First post-Dario Ciavete I've seen

[cgolvin]

I'm sure others have appeared, but this is the first one I noticed -- Ciavete Responsorium with a 2020 date on the chainstay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dario-Pegoretti-Responsorium-Frameset-ciavete-54cm/153890287862).

I'm generally a fan of ciavete and mostly like this one with a few minor quibbles.

[Tickdoc]

yeah, I just think they should not do any ciavete now. That one looks more like a Paul Smith homage than something Dario would come up with.

[seanile]

https://dariopegoretti.com/album/ciavete/

dario somehow created real depth compared to that attempt above...i'd be so disappointed if i were the customer :/

[thwart]

That paint/artwork is not working for me.

An example of the master's style...

[OtayBW]

Personally, that EB paint job is not a 'free-form' design and requires considerable skill and detail to make it look right. For me, it just looks sloppy execution...

[choke]

It doesn't thrill me but I don't think it's that bad either. There was a period several years ago, maybe 6 months long, where nearly all the Ciavetes that Dario did were in a somewhat similar style. I remember that I was glad that I didn't order one during that time period as I was not thrilled with what he was turning out then. I did a quick search to try to find an example but I didn't have any luck.

[Waldo62]

Wow, talk about a kitchen sink approach to frame paint...

[rallizes]

I think it is a mistake to try and carry on with Dario style paint.

It's a lot harder than it looks.

[prototoast]

Trying to do something artistic can be hit or miss, no matter who the artist is. And sometimes what is viewed as nothing special at the time can be seen as a masterpiece in retrospect. I think it's cool for anyone to try doing something like this. It's not surprising that people who were exceptionally fond of Dario's work would not immediately be receptive to this, but give them time, let them try, and maybe we can look forward to something really special.

[eBAUMANN]

that isnt even an attempt to replicate dario's style...thats just something else entirely...the term "kid art" comes to mind...

[Hilltopperny]

I really like the Ciavete schemes that I have seen previously and I understand giving it a shot, but Dario was the man and this one just doesn't do it for me.

[scoobydrew]

That paint/artwork is not working for me.

An example of the master's style...

Yowza that paint scheme is fantastic. Love the colors and the contrast of the brighter colors against the relatively duller gray and white.

[BertoBerg]

Beautiful bike! Just a tiny bit out of my price range....

[Velocipede]

I think it's interesting that a lot of it isn't paint, it's markers. You can really see it in the drive side photo, the section from the headtube to the cable stop on the downtube. The lighter blue color. That's a marker. The green on the fork is as well. I noticed other sections as well.

I kind of like it. I personally wouldn't want that one. But I like it. I like the one in the thread(thwart posted) better and would buy that one over this.

[sonicCows]

Does anyone actually know whether ciavete frames were actually done by Dario himself versus his staff? My hunch is that he had a say in all of them but most of it was done by the shop paint staff. Obviously without his input the style will stray, but I'm doubtful he actually painted them himself, which could be why the shop staff felt comfortable continuing the tradition.

Either way, with a niche product like this buyers would know what to expect–buying a frame from the workshop of a master after the master has passed, some kinks should be expected.

[cgolvin]

Yowza that paint scheme is fantastic. Love the colors and the contrast of the brighter colors against the relatively duller gray and white.

This comment, and viewing the gallery, made me realize what doesn't work for me in the one I pointed at to start the thread: there is hardly any of the background white in the main triangle. The stays and fork have a nice balance of color but not the main tubes. The ones that really sing have a dominant base color that the rest of the color plays off of.

I would like to see more photos of the La Gazzetta dello Sport pink one.

[ahsere]

Dario's style was brilliant in its whimsical, avant-garde unpredictability, but in every example I've seen there seems to be some method to his madness, and that contrast/tension is what makes them so appealing. This on the other hand looks like someone trying too hard to replicate something that is by definition inimitable. I'm sure the bike itself must ride great, but the artistry is not there, at least in the eye of this beholder.

[radsmd]

My responsorium from the crew.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200407/0b6502137b6a95fd97c5b4e5c8f4641f.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dino Suegiù]

When one watches the videos of Pegoretti himself painting, the movements, the application, the pressure, the color selection and location, are all fast, fluid, easy. The "Ciavete" frames he painted (even if others helped) all evidence that.

He had high mastery of the technique, knew what he wanted, could react and improvise calmly and logically, and he obviously had great confidence.

This (post #1) paint job, even though done by the atelier that knew him better than anyone else, is awkward, stuttering, looks completely lacking in confidence. It is pretty hideous, and the pseudo-Paul Smith-homage comparison is apt, in a bad way.

Bottega Pegoretti should keep the stenciled paint schemes, even invent new ones, but they should definitely retire the "Ciavete" forever. It makes absolutely no sense now.

[Polyglot]

I look at this from quite a different point of view. Dario, over the last few years of his life, after overcoming cancer, had a very optimistic and happy outlook. He wanted to live life to his fullest and that is what he did (likely to his personal detriment). His painting showed the same.

I have seen a number of new post-Dario Ciavete paint jobs and don't see anything technically wrong with any of them, but they tend to be dominated by a darkness that I believe reflects the sentiments of some of the people working there now. The first frames immediately after his death were about as dark as you could imagine, as time went by, they seemed to become a bit more hopeful and with at least some lightness returning. This frame was painted on March 18th, at about the apex of the current health crises in Italy and will necessarily reflect some of the gloom and doom that reigns in Italy. Give it some time and I believe that the Ciavete paint jobs will return to shine and to comment on the skill of execution and or final result is unfair and uncalled for. These paint schemes reflect their time and I believe that a happier and more optimistic future will bring back the optimism seen under Dario.

[dan_hudson]

Tough crowd! Before generally judging the current Ciavete schemes, one should look at the Peg Instagram feed (https://www.instagram.com/dariopegoretti/) - there are some very nice recent examples.

Never met the builder as some here have but from press after his passing it seems like there is every indication the intention was for the business to be a continuing effort w/ staff and not a shuttered one-man shop. Got to think this extends to paint. I'd guess he would smile knowing cyclists continue to be interested in riding bikes he had a hand in developing (form + appearance) + that it meant his team is paying their bills.

FWIW, I am a Peg owner (2009 Responsorium w/ Ciavete).

[e-RICHIE]

I spent 10 days with Pietro and Christine in middle December and have no question that they are continuing on the path mapped out by Dario. He’s gone. They’re here. They are Pegoretti Cicli now. Dario would approve.

ps

arrange disorder

;);):)
:p:p;)
:):):cool:

[rallizes]

I spent 10 days with Pietro and Christine in middle December and have no question that they are continuing on the path mapped out by Dario. He’s gone. They’re here. They are Pegoretti Cicli now. Dario would approve.

ps

arrange disorder

;);):)
:p:p;)
:):):cool:

Dario might approve but it is still different now and I think he might agree that it is different

[charliedid]

Raise your hand if you have been wow'd by every Ciavete that Dario did over the years. My hand is not raised but I beg you to go look at the Instagram feed and look at current work.

I'm not worried.

[pdmtong]

It's ciavete. you get what you get. one of kind.
Same as the Speedvagen "surprise me" when it truly was a surprise.

He certainly went through periods where the paint styles were "similar"

I used to think of mine as too simple. But look closer. Yes, it looks like a 5yo could do it until you realize that a 5yo really couldn't do it. Mine is old enough that he did the paint. I like that.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200407/608e3264ffe38f95ebcc0c1afada6025.jpg

[e-RICHIE]

Dario might approve but it is still different now and I think he might agree that it is different

That makes sense.

[R3awak3n]

Just because some don't like it does not mean its bad. I personally don't like it but I also did not a like a lot of Dario's paint jobs and some I loved so this is 1 of the new crew that might not appeal to some of us but I am sure some will be great.

Actual... radsmd that posted above is really nice.


Yes, Dario was awesome but the current Pegoretti is also awesome.

[Mike V]

All things are the same to me with one thing that is gone. The geometry, tubing and manufacturing of the frame are exactly the same before he passed. His personal touch on the ciavete is gone. Now they paint with the spirit of Dario.

[schwa86]

I own one of darios, I agree this looks different than those I have seen, but I fall on the side of the OP — I’m glad someone is trying to do something unique, I appreciate the work to keep the legacy alive, and I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they learned important lessons along the way about how to make it work and produce great bikes.

[echelon_john]

I agree it seems forced. I have ZERO doubt that the build quality and thoughtfulness that goes into the bikes is at the highest level, but the whole Ciavete approach was about owning a tiny slice of the person that was Dario, and that's gone unfortunately. Every good apprentice eventually repays the debt to the master through excellence and individuality and I hope the crew at Pegoretti builds from here to establish a nude erection. (A joke I think Dario and Roland would both approve of...no disrespect meant.)
JC

[msriddle]

I’m a strong fan of these frames. I own and have owned a few. I actually have one for sale in the classifieds now that I am in the process of upsizing.

If you visit the workshop in Verona you feel the passion that Dario created. The staff is completely qualified to carry on the vision. I had zero issues replacing my 55 that Dario touched with a 56 that the staff built and painted.

I once ordered the below Duende in Ciavete, when it arrived I passed on it. It took that experience to realize that I only really like about 20% of all Ciavetes. I love the stucco panels and the Faema schemes. I guess I prefer to be in control of the paint...

I agree, their Instagram is must see viewing.

[radsmd]

I am lucky enough to have 3 Pegorettis. In addition to the post-Dario responsorium ciavete I pictured above built by the crew, I have a Dario era Mxxxxxo that had paint damage when shipped from Italy that I had Joe Bell repaint in a Gulf racing theme as well as a Day is Done picked up used in a Dario ciavete. I love all of them equally and enjoy every second riding them.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200408/a1a46e571f2dd6a31e531c5aec381683.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200408/e6ab7e9e311cb25f70f95c5e6b16d7e3.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[echelon_john]

It's kind of like the original Speedvagen "Surprise me" finishes. I'd be happy to have a Hockney I didn't love--because it's a Hockney, and I know that there was that individual's intent behind it, informed by the entire body of that individual's work--but to have a Hockney-esque print or painting by Bill from Hackney isn't the same thing. No offense to Bill. Or Hackney. Lovely, both of them.

[Coffee Rider]

I am lucky enough to have 3 Pegorettis. In addition to the post-Dario responsorium ciavete I pictured above built by the crew, I have a Dario era Mxxxxxo that had paint damage when shipped from Italy that I had Joe Bell repaint in a Gulf racing theme as well as a Day is Done picked up used in a Dario ciavete. I love all of them equally and enjoy every second riding them.


I'm pretty sure I've never come across you out riding because there's no way I could see any of those frames and have it not catch my attention. You have a wonderful stable.

[choke]

Their Instagram is awesome....thanks for the heads up.

I'm in love with this one....

[OtayBW]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200408/a1a46e571f2dd6a31e531c5aec381683.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Game over. I don't want to play anymore! WoWiE!.....:banana:

[tv_vt]

Took a look at that Instagram link. Nothing to worry about here IMO. There are some absolute beauties there. And some that don't speak to me at all, too.

Which is how it was back in the days w/DP.

[Mikej]

Did Dario actually paint every Peg that they made?

[Tickdoc]

Did Dario actually paint every Peg that they made?

No.

[Polyglot]

I have a Dario era Mxxxxxo that had paint damage when shipped from Italy that I had Joe Bell repaint in a Gulf racing theme.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200408/a1a46e571f2dd6a31e531c5aec381683.jpg


I very much approve of your choice of colors but I can tell you that Dario would never have painted a frame using the Gulf Racing colors. I know this as a fact because back when I was waiting for my Crumpton frame, I was fantasizing about how I should get the frame painted. One day while speaking to Dario about a whole variety of other things, I happened to ask him about this same precise combination. Dario's immediate reaction was: "you can't do that, those are the colors of another American builder." I then jokingly asked him if he would be willing to paint it and to my absolute surprise he said, "one of Nick's frames built for you, sure!" That is how Dario ended up doing the paint for a carbon frame, quite likely the only one he ever painted. Please don't read into this that he would be upset that the bike was painted like this, but rather that it would not be something he would do on his own, of his own volition.

[fa63]

It says right there in his post that Joe Bell painted that frame, not Dario himself.

I very much approve of your choice of colors but I can tell you that Dario would never have painted a frame using the Gulf Racing colors. I know this as a fact because back when I was waiting for my Crumpton frame, I was fantasizing about how I should get the frame painted. One day while speaking to Dario about a whole variety of other things, I happened to ask him about this same precise combination. Dario's immediate reaction was: "you can't do that, those are the colors of another American builder." I then jokingly asked him if he would be willing to paint it and to my absolute surprise he said, "one of Nick's frames built for you, sure!" That is how Dario ended up doing the paint for a carbon frame, quite likely the only one he ever painted. Please don't read into this that he would be upset that the bike was painted like this, but rather that it would not be something he would do on his own, of his own volition.

[colker]

While every italian bicycle has the name of a scenic racing spot, Dario, who had all the racing credentials one could possibly aim, gave his frames the name of songs he liked. If you didn´t like those records, too bad. That´s how much of an independent thinker and poet he was. If he didn´t feel attracted for a shape of material he would not use it and yet his bikes are as good as any bike can be.

[colker]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200408/e6ab7e9e311cb25f70f95c5e6b16d7e3.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am in love w/ this. Day is done... i listened to the song after looking at this bike.

[radsmd]

I very much approve of your choice of colors but I can tell you that Dario would never have painted a frame using the Gulf Racing colors. I know this as a fact because back when I was waiting for my Crumpton frame, I was fantasizing about how I should get the frame painted. One day while speaking to Dario about a whole variety of other things, I happened to ask him about this same precise combination. Dario's immediate reaction was: "you can't do that, those are the colors of another American builder." I then jokingly asked him if he would be willing to paint it and to my absolute surprise he said, "one of Nick's frames built for you, sure!" That is how Dario ended up doing the paint for a carbon frame, quite likely the only one he ever painted. Please don't read into this that he would be upset that the bike was painted like this, but rather that it would not be something he would do on his own, of his own volition.

Thank you for sharing. I love all the stories behind these custom bikes/paint. I remember seeing that Dario painted Crumpton before and would love to see you post a picture of it now. I also love both Kirks that he had painted.

Unfortunately I never had the pleasure of meeting Dario; he passed before I was able to make it over to Verona to get measured up for the Responsorium.

[Hai H. Ho]

Awesome that Dario shared his passion with other Masters.

[Velocipede]

Awesome that Dario shared his passion with other Masters.

Dario did this for quite a few people. He did a bunch of forks for people with bare titanium frames like Enigma, Crisp and others. He was a true artist. He's sorely missed.

[ERK55]

Dario did this for quite a few people. He did a bunch of forks for people with bare titanium frames like Enigma, Crisp and others. He was a true artist. He's sorely missed.

That is for sure.
Even if Dario had retired and was no longer building he would be sorely missed.
One of a kind.

[Velocipede]

That is for sure.
Even if Dario had retired and was no longer building he would be sorely missed.
One of a kind.

All of it very true.

[jchasse]

I once ordered the below Duende in Ciavete, when it arrived I passed on it.

How does this work? Were you able to somehow "reject" the frame? Or are you saying you just sold it?

[R3awak3n]

Pertinent -


https://vimeo.com/406264827#at=531

[tttsmm]

Dario did this for quite a few people. He did a bunch of forks for people with bare titanium frames like Enigma, Crisp and others. He was a true artist. He's sorely missed.

yup for sure, and he was a damn nice chap to hang around with...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49771872936_dca268ebf7_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iQaRNh)[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/69241523@N04/] (https://flic.kr/p/2iQaRNh), on Flickr