Educate me on tubeless wheels and tires

[veggieburger]

So - I am a complete meatball when it comes to this. I know nothing about tubeless road wheels, so pardon my ignorance!

I just bought a set of Campy wheels that are "2-way". The front wheel has a special valve installed so I guess it's ready to go.

I need a tubeless specific tire, right? Why won't a regular clincher tire work? What's the difference in tire construction to make the former work?

Do I need to add any goop into the rim, or can I just mount the tire, pump it up and ride?

Aside from being lighter, any major advantage to tubeless?

I guess that's it for now.

Thank you!

[eddief]

experiment lasted two weeks.

too much hassle. while i had no real issues with mounting, sealant was a mess. still ought to carry a tube just in case. not for me.

i hear they're faster, can use less pressure, less rolling resistance, more comfort. still not for me.

[R3awak3n]

You need a tubeless specific tire. Although a normal tire might work, you don't want it to blow off the rim. Tubeless tires have a different bead afaik and usually will be much tighter on the rim.

You definitely will want sealant on the tire, that is the magic of tubeless, if and when you have a flat the sealant will find its way to the hole and plug it so you can just keep ridding and hopefully loose very little pressure. That is the major advantage of tubuless, less flats because of the sealant and it WORKS. Also since there is no tubes you can run them at a much lower pressure which will up the confort, speed and better corner, traction (all the words that will help sell the tech). Also tubeless known to have less rolling resistance as well.


Personally I only use tubeless if 35mm tire or above. Reason is I don't want to put pressures over 70psi on tubeless and a 28mm for my weight I am going to want to run it at least at 80psi. Plenty are using road tubeless with success. Yes the initial setup does take a little longer but imo its worth it for the right person. For example I think it would be great for winter training when roads are filthy, wet and full of glass shards. Also worth it if you take road bike down trails, lower pressure is good. But YMMV, some love it, some hate it.

[Davist]

I'm a couple rides ahead of you. I got some hand me down GP5K tubeless in 32c and my wheels (DT) were pre taped. Mounted fairly easily (needed a tire lever on last 6" of second tire, second bead). Pumped up with regular pump (over pressure, around 80psi or so) to seat beads, removed valve stems and poured 1 little bottle of stan's in each tire, re inflated, (some trouble with valve stems, used orange seal's "old" style with double o rings, use stan's or DT for zero trouble like I did on gravel bike). These tires feel FAST, roll quite nicely at ~60-65psi for my 190lb carcass. I like them so far. They measure up at 32mm on 23mm od rims, so a bit narrow/true to size vs other continental offerings (my 28c 4ks2 are 33mm on 25mm od rims). So far I like them, still not sure I'll use all the time, because I wasn't getting significant flats, and I don't want to be sprayed with the goop.

[Red Tornado]

I have a set of Fulcrum Racing Zero 2-way fit wheels. 2-way fit is exactly what it says it is; you can run either tubeless (with sealant) or regular tires (with tubes).

I have used these wheels pretty regular for the past 7-8 years, and always used regular tires with tubes. They work just fine, and "snap" into the bead when you air them up. Never blown one off the rim. I typically run ~100 psi in the rear and upper 80's up front for 700X25. I'm in the 210-215 lb range. You have to work a little harder to break the bead loose when removing, but it's not too bad.

Even though I have not gone tubeless with mine, I know a few guys who do run tubeless in their Campy/Fulcrum 2-way wheels. You need to use the stems that came with the wheels, and obviously sealant. Most in these parts use Stan's No Tubes or Orange Seal. IIRC one guy tried the Caffe Latex but results were sub-par, for him at least. All have been very pleased with how their wheels performed set up tubeless.

My Fulcrum's are some of the best wheels I have owned. Very light but strong and have not needed to get them trued in the 7-8 years I've used them.

[veggieburger]

Sealant....does it just slosh around in the wheel? Or is it goopy and adheres to the inside of the tire? Do people ever run tubeless tires without sealant?

[kppolich]

Sealant....does it just slosh around in the wheel? Or is it goopy and adheres to the inside of the tire? Do people ever run tubeless tires without sealant?

Sloshes around until there is a leak and then it fills the hole. If the hole is massive, break out the cell phone the tire is done- just like it would be on a clincher.

[kppolich]

I just bought a set of Campy wheels that are "2-way". The front wheel has a special valve installed so I guess it's ready to go.
-Yes you'll need a tubeless valve stem front and rear.

I need a tubeless specific tire, right? Why won't a regular clincher tire work? What's the difference in tire construction to make the former work?
-Different bead most likely to work with the rim. Some are hookless, some work with hooked, usually dependent on the rim manufacturer.

Do I need to add any goop into the rim, or can I just mount the tire, pump it up and ride?
-Mount the tire first and make sure it holds air for an hour or so and let the bead get set. Then remove valve core and add sealant. Reason for the wait, is you don't want to take the tire off with sealant in there and make a mess.

Aside from being lighter, any major advantage to tubeless?
-Less flats (pinch and small punctures, typically lower pressure and a better ride, less maintenance if done correctly. I check sealant every 6 months and still sloshing.

[ntb1001]

I’ve had a set of Campy Eurus 2 way fit for 10 years now...I have not flatted ever on these. Now saying that...they are not my most used wheels, as they’re on my second bike...but they are super reliable wheels, and great ride quality.

[mt2u77]

What's the maximum recommended pressure for road tubeless, say for 28mm tires? I've read that at too high of a pressure, the sealant doesn't work very well.

My concern as a bigger guy (190 lbs) is that the usable pressure range will be pretty small for a road tire. Limited on the top end by the sealant, limited on the bottom by the potential for rim strikes.

[tmessenger]

I've been running Schwalbe G-One tubeless easy tires on Rolf converted rims without sealant, they pumped right up with a floor pump and sealed and have not lost pressure. I rarely get flats (4) in the last 20 years I also carry a tube.

Tim

[kppolich]

What's the maximum recommended pressure for road tubeless, say for 28mm tires? I've read that at too high of a pressure, the sealant doesn't work very well.

My concern as a bigger guy (190 lbs) is that the usable pressure range will be pretty small for a road tire. Limited on the top end by the sealant, limited on the bottom by the potential for rim strikes.

Rim and tire specific.

[Mark McM]

So - I am a complete meatball when it comes to this. I know nothing about tubeless road wheels, so pardon my ignorance!

I just bought a set of Campy wheels that are "2-way". The front wheel has a special valve installed so I guess it's ready to go.

I need a tubeless specific tire, right? Why won't a regular clincher tire work? What's the difference in tire construction to make the former work?

Do I need to add any goop into the rim, or can I just mount the tire, pump it up and ride?

Aside from being lighter, any major advantage to tubeless?

I guess that's it for now.

Thank you!

There's plenty of good information on tubeless tires, on this forum and elsewhere. But in the interest of completeness, I'll add a few notes:

There are really two different systems referred to as tubeless:

True 'Tubeless' tires were the first system to be developed, and was originally intended for mountain bikes. Systems like Mavic's UST required both the rim and the tire to adhere to strict specifications, which ensures that the tire maintains an air-tight seal on the rim. These systems did not require sealant, although many people do use sealant anyway.

Most tires/rims referred to as tubeless are really 'tubeless ready'. 'Tubeless ready' tires/rims aren't inherently air-tight, but are designed to be easily made air-tight with the use of rim tapes and tire sealants. The Campagnolo 2-way fit tires are 'tubeless ready'

As far as the performance characteristics of tubeless tires, except for the way they keep air in the tire, they are pretty much the same as other clinchers - they aren't lighter, or have less rolling resistance, or better traction, or more shock absorption, or better aerodynamics, than other clinchers at the same pressure. However, their protection against air loss through pinch-flatting punctures allows them to be used at lower pressures, which in some cases can offer performance advantages.

Where tubeless and tubeless ready tires differ from clinchers is in repair (and self-repair) and maintenance. Since there is no tube, there is no fear of pinch-flatting the tube. Tubeless tires puncture just as easily as regular tires, but if sealant is used, the sealant can 'automatically' re-seal the tire (if the puncture isn't too big). In case of larger punctures, tubeless tires are often repaired with plugs (like with auto tires), rather than by patching a tube.

In terms of maintenance, tubeless ready tires/rims usually have a tighter fit, so it can be a bit tougher to install/remove tires. It may take a strong blast of air to seat tubless tires on the rim, so standard hand pumps may not be sufficient. Sealant must be periodically refreshed, and there is a bit more clean up when tires are changed. A different set of on-the-road repair tools needs to be carried for tubeless tires - where standard clincher repair requires a spare tube and/or tube patch kit, tubeless tires may require a plug kit plus a regular tube if the puncture is too big for the sealant and/or plug.

[Davist]

What's the maximum recommended pressure for road tubeless, say for 28mm tires? I've read that at too high of a pressure, the sealant doesn't work very well.

My concern as a bigger guy (190 lbs) is that the usable pressure range will be pretty small for a road tire. Limited on the top end by the sealant, limited on the bottom by the potential for rim strikes.

I'm your size, been using 60-70 on 32 tubeless as above, been using basically the same (65 front 75 rear more or less) on 28c tubed wheels (gp4ks2s that puff out to 33 though) for a while (2+ years). No issues. Wider 25mm od carbon rims.

[daker13]

I love the tubeless tires on my gravel bike, but after reading a thread on the subject here a few weeks ago I think I'm pretty well convinced to avoid it on my road bike... which is too bad, because the benefits are pretty nice.