Replacing Shimano's wheel hub bearings to ceramic?

[zmalwo]

Have anyone tried to replace the loose ball bearings in Shimano hubs to ceramic ones? They are fairly cheap. However, I'm worried that the cup and cones in those hubs are not designed for hard ceramic bearings and risk damaging them if I use ceramic balls. Is it a good idea or bad?

[Ken Robb]

What do you hope to gain?

[charliedid]

Have anyone tried to replace the loose ball bearings in Shimano hubs to ceramic ones? They are fairly cheap. However, I'm worried that the cup and cones in those hubs are not designed for hard ceramic bearings and risk damaging them if I use ceramic balls. Is it a good idea or bad?

I don't have an answer other then to say I thought the same as you...

[Dave]

A fellow mechanical engineer named Hambini has many you tube videos and published writings on bicycle related topics and ceramic bearings is one of them. His opinion is that they are of little value for the exact reason that you mentioned. It makes no sense to have extremely hard balls riding against much softer steel races and the potential power savings is next to nothing.

[wallymann]

i know everyone points to data saying that they're a waste of money on bikes, and i understand the physics behind that...but in practice im a believer in ceramic bearings.

not because of lower rolling resistance, but durability. over the years many of my cartridge bearing wheels and cranks end up feeling like doo-doo in relatively short order, like 1-2 seasons...this was true *until* i started using ceramic bearings. all the ceramics i've retrofitted, many are now 5-10 years old, are still running perfectly smooooooove.

ceramic *cartridge* bearings...FTW!

on the OPs question about ceramics with cup-and-cone...i have cup-and-cone bearings that are +30 years old, original stainless cups and cones, and they still roll smooth-smooth-smooth. in that case, i'd stick with hardened steel balls.

[robt57]

i know everyone points to data saying that they're a waste of money on bikes, and i understand the physics behind that...but in practice im a believer in ceramic bearings.

not because of lower rolling resistance, but durability. over the years many of my cartridge bearing wheels and cranks end up feeling like doo-doo in relatively short order, like 1-2 seasons...this was true *until* i started using ceramic bearings. all the ceramics i've retrofitted, many are now 5-10 years old, are still running perfectly smooooooove.

ceramic bearings...FTW!

But you have so pairs of sneakers how much use does each pair get really in 5-10 seasons. Not like me with only a few bikes most.. ;) [insert ducking emoji]

[oldpotatoe]

Have anyone tried to replace the loose ball bearings in Shimano hubs to ceramic ones? They are fairly cheap. However, I'm worried that the cup and cones in those hubs are not designed for hard ceramic bearings and risk damaging them if I use ceramic balls. Is it a good idea or bad?

You are right. Without using specialty hardened steel cones and cups, you are asking for a failed/toasted hub..

As for mentioned above, cartridge bearings that have ceramic bearing balls..Decent ones also have hardened cones and cups and will last a long time..but loose ball, cup and cone bearings..you ask for a toasted hub by using ceramic balls.

[benb]

i know everyone points to data saying that they're a waste of money on bikes, and i understand the physics behind that...but in practice im a believer in ceramic bearings.

not because of lower rolling resistance, but durability. over the years many of my cartridge bearing wheels and cranks end up feeling like doo-doo in relatively short order, like 1-2 seasons...this was true *until* i started using ceramic bearings. all the ceramics i've retrofitted, many are now 5-10 years old, are still running perfectly smooooooove.

ceramic bearings...FTW!

I just had a set of Tiagra hubs rebuilt 6 months ago.. they went 7 years of all weather abuse with 0 maintenance. Lots of winter salted road riding without cleaning, who knows how many miles, maybe 20k?

It cost < $50 including labor IIRC to have the hubs rebuilt with new bearings and they're good as new again.

I have had a Ceramic BB years ago because the LBS threw it in with a new frame, it was fine, not like I hate ceramic stuff.

But it seems like redoing Shimano hubs with ceramic bearings is just increasing your risk of screwing something up and making them less reliable unless you already need to replace the bearings.

Also might as well stick to something with cartridge bearings where the whole cartridge is redesigned for ceramic, most Shimano hubs don't fall into that right? Ceramic looks like it's at least 4-5x the cost? Ceramic speed wants near $200 just for the bearings before you even consider labor.

[robt57]

My 7700 wheelset is on 3rd set of rims, and same amount of repacks at [guessing] 35k on them, were rain wheels in NJ. All the same spokes too.

I still feel these roll as good or better than pretty much anything..

[Velocipede]

I've done this before on a pair of 7700 hubs and it WILL kill the cups and cones faster.

[Gummee]

I've done this before on a pair of 7700 hubs and it WILL kill the cups and cones faster.

Cones aren't such a big deal. Cups? Nother story

M

[93KgBike]

Have anyone tried to replace the loose ball bearings in Shimano hubs to ceramic ones? They are fairly cheap. However, I'm worried that the cup and cones in those hubs are not designed for hard ceramic bearings and risk damaging them if I use ceramic balls. Is it a good idea or bad?

Those are the most important words in experimental design.

I have done exactly this, and I recommend you go for it; spoiler alert: it will disappoint in all ways except smiles and back-pats

I also tried the inverse? ordering custom cartridge bearings to fit over a loose axle between the race and the cup. It worked! but not better than the loose balls designed to be there

I spent just enough time wrenching in shops to pick up the habit of doing absolutely absurd things with components, and the end results are never* thermogenic

go for it!

*during the era prior to bicycles having chem/batts and motors, so....

[tv_vt]

My 7700 wheelset is on 3rd set of rims, and same amount of repacks at [guessing] 35k on them, were rain wheels in NJ. All the same spokes too.

I still feel these roll as good or better than pretty much anything..

Reminds me of the best set of wheels I ever had: DA7700 hubs laced to Mavic Open Pros. Replaced the rims 3 times, then updated the hubs to DA9000 to go to 11 speed. Still rolling, good as new. ;)

[Black Dog]

Reminds me of the best set of wheels I ever had: DA7700 hubs laced to Mavic Open Pros. Replaced the rims 3 times, then updated the hubs to DA9000 to go to 11 speed. Still rolling, good as new. ;)

I agree. I have a set of 7700 hubs with 50000km on them and they are still smooth as butter (on their second set of rims). BTW, they have the original ball bearings in them! It is never a good idea to have bearings that are harder than the races. Other way around is ok.

[Gummee]

Longest lasting pair of wheels/hubs I've ever had were a pair of Mavic 571/2s in Reflex (pre-Open Pros)

They were built for a former pro racer buddy of mine.

The Shimano hubs I've had have lasted about as long, but needed a bit more TLC to get there.

M