I am deciding between a Rock Lobster and a Cicli Barco. Thoughts?

[dvnzzz]

Hey! New user here and a steel noob but am very excited to give steel a try. I currently ride a Storck Fenomalist and its time to move on!

So after researching on steel frames, I have come down to two brands. If I could have both I would, but the sensible thing is to just pick one. I was wondering if anyone can share their experience with me, to help me make a decision.


1. Rock Lobster.

Heard good stuff about Paul Sadoff, and like how fun the whole bike and brand look. The tubings are a mix of Columbus LIFE and ZONA and are TIG welded. I like the seafoam color and have yet to decide if I should build one with oversized tubes and an enve fork or thinner tubes and a steel fork for a more classic look. Being my first steel frame, I was considering going for mid-range tubings which is what Rock Lobster offers so that I can understand more about what steel has to offer before I try the higher-end offerings like XCR, 953 etc.

(+) Paul seems to emphasize a lot about the ride

(+) Slightly more affordable than the Cicli Barco

(+) Made in USA

(-) Looks more typical, nothing that will particularly catch your eye and blow your mind. Paint jobs are pretty standard stuff, though I like the lobster branding.

(-) Cheaper tubings, should this matter?

(-) Heard his weldings are a little less refined, but then again, his brand is all about the ride (***So some guys have clarified that this is not true, and Paul's welding is top-notch)

(-) 4 to 5 months waiting time



2. Cicli Barco

Heard about this because I was researching about the Cinelli XCR and realized that Barco builds the Cinelli frames. Their bikes are beautiful. They offer XCR and spirit builds as well and offer a really nice looking (and I read beautiful riding) VIVA stainless fork. I really like the XCR build

(+) Beautiful, Made in Italy, classic look

(+) Offer higher-end Columbus tubings like the XCR and Spirit

(+) I was told about 14 weeks waiting time

(+) Despite their cost, I know that these bikes are gonna be keepers but feel like I should get them when I am older and deserve a more classy/refined ride.

(-) Taking the Rock Lobster as a reference, the Barco XCR is about 1000USD more expensive, and the Barco Spirit is about 250USD more expensive.

(-) Don't get to experience the mid-range tubing, and will just be spoiling myself if I go with the Barco.



I think I would build them up with rim brakes as I don't want to buy into the hype of disc brakes. Don't need disc brakes for the terrain and climate I live in as well. Rim brakes have that classic look that I love as well. Only concern is wear and tear of carbon wheels but...oh well.


Let me know your thoughts!

[Reedy1]

Mmm. I would always go the more exotic frame . Barco for me . Almost bought one last year . Just got another Italion frame last week . Vetta - colour shift . Dedacciai aegis alumni https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200408/f7f566106f3b47e5d2e4decb869d0cb8.png


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[weisan]

What is your intended use?

What kind of riding do you do now?

Are you planning to travel with it?

What's your budget?

Do you need help with fit?

What do you like or dislike about your current bike?

Have you ridden a steel bike before?

How long have you been riding?

Which part of town do you live in Singapore?

[dvnzzz]

Mmm. I would always go the more exotic frame . Barco for me . Almost bought one last year . Just got another Italion frame last week . Vetta - colour shift . Dedacciai aegis alumni

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Fair enough, nice bike! I was thinking, since this is my first steel frame, that I should try something less extravagant so that I can work my way up. Not to say that the Rock Lobsters are inferior or anything, but I always thought that it is hard to appreciate the best without trying something more affordable first.

[dvnzzz]

What is your intended use?

What kind of riding do you do now?

Are you planning to travel with it?

What's your budget?

Do you need help with fit?

What do you like or dislike about your current bike?

Have you ridden a steel bike before?

How long have you been riding?

Which part of town do you live in Singapore?


1. Hey! I mostly do casual rides, with groups or alone. No racing at all, but I do like going fast when I can and want to. But yeah pretty much casual riding on normal tarmac.

2. Travelling, probably. Have been on trips to Thailand and Australia on my previous bike so that is an important consideration.

3. I am hoping to spend < 3k USD for a frameset. I am not sure if I should go all out for an XCR at this point in time. Probably don't wanna spoil myself.
Current quoted prices are around 2.2k for the Lobster, 2.45k for the Spirit, and 3.2k for the XCR.

4. Fit, yes will probably need to get one done as my current bike was not professionally fitted at all.

5. My current bike is a Storck, which is also my first road bike. Have been riding it for the past 4+ years. Its stiff enough for me, light, and pretty comfy. Haven't experienced any issues to be honest.

6. Not at all, but if I am getting a new bike, it would be a steel one. Wanted to try something different.

7. Close to 5 years.

8. West side! Haha, what about yourself!

Thanks for your really good questions!

[gibbo]

Barco XCR gets my vote. Stainless XCR tubing is fantastic, and weld quality is very important to me.

Good luck, either choice will be a nice ride for sure.


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[Reedy1]

Thought about vynl bikes ? Gaulzetti ?


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[bewheels]

http://ifbikes.com
Look at the Crown Jewel.
Fantastic steel bikes.
Very high quality.
In your budget.
They have been building steel for several decades.
You have your choice of paint finishes from single color to wild (do a google search to see what I mean).
Made in the US but they do a lot of business out of the US and therefor are used to working with non-US based customers.

Did I mention high quality and great finish work? ...take 20 minutes with google images to see what I mean.

[R3awak3n]

Rock lobster. I love mine and will consider another in the future.

I am done with precious bikes, I want a bike to be ridden and that is what RL is all about

[dvnzzz]

Barco XCR gets my vote. Stainless XCR tubing is fantastic, and weld quality is very important to me.

Good luck, either choice will be a nice ride for sure.


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Share some pics! :) Thanks for your thoughts.

http://ifbikes.com
Look at the Crown Jewel.
Fantastic steel bikes.
Very high quality.
In your budget.
They have been building steel for several decades.
You have your choice of paint finishes from single color to wild (do a google search to see what I mean).
Made in the US but they do a lot of business out of the US and therefor are used to working with non-US based customers.

Did I mention high quality and great finish work? ...take 20 minutes with google images to see what I mean.

Hey yeah, IF was on my list. Their price adds up and I figured that at that price I could get a Bixxis or a Barco and these Italian brands seem to be less common as well where I come from. I know IF makes amazing bikes from what I've read and they have a huge following. Maybe I'll reconsider and check them out again! Have you guys heard of Chris Chance's Slim Chance? Was considering that as well! So many choices!

Rock lobster. I love mine and will consider another in the future.

I am done with precious bikes, I want a bike to be ridden and that is what RL is all about

Yeah, one of the major reasons why I am considering a Rock Lobster. It feels like a bike that I don't need to worry about getting paint chips or dinks. A bike to be ridden indeed. I see the Italian builds as a luxury bike that I should baby a lot! Could you share some pics of your build?

[FlashUNC]

Paul is a joy to work with, and builds a no nonsense bike that drives incredibly well and looks great to boot.

His steel work is outstanding. Rock Lobster all day.

[Peter P.]

Another Rock Lobster (https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f11/rock-lobster-28371.html) owner here.

I don't know where you got your information from regarding Paul's welding, but the weld beads on my frame are near-invisible.

He is fabulous to deal with. His prices are TOO low! His turnaround is pretty accurate and short, too.

Get one. If you want to make it "more exclusive", ask Paul to build the frame with one of his monostay rear ends, which he usually reserves for his mountain bikes.

[uber]

I would make bike fit my priority. i have owned two Speedvagens with very
different experiences based on an average vs a dialed in fit. After that, I would go with the frame that speaks to me and be less concerned over which steel. Some XCR bikes might not ride as well as another brand's Columbus. I prefer the ride of a Mxxxxxo over a Responsorium.
I personally would be thrilled with a used SV or Peg frame. I am a big fan of Mike DeSalvo and Independent Fab too.
If you are planning on carbon wheels, I have found Campy and Enve to be very robust.
Have a great time putting this together.

[ahsere]

There are many options out there, IF is one of them, many other excellent builders in your price range, I'd look at Waterford too but there are many other great options (those are just two brands that I have in my stable right now, but the list could be endless). Now, if you're looking to drop that kind of coin on a frameset, I'd go with the one that offers me more customization and makes me feel like they really understand my needs. For 3k, with a little bit of patience, you can probably find a high-end steel frame or even complete bike with quality components on the bay or in this forum. But it will not be tailored to your specific needs the way a full custom will. It is not clear to me from looking at their website what is the level of customization Cicli Barco offers, I know Sadoff, IF, Waterford and the like will build you a bike that is perfectly thought out for your riding style, physical measurements and condition, and so on. If the Italians deliver similar levels of customization then it is entirely a matter of aesthetic preference.
...and about the tube sets used and whether or not you will be "spoiled" if you go with XCR or similar for your first steel bike, I have seen many respected builders claim over and over that the tubes are but one factor of the equation and that a good builder will create a great bike with any decent tube set. And I bet many/most of us would be hard-pressed to distinguish between different levels of high-quality steel in a blind test.

[colker]

Are you on the US? Rock Lobster.

[dvnzzz]

Paul is a joy to work with, and builds a no nonsense bike that drives incredibly well and looks great to boot.

His steel work is outstanding. Rock Lobster all day.

Thanks for your recommendations :banana: Do you ride one? any pics ? :)

Another Rock Lobster (https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f11/rock-lobster-28371.html) owner here.

I don't know where you got your information from regarding Paul's welding, but the weld beads on my frame are near-invisible.

He is fabulous to deal with. His prices are TOO low! His turnaround is pretty accurate and short, too.

Get one. If you want to make it "more exclusive", ask Paul to build the frame with one of his monostay rear ends, which he usually reserves for his mountain bikes.

Thanks, I was just reading your post about powder coats and then you replied here! Seems like you really love your Lobster! I read a review about his bike and the reviewer critiqued about some parts of the welding but it was by no means a bad review: https://pezcyclingnews.com/latestnews/rock-lobster-a-statement-bike/

Would you consider his prices low now? I understand his prices used to be lower a few years back (based on my research).

I'll check out those rear ends! I saw one of his posts with a custom headbadge of a lobster drinking a pint :beer: ! Pretty cool

I would make bike fit my priority. i have owned two Speedvagens with very
different experiences based on an average vs a dialed in fit. After that, I would go with the frame that speaks to me and be less concerned over which steel. Some XCR bikes might not ride as well as another brand's Columbus. I prefer the ride of a Mxxxxxo over a Responsorium.
I personally would be thrilled with a used SV or Peg frame. I am a big fan of Mike DeSalvo and Independent Fab too.
If you are planning on carbon wheels, I have found Campy and Enve to be very robust.
Have a great time putting this together.

Gotcha, I think I will go for a bike fit once and for all, even though it's pretty pricey where I come from.

There are many options out there, IF is one of them, many other excellent builders in your price range, I'd look at Waterford too but there are many other great options (those are just two brands that I have in my stable right now, but the list could be endless). Now, if you're looking to drop that kind of coin on a frameset, I'd go with the one that offers me more customization and makes me feel like they really understand my needs. For 3k, with a little bit of patience, you can probably find a high-end steel frame or even complete bike with quality components on the bay or in this forum. But it will not be tailored to your specific needs the way a full custom will. It is not clear to me from looking at their website what is the level of customization Cicli Barco offers, I know Sadoff, IF, Waterford and the like will build you a bike that is perfectly thought out for your riding style, physical measurements and condition, and so on. If the Italians deliver similar levels of customization then it is entirely a matter of aesthetic preference.
...and about the tube sets used and whether or not you will be "spoiled" if you go with XCR or similar for your first steel bike, I have seen many respected builders claim over and over that the tubes are but one factor of the equation and that a good builder will create a great bike with any decent tube set. And I bet many/most of us would be hard-pressed to distinguish between different levels of high-quality steel in a blind test.

Thanks for your advice. I think ideally I would like to keep my budget around <2.3k but I don't mind spending more towards the 3k region if I think it's necessary.

Yeah, Barco has quite a ton of options as well, and it is surprisingly easy to communicate with Gianluca.

And you're right, both Barco and Rock Lobster are probably gonna ride well irrespective of what tubesets etc, just figuring out which aesthetic and riding style is more suitable for me right now. Rock Lobster's look really utilitarian and low maintenance, the Barco's look like pieces of art.

I'm gonna check out waterford! One of the reasons why I kinda struck IF off the list was cause everyone would probably know the brand given its one of the biggest in the business. I wanted something rarer !

[dvnzzz]

Are you on the US? Rock Lobster.

I'm from Singapore!

[choke]

Out of those two I'd pick a Rock Lobster. I don't own one but I've talked to Paul several times and he's a really great guy. His bikes are very nice IMO.

But at a $3k budget, the world is your oyster. There are tons of options out there and if you want something rare a Bixxis would be hard to beat. Or a Hampsten....

http://hampco.ciocctoo.com/070416c.jpg

[gibbo]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200408/2669e52c621ab69e39c03e7183a76652.jpg
This is a pic of my Baum’s rear triangle , it is Columbus XCR. The Stainless is not easy to work with for the manufacturers as it is very tough. However, that same property of toughness is great, especially in the rear triangle that normally sees the most damage from rock chips or chain slap. It is close to Ti for corrosion resistance as well.

The geometry and fit of the frame will actually make the biggest difference in how well you will get along with your frame. Find a maker you can easily communicate with and have some discussions before making up your mind as to what frame is right for you.

If you can afford it and want it then get it. I would never be afraid of spoiling myself. :-)


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[Black Dog]

You should be considering Kirk Frameworks (David Kirk) and Ellis (Dave Wages). Steel, Amazing custom quality, and rare.

http://www.kirkframeworks.com/


https://www.elliscycles.com/


Both are USA made and are very easy to work with.

[weisan]

1. Hey! I mostly do casual rides, with groups or alone. No racing at all, but I do like going fast when I can and want to. But yeah pretty much casual riding on normal tarmac.

2. Travelling, probably. Have been on trips to Thailand and Australia on my previous bike so that is an important consideration.

3. I am hoping to spend < 3k USD for a frameset. I am not sure if I should go all out for an XCR at this point in time. Probably don't wanna spoil myself.
Current quoted prices are around 2.2k for the Lobster, 2.45k for the Spirit, and 3.2k for the XCR.

4. Fit, yes will probably need to get one done as my current bike was not professionally fitted at all.

5. My current bike is a Storck, which is also my first road bike. Have been riding it for the past 4+ years. Its stiff enough for me, light, and pretty comfy. Haven't experienced any issues to be honest.

6. Not at all, but if I am getting a new bike, it would be a steel one. Wanted to try something different.

7. Close to 5 years.

8. West side! Haha, what about yourself!

Thanks for your really good questions!


Thank you for answering my questions!
:p

I think you are in a very good place.

Here's what I would recommend, personally.

I would seriously consider a titanium coupled bike but that would definitely go over your budget.

I know as riders/bikers, we go through a process of evolution, so I understand if you are not quite there yet, and it's ok. Enjoy the process...

I have many...many steel bikes, also quite a few carbon, mixed, Ti...you name it. And I ride them all. They are all nice. But I prefer Ti.

How tall are you and how much do you weigh?
Do you like to climb? (chuckle: Mt Faber?)
Do you like to sprint? (chuckle: Changi coastal road?)
Do you have a desired wait time? (chuckle: can you afford to wait for something like David Kirk?)

I am originally from Singapore. I used to live in Katong. My issue with steel is the seasalt/wind - rust is something you need to consider. It's not as big a deal if you coat it with framesaver every now and then. But it's a concern. With Ti or stainless steel, you won't have to worry about it.

Good luck with your next bike, and like I said, enjoy the (agonizing) process. :p

[madsciencenow]

You should be considering Kirk Frameworks (David Kirk) and Ellis (Dave Wages). Steel, Amazing custom quality, and rare.

http://www.kirkframeworks.com/


https://www.elliscycles.com/


Both are USA made and are very easy to work with.


These are both great options. I’m not sure you can get a Kirk at the price point mentioned. However, may be worth an email or call to find out.


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[colker]

I'm from Singapore!

Both Barco and Lobster are great choices. Don´t get hung up on tubing characteristics. It matters very little. Handling and acceleration is where it´s at and every high end steel, titanium or aluminum tubing can give you that provided the builder has talent and experience.
Chose the builder you feel can best communicate w/ you. Empathy.

[dvnzzz]

Thanks for the advice so far, I'll reply as a whole to prevent the post from getting too chunky

I just took a peep at Kirk's stuff, and that is something different. Beautiful stuff but I can think it's out of my budget currently.

Baum makes beautiful bikes too, but way over budget too.

To answer @weisan, I like flats, and I do go down the southern ridges area for some light climbing but that's about it. Singapore's terrain is pretty boring I gotta say.

So I've learned that tubing shouldn't matter in terms of ride quality and as the saying goes, trust the builder. However, I'm just thinking if it is worth it to pay a certain price for a builder that operates on cheaper tubings. For e.g. Say I pay 3.2k for a Barco XCR, I know its expensive cause the tubings are way more expensive and it's harder to work with.

I have had a few guys telling me to be wary about normal steel rusting, and told me to consider Stainless and titanium, but should this really be that much of a concern? Given Rock Lobster is from Santa Cruz, CA, I was thinking I didn't have to worry that much as I figure most of his customers are locals. I don't really ride by the coastline that often either.

[dpdan93]

http://ifbikes.com
Look at the Crown Jewel.
Fantastic steel bikes.
Very high quality.
In your budget.
They have been building steel for several decades.
You have your choice of paint finishes from single color to wild (do a google search to see what I mean).
Made in the US but they do a lot of business out of the US and therefor are used to working with non-US based customers.

Did I mention high quality and great finish work? ...take 20 minutes with google images to see what I mean.


this x100000000

[weisan]

I have had a few guys telling me to be wary about normal steel rusting, and told me to consider Stainless and titanium, but should this really be that much of a concern?

From my personal experience living in Singapore...yes it is.

Not just sea-related concern but humidity, monsoon season, regular afternoon showers, change of weather.

I can tell you this...if you dent, scratch or scrape off any paint, down to the bare metal, it will rust within a week...in Singapore, yes.

[macaroon]

Rock Lobster with smaller diameter (i.e. not OS) tubes, 1&1/8th head tube and a curved blade steel fork.

Or a Ritchey Road Logic if you wanted to save some time and money and jump straight in to steel.

[macaroon]

I have had a few guys telling me to be wary about normal steel rusting, and told me to consider Stainless and titanium, but should this really be that much of a concern? Given Rock Lobster is from Santa Cruz, CA, I was thinking I didn't have to worry that much as I figure most of his customers are locals. I don't really ride by the coastline that often either.

No concern at all. Steel rusts, but unless you really neglect your bike it won't cause you any problems. Coat the inside of the frame with framesaver if it puts your mind at ease, but it's not necessary.

[dpdan93]

Have you considered high-end alu? LOW, rock lobster, Weis

[wc1934]

Thanks - I have never heard of Barco before - wow - they are gorgeous!!!
This would be an easy choice for me.
http://www.ciclibarco.it/?portfolio=prova-prova

[Elefantino]

If you're deciding between the two, my hat's off to you. You're in a good place and from what I understand you can't make a wrong decision!

[Lionel]

Rock lobster. I love mine and will consider another in the future.

I am done with precious bikes, I want a bike to be ridden and that is what RL is all about

This.

[nobuseri]

I like both companies, but I would go Cicli Barco XCr.

My $0.02, but I am biased; I had Barco build me one a couple years ago. Fantastic ride. I chose XCr Max tubing, Columbus Futura fork. They are very easy to work with. Took a while to get, but it was well worth it. Some of the delay was waiting for the tubing from Columbus, and a few holidays here and there.

[FlashUNC]

Thanks for your recommendations :banana: Do you ride one? any pics ? :)



Yes, well, had one. Had to part with it to make room for something else, but it was a fantastic bike. Full details here:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=167566

[majorpat]

One of the many, many satisfied Rock Lobster customers here and I will pile on and say get the Lobster. Though mine is aluminum, so I have never seen a steel on in person, I can certainly say that Paul is great and will build you what you need.
Pat

[brook_63]

"Thanks, I was just reading your post about powder coats and then you replied here! Seems like you really love your Lobster! I read a review about his bike and the reviewer critiqued about some parts of the welding but it was by no means a bad review: https://pezcyclingnews.com/latestnews/rock-lobster-a-statement-bike/"

Well, I actually owned that pez bike for a while, so I know what I am talking about.

That particular build was an Aluminum bike- you are not going to get Moots like welding with Tig aluminum.

Having owned 4+ of Paul's frames (steel), along with Gunnars, Steelmans, De Salvo's, the Rock Lobster's welds are with the best of them- period!

So, having said that, Paul's frames are a bargain, on time and look very nice, remember you are choosing the details. Paint, head tube size, all of it if you wish.
Get your fit dialed, talk to Paul about where you ride, riding style, terrain, your personal characteristics, weight etc..., and get out of your own way. Paul knows what to do!

[gibbo]

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157164
Check this build out, I really like this bike a lot! :banana::banana:

[Clean39T]

Hey! New user here and a steel noob but am very excited to give steel a try. I currently ride a Storck Fenomalist and its time to move on!

So after researching on steel frames, I have come down to two brands. If I could have both I would, but the sensible thing is to just pick one. I was wondering if anyone can share their experience with me, to help me make a decision.



I wouldn't go with either. And here's why. If you want to experience something unique and different, and that is what is driving you to try steel, then you should be looking at a steel frame and fork, custom made for you, that fits you well from a balance and COG perspective and meets your preferred riding style. Carbon forks on steel bikes are a compromise - I've ridden enough to know. And while Paul could build you a top-notch steel bike and a steel fork to your specifications, unless you know exactly what you want for everything, I think you'd be better served working with someone further to the deep-custom and fit-focused side of things... That is going to be difficult to find at $3K but you can get close. If TK was still building, I'd say go to him. Otherwise I think the Hampsten recommendation is great. Or Ellis (he has the SLX version that would be close to your budget). Or stretch and get a Kirk....downgrade some components to make the money work....upgrade down the road. Aaron at AR Cycles is also a great option for an up-n-comer at a lower price-point. Or there's Yamaguchi or Kvale or Steve Rex.

Also, RIP Rolland. He would have been the right answer here too.

[charliedid]

I didn't think you could get into an Ellis for under $3500 frame/fork?

Excellent choice however :)

[gibbo]

http://www.cherubim.jp/bikes/
Have a look at Cherubim bikes, made in Japan, and really nice as well. To many bike to choose from!!!!! :)

[brook_63]

Clean39T for sure if I was in the market for lugged!

Don't know what the OP's preferences are, but if it is a clean Tig design than save some $ and have a builder who can build you what you ask for- Paul can surely do that.

[colker]

I see a lot of bikes costing way more than a Lobster being sold on classifieds. I have never heard anything less than "superb" about Lobsters. They are riders. They are not made for medals on bike salons or haute couture of cycling forums. No fluff. Lobsters are fun, fast and dialed. I would get an aluminum Lobster just because.. A pair of practical light and stiff wheels and go on w/ my business. Within budget and reasonable timelines.

[Peter P.]

The OP asked if Rock Lobster's current prices are still low.

Yes.

$1750 for a CUSTOM, TIG welded steel frame, from a builder of such extensive experience, is a bargain. Even after adding a carbon, or custom steel fork, it's still a bargain.

I read the PEZ Cycling review they referenced. Aluminum welds are typically "lumpy" unless a second, cosmetic weld pass is made, or if the welds are finish filed/sanded. Leave 'em raw and you save money. Steel frames typically use a smaller diameter welding rod and result in a smaller bead.

Also, I agree with the review where Paul says his best handling bike has a 72 degree, 30 minute (72.5 degree) headtube. My best handling bike has the same head angle, with a 45mm fork rake. And from the review; I don't think 41.5cm chainstays are long. My custom steel road frame has 42cm chainstays I wouldn't know they were long, or affected the quality of the ride.

[weaponsgrade]

Never heard of Barco but I've got two Rock Lobsters. I'll echo the other comments about Paul's style being no fuss tig'd frames. He's not the one I'd go to if I was looking for lugs, custom touches, or other embellishments. He rides, races, and has years of experience. At his prices, I think his frames are about the most under valued you can get for tig. Since he's somewhat local to me, I met him to get fitted and go over the details. He's old school. There's no video capture system, fit/photo studio, or lengthy survey asking you rate a laundry list of ride characteristics. But he builds using all the latest steels (except stainless) and to all modern standards.

[Clean39T]

I didn't think you could get into an Ellis for under $3500 frame/fork?



Excellent choice however :)https://www.elliscycles.com/strada-road-34

Strada SLX for $2850.

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[dustyrider]

I say look for a used Rock Lobster, they come up pretty regularly in these parts, and spend the extra money on a vacation when this thing is all over.

I have no personal experience with either brand you're considering.
I just think that riding a bike is way more fun than buying one! :banana:

[fogrider]

get a lobster and spend what you saved on the lightest wheels you can buy! I have 2 lobsters...a road lobster and a dirt lobster, they are great bikes to ride!

[one60]

While deciding on the frame material is a major step, there are many talented custom or handmade steel frame builders out in world. I'd recommend you look here and on Velocipede Salon to see what resonates, then reach out to owners and the builders until you find one that is a good match. Your budget allows you a lot of options, enjoy the journey!

[dvnzzz]

From my personal experience living in Singapore...yes it is.

Not just sea-related concern but humidity, monsoon season, regular afternoon showers, change of weather.

I can tell you this...if you dent, scratch or scrape off any paint, down to the bare metal, it will rust within a week...in Singapore, yes.

So you're saying if riding in Singapore, go XCR/titanium, and if going with normal steel, take extra precaution?

No concern at all. Steel rusts, but unless you really neglect your bike it won't cause you any problems. Coat the inside of the frame with framesaver if it puts your mind at ease, but it's not necessary.

Cool, seems like an easy job. How often do yáll do this framesaver thing? Does it require a full stripdown?

https://velo-orange.com/pages/how-to-use-frame-saver

[dvnzzz]

I say look for a used Rock Lobster, they come up pretty regularly in these parts, and spend the extra money on a vacation when this thing is all over.

I have no personal experience with either brand you're considering.
I just think that riding a bike is way more fun than buying one! :banana:

Good idea!

Rock Lobster with smaller diameter (i.e. not OS) tubes, 1&1/8th head tube and a curved blade steel fork.

Or a Ritchey Road Logic if you wanted to save some time and money and jump straight in to steel.

urgh I'd like this but if I were going that route, I would most definitely go for the Barco sort of bike. It's actually pretty hard to find a Rock Lobster road bike in full steel + steel fork..

Have you considered high-end alu? LOW, rock lobster, Weis

Was looking at them, Weis is interesting with their seatstays. But I would go for steel now. It was the whole reason of intending to change bikes: "to try something new" haha

"Thanks, I was just reading your post about powder coats and then you replied here! Seems like you really love your Lobster! I read a review about his bike and the reviewer critiqued about some parts of the welding but it was by no means a bad review: https://pezcyclingnews.com/latestnews/rock-lobster-a-statement-bike/"

Well, I actually owned that pez bike for a while, so I know what I am talking about.

That particular build was an Aluminum bike- you are not going to get Moots like welding with Tig aluminum.

Having owned 4+ of Paul's frames (steel), along with Gunnars, Steelmans, De Salvo's, the Rock Lobster's welds are with the best of them- period!

So, having said that, Paul's frames are a bargain, on time and look very nice, remember you are choosing the details. Paint, head tube size, all of it if you wish.
Get your fit dialed, talk to Paul about where you ride, riding style, terrain, your personal characteristics, weight etc..., and get out of your own way. Paul knows what to do!

I hear you, thanks for clarifying. I was speed reading tru that article and didn't realize it was an alum frame. I like what I hear about Paul. I'll ponder over it for a while. See where my heart leads me to haha. But yeah first, Imma go get a bike fit!

[dvnzzz]

https://www.elliscycles.com/strada-road-34

Strada SLX for $2850.

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Geez, another beauty!

http://www.cherubim.jp/bikes/
Have a look at Cherubim bikes, made in Japan, and really nice as well. To many bike to choose from!!!!! :)

headache...haha

I wouldn't go with either. And here's why. If you want to experience something unique and different, and that is what is driving you to try steel, then you should be looking at a steel frame and fork, custom made for you, that fits you well from a balance and COG perspective and meets your preferred riding style. Carbon forks on steel bikes are a compromise - I've ridden enough to know. And while Paul could build you a top-notch steel bike and a steel fork to your specifications, unless you know exactly what you want for everything, I think you'd be better served working with someone further to the deep-custom and fit-focused side of things... That is going to be difficult to find at $3K but you can get close. If TK was still building, I'd say go to him. Otherwise I think the Hampsten recommendation is great. Or Ellis (he has the SLX version that would be close to your budget). Or stretch and get a Kirk....downgrade some components to make the money work....upgrade down the road. Aaron at AR Cycles is also a great option for an up-n-comer at a lower price-point. Or there's Yamaguchi or Kvale or Steve Rex.

Also, RIP Rolland. He would have been the right answer here too.


Right, I'd go with the full steel build if I went with Barco. Was thinking of going for a more OS looked w an enve fork if I go with Paul. So, you're saying to really experience steel, you're recommending a steel fork as well yeah? I don't want to go too custom as its my first and pretty much an exploratory phase for me.

Yes, well, had one. Had to part with it to make room for something else, but it was a fantastic bike. Full details here:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=167566

Thanks, nice bike! I like the seafoam color. I would go for a matching stem and fork color as well.

I like both companies, but I would go Cicli Barco XCr.

My $0.02, but I am biased; I had Barco build me one a couple years ago. Fantastic ride. I chose XCr Max tubing, Columbus Futura fork. They are very easy to work with. Took a while to get, but it was well worth it. Some of the delay was waiting for the tubing from Columbus, and a few holidays here and there.

Nice. What made you pick the columbus fork over their VIVA stainless fork?

Never heard of Barco but I've got two Rock Lobsters. I'll echo the other comments about Paul's style being no fuss tig'd frames. He's not the one I'd go to if I was looking for lugs, custom touches, or other embellishments. He rides, races, and has years of experience. At his prices, I think his frames are about the most under valued you can get for tig. Since he's somewhat local to me, I met him to get fitted and go over the details. He's old school. There's no video capture system, fit/photo studio, or lengthy survey asking you rate a laundry list of ride characteristics. But he builds using all the latest steels (except stainless) and to all modern standards.

Cool, PICS? :)

While deciding on the frame material is a major step, there are many talented custom or handmade steel frame builders out in world. I'd recommend you look here and on Velocipede Salon to see what resonates, then reach out to owners and the builders until you find one that is a good match. Your budget allows you a lot of options, enjoy the journey!

Yeah, waiting for account approval on Velocipede. Just a month back, I was an idiot and only heard of IF, Enigma and Colnagos for steel frames (At least these are the ones I normally see in Singapore).

[weisan]

So you're saying if riding in Singapore, go XCR/titanium, and if going with normal steel, take extra precaution?


I have two steel bikes while I lived in Singapore for more than 20+ years. I "babied" them, wipe down after every ride, inspect to make sure there's not chip or exposed metal prone to rust, same with the chain and the rest of the components. Just overall, more maintenance is all I am saying and if you are OK with that, by all means, get a steel frame. And clean pal is right, get a matching fork if you can afford it, it's 30-40% of the ride quality and round up the overall aesthetics. Most of my steel bikes come with their original forks, it's something I specifically look out for when I make a purchase.

At your budget, you really do have many options. So take your time. You can't go wrong either way. It's good that you recognize that you are at exploratory phase of your journey, so sit back and enjoy the process as you join the ranks and move towards N+1 in your future.

Do you ride with a group in Singapore?

Btw, if I remember correctly, David Kirk had shipped a bike or two to Singapore to some clients. If you want to see one in real life and talk to the owners about their experience, maybe get in touch with Dave pal.
Getting a Kirk is like getting a heirloom...

[R3awak3n]

This is mine -

https://i.imgur.com/D33nGFs.jpg?1


I blacked out the logos now and different wheels but if I had the choice I would have painted the fork. This bike SLAPS, its so good.

Is aluminum which is probably what I would go to Paul for again. I have to say this bike changed my mind on aluminum and it might be my favorite material right now believe it or not.



Also, I need new, better pictures of this bike ahha

[dvnzzz]

I have two steel bikes while I lived in Singapore for more than 20+ years. I "babied" them, wipe down after every ride, inspect to make sure there's not chip or exposed metal prone to rust, same with the chain and the rest of the components. Just overall, more maintenance is all I am saying and if you are OK with that, by all means, get a steel frame. And clean pal is right, get a matching fork if you can afford it, it's 30-40% of the ride quality and round up the overall aesthetics. Most of my steel bikes come with their original forks, it's something I specifically look out for when I make a purchase.

At your budget, you really do have many options. So take your time. You can't go wrong either way. It's good that you recognize that you are at exploratory phase of your journey, so sit back and enjoy the process as you join the ranks and move towards N+1 in your future.

Do you ride with a group in Singapore?

Btw, if I remember correctly, David Kirk had shipped a bike or two to Singapore to some clients. If you want to see one in real life and talk to the owners about their experience, maybe get in touch with Dave pal.
Getting a Kirk is like getting a heirloom...

Right, when you say "matching/original fork" you mean a custom steel fork right? Okay, will consider that, as mentioned previously, was thinking of getting the rock lobster as a "fast and fun" modern steel bike, so was probably going for the OS tubes and enve fork look, then when I get older and want a more relaxing ride, go for a full steel bike and fork thats more classic, with lugs and all. But I'll seriously consider going for a full steel + fork with Paul too (when going with a steel fork, normally it means thinner tubes right? If not the proportions will look weird?)


Some users mentioned that I should go full custom and try out stuff by Kirk, Ellis and some of the more artisonal, bespoke builds but I feel I'm not there yet. I want to experience something a little more midrange then when I've figured out what I really want and like, go crazy on something like a Kirk.

I think this is pretty much the dilemma I'm facing now. I considered some of the questions you asked me. Do I want to travel with it etc. And thought the rock lobster will be easier to maintain.

I'm just about to graduate and am gonna use this as graduation gift for myself. So in some sense, I want to work within a budget and not spoil myself crazy. I tell my friends I wanna get a steel bike, they all laugh at me thinking I'm some crazy hipster who wants to ride an old man's bike!

A little long winded...but my ideal would be two bikes: a racy steel w OS tubes and a classic beauty with thin tubes and 1,1/8 headtubes as one user below mentioned.

And now there's the concern of rust! I was actually about to purchase a cinelli xcr off the classifieds from one of the users here a few days back, but the shipping costs made it more expensive than I was willing to spend for something non-custom.

This is mine -

https://i.imgur.com/D33nGFs.jpg?1


I blacked out the logos now and different wheels but if I had the choice I would have painted the fork. This bike SLAPS, its so good.

Is aluminum which is probably what I would go to Paul for again. I have to say this bike changed my mind on aluminum and it might be my favorite material right now believe it or not.



Also, I need new, better pictures of this bike ahha

Very nice stuff. Haha I've set my mind on steel for a long while now so I'm not sure if I want to explore aluminium at this point. Thanks for your suggestion though.. I've recently seen some videos about magnesium bikes. Was it on a weis? Can't rmb.

Yeah share the new bike photos!!

[dvnzzz]

Hahaha, to the guys that recommended Ellis, Kirk, Hampsten...you guys...know how to spoil me. Just properly checked out Hampsten and the model Max/maglia Rosa does appeal to me. Kirk and Ellis are out of budget by a lot. The Ellis SLX does seem to be within budget too. What are your thoughts about SLX? Was speaking to Richard from Hallet cycles and he told me he could possibly build up a bike in Reynolds 753, but mentioned that it's pretty much old school 50-year-old technology, and told me to consider trying something newer like the Columbus SL.

There's something very different about the bespoke American builds vs the Italian ones. So different flavors yet all so beautiful.

Oh yeah one more question: Stainless vs normal steel (Spirit, Life, Zona, 853, 725 etc. etc.). Besides the obvious stainless properties of not rusting, I heard and read that Stainless rides similar to titanium, and is harsher than most normal steels. Which brings me back to the point of me wanting to try a steel bike. So should I just go ahead with normal steel for now since that is what I intended to do? Or is it also correct to say that stainless when built by the right builder, can ride like a classic steel bike? hahah

[colker]

So you're saying if riding in Singapore, go XCR/titanium, and if going with normal steel, take extra precaution?



Cool, seems like an easy job. How often do yáll do this framesaver thing? Does it require a full stripdown?

https://velo-orange.com/pages/how-to-use-frame-saver

I live by the bay in a city known for it´s beach life. I have four steel bikes living w/ me it´s been 20yrs.

[charliedid]

i stand corrected. Ellis Strada SLX Road - $2850

Nice

[zzy]

Oh yeah one more question: Stainless vs normal steel (Spirit, Life, Zona, 853, 725 etc. etc.). Besides the obvious stainless properties of not rusting, I heard and read that Stainless rides similar to titanium, and is harsher than most normal steels. Which brings me back to the point of me wanting to try a steel bike. So should I just go ahead with normal steel for now since that is what I intended to do? Or is it also correct to say that stainless when built by the right builder, can ride like a classic steel bike? hahah

Having both a IF SSR (XCr stainless) and Crown Jewel (OOS OX plat) I compare them as SSR riding a bit more like Aluminium but with a much more muted feel. It's also much lighter, but far more prone to dings/dents as the metal is drawn much more thinly. But man, you can do BEAUTIFUL things with stainless in terms of finishes. If you want a 'classic steel' ride lugged with conventional tubes is the way to go. If you want fast and bling, stainless is the way to go. Conventional modern TIG'd steel falls in between.

Personally, I would go with Independent Fabrication in a heartbeat for any custom steel bike, especially stainless as they do more of it than nearly anyone. For the $$ I think Marinoni is unbeatable (weak CDN$ and excellent steel options). But if it's FOB to Singapore, Europe may be faster/cheaper. Clearly budget isn't a big factor here (gotta love those Singapore salaries) so I would go with the bike that speaks most to you and will be something you want to ride forever.

[StanleySteamer]

Erik Rolf at Alliance bicycles for full custom steel or ti frames.

[charliedid]

https://www.elliscycles.com/strada-road-34

Strada SLX for $2850.

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Ah thanks. Didn't see this but did look at the site.

What a deal

[Clean39T]

Ah thanks. Didn't see this but did look at the site.



What a dealI'm heavily considering getting one - and going w a 80th SR build..

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[charliedid]

I'm heavily considering getting one - and going w a 80th SR build..

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Me too!

[dvnzzz]

I live by the bay in a city known for it´s beach life. I have four steel bikes living w/ me it´s been 20yrs.

Thanks, that's reassuring. But as @Weisan was saying, it could be due to Singapore's weather/climate as well. I like to think that the quality of paintwork is also important in this case?

Having both a IF SSR (XCr stainless) and Crown Jewel (OOS OX plat) I compare them as SSR riding a bit more like Aluminium but with a much more muted feel. It's also much lighter, but far more prone to dings/dents as the metal is drawn much more thinly. But man, you can do BEAUTIFUL things with stainless in terms of finishes. If you want a 'classic steel' ride lugged with conventional tubes is the way to go. If you want fast and bling, stainless is the way to go. Conventional modern TIG'd steel falls in between.

Personally, I would go with Independent Fabrication in a heartbeat for any custom steel bike, especially stainless as they do more of it than nearly anyone. For the $$ I think Marinoni is unbeatable (weak CDN$ and excellent steel options). But if it's FOB to Singapore, Europe may be faster/cheaper. Clearly budget isn't a big factor here (gotta love those Singapore salaries) so I would go with the bike that speaks most to you and will be something you want to ride forever.

Heh, sent the Singapore distributor an email. I drew out a list of 20 frame manufactures and emailed at least 10. After corresponding with them, the ones that got me excited were Rock Lobster, Barco and Devlin Cycles (A very new framebuilder based in Australia). I guess after this whole post, i'm gonna start populating that list and reconsider my options again!

Anyway, budget is a big factor. I just prefer to get a good one that will last me for years to come without me having the itch in between haha. Works out to be better in the long run I feel.

Erik Rolf at Alliance bicycles for full custom steel or ti frames.

Very cool stuff, I like how their website puts out all the info I need. I've heard of his wheels before I think, never knew he built frames as well.

Ah thanks. Didn't see this but did look at the site.

What a deal

I'm gonna consider this piece as well. Looks dope.

Check out this link: http://bhovey.com/Masi/Scans/BicycleGuide/pages/87_03Steel1.htm It's a blind test between two steel frames. Pretty interesting read.

I was corresponding by email with Richard from Hallet cycles (Anyone heard or ride his bikes?). Pretty cool guy. Apparently he may have access to NOS Reynolds 753, but he did tell me that it is what it is and that it is a 50-year-old technology. He recommended me to try the newer Columbus SL which has the same strength as the 753, but can be brazed and welded without any loss of strength, unlike the 753 which requires silver solder to avoid overheating and weakening of the metal.

He also said this "The same Niobium alloy is used in Spirit and Life tubesets. The latter has slightly thinner tube walls. TBH, there's not a huge weight difference between these and Zona, which is a cromoly steel - maybe 100g overall difference. More important is to choose tube diameters suited to rider weight and the use the bike will see. The smaller tube sizes of SL will mean a more flexible frame than one built using standard contemporary tube sizes or larger. We can discuss all this further if you decide to proceed. The exact recommendation will depend on your weight, rider goals and budget ( Life, Spirit and SL are lighter, more expensive tubesets than Zona)."

Thought this was good information which kinda answered my questions posted on this thread.

[Jeff N.]

I love my RL Aluminum...... but if your thing is perfect, end-to-end , dimes-lying-side-by-side weld beads, then you will be highly disappointed. With a Rock Lobster aluminum frame, that is simply something you must look past and just appreciate the sublime ride quality.

[Waldo62]

I have two steel Lobsters and a third in the pipeline. One is a fat-tired all-road, the other is a very light and racy bike. Both are fantastic. The third will be a more traditional lugged steel frame. I've long wanted a lugged Lobster. In my opinion, Paul's workmanship is impeccable, and the bikes ride magnificently.

High end tubing? Please, riding you'll never be able to tell the difference between two otherwise identical frames built from different tubes. Besides, why do you think that Paul won't build with "high-end" tubing?

[dvnzzz]

I have two Lobsters and a third in the pipeline. That's all you should need to know about my opinion of Paul's workmanship and the bikes' ride.

High end tubing? Please, you'll never be able to tell the difference between two otherwise identical frames built from different tubes, and whatever makes you think that Paul won't build with "high-end" tubing?

I love my RL Aluminum...... but if your thing is perfect, end-to-end , dimes-lying-side-by-side weld beads, then you will be highly disappointed. With a Rock Lobster aluminum frame, that is simply something you must look past and just appreciate the sublime ride quality.

Hey guys, able to share your builds? I haven't seen a Lobster in thin tubings and a steel fork!

[brook_63]

Light, strong and reasonably inexpensive.
Fits, 33c Jack Browns if I want to do most trails in CA.
I like standover and not 10cm of drop anymore. Never let me down nor looks dirty, and rides super!

[Waldo62]

Hey guys, able to share your builds? I haven't seen a Lobster in thin tubings and a steel fork!

The hot pink all-road bike has a steel fork. The lighter/faster one has a carbon fork and that fork's steerer is shorter now. The seat post and the wheels are different now too.

[Peter P.]

Oh, and another thing about Paul Sadoff and Rock Lobster-he builds stems, too!

I had my ATB frame, featured earlier, built by Paul.

When I had a new road frame built, I went with another builder only because I like variety.

That builder closed shop, and sometime afterward I wanted a custom stem, color matched to my road frame.

I asked Paul at Rock Lobster if he could/would build a stem for me.

Yes!

Here again, the price was incredibly affordable, and the finished product was a joy to behold. (Notice the tidy welds!)

I also want to ad I think the OP is overthinking the tubing choice. Let the builder choose. I can't imagine anyone can tell the difference between brands and models. In fact, on all three custom frames I own, there are no tubing decals, indicating the builder may have mix 'n matched tubes.

[dvnzzz]

Light, strong and reasonably inexpensive.
Fits, 33c Jack Browns if I want to do most trails in CA.
I like standover and not 10cm of drop anymore. Never let me down nor looks dirty, and rides super!

The hot pink all-road bike has a steel fork. The lighter/faster one has a carbon fork and that fork's steerer is shorter now. The seat post and the wheels are different now too.

Oh, and another thing about Paul Sadoff and Rock Lobster-he builds stems, too!

I had my ATB frame, featured earlier, built by Paul.

When I had a new road frame built, I went with another builder only because I like variety.

That builder closed shop, and sometime afterward I wanted a custom stem, color matched to my road frame.

I asked Paul at Rock Lobster if he could/would build a stem for me.

Yes!

Here again, the price was incredibly affordable, and the finished product was a joy to behold. (Notice the tidy welds!)

I also want to ad I think the OP is overthinking the tubing choice. Let the builder choose. I can't imagine anyone can tell the difference between brands and models. In fact, on all three custom frames I own, there are no tubing decals, indicating the builder may have mix 'n matched tubes.


Thanks guys for all your comments. I'm more certain of what I want now and am gonna take some time to reconsider all my options again. I think Rock Lobster, Steve Rex, Hampsten, the Ellis Strada SLX and possibly Fat Chance are what interests me. Gonna go for full steel :)

[jc031699]

Another Rock Lobster (https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f11/rock-lobster-28371.html) owner here.

I don't know where you got your information from regarding Paul's welding, but the weld beads on my frame are near-invisible.

He is fabulous to deal with. His prices are TOO low! His turnaround is pretty accurate and short, too.

Get one. If you want to make it "more exclusive", ask Paul to build the frame with one of his monostay rear ends, which he usually reserves for his mountain bikes.


He has a Facebook page. He seems to work super efficiently, with a new frame every few days (less than a week). The welds all look beautiful to my untrained eye.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jc031699]

"Thanks, I was just reading your post about powder coats and then you replied here! Seems like you really love your Lobster! I read a review about his bike and the reviewer critiqued about some parts of the welding but it was by no means a bad review: https://pezcyclingnews.com/latestnews/rock-lobster-a-statement-bike/"

Well, I actually owned that pez bike for a while, so I know what I am talking about.

That particular build was an Aluminum bike- you are not going to get Moots like welding with Tig aluminum.

Having owned 4+ of Paul's frames (steel), along with Gunnars, Steelmans, De Salvo's, the Rock Lobster's welds are with the best of them- period!

So, having said that, Paul's frames are a bargain, on time and look very nice, remember you are choosing the details. Paint, head tube size, all of it if you wish.
Get your fit dialed, talk to Paul about where you ride, riding style, terrain, your personal characteristics, weight etc..., and get out of your own way. Paul knows what to do!


Didn’t know that about TIG aluminum welds, totally makes sense. I have an aluminum Peg from Dario’s early days, presumably by his hand, and the welds are chunky/irregular.


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[dvnzzz]

I've ridden enough to know. And while Paul could build you a top-notch steel bike and a steel fork to your specifications, unless you know exactly what you want for everything, I think you'd be better served working with someone further to the deep-custom and fit-focused side of things... That is going to be difficult to find at $3K but you can get close. If TK was still building, I'd say go to him. Otherwise I think the Hampsten recommendation is great. Or Ellis (he has the SLX version that would be close to your budget). Or stretch and get a Kirk....downgrade some components to make the money work....upgrade down the road. Aaron at AR Cycles is also a great option for an up-n-comer at a lower price-point. Or there's Yamaguchi or Kvale or Steve Rex.


Hey Clean, just wanted to clarify something which you mentioned. You mentioned that unless I know what I want for everything, I should instead try builders that are "further to the deep custom and fit-focused side of things"

Is that a typo or am I not understanding you correctly. Wouldn't deep custom make it harder since there are more variables at hand?

Thanks for ur advice!

[mhespenheide]

Hey Clean, just wanted to clarify something which you mentioned. You mentioned that unless I know what I want for everything, I should instead try builders that are "further to the deep custom and fit-focused side of things"

Is that a typo or am I not understanding you correctly. Wouldn't deep custom make it harder since there are more variables at hand?

Thanks for ur advice!

Paul is a great welder, but not necessarily a guru on fit. Ideally, you already know your fit or want some pretty small changes to an existing bike.

If you don't know your fit or feel like you're open to modifying your fit, you want to go with someone who knows how to fit you and manipulate the frame's geometry to make your measurements match the ride qualities you're looking for. Tom Kellog was probably the gold standard of this before he retired.

[Clean39T]

Paul is a great welder, but not necessarily a guru on fit. Ideally, you already know your fit or want some pretty small changes to an existing bike.

If you don't know your fit or feel like you're open to modifying your fit, you want to go with someone who knows how to fit you and manipulate the frame's geometry to make your measurements match the ride qualities you're looking for. Tom Kellog was probably the gold standard of this before he retired.

It's possible we hang out too much :beer: - spot on.. ^^^

And not just measurements but where you carry your weight (your personal COG so to speak), what type of riding most lights you up (climbing vs. flats), etc.

Paul also is a great guy to support, he's done so much for the sport, and continues to support local racing and racers. Ultimately though, it's your dollars, and you just pick the experience you want and what you value and want to be a part of. There really is no right answer....just your answer. Cyclist, know thyself.

[flying]

There is a new Cinelli XCr in the classifieds section now in Medium

I have always read that they are actually built by Cicli Barco & looking at them I tend to believe it

In any case if its your size the price seems quite good & it is beautiful ;)
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=249369

PS: not affiliated or know the owner just happened to see it & this thread

[dvnzzz]

It's possible we hang out too much [emoji481] - spot on.. ^^^

And not just measurements but where you carry your weight (your personal COG so to speak), what type of riding most lights you up (climbing vs. flats), etc.

Paul also is a great guy to support, he's done so much for the sport, and continues to support local racing and racers. Ultimately though, it's your dollars, and you just pick the experience you want and what you value and want to be a part of. There really is no right answer....just your answer. Cyclist, know thyself.

Thanks, makes sense. Paul looks like he's really well loved by the community!

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[dvnzzz]

There is a new Cinelli XCr in the classifieds section now in Medium

I have always read that they are actually built by Cicli Barco & looking at them I tend to believe it

In any case if its your size the price seems quite good & it is beautiful ;)
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=249369

PS: not affiliated or know the owner just happened to see it & this threadHey yeah! It is a good deal. Was actually going to purchase the frameset from him last week but decided not to as the shipping and taxes made it at a similar pricing to barco. I think it's a good deal for anyone in the states though. He seems like a nice guy too.

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[majorpat]

Are we still talking about this?! Order a Rock Lobster already.

[dvnzzz]

Are we still talking about this?! Order a Rock Lobster already.

haha! I shall take my time to think it through. Too many options, but it helps that I roughly understand what I want now!:banana:

[macgee]

Thanks, makes sense. Paul looks like he's really well loved by the community!

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Another huge +1 for Paul/Rock Lobster. My first frame from him was his #11 (1986-ish) and have had several others since then. I highly recommend Paul, the amount of knowledge & talent he has is vast and very understated, he use to work with Keith Bontrager when Kieth had a frame building shop in the back of his house. They made frames together and came up with amazing gear including re-rolling 700c mavic MA-40 rims down to 26" which was a first and ended up becoming the standard in mountain biking racing, I was lucky to get one of the first sets. I would give my first child to get that bike back even though it had a Suntour XC rear roller cam brake (it was my choice). The fillets were incredible.

Paul has never stopped and one of his specialities is hiding all the tricks of his trade inside the frame and his frames today are amazing. I seriously doubt any other frame builder you consider has as much knowledge or experience as Kieth. It's money worth spending.

[weisan]

dvn pal, can you post a picture of your current bike Storck Fenomalis?

[dvnzzz]

Here! I think the set up is not ideal currently. Need to move the saddle back a little and use a shorter stem. It's currently on a 120mm stem.

[weisan]

Here! I think the set up is not ideal currently. Need to move the saddle back a little and use a shorter stem. It's currently on a 120mm stem.

It's a beautiful bike. I am sucker for white bikes. Thank you for posting it.

So why don't you experiment with a shorter stem to see how that feels?

Have you test ridden a steel bike before?

[dvnzzz]

It's a beautiful bike. I am sucker for white bikes. Thank you for posting it.

So why don't you experiment with a shorter stem to see how that feels?

Have you test ridden a steel bike before?

Thanks, yeah I will. I used to be more comfortable with this set up when I was riding more frequently but since university started, I have been cycling on-off mostly on weekends so I think I'm less flexible.

I will sell this off once I get my new bike. But yeah, I haven't tried a steel bike before. All my friends are on carbon.

[dvnzzz]

Are we still talking about this?! Order a Rock Lobster already.

Another huge +1 for Paul/Rock Lobster. My first frame from him was his #11 (1986-ish) and have had several others since then. I highly recommend Paul, the amount of knowledge & talent he has is vast and very understated, he use to work with Keith Bontrager when Kieth had a frame building shop in the back of his house. They made frames together and came up with amazing gear including re-rolling 700c mavic MA-40 rims down to 26" which was a first and ended up becoming the standard in mountain biking racing, I was lucky to get one of the first sets. I would give my first child to get that bike back even though it had a Suntour XC rear roller cam brake (it was my choice). The fillets were incredible.

Paul has never stopped and one of his specialities is hiding all the tricks of his trade inside the frame and his frames today are amazing. I seriously doubt any other frame builder you consider has as much knowledge or experience as Kieth. It's money worth spending.


I like what i hear about the Lobsters but I have to account for shipping, tax etc. which brings the price up. But I still really like the whole lobster branding and how everyone is really behind Paul, does say a lot!

Gonna take some time to consider before i make a decision :) :banana:

..and i'm also gonna camp at the classifieds for a road steel lobster and fork. I'm a size 54-55 so anybody wanna sell their lobsters, hit me up!!!

[weisan]

So incidentally, when I was studying engineering at NTU in Singapore, I had my first "real" road bike which was a white italian lugged steel Olmo. I would ride it all over the island. Good times.

https://condorino.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/olmo.jpg

The reason I suggest that you test ride a steel bike is because it gives a "different" feel to a carbon bike, not good or bad, just different and if you haven't tried it before, the first time you get on it, you might be caught by surprise.

[dvnzzz]

Very classy ride! Was there already that "climb" up the medicine faculty during your time?

Yeah, I want to try a different ride. I'll check out some of the LBS when this whole covid thing ends...

[weisan]

So the medical school didn't exist at that time but the road is already there Nanyang Dr...oh gosh, that felt like a lifetime ago. Too bad you are so far away, I got a whole bunch of steel bikes in 54cm range that I will be happy to let you test ride.

[Jeff N.]

haha! I shall take my time to think it through. Too many options, but it helps that I roughly understand what I want now!:banana:Just one suggestion...know your numbers (angles, tube lengths, BB drop, etc.) beforehand. Makes the process MUCH easier.

[weisan]

My last piece of advice...more like an observation than an advice.

If you stick around here long enough, you will notice a stark difference in the way we cyclists describe "bikes, bike fits, equipment etc" and ...framebuilders, people who built these bikes.

It's okay to be passionate about what we like and what we do, it's part of the fun.

But if you need more of an "objective" assessment of things, listen carefully to what some of the astute framebuilders are saying on this forum. We are lucky that quite a number of them participate in this community. They tend to play down a lot of the "superlatives" and "mystics" we like to associate with our bikes. In my 34 years of riding, I have come closer to the "experience" that some of these framebuilders were talking about.

Bikes are fun...but they are not some mysterious, complicated machines. They are actually quite simple. They are one of human's greatest inventions. As much as bike companies like to sell their product with "differentiation" in their marketing material, the truth is when it comes down to it...it's a frame sitting on a pair of wheels with a human perching on top and unless this chap turns the pedal, this thing doesn't move itself...no mater how high tech it is, or how lightweight it is, or how road dampening it is...it doesn't matter. As the operator and the primary engine, we are still the ultimate limiting factor. So, the biggest bang for your buck is to spend more time and energy working on yourself, to further enhance your capabilities on the bike, to cross over your limits - the more fun you will get out of riding. But that's not necessarily what we want to hear. It's so much easier to just throw money into the pit and get "enhanced" in our riding experience.

Bike fit is important...but they are not rocket science. After a while, if you have been paying attention to yourself while riding and experimenting on your own, you will come to figure out what works for you. The key idea is to understand that as humans, we are not static object. We change over time, our body does. And we need to adapt accordingly. Don't just run around with a set of fixed numbers. Those numbers will change ever so slightly over time. You need to know what you are dealing with. Get to the ballpark and then work from there.

[grateful]

not an expert but I have found that raising the nose of the saddle will help keep your weight planted on your sit bones. Initially it was counter-intuitive but it made a huge difference.

Here! I think the set up is not ideal currently. Need to move the saddle back a little and use a shorter stem. It's currently on a 120mm stem.

[dvnzzz]

Just one suggestion...know your numbers (angles, tube lengths, BB drop, etc.) beforehand. Makes the process MUCH easier.

Yup, will take note! Currently reading Greg Lemonds "Complete book of bicycling" for fun haha!

My last piece of advice...more like an observation than an advice.

If you stick around here long enough, you will notice a stark difference in the way we cyclists describe "bikes, bike fits, equipment etc" and ...framebuilders, people who built these bikes.

It's okay to be passionate about what we like and what we do, it's part of the fun.

But if you need more of an "objective" assessment of things, listen carefully to what some of the astute framebuilders are saying on this forum. We are lucky that quite a number of them participate in this community. They tend to play down a lot of the "superlatives" and "mystics" we like to associate with our bikes. In my 34 years of riding, I have come closer to the "experience" that some of these framebuilders were talking about.

Bikes are fun...but they are not some mysterious, complicated machines. They are actually quite simple. They are one of human's greatest inventions. As much as bike companies like to sell their product with "differentiation" in their marketing material, the truth is when it comes down to it...it's a frame sitting on a pair of wheels with a human perching on top and unless this chap turns the pedal, this thing doesn't move itself...no mater how high tech it is, or how lightweight it is, or how road dampening it is...it doesn't matter. As the operator and the primary engine, we are still the ultimate limiting factor. So, the biggest bang for your buck is to spend more time and energy working on yourself, to further enhance your capabilities on the bike, to cross over your limits - the more fun you will get out of riding. But that's not necessarily what we want to hear. It's so much easier to just throw money into the pit and get "enhanced" in our riding experience.

Bike fit is important...but they are not rocket science. After a while, if you have been paying attention to yourself while riding and experimenting on your own, you will come to figure out what works for you. The key idea is to understand that as humans, we are not static object. We change over time, our body does. And we need to adapt accordingly. Don't just run around with a set of fixed numbers. Those numbers will change ever so slightly over time. You need to know what you are dealing with. Get to the ballpark and then work from there.

Thank you so much. Definitely agree with you. I have been getting lazy and cutting down on the number of rides the past year and a half mostly due to increasing workload at university. Had injuries here and there as well from football. But everytime i get back on my bike, it puts a smile on my face. I decided to reward myself with a new bike since I was supposed to go on a gradtrip but it got cancelled... so...yeah :banana:Also, ever since I started reading about steel bikes, I feel like I've rekindled that excitement that I used to have in cycling. I have been watching the Paris Roubaix 2016 highlights every other day...I can't think of any race that has inspired me like that.

I will definitely get a bike fit done once this virus dies down. But I'll experiment with my current set up again. I used to be more flexible cause I was a lot fitter probably. You're right, I don't wanna be throwing money just cause. Thanks for your advice, and I would love to have the opportunity to try some of your steel bikes :)

not an expert but I have found that raising the nose of the saddle will help keep your weight planted on your sit bones. Initially it was counter-intuitive but it made a huge difference.

I actually feel very comfortable on my sit bones with the saddle tilted like that. In fact, with the Astute saddle, I never really felt my ass being sore ever again, unless it was a long long ride. But will take note, I do think its a bit too angled down

[soulspinner]

not an expert but I have found that raising the nose of the saddle will help keep your weight planted on your sit bones. Initially it was counter-intuitive but it made a huge difference.

+1 also helps keep hands from numbness.

[2000m2]

I haven't read all 7 pages here, but another vote for Rock Lobster from me!
I currently have a steel road bike from Paul and previously road an aluminum frame he built, which I just sold. I'd have kept it if I had the space. His bikes are great and he's a good guy too. Even in the SF Bay Area, I've only ever seen one other one out of the road. My other ride currently is a steel Italian frame (Pegoretti), which is fantastic as well, but I am not familiar with Cicli Barco.
I have a feeling you'll be happy with either frame!

[Escarabajo]

I actually emailed Paul this week and learned the current waitlist is a whole year :crap: