay area and afford a personal trainer may also be wealthy enough to have a good home workout space (no judgement, just a thought).

Manhattan apartment dwellers, generally speaking, dont want to put a yoga mat down in their living room and sweat all over the place, then pull them up for a dinner party.

Yes, I see. These are two very distinct issues. The first one is easily solved because you don't need a lot of space to get a great workout on. Your living room or a portion of your bedroom will suffice. The second one is a much larger hurdle to clear. That will be tough if a majority of people feel that's more important that potentially saving 40-50% of the costs for training.

[Blue Jays]

@AngryScientist...you are absolutely 100% correct. I concur.
For example, I do my Zwift in a nice, dedicated, bicycle room.
Space, space allocation, and livability is truly the final arbiter.

Were my living arrangements different, there is NO WAY my living room or dining room would be awash in sweat.
If my situation was different I would skip Zwift and just go running in the woods or whatever.

[Blue Jays]

@xxTwindad...could you pack a "mobile gym" in a van and travel to them and maybe even meet in a park or other open public area?

[alfordjo]

Interesting this topic came up today as my wife and I were having a discussion about working out this morning.

We have plenty of space for a dedicated work out area and have a few pieces of equipment to use. (dumbbells, strap, barbel with a few weights, etc.)

Before the lockdown, my wife was at the gym 7 days a week and I was there 4-5 days a week. Since the lockdown, I have been maintaining my 4-5 days a week workouts while she has backed off to 4-5 days a week.

This morning she said she is struggling getting motivated working out at home versus going to the gym. Me...I kind of like it better working out at home.

Maybe since your clients are in SF, instead of doing virtual workout sessions, you can travel to them and hold sessions at their homes? Since most of your work is using body weight, this should not be a problem.

I guess you could do both methods, virtual and house calls for people who like the in-person touch?

[XXtwindad]

Interesting this topic came up today as my wife and I were having a discussion about working out this morning.

We have plenty of space for a dedicated work out area and have a few pieces of equipment to use. (dumbbells, strap, barbel with a few weights, etc.)

Before the lockdown, my wife was at the gym 7 days a week and I was there 4-5 days a week. Since the lockdown, I have been maintaining my 4-5 days a week workouts while she has backed off to 4-5 days a week.

This morning she said she is struggling getting motivated working out at home versus going to the gym. Me...I kind of like it better working out at home.

Maybe since your clients are in SF, instead of doing virtual workout sessions, you can travel to them and hold sessions at their homes? Since most of your work is using body weight, this should not be a problem.

I guess you could do both methods, virtual and house calls for people who like the in-person touch?

In response to you and Blue Jays: one of the most (though not the only) benefit to "telehealth" is economic - both for myself and my clients. The mobile PT option negates that advantage, because you have to charge for time. Let's say I have a 5PM client. If I have hour sessions, I can't have a 4PM client or a 6PM client. So, I have to bill those hours accordingly at a higher rate. Plus driving in SF is a real stress-inducing mess, and as part of my "post-Covid" resolutions, I want to be a car-free as possible. I'm walking to my partners house (7 miles round trip with a 750 feet elev gain) instead of driving, for example. Except when it's raining.

[Mr. Pink]

Wow. 120 an hour? Do these people have any retirement savings? Probably drive up in a 400 dollar a month car lease. Why don't they just do it once, write it down, and repeat daily or every other day on their own?

I agree with Angryscientist, I go to the gym for space and to be able to focus better. At home I'm more easily distracted. Plus, I have no room for any sort of aerobic machines. Fortunately, I dont sweat like some. Good lord, I've seen puddles left around machines. Yuk.

Pretty cool how I've been able to replicate 90% of my gym workout at home with a purchase of one pair of 20 pound dumbbells and a few sets of ankle weights at home. Sure wish I could score a 30 pound and 15 pound pair, but weights are as hard to find as toilet paper these days. Maybe I won't need a gym in the future.

[XXtwindad]

Wow. 120 an hour? Do these people have any retirement savings? Probably drive up in a 400 dollar a month car lease. Why don't they just do it once, write it down, and repeat daily or every other day on their own?

I agree with Angryscientist, I go to the gym for space and to be able to focus better. At home I'm more easily distracted. Plus, I have no room for any sort of aerobic machines. Fortunately, I dont sweat like some. Good lord, I've seen puddles left around machines. Yuk.

Pretty cool how I've been able to replicate 90% of my gym workout at home with a purchase of one pair of 20 pound dumbbells and a few sets of ankle weights at home. Sure wish I could score a 30 pound and 15 pound pair, but weights are as hard to find as toilet paper these days. Maybe I won't need a gym in the future.

It’s the Bay Area. Trust me. Which means I have to charge a certain amount - even remotely - to continue living here. To my friend’s point, there are trainers in Iowa who could undercut me. But that also opens up (though I probably won’t do it because I have a family and the Bay Area is a cycling paradise) the option of moving to beautiful Asheville, NC.

Edit: I have two clients who work for AirBnB. Who knows how things shake out. But they are going to try to continue working remotely for the SF based company while they relocate to Oregon. So these types of scenarios are going to be happening more frequently...

[mistermo]

Is the coronavirus present in sweat? I'm not sure that it is. Seriously asking here. Don't respond if you're just guessing. I'm looking for facts. I don't think it's like Hep B or HIV, where it's present in all bodily fluids.

[zap]

We have a dedicated "gym" in our house. Computrainer, Concept 2 rower, weight rack, bands and countless free weights.

But we still go to the Y.....until C19. I don't have all the equipment needed (will keep an eye out for some) and this winter I started.....Spin. Most of the time I get on the spin bike right after a heavy leg workout. Twice a week I started taking Spin classes and that worked out pretty well. I warm up, do the interval work and warm down.....hour plus and I work really hard. Probably harder than what I do at home except when I do benchmark testing on the Computrainer.

Could I hire a trainer to work with me at home. Sure. Could I find one that knows a lot about cycling. One comes to mind. Am I willing to pay someone $75-$125/hour regularly. No, I find no value in that.

For me going to the gym is about maximizing my workout (spin classes).....and meeting friends.

[XXtwindad]

Is the coronavirus present in sweat? I'm not sure that it is. Seriously asking here. Don't respond if you're just guessing. I'm looking for facts. I don't think it's like Hep B or HIV, where it's present in all bodily fluids.

That’s a very legitimate question, and one I’ve been attuned to. All evidence seems to indicate you CAN’T: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/08/health/coronavirus-gyms-safety.amp.html

However, as the article indicates there are many other vehicles for transmission possible. Ultimately, as far as the gym setting goes, you are dealing with people’s perceptions as much as the reality. But love (most of the times) don’t pay the rent. Neither does fear.

[avalonracing]

I quit the gym last month. I don't plan to go back until LONG after we get the all-clear.

[d_douglas]

I am not a gym person (and it shows), but I was going for a few months before the COVID-19 thing. Every time I was in there, I kinda shuddered at the film of sweat and germs all over everything (and I am not a germaphobe). It just kinda grosses me out.

This C19 time reinforces that I need to find a better way to do this. I am in the camp that I cant afford (aka dont prioritize) personal trainers --> sorry XXtwindad :(

[Mike V]

My client is a major gym in Northern California. As long as they are closed I'm out of work. I'm hoping there will be a way for gyms to open back up. There is some thinking of how they can with social distancing and keeping everyone safe. I have been working with my client on how to use the portion of the gym I work on to be safe for their customers.

[zap]

Every time I was in there, I kinda shuddered at the film of sweat and germs all over everything (and I am not a germaphobe). It just kinda grosses me out.

Folks at the two Y's I go to regularly are pretty good at wiping down equipment after use. Plenty of Purell dispensers around.

[jb_11]

I think there are trends in the responses you're seeing here that hold true in the general population as well. Some folks want a gym environment to get in the right mindset to workout (or don't have sufficient space), some prefer their own homes. You want to cater your business to the latter. What does your current client base want? Are there other potential clients you can reach with a revised business model?

I think Zwift/Peloton/etc. are showing how the home fitness model is being re-envisioned, and the current situation is driving more people to it. I think it's likely that will have some holdover effect.

As far as warding off outsourcing; maybe setup regular in-person checkpoints? Do an in-person assessment, and quarterly in-person check ins to discuss goals, progress, get eyes on form, technique, etc. Then tailor the remainder of your sessions for online meetups. I've never had a personal trainer, but I think I'd prefer that personal approach if I did. Just a thought.

Good luck.

[Blue Jays]

Those are also good "hybrid approach" ideas, @jb_11.

[Mr. Pink]

I am not a gym person (and it shows), but I was going for a few months before the COVID-19 thing. Every time I was in there, I kinda shuddered at the film of sweat and germs all over everything (and I am not a germaphobe). It just kinda grosses me out.

This C19 time reinforces that I need to find a better way to do this. I am in the camp that I cant afford (aka dont prioritize) personal trainers --> sorry XXtwindad :(

I've watched people carefully wipe down surfaces in gyms for years before this, which is fine, I guess, but, my thoughts are always, do you do this everywhere else you go in life? Why the gym? Maybe around the aerobic machines, I get that, but, elsewhere? Do you fly in planes? Doubt that seat area has been sanitized, and somebody was sitting there for hours maybe that morning. Ride a train? Bus? Use seating in a restaraunt? How about that dark movie theater? Ewww. And on. Of course, now, everybody is flipped out, for good reason, but, how could you live like that if you considered the dangers before this?

[Geemalar]

How about that dark movie theater? Ewww

Main reason I refuse to go to a theater to see a movie.......and when my wife convinces me to go, i can’t get home fast enough to take a shower and throw my clothes in the wash. Same with air travel..........knowing that xxx number of people have sat in the seat before me, who knows what’s made it’s way onto your personal space.

Just cancelled my gym membership the other day......but that was an easy decision because the gym was neglected and showing its age. I can get by with the basement weights, gym at work, and chores around the outside of the house. Lifting 75 pound barrels of leaves and carrying them 500 feet into the woods leaves me way more exhausted than any leg day at the gym.

[AngryScientist]

i think gym's are really going to struggle as part of the new normal, at least for a while.

i know that every gym is going to be rushing to open back up the moment they are allowed to so they can justify their membership fees on which they depend to survive, but i just dont see people rushing back to the gym after this, especially in corona hot spots like NYC and NJ.

i know i personally plan to cancel my gym membership and re-evaluate in the fall/winter.

[Ralph]

RE the OP post....little off track here....but I'm not looking at this from the trainers point of view.

I'm a member of a local Planet Fitness. The mgt made a huge effort to keep it clean before it shut. Don't know what they could have done better. Paper towels and cleaning solution everywhere, and "please wipe down after use" signs everywhere. The crew constantly cleaning and wiping all surfaces. Even the wash and shower areas keep clean as possible. It's a really nice well run facility

And yet....I don't know that I'm going back. And my health insurance pays my membership.

[d_douglas]

I've watched people carefully wipe down surfaces in gyms for years before this, which is fine, I guess, but, my thoughts are always, do you do this everywhere else you go in life? Why the gym? Maybe around the aerobic machines, I get that, but, elsewhere? Do you fly in planes? Doubt that seat area has been sanitized, and somebody was sitting there for hours maybe that morning. Ride a train? Bus? Use seating in a restaraunt? How about that dark movie theater? Ewww. And on. Of course, now, everybody is flipped out, for good reason, but, how could you live like that if you considered the dangers before this?

Yes, and to be clear, the gym I went to was a nice and clean Community Centre that was very well looked after by staff and patrons. It was more the fact that gyms are inherently dirty:sweaty:germy - there is just no way around it.

[colker]

It will go back to normal eventually when there is a vaccine or easy treatment for COVID. Those who like it will like it again. I feel claustrophobic in a gym and i don´t like mirrors. I tried once and never went back but most of the people count on it and love it.
Otoh you could develop a do it at home program w/ apps and weights you sell through the email and become RICH! I am all for it.

[XXtwindad]

Yes, and to be clear, the gym I went to was a nice and clean Community Centre that was very well looked after by staff and patrons. It was more the fact that gyms are inherently dirty:sweaty:germy - there is just no way around it.

I did an informal poll of my clients yesterday. And it turns out...you're right. Almost to a man (and the vast majority of my clients are men) my clients said they will not be going back to a gym until there's a vaccine.

So, that business model is gone. And for me, it's probably gone for good. I'll really miss the camaraderie, the "bro hugs," tossing a football, flipping tires, and the eye candy. I'll miss the sarcastic barbs of the gym manager/ballerina who became a close friend. We had timed contests where we had to come up with the most adjectives beginning with a certain letter in two minutes. She kicked my ass very time. I'll miss the "Barber Shop with Sweat" aspect of my job - rapping about love, life, sports, politics, culture, etc. Man, I 'll really miss all that.

So, so long to the "office." It might be a better move for me (at least financially and environmentally) in the long run. But it's not just my office, it's yours, too. The core constituency of my clientele is not too much different than the Paceline. Maybe the Paceline skews a little older. But how many of you - based on the responses given here - are really going to feel comfortable going back to the office without a vaccine?

Are you sure?

[2LeftCleats]

The pandemic will cause people to reevaluate almost every sector of their lives, including workouts. Sounds like you have self-selected a clientele that isn’t interested in building bulk; hence they really don’t need space for weight machines. I have a free membership (from health insurer) to a gym that’s fairly close. I used it a little last year when trying to build back muscle following joint replacements but I’m quite content to spend an hour in the AM with my wife stretching and doing body weight exercises. When we retired we downsized, but the mat rolls up, then gets tucked away. My bike is set up for Zwift in the small office and is easily put aside when I must work at the desk. So small spaces work. It would be a long time before I’d go back to a gym, even if my workout would be enhanced by doing so. Like most other businesses, gyms will need to address a likely decline in attendance by getting creative. Maybe I missed something in your post, but I’m surprised your gym isn’t partnering with personal trainers to create a virtual business. If you have a loyal base and word of mouth referrals, you wouldn’t need them. Another approach might be to partner with physical therapists and other healthcare professionals.

[Irishgirl]

I miss my gym...I miss the peeps...I miss the routine of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XXtwindad]

The pandemic will cause people to reevaluate almost every sector of their lives, including workouts. Sounds like you have self-selected a clientele that isn’t interested in building bulk; hence they really don’t need space for weight machines. I have a free membership (from health insurer) to a gym that’s fairly close. I used it a little last year when trying to build back muscle following joint replacements but I’m quite content to spend an hour in the AM with my wife stretching and doing body weight exercises. When we retired we downsized, but the mat rolls up, then gets tucked away. My bike is set up for Zwift in the small office and is easily put aside when I must work at the desk. So small spaces work. It would be a long time before I’d go back to a gym, even if my workout would be enhanced by doing so. Like most other businesses, gyms will need to address a likely decline in attendance by getting creative. Maybe I missed something in your post, but I’m surprised your gym isn’t partnering with personal trainers to create a virtual business. If you have a loyal base and word of mouth referrals, you wouldn’t need them. Another approach might be to partner with physical therapists and other healthcare professionals.

This is absolutely true. It made the transition for me much more seamless. But your second comment is also 100% true, and I don't know what that looks like. Much easier for me, as a solo proprietor to pivot than an entire industry.

[benb]

I would want to be real careful if I was a trainer I guess.

I've always been a self-motivated/self-educated gym rat so haven't really ever paid for a personal trainer. I have had a few sessions over the years I guess when they were trying to get clients but never got enough out of it to pay the prices.

I work for a tech company.. lots of people who make plenty of money to pay for it. But I'd be REAL careful with planning. A lot of "tech" companies are not really tech companies especially in Silicon Valley. They are more consumer businesses that have a tech angle.

So far it looks like the consumer-y tech businesses are much more likely to run into trouble more quickly.

The company I work for is in EDA (Chip Design) and Security. We are in a very different place in the industry than the consumer companies. We are many degrees insulated from downturns in consumer spending. Chip Vendors have to think years out.. they are incredibly dependent on our products. Same thing with security.. our security customers will have to be hurting very badly to stop paying for computer security since it can cost them big time to stop.

Around here the tech companies that have already had to do layoffs are all consumer facing... online retail, anything related to tourism, hospitality, restaurants, etc..

If your clients are in consumer-facing tech businesses they are way more at risk of losing their jobs and/or needing to cancel personal training. Personal training is very much a luxury item IMO and it would be quick to go anytime finances change. Because of the allure of easy money I think there are plenty of employees in the industry who aren't that careful with money.

Before all this started I had 3 options:
- Home equipment - already had a decent setup. Treadmill, bike on trainer, bench, squat rack, 300lbs of plates + olympic bar, dumbells to 30lb, etc.. big weakness is lack of pulldown/pullup/dip capabilities.

- Free corporate gym at work, very well equipped, personal trainer, spin studio, boot camp classes, yoga, all included free. They'll be fine.

- Rock climbing membership. I cancelled in February cause I have had climber's elbow. It's taken many months to figure out how to PT it away but I'm finally getting there and I am really itching to climb. I think I want to do that more than cycling right now, maybe just cause I can cycle right now. I got a gift certificate to help them along, they've been closed more than a month.

I've been using my home equipment much more than usual. Home equipment was my last option generally cause it's in my basement, not as well equipped, etc.. now I am using it a lot more cause it's available. I am trying to rectify the lack of ability to do pushups.. but equipment is not that easy to order now. Rogue had the best option for me to set something up and they're making PPE right now and have long shipping delays.

[RFC]

I miss the gym. The vibe and the energy and the flirting with the MILFs. Being that I work out of my home office, I need the outlet and change of scenery.

The gym is like a small town we visit for a few hours each week. We know each other's first names and chat. We know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

With all that, it is going to feel kind of creepy going back and the environment will have to be different for some months ahead.

So, here I am at home. I dragged a mismatched bunch of old lifting equipment out of my garage and set up on my back patio and I go for sunset rides.

Today, I did four hours of fighting back the jungle that is my backyard. Climbing, cutting, chopping, digging and hauling. It actually makes for a decent workout.

Someone once told me "If you do your own yard work, you will live forever." I think there may be something to that.

[CDM]

I didnt read this. We dont need people to train us for these amounts of money. Period. I will do it for free in a park.

[XXtwindad]

I miss the gym. The vibe and the energy and the flirting with the MILFs. Being that I work out of my home office, I need the outlet and change of scenery.

The gym is like a small town we visit for a few hours each week. We know each other's first names and chat. We know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

With all that, it is going to feel kind of creepy going back and the environment will have to be different for some months ahead.

So, here I am at home. I dragged a mismatched bunch of old lifting equipment out of my garage and set up on my back patio and I go for sunset rides.

Today, I did four hours of fighting back the jungle that is my backyard. Climbing, cutting, chopping, digging and hauling. It actually makes for a decent workout.

Someone once told me "If you do your own yard work, you will live forever." I think there may be something to that.

The Amish are among the fittest people in the country, so you’re right. You have no idea how much I’ll miss my gym. It was a wonderful community. But “social distancing” and sanitation fears are going to spell big problems for gyms.

[AngryScientist]

[B][B]

The Amish are among the fittest people in the country, so you’re right. You have no idea how much I’ll miss my gym. It was a wonderful community. But “social distancing” and sanitation fears are going to spell big problems for gyms.

what will be particularly damaging is if some of the predictions wind up being correct and this virus has pop up effects for a prolonged period, and we have to toggle between opening and re-closing public spaces like gyms repeatedly. people will just give up on the gym.

[XXtwindad]

what will be particularly damaging is if some of the predictions wind up being correct and this virus has pop up effects for a prolonged period, and we have to toggle between opening and re-closing public spaces like gyms repeatedly. people will just give up on the gym.

Unfortunately, that’s just the proverbial “tip of the iceberg.” Try concerts, sporting events, theaters, many restaurants, etc. Our economy is not predicated on social distancing.

[XXtwindad]

Talk about working out in small, confined spaces. Good for them.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/style/coronaviurs-personal-training-former-inmates-a-second-u.amp.html