Chorus 12 hydro

[CNY rider]

Thinking about this group for a gravel road bike build.
Found another thread on Campy hydro discs in general that was filled with very positive opinions.
Has anyone used the Chorus 12 group for a gravel road bike?
Appreciate any thoughts.
Thanks.

[shoota]

Following this. Been thinking about the same (maybe 11s speed though).

[nmrt]

i wanted to. but where i ride, a clutch derailleur is a must for my gravel ride. so, i decided against anything campy until they come out with a clutch rd.

[CNY rider]

I may have to take one for the team. I’m confident in Campy.

[AngryScientist]

I may have to take one for the team. I’m confident in Campy.

i think you are safe!

i also dont think a clutch RD is absolutely necessary with a properly designed RD operating within it's intended range.

looking forward to see what cny has cooking!

[PaMtbRider]

I've read in a couple of places where the Campy 12 speed derailleur design doesn't require a clutch, something about how it tensions the chain. I don't think you need a clutch design for the majority of the smooth dirt you have in your area anyway.
So what's brewing CNYRider?

[d_douglas]

I owned Potenza 11spd and rode trails on it - never dropped a chain. It is great stuff. I use SRAM hydro now because it is cheap and easy, but would use Campy again for a 'nice build'.

That said, I am impressed with SRAM thus far (though the brakes are bugging me - they've got nothing on Shimano and Campy).

[Velocipede]

I have it on one of my bikes and put it on a couple client bikes as well. It's a wonderful kit. Shifts great, looks great, isn't as expensive as the 11 speed version.

[AngryScientist]

I have it on one of my bikes and put it on a couple client bikes as well. It's a wonderful kit. Shifts great, looks great, isn't as expensive as the 11 speed version.

what a lovely bike! very nice.

do you have some miles on it? would you agree with me that clutch is not necessary since RD is properly designed for intended use?

personally, i think clutch RD is only necessary with 1x drivetrains.

[teleguy57]

Running Chorus 11 hydro and think the performance is top notch. Haven't worried about needing a clutch rear even bouncing around on some crappy semi-pavement (abandoned segment of asphalt road that was in need of resurfacing 4 or 5 years ago).

I don't want to think about going to 12 -- but if it's less expensive than my 11 was:)

[Velocipede]

what a lovely bike! very nice.

do you have some miles on it? would you agree with me that clutch is not necessary since RD is properly designed for intended use?

personally, i think clutch RD is only necessary with 1x drivetrains.

Thanks. Quite a few miles on it. And no, it's not needed on a 2x drivetrain. Haven't had any issues yet. Shifts perfect under power. For a 1x, I think it's more important.

[CNY rider]

I've read in a couple of places where the Campy 12 speed derailleur design doesn't require a clutch, something about how it tensions the chain. I don't think you need a clutch design for the majority of the smooth dirt you have in your area anyway.
So what's brewing CNYRider?

I'm looking to support the upstate NY economy and No22 is having a nice sale......:)

[thirdgenbird]

Really tempted to go chorus 12 myself. Rim brake, but only because my yeti frame works so well for me.

[Velocipede]

Really tempted to go chorus 12 myself. Rim brake, but only because my yeti frame works so well for me.

Do it. It's a great group. I am curious what the 1x13 will look like when it comes out in September. I am supposed to get a couple groups soon.

[thirdgenbird]

Campagnolo 1x13?

Has anyone tried Campag 12 with a 2x white industries crank? Any words of caution using a frame with top tube cable routing for the front derailleur?

[sailorboy]

I would recommend chorus 12 hydro over shimano. I built my zanc with shimano and used the grx crank cuz I wanted that 32-48 combo. Now that chorus has that, and the shifters looks better than shimano I wish it was out when I did my build. Test rode it around the block at cutlass velo shop and found the modulation and overall feel of the campy levers to be noticeably better than the ultegra hydro/mechanical on my bike.

[Velocipede]

Campagnolo 1x13?

Has anyone tried Campag 12 with a 2x white industries crank?

For the first question, Yes. It's real. It'll be out in September. Media has already seen it and ridden it. I haven't gotten my NDA so I guess I can mention it.

Campy 12 with a VBC, yes. I did it for someone in December? I'd have to look at the dates but pretty sure it was December. Worked fine. No issues so far. At least none that he's mentioned.

[thirdgenbird]

For the first question, Yes. It's real. It'll be out in September. Media has already seen it and ridden it. I haven't gotten my NDA so I guess I can mention it.

Campy 12 with a VBC, yes. I did it for someone in December? I'd have to look at the dates but pretty sure it was December. Worked fine. No issues so far. At least none that he's mentioned.

That has me thinking about waiting to see the 1x. I must have missed those pictures if they leaked.

Good deal. I sorta want a silver alloy crankset.

You missed my edit, have you used the new 12spd FD with a top pull frame? I’ve got a pulley to convert it but didn’t know if it made things tougher to set.

[Velocipede]

That has me thinking about waiting to see the 1x. I must have missed those pictures if they leaked.

Good deal. I sorta want a silver alloy crankset.

You missed my edit, have you used the new 12spd FD with a top pull frame? I’ve got a pulley to convert it but didn’t know if it made things tougher to set.

Nothing has leaked yet. Everyone has an NDA. I don't have mine yet though. I was supposed to get it awhile ago, at the start of the whole lockdown but since they are closed I'm not surprised I haven't gotten it.

Originally certain people inside Campy were talking about doing a classic silver alloy group because of all the people clamoring for it. They've said that when the Potenza kits get refinished, those have the highest numbers in the media. Higher than anything they post themselves. It kind of drives them nuts. They get pissed when media and bike companies do those refinished kits. They yelled at certain people and those people yelled back saying "there is nothing we can do. They paid for the parts. We can't tell them what to do with them."

I would love for them to do an alloy kit personally. Like a Record level kit.

As for the VBC in a TP, I am not sure. Mine was a bottom pull. I know some people who've had TPs on builds recently. I can ask.

[thirdgenbird]

I would appreciate info in top pull. 1x13 could sway me though. Do you know what level it would be coming in at? Hopefully available with traditional cable brakes and not disc only for oddballs like myself.

The bike is currently record 1x10 with a 10 speed chorus crankset and silver Campagnolo canti brakes. It could be cool to update to 1x13 and leave the old school chorus crank. Those bottom brackets seem bullet proof, it looks great, and I’ve got a custom 135bcd chain guard so it all sorta works on the 90/00s vibe on my Yeti ARC-X.

[Lanternrouge]

I would love for them to do an alloy kit personally. Like a Record level kit.


It seems like a polished Chorus group may make the most sense. Even if it costs a bunch more than black Chorus, it will still be a lot less then sending everything to Australia to be refinished. I've never thought about this before. Ever.

[thirdgenbird]

I asked him earlier this week about an alloy outer cage and brake levers on chorus 12...

[d_douglas]

I was drooling over that Potenza group that Mr Velocipede sold last year, thinking it’d be a gold mine for Campy to do this right in alloy.

No plastic inner levers, no composite bodies - but all alloy. I would pay the same for that as I would for a carbon group.

Ok, the more I talk about this, the more I want to switch from SRAM to Campy - polished or not!

[Coffee Rider]

Ok, the more I talk about this, the more I want to switch from SRAM to Campy - polished or not!

Campy is sexy. SRAM is functional.

[Velocipede]

I would appreciate info in top pull. 1x13 could sway me though. Do you know what level it would be coming in at? Hopefully available with traditional cable brakes and not disc only for oddballs like myself.

The bike is currently record 1x10 with a 10 speed chorus crankset and silver Campagnolo canti brakes. It could be cool to update to 1x13 and leave the old school chorus crank. Those bottom brackets seem bullet proof, it looks great, and I’ve got a custom 135bcd chain guard so it all sorta works on the 90/00s vibe on my Yeti ARC-X.

My bet is it will be like the Chorus 12 but a 1x13 and only in disc.

It seems like a polished Chorus group may make the most sense. Even if it costs a bunch more than black Chorus, it will still be a lot less then sending everything to Australia to be refinished. I've never thought about this before. Ever.

Chorus or Record in Alloy, not a huge difference to make them. Just slight differences. They could do either and people would be happy. But if they could do a Record kit at chorus pricing, they'd sell a ton. I've spoken to insiders and we've all been pushing for it. Even if they did a smaller run they'd be better off.

I asked him earlier this week about an alloy outer cage and brake levers on chorus 12...

Me? Sorry if I didn't answer it. I didn't see it.

I was drooling over that Potenza group that Mr Velocipede sold last year, thinking it’d be a gold mine for Campy to do this right in alloy.

No plastic inner levers, no composite bodies - but all alloy. I would pay the same for that as I would for a carbon group.

Ok, the more I talk about this, the more I want to switch from SRAM to Campy - polished or not!

I agree. I loved the way that disc group turned out. It was gorgeous. And it worked perfectly even though it had a White Industries VBC crankset. It would be great if they made a polished kit.

Campy is sexy. SRAM is functional.

I disagree. I think given what you can do with Campy, rebuilding and repair them, they are more functional than any other kit out there. And they are sexy.

[thirdgenbird]

No, I was referencing having the alloy on a chorus 12 group polished.

[jtbadge]

A silver Chorus 12 group is going to look even worse than Potenza with all of the plastic they’re using now.

[thirdgenbird]

I like the two tone look as long as it is high polished alloy and gloss carbon.

It would be similar in appearance to the original super record rear derailleur and the opposite of the record 10. Both some of the better looking ones that have made.

[Coffee Rider]

My bet is it will be like the Chorus 12 but a 1x13 and only in disc.



Chorus or Record in Alloy, not a huge difference to make them. Just slight differences. They could do either and people would be happy. But if they could do a Record kit at chorus pricing, they'd sell a ton. I've spoken to insiders and we've all been pushing for it. Even if they did a smaller run they'd be better off.



Me? Sorry if I didn't answer it. I didn't see it.



I agree. I loved the way that disc group turned out. It was gorgeous. And it worked perfectly even though it had a White Industries VBC crankset. It would be great if they made a polished kit.



I disagree. I think given what you can do with Campy, rebuilding and repair them, they are more functional than any other kit out there. And they are sexy.


I didn’t mean to imply that Campy’s quality is just it’s looks, but those are what first grab your attention. It works great too. I know SRAM works fine, but I don’t think anyone views it as sexy. At least I don’t.


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[one60]

Do it. It's a great group. I am curious what the 1x13 will look like when it comes out in September. I am supposed to get a couple groups soon.

Any idea if the 13 speed will retain compatibility with 10,11,12 speed hubs? Will the chain be same as 12 speed?

[nachetetm]

Originally certain people inside Campy were talking about doing a classic silver alloy group because of all the people clamoring for it. They've said that when the Potenza kits get refinished, those have the highest numbers in the media. Higher than anything they post themselves. It kind of drives them nuts. They get pissed when media and bike companies do those refinished kits. They yelled at certain people and those people yelled back saying "there is nothing we can do. They paid for the parts. We can't tell them what to do with them."



I would love for them to do an alloy kit personally. Like a Record level kit.




I've been saying for ages that campy needs a "classic" looking groupset with the latest tech to please the custom and neo-retro market, that seems to be growing year after year. The last really good looking groupset was Athena, and that one was missing ultratorque and ultrashift. Potenza is nice and the rear derailleur shape will beautifully combine with an all-silver look. Same for the levers. The crankset is a difficult one. The four arm ones are nice and logical, although the 5 arm old ones look even better. But I understand they can't make specific chainrings just for one single groupset.

[oldpotatoe]

Thinking about this group for a gravel road bike build.
Found another thread on Campy hydro discs in general that was filled with very positive opinions.
Has anyone used the Chorus 12 group for a gravel road bike?
Appreciate any thoughts.
Thanks.

Jim at Vecchio's has been all in on GRoad Moots, he's sold a ton of them..sram, shimano and Campag and the BEST hydros, in his opinion..in terms of set up and flawless function, have been the Campag ones. The shifting, mechanical, is as always, also flawless. Followed by shimano...mechnical.

[Velocipede]

No, I was referencing having the alloy on a chorus 12 group polished.

Ah. Gotcha. I know it saves money and adds durability replacing a few pieces with alloy vs carbon. And that's not a bad thing. And it could be polished easy enough.

A silver Chorus 12 group is going to look even worse than Potenza with all of the plastic they’re using now.

I disagree. The potenza looks great in polish. Not a fan of it in black. The satin silver isn't bad but the polished kits look amazing. If they could do a REAL Chorus in polished alloy, it would be fantastic.

I like the two tone look as long as it is high polished alloy and gloss carbon.

It would be similar in appearance to the original super record rear derailleur and the opposite of the record 10. Both some of the better looking ones that have made.

On the Potenza I don't mind the two-tone rear derailleur. Yeah, it'd be great if it were all alloy- more durable and all. But it's not bad. Sometimes you need a bit of color to break up the polished finish.

I didn’t mean to imply that Campy’s quality is just it’s looks, but those are what first grab your attention. It works great too. I know SRAM works fine, but I don’t think anyone views it as sexy. At least I don’t.

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No worries. Didn't take offense to it. I am not a fan of the SRAM kits. I've seen too many dead parts to justify buying it. IMO of course.

Any idea if the 13 speed will retain compatibility with 10,11,12 speed hubs? Will the chain be same as 12 speed?

I don't have my paperwork for it yet so I am not sure on the chain. I've heard the 13 fits the 12/11/10 hubs though.

I've been saying for ages that campy needs a "classic" looking groupset with the latest tech to please the custom and neo-retro market, that seems to be growing year after year. The last really good looking groupset was Athena, and that one was missing ultratorque and ultrashift. Potenza is nice and the rear derailleur shape will beautifully combine with an all-silver look. Same for the levers. The crankset is a difficult one. The four arm ones are nice and logical, although the 5 arm old ones look even better. But I understand they can't make specific chainrings just for one single groupset.

I agree. They need something. And they could do it easy enough. It's not like the don't have the tooling for it. I mean, I doubt they just up and trashed the dies and whatnot.

It's funny, I used to work at American Classic. And everything was being made in Taiwan. I begged them to do a limited run of US Made hubs. Or hubs with color. Not just the black and silver ones. They fought me hard on it till they took a poll and found out how many people agreed with me. They started doing the red hubs after that. I still say a ltd run of hubs made by Bill himself would've sold well. People want that. They like the handmade feel of things. It's the whole reason NAHBS is even around! It's the whole reason CycloRetro has a business! And he's doing very well at it.

[Velocipede]

Jim at Vecchio's has been all in on GRoad Moots, he's sold a ton of them..sram, shimano and Campag and the BEST hydros, in his opinion..in terms of set up and flawless function, have been the Campag ones. The shifting, mechanical, is as always, also flawless. Followed by shimano...mechnical.

I agree. The Campy Hyrdos are fantastic. They did an amazing job at getting it right the first time. I will say their calipers are more finicky for forks and frames being straight than the others. But that's not exactly a bad thing. But in terms of how good their kit is, it's at the top.

[Coffee Rider]

I don't have my paperwork for it yet so I am not sure on the chain. I've heard the 13 fits the 12/11/10 hubs though.


I've heard that 13 will require a different freehub, so this can be one of those big life mysteries for us to ponder between now and an official announcement. Of course, I'm also wondering whether Campy will be doing a 2x13 group, though I really care more about a polished group.

[David Benson]

I haven't gotten my NDA so I guess I can mention it. .

I guess you can, but its still a breach of trust.

[oldpotatoe]

Campagnolo 1x13?

Has anyone tried Campag 12 with a 2x white industries crank? Any words of caution using a frame with top tube cable routing for the front derailleur?

Got a pulley to use the bottom pull front der? Should be fine.

[oldpotatoe]

For the first question, Yes. It's real. It'll be out in September. Media has already seen it and ridden it. I haven't gotten my NDA so I guess I can mention it.

Campy 12 with a VBC, yes. I did it for someone in December? I'd have to look at the dates but pretty sure it was December. Worked fine. No issues so far. At least none that he's mentioned.

Gad ZOOKS..same rear hub/freehub body? Mechanical and/or electronic? rim brakes or just hydro?

Once again(and I'm NOT saying more gears=better kit), Campagnolo
-first to 9s(1997)
-first to 10s(2000)
-first to 11s(2009)
-first to 12s(2019)
and now, first to 13s:)

[oldpotatoe]

Campy is sexy. SRAM is functional.

Unless sram breaks...I fix Campag ERGO levers(not that many 2009+ break) often. I buy assemblies and cannibalize them. Levers from 1992/3 until today. I could do that with sram...nope, just kidding..:)

[Hilltopperny]

Who makes the Campagnolo hydros? I thought I read somewhere it was Magura. I have four piston Magura brakes on my fat bike and they are some of the best brakes I have used to date. I had an opportunity to take a short ride on Super Record hydro disc and it was very nice! Seemed less clunky than the Shimano I am currently running and the Sram I have used in the past.

I have a clutch derailleur in a box for when I wear out the previous non clutched version I am running now. The only time I have had the chain drop was on terrain that would have been better suited for a full suspension mountain bike. I was pitched over the bars when riding over a semi frozen spot and my front wheel sunk into the mud below it. I still have a small ring on my Drifter because when I switched to 1x the new chainring didn’t come with the shorter bolts, so all it did was drop into the small ring. The chain does bounce around a bit, but I am running an Ultegra mid cage with a 10-42 rear cassette and a 44t oval ring up front. The sub compact rings on Chorus and the ability to run a 11-34 should give plenty of range without having the chain slap or any chain drop issues even without a clutch.


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[Velocipede]

I guess you can, but its still a breach of trust.

It's still in the public domain tho. So even if I weren't an insider, I could've mentioned it now cause I've seen the USPTO Patent Applications as well as some information on another site. I get your point tho.

[Velocipede]

Gad ZOOKS..same rear hub/freehub body? Mechanical and/or electronic? rim brakes or just hydro?

Once again(and I'm NOT saying more gears=better kit), Campagnolo
-first to 9s(1997)
-first to 10s(2000)
-first to 11s(2009)
-first to 12s(2019)
and now, first to 13s:)

Well technically the old Mavic index downtube shifter had 13 clicks. But they never made a 13speed available. And White had their 25 speed back at Interbike in 96? I believe. Same with availability.

[Velocipede]

Who makes the Campagnolo hydros? I thought I read somewhere it was Magura. I have four piston Magura brakes on my fat bike and they are some of the best brakes I have used to date. I had an opportunity to take a short ride on Super Record hydro disc and it was very nice! Seemed less clunky than the Shimano I am currently running and the Sram I have used in the past.

I have a clutch derailleur in a box for when I wear out the previous non clutched version I am running now. The only time I have had the chain drop was on terrain that would have been better suited for a full suspension mountain bike. I was pitched over the bars when riding over a semi frozen spot and my front wheel sunk into the mud below it. I still have a small ring on my Drifter because when I switched to 1x the new chainring didn’t come with the shorter bolts, so all it did was drop into the small ring. The chain does bounce around a bit, but I am running an Ultegra mid cage with a 10-42 rear cassette and a 44t oval ring up front. The sub compact rings on Chorus and the ability to run a 11-34 should give plenty of range without having the chain slap or any chain drop issues even without a clutch.


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Yes, it's Magura. They use the same Royal Blood fluid too. The brakes are incredibly well designed, minimal tools, reduced parts needed, user serviceable, fantastic shape and they work beautifully.

AND as the story goes, Valentino Campagnolo was on a ride with a group of designers/engineers on the hydro kits. There were a mix of 6-Bolt rotors and CEnterlock rotors from Shimano. He had a 6-Bolt on his bike. The story goes he was braking down a hill and the bike was making a horrible noise. When they stopped he complained about it and the D/E guys said, that's cause it's a 6-Bolt style. Right then and there he said we are paying Shimano for the rights to use Centerlock.

[huck*this]

Oops

[huck*this]

I've heard that 13 will require a different freehub, so this can be one of those big life mysteries for us to ponder between now and an official announcement. Of course, I'm also wondering whether Campy will be doing a 2x13 group, though I really care more about a polished group.

Well technically the old Mavic index downtube shifter had 13 clicks. But they never made a 13speed available. And White had their 25 speed back at Interbike in 96? I believe. Same with availability.

The Rotor Uno have 13?

[oldpotatoe]

Well technically the old Mavic index downtube shifter had 13 clicks. But they never made a 13speed available. And White had their 25 speed back at Interbike in 96? I believe. Same with availability.

Sure, but none actually in production....shimano has a 14s(?) patent too but....

I'm a little surprised by this 'aimed at the US rider' group. BUT, the US is a BIG, if fickle, market.
The Rotor Uno have 13?

'In the market'. sorta, kinda, not really..

[Velocipede]

^^^^^^^. What he said on all of it. I mean, I get their idea but I'm not sure. If the pricing isn't competitive it's going to be a problem. They really need to tout the repairability/durability of Campy for gravel if they have any chance of making a dent. I wish them luck cause the new Chorus H12 is fantastic. And I would love for them to get more play.

I know the bikes I have for the show, of the 10 I'll have there, 6 are Campy equipped. 1 will have a GRX kit and the others will be Shimano of some flavor. I might switch out one for a SRAM build just cause I might switch out the overall bike. But I just like the way Campy sets up. It's just easier, cleaner.

[thirdgenbird]

I see Campagnolo specs the front derailleur for a maximum tire size of 32mm. I assume this is being pretty conservative? Does anyone know what to expect in reality?

[Velocipede]

I see Campagnolo specs the front derailleur for a maximum tire size of 32mm. I assume this is being pretty conservative? Does anyone know what to expect in reality?

I've had Chorus 12 front derailleurs on frames with 35, 38 and 40c tires. No issues at all. The pic while doesn't show clearance is for a Chorus 12 with a 38 Gravelking SK tire. Sorry for the bad pic. I usually have one from the back over the stays but I don't for some reason with this one.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I see Campagnolo specs the front derailleur for a maximum tire size of 32mm. I assume this is being pretty conservative? Does anyone know what to expect in reality?

I've had Chorus 12 front derailleurs on frames with 35, 38 and 40c tires. No issues at all. The pic while doesn't show clearance is for a Chorus 12 with a 38 Gravelking SK tire. Sorry for the bad pic. I usually have one from the back over the stays but I don't for some reason with this one.

This spec is essentially meaningless without a correlating chain stay length.

[thirdgenbird]

That was kind of my thought too. I could see there being issues on some of the more recent disc road race frames that fit wide tires but the typical bike that fits 35s to 40s has fairly long stays. Though, I do recall people having issues with the 9000/6800 front mech and etap as well.

I certainly don’t anticipate issues with the frame I am going to be using. Lots of space between the seat tube and tire.

[Mark McM]

This spec is essentially meaningless without a correlating chain stay length.

Why? The front derailleur cage is much closer to the tire than the chain is. Besides, chainstay length varies over only a small range, and the effect of chainstay length on drivetrain performance is often grossly exaggerated.

[thirdgenbird]

It’s about the upper arm. The distance from tire to seat tube can change pretty dramatically.

See borrowed picture.
https://www.slowtwitch.com/articles/images/7/100647-largest_1_FD_shims.jpg

Meanwhile, my frame has way more space between it’s 32mm tires and seat tube.