Wheel building question

[Tony]

What are the must have tools to build a wheel? I have a truing stand and several spoke wrenches.

Another question. I'm using the same hub (Tune Mig 75) and replacing the Stan's Alpha 340 ZTR rim with a Boyd Altamont lite. I'm hoping to use the same spokes (Sapim CX-Ray) as they are fairly new. Using the PRO WHEEL BUILDER SPOKE LENGTH CALCULATOR the Stans calls for 280.3 spoke, the Boyd 279.3. I should be able to use the same spokes, yes?

[Mike V]

Spoke tension meter

[fmradio516]

You should be good to go with the tools. Would be ideal to have a tension meter and a dishing tool, but eh.. theres a trick to dishing with a couple soda cans thats pretty nifty.

regarding your spokes, it all depends on whoever built your wheels initially, if they chose spokes on the shorter side, or the longer side. Its possible they needed 280 spokes but got away with using 282s or something; then you might need new spokes. id measure one to be safe.

[Gummee]

Spoke tension meter

That's a 'nice to have' not a 'need to have' to build good wheels.

Depending on your stand you'll need a dishing tool to go with the spoke wrenches. You can use your bike and center the rim in the brakes, but that'll take longer.

If you're just changing a rim, tape one to the other and transfer spokes one at a time. Easy peasy

Once you find yourself building more wheels, then start investing in good tools. Took me almost 30 years to finally get a TS-2. Till that time, I built wheels on a folding Minoura stand. ...and the TS-2 only came about because my minions broke it and I upgraded the shop stand to a TS 2.2

M

[Tony]

Are spokes measured from the center of the head on a J bend or at the inside of the elbow to the end? I see two different ways of measuring on the web.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Your spokes will be a bit "longer" using the Boyd. Neither are super shallow rims so you won't have to worry about spokes creeping into the bed. I always round down when choosing spokes; hopefully whomever built your wheels did as well.

Personally, I would choose double-square or Squorx nipples anyway, because I like building with them. And in your specific case, they will give you some leeway with your spokes being on the long side.

If using a double-ended nipple, ideally you'd have the appropriate T-handle driver (well under $20), especially with bladed spokes. And since you're using CX-Rays, a bladed spoke holder of some sort is mandatory. I'm using a Pillar branded one that is round, it does the job and I can use it efficiently. While I haven't used one, I feel I'd prefer DT Swiss holder.

Are spokes measured from the center of the head on a J bend or at the inside of the elbow to the end? I see two different ways of measuring on the web.

They're measured from the elbow. The Park spoke ruler (https://www.parktool.com/product/spoke-bearing-and-cotter-gauge-sbc-1) is a useful tool.

All sorts of people will tell you that you don't need a tensionmeter. They'll also tell you that to build a wheel all you need is a fork, a zip tie, and a spoke wrench. I want the wheels I ride on to be better than the wheels those people are riding on.

[echelon_john]

Not a must have, but it sure saves a lot of cursing and shaking nipples out of rims:

https://takeahikeshop.com/products/evt-mulfinger-nipple-loading-tool

[Tony]

Your spokes will be a bit "longer" using the Boyd. Neither are super shallow rims so you won't have to worry about spokes creeping into the bed. I always round down when choosing spokes; hopefully whomever built your wheels did as well.

Personally, I would choose double-square or Squorx nipples anyway, because I like building with them. And in your specific case, they will give you some leeway with your spokes being on the long side.

If using a double-ended nipple, you'll need the appropriate T-handle driver (well under $20). And since you're using CX-Rays, a bladed spoke holder of some sort is mandatory. I'm using a Pillar branded one that is round and it does the job and I can use it efficiently. While I haven't used one, I feel I'd prefer DT Swiss holder.


They're measured from the elbow. The Park spoke ruler (https://www.parktool.com/product/spoke-bearing-and-cotter-gauge-sbc-1) is a useful tool.


After watching video below that was shared here they seem to stress highest tension possible. How do I know what is the highest tension for this wheel? Is there a chart like the spoke calculator for tension? This is a radial laced wheel.
Also in the video the screwdriver tool used has a design to stop tightening the nipple at a certain point. Does this tool set even tension of all spokes before you begin tightening the spokes?
https://www.spokeservice.ca/blog/tag/learning-resources

Thanks for the help all!

[unterhausen]

Rims usually have a max tension rating. I think a tension meter is a good thing, and I learned to build before they came into common usage.

[ryker]

Overall max tension is dictated by the component with the lowest max tension. Usually this is the rim but sometimes the hub.

For what it’s worth I think having a tensiometer is necessary. You don’t need a fancy one.

[ColonelJLloyd]

How do I know what is the highest tension for this wheel?

Typically that would be the kgf published by the rim manufacturer. Once you've built a few wheels and have learned to use your particular tensionmeter you'll feel it in your bones when you're approaching the max. And if you haven't lubed properly and are using aluminum nipples you can start rounding nips before you get there.

[fogrider]

Not a must have, but it sure saves a lot of cursing and shaking nipples out of rims:

https://takeahikeshop.com/products/evt-mulfinger-nipple-loading-tool

I've always used another spoke to load a nipple...a couple of turns and just drop it through.

[robt57]

Just a thought to put in your mond. Don't stress relieve with the method of grabbing pairs and pulling them tight after already tensioning the wheel. Do it before full tension so your ham fisting does not peak tension above the max tension of the rim.

Ask me if I have gorilla paws and learned this the hard way, way back when. ;)

[oldpotatoe]

What are the must have tools to build a wheel? I have a truing stand and several spoke wrenches.

Another question. I'm using the same hub (Tune Mig 75) and replacing the Stan's Alpha 340 ZTR rim with a Boyd Altamont lite. I'm hoping to use the same spokes (Sapim CX-Ray) as they are fairly new. Using the PRO WHEEL BUILDER SPOKE LENGTH CALCULATOR the Stans calls for 280.3 spoke, the Boyd 279.3. I should be able to use the same spokes, yes?

Depends. I'd say spoke keys, decent truing stand, dishing tool and home level tension meter. Little drip bottles of oil(between nipples and rim) and lindseed oil(between nipple and spoke).

Use 14mm nipples and brass at that. Remember, these thin spokes DO stretch some when building and spokes are kinda plus or minus about 1mm anyway.
Plus the hub is 'notched' some(lace same way), which effectively makes spoke length requirement shorter. What I'm saying is yes, use the old spokes, new brass 14mm Sapim SecureLock nipples.

Max tension is rim dependent. In this day and age, never hub dependent. Shoot for 110-120 KGF for front and drive side rear for those rims.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Little drip bottles of oil(between nipples and rim) and lindseed oil(between nipple and spoke).

Can you share a source for proper small bottles? I could use some.

Also, I was thinking the other day of a tool that should exist. A swiveling nipple driver like Park makes and the Bicycle Research tool I have, but with a socket head and ability to use interchangeable driver heads such as traditional, square, and Torx.

[oldpotatoe]

Can you share a source for proper small bottles? I could use some.

Also, I was thinking the other day of a tool that should exist. A swiveling nipple driver like Park makes and the Bicycle Research tool I have, but with a socket head and ability to use interchangeable driver heads such as traditional, square, and Torx.

Well, I got mine at the local hardware.

Yup, have those nipple drivers, long and short.. Plus one that holds onto the nipple do push thru deep rims, to start the threading..

[peanutgallery]

Ahhh...linseed oil:)

Great stuff, but be careful with any rag that you use with it. Burned down many a bike shop

[fmradio516]

Can you share a source for proper small bottles? I could use some.


Ive been using these with linseed oil. Extremely fine needles:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S1S1HMG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[ColonelJLloyd]

Yup, have those nipple drivers, long and short.. Plus one that holds onto the nipple do push thru deep rims, to start the threading..

You have what nipple drivers? An interchangeable swivel one or just one swivel driver for each interface?

I have the Alchemy tool for fishing the nipple in there. Happy to have it.

Ive been using these with linseed oil. Extremely fine needles:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S1S1HMG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks!

[oldpotatoe]

You have what nipple drivers? An interchangeable swivel one or just one swivel driver for each interface?

I have the Alchemy tool for fishing the nipple in there. Happy to have it.

Thanks!

Park ones, DT one for Squorx and the other made for me by 'Cranky Frankie', machinist with Maverik many moons ago. For deep dish rims.

[Tony]

Thanks for all the help, much appreciated! I'm going to give it a try.
I'm done with this Stan's rim. This is the second time a tire has blown off the rim, the first time was while pumping up the tire, this time the bike sat for several hours and BOOM loud explosion. I feel lucky I wasn't riding at the time, The tire it blew off is a Vittoria Corsa speed.

[Look585]

Does anyone else make their own "nippling" tool?

Cut and bend a spoke
Thread on a nipple upside down so that ~4mm of threads are exposed
Crimp/locktite the nipple so it doesn't move

While threading on each nipple takes longer than the Alchemy tool, the fixed "thread depth" means that each nipple is starting at a consistent tension. This saves me time on getting builds round and evenly tensioned.

[fmradio516]

Does anyone else make their own "nippling" tool?

Cut and bend a spoke
Thread on a nipple upside down so that ~4mm of threads are exposed
Crimp/locktite the nipple so it doesn't move

While threading on each nipple takes longer than the Alchemy tool, the fixed "thread depth" means that each nipple is starting at a consistent tension. This saves me time on getting builds round and evenly tensioned.

good idea. gonna make one myself!

[Tony]

Does anyone else make their own "nippling" tool?

Cut and bend a spoke
Thread on a nipple upside down so that ~4mm of threads are exposed
Crimp/locktite the nipple so it doesn't move

While threading on each nipple takes longer than the Alchemy tool, the fixed "thread depth" means that each nipple is starting at a consistent tension. This saves me time on getting builds round and evenly tensioned.

Awesome, I'm making one too!

[robt57]

I have one with a 90 and one with a round loop which I drop less. ;)

I also have taken a long driver tip I ground so it has a point. Stays centered on the nip and I spin with my fingers until the spoke come thru and touches the tip. I use these DIY bits building, or rim swaps, etc.


Does anyone else make their own "nippling" tool?

Cut and bend a spoke
Thread on a nipple upside down so that ~4mm of threads are exposed
Crimp/locktite the nipple so it doesn't move

While threading on each nipple takes longer than the Alchemy tool, the fixed "thread depth" means that each nipple is starting at a consistent tension. This saves me time on getting builds round and evenly tensioned.

[JAGI410]

Not a must have, but it sure saves a lot of cursing and shaking nipples out of rims:

https://takeahikeshop.com/products/evt-mulfinger-nipple-loading-tool

I just built a couple sets with this tool and I'm amazed by it. Worth every penny!