no really, what is going on with Speedplay and Wahoo?

[eddief]

I know this has been discussed but what do you think/know is really happening? No Frog stuff online anywhere in the world. Why would both companies handle this transition this way?

Why did Speedplay sell out?

Were they dead in the water?

Was Speedplay manufacturing in the U.S.?

Is Wahoo going offshore?

I only care about Frogs but are other Speedplay models still in play?

Does anyone give a hoot?

By the way, would be interested in a set or two of Frog cleats.

[cuda]

no idea about "what's going on with S and W". I dont follow the cycling industry very carefully but i'm pretty sure I have a pair of Frog cleats in a box of rando bike stuff out in my garage.
PM me your mailing address and I'll sen them to you.

[Velocipede]

I know this has been discussed but what do you think/know is really happening? No Frog stuff online anywhere in the world. Why would both companies handle this transition this way?
They aren't making the Frog pedals anymore.
Why did Speedplay sell out?
Richard and Susan wanted out. It was time. Kind of like Bill and Ellen with American Classic.
Were they dead in the water?
No. But they had atrocious customer service. Even as a dealer, just abysmal.
Was Speedplay manufacturing in the U.S.?
They were only doing a couple pedals towards the end. Most had been pushed off shore. Everything will be offshore now.
Is Wahoo going offshore?
Yes.
I only care about Frogs but are other Speedplay models still in play?
They will only be offering the following:
Zero Aero
Zero Stainless
Zero CrMo
Ultra Light Action
That's all as of the order form I just looked at.
Does anyone give a hoot?
Personally, I have hated their pedals forever. And I've known Richard since 1994. And we used to sell a ton of them. I never liked multiple things about them.
By the way, would be interested in a set or two of Frog cleats.
I might have a couple sets. I'll check tomorrow.

[BobC]

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=248322

[weiwentg]

I might have a couple sets. I'll check tomorrow.

Any word on being able to order multiple axle lengths from SP? I don’t need them, but some people do.

[Velocipede]

Any word on being able to order multiple axle lengths from SP? I don’t need them, but some people do.

They don't list anything on the order form. I can ask but It took me 3 weeks to get a response from them for something else. Things are quite slow and their customer service is just as bad as when they were in California.

[vincenz]

Well that sucks, no more titanium then? May just grab another pair before they go.

[eddief]

to support the customers who still use the pedals?

[Velocipede]

Well that sucks, no more titanium then? May just grab another pair before they go.

to support the customers who still use the pedals?

Neither is listed on the order form. I could ask if you'd like. Might take a bit for a response though. It's been a week and I still haven't gotten an RA# for something.

[ultraman6970]

Corona?

[Velocipede]

Corona?

Why I haven't gotten a response? No. Just bad CS. It took 3 weeks for someone to even get back to me on my initial order. I don't think they(Wahoo) were prepared to buy them(Speedplay).

[makoti]

Well that sucks, no more titanium then? May just grab another pair before they go.

Didn't someone on Ebay sell replacement parts for a while until Speedplay sued them? If Wahoo isn't making replacement parts, maybe they will start selling them again? Can they make cleats for the X's? (wishful thinking)

[Velocipede]

By the way, would be interested in a set or two of Frog cleats.

I looked. Sorry, I don't have any Frog cleats. I thought I did.

[tylercheung]

Is there a good chance the whole speedplay zero cleats will be discontinued in the future? I've been liking the 65 mm spindle.

I guess I could switch back to Shimano and the longer spindle...eventually...

[Velocipede]

Is there a good chance the whole speedplay zero cleats will be discontinued in the future? I've been liking the 65 mm spindle.

I guess I could switch back to Shimano and the longer spindle...eventually...

I don't think so. If you think about things it makes no sense for them to keep the X-Series pedals. Since you can get float on the Zero and Light Action. And of course lock them out on the Zero. The X-Series is kind of pointless. I think that's why they only have those models I listed earlier.

In terms of the longer spindle, I don't know about that and if they will offer longer ones. They only list the 55 and 53mm sizes for the Zero and Light Action.

[ultraman6970]

Sometimes firms do that just to bluff in the market, and the intention is just drop the new limb after a few months. Maybe are trying to attract investors?

Is wahoo doing ok? Looks like it.

Why I haven't gotten a response? No. Just bad CS. It took 3 weeks for someone to even get back to me on my initial order. I don't think they(Wahoo) were prepared to buy them(Speedplay).

[AndresLD]

I know this has been discussed but what do you think/know is really happening? No Frog stuff online anywhere in the world. Why would both companies handle this transition this way?

By the way, would be interested in a set or two of Frog cleats.

I can't imagine there's more than 1 person looking for frog cleats at once, you must have texted my shop a week or so ago looking for some?

[eddief]

i think you may underestimate how many people use/used Frog pedals.

I can't imagine there's more than 1 person looking for frog cleats at once, you must have texted my shop a week or so ago looking for some?

[thwart]

i think you may underestimate how many people use/used Frog pedals.
Yes, I think so.

Love 'em.

[woolly]

I don't think so. If you think about things it makes no sense for them to keep the X-Series pedals. Since you can get float on the Zero and Light Action. And of course lock them out on the Zero. The X-Series is kind of pointless. I think that's why they only have those models I listed earlier.

In terms of the longer spindle, I don't know about that and if they will offer longer ones. They only list the 55 and 53mm sizes for the Zero and Light Action.

My brief experience with the Zero's was enough to let me know that there is indeed a distinct difference in the float on the X's and the Zero's. I'm really hoping that they don't totally discontinue the X's (or the Frogs - ESPECIALLY the Frogs). After checking with Wahoo, one of my LBS's confirmed that they could not currently order pedals nor cleats. But they also said that Wahoo suggested that at least cleats may be back in stock in 6 months or so. Can anyone better-connected validate that?

[Mark McM]

I have been using X-Series pedals for over 20 years, but due to what appears to be a discontinuation of the X-Series, I figured I might try the Zero pedals. Fortunately my LBS had a set at 40% off. I just tried them out today, and here's my first impressions:

Installation: Installing the Zero walkable cleats wasn't much different than for X-Series, except that the Zero cleats were much more sensitive to the flatness of the base plate. The X-Series were always senstive to flatness, but the Zero's were even more so. This might have been because the Zero cleat steel outer plate is much closer to the base plate than the X-Series aluminum plate. Because I like a lot of free float, I adjusted the pedals to maximum float.

Entry and exit: I found that the Zero series are not nearly as easy to enter as the X-Series. Not that the Zeros are hard, exactly, but the X-Series are incredibly easy. With the X-Series, it was as simple as lining up the cleat with the pedal and stepping down (and due to chamfered shape of the pedal, you didn't need to be that exact when lining up the cleat). The Zero cleats took far more force to engage, and sometimes a bit of rotational wiggling of the foot. Often, the engaging the cleat felt like a two step operation - a push rearward and down engaged the back cleat spring, and a push forward and down would engage the front cleat spring.

I found exitting the Zeros also a little more difficult than the the X-Series. With the X-Series, you just twisted your foot, and when you rotated far enough, the cleat just "fell out" of the pedal. You have to rotate your foot fairly far, but virtually no force is required. With the Zeros, you don't have to twist your foot nearly as far (and in fact, you can't rotate your foot as far). But it took a lot more force to get your foot out. And in addition, I found you have to conciously lift your foot off the pedal to complete the disengagement (with the X-Series I didn't have to purposely pull my foot off, the cleat just naturally disengaged).

Riding: As noted early, my feet like a lot of free float. With the X-Series my feet were free to rotate as much and as far they wanted. With the Zeros, the angle of rotatation is more limited. I found that occasionally my feet would hit the rotation stops while riding, although this never resulted in an inadvertant release (probably because releasing takes some force). But, the amount of float offered was sufficient for me, and hitting the rotation stops had no-ill effects, it was just something I noticed (likely because I never experienced that with the X-Series.

Final thoughts: Overall, I found the experience with the Zero pedals generally positive. It took a little more time and attention to get in and out, but that's probably something I could get used to. In normal riding it probably wouldn't be a problem, although there is one situation where it could be small detriment: I race criteriums, and some crits. have very fast starts. With the X-Series, I can be clicked in on the first downstroke of the foot, and be ready to pull up on the upstroke, as we sprint off the line. The Zeros may not allow me start quite as quickly. Still, compared to other pedals I've used, they're pretty good. The X-Series are still my favorite, but if the X-Series not been invented, I might have opted for the Zeros against the other pedals on the market.

[Tony]

I have been using X-Series pedals for over 20 years, but due to what appears to be a discontinuation of the X-Series, I figured I might try the Zero pedals. Fortunately my LBS had a set at 40% off. I just tried them out today, and here's my first impressions:

Installation: Installing the Zero walkable cleats wasn't much different than for X-Series, except that the Zero cleats were much more sensitive to the flatness of the base plate. The X-Series were always senstive to flatness, but the Zero's were even more so. This might have been because the Zero cleat steel outer plate is much closer to the base plate than the X-Series aluminum plate. Because I like a lot of free float, I adjusted the pedals to maximum float.

Entry and exit: I found that the Zero series are not nearly as easy to enter as the X-Series. Not that the Zeros are hard, exactly, but the X-Series are incredibly easy. With the X-Series, it was as simple as lining up the cleat with the pedal and stepping down (and due to chamfered shape of the pedal, you didn't need to be that exact when lining up the cleat). The Zero cleats took far more force to engage, and sometimes a bit of rotational wiggling of the foot. Often, the engaging the cleat felt like a two step operation - a push rearward and down engaged the back cleat spring, and a push forward and down would engage the front cleat spring.

I found exitting the Zeros also a little more difficult than the the X-Series. With the X-Series, you just twisted your foot, and when you rotated far enough, the cleat just "fell out" of the pedal. You have to rotate your foot fairly far, but virtually no force is required. With the Zeros, you don't have to twist your foot nearly as far (and in fact, you can't rotate your foot as far). But it took a lot more force to get your foot out. And in addition, I found you have to conciously lift your foot off the pedal to complete the disengagement (with the X-Series I didn't have to purposely pull my foot off, the cleat just naturally disengaged).

Riding: As noted early, my feet like a lot of free float. With the X-Series my feet were free to rotate as much and as far they wanted. With the Zeros, the angle of rotatation is more limited. I found that occasionally my feet would hit the rotation stops while riding, although this never resulted in an inadvertant release (probably because releasing takes some force). But, the amount of float offered was sufficient for me, and hitting the rotation stops had no-ill effects, it was just something I noticed (likely because I never experienced that with the X-Series.

Final thoughts: Overall, I found the experience with the Zero pedals generally positive. It took a little more time and attention to get in and out, but that's probably something I could get used to. In normal riding it probably wouldn't be a problem, although there is one situation where it could be small detriment: I race criteriums, and some crits. have very fast starts. With the X-Series, I can be clicked in on the first downstroke of the foot, and be ready to pull up on the upstroke, as we sprint off the line. The Zeros may not allow me start quite as quickly. Still, compared to other pedals I've used, they're pretty good. The X-Series are still my favorite, but if the X-Series not been invented, I might have opted for the Zeros against the other pedals on the market.

After breaking in it becomes much easier to get in and out. Also, zeros seem to need dry lube more so than X series.

[AndresLD]

i think you may underestimate how many people use/used Frog pedals.

I think in this particular case, it seems Speedplay has too.

[bfd]

I think in this particular case, it seems Speedplay has too.

What I find weird is Speedplay cleats are in the $30+ range and definitely not cheap. You would think that Speedplay/Wahoo would be making some money on them. So even if they discontinue the X pedals and Frogs, hopefully not as I run 4 different sets on all my bikes, why not continue selling the cleats?

I guess one analogy is printers. The printer itself is fairly cheap, but the cartridge refills is big business and where the companies like HP, Canon, etc. make a lot of money. It should be similar for cleats.

Of course, with Wahoo now owning Speedplay, as someone earlier said, they may not be set up for it and are trying to figure it out. I know, Good Luck!

[Spoker]

Chinese will step in to make cleats I'm sure. Were they not on ebay already?

[eddief]

bought them all. set for the next 5 years or so. hope to ride even after this nuclear winter.

[peanutgallery]

Long story short, Wahoo bought a business from a crazy person and they're spending a few months consolidating everything. Inventory, distribution etc. Former owner was a nut and pretty litigious so I'm betting this part has been interesting to say the least

Plan was for a relaunch this Spring/Summer with better distribution and support of products. Given the brand's past history in the LBS, that should not be too difficult. If you're finding speedplay it's because someone has it in stock. Be patient, you'll see stuff soon...and your favorite retailer won't have order a ton of it to be a dealer. After that, if there's an availability issue of a particular product or cleat...see the above paragraph

As far as Frogs? I've never understood, but to each their own:) Just hang in there

[makoti]

Of course, with Wahoo now owning Speedplay, as someone earlier said, they may not be set up for it and are trying to figure it out. I know, Good Luck!

If they bought Speedplay, they most likely bought whatever manufacturing chain Speedplay had, so they should be able to simply continue production

[eddief]

not trying to convince anyone but here's my take. i have only ever used them on road bikes since i like to walk like human not like a duck and enjoy the practicality of mtb shoes compared to road shoes.

1. relatively light enough
2. double sided
3. no springs, easy in, easy out
4. good float
5. cleat has relatively large flat surface, so no hot spots
6. pedal creates relatively large platform, so feels just right on long rides



As far as Frogs? I've never understood, but to each their own:) Just hang in there

[wc1934]

bought them all. set for the next 5 years or so. hope to ride even after this nuclear winter.

Stockpiling frogs - I am calling Wm. Barr on you.

[cmbicycles]

I have been using X-Series pedals for over 20 years, but due to what appears to be a discontinuation of the X-Series, I figured I might try the Zero pedals. Fortunately my LBS had a set at 40% off. I just tried them out today, and here's my first impressions:



Installation: Installing the Zero walkable cleats wasn't much different than for X-Series, except that the Zero cleats were much more sensitive to the flatness of the base plate. The X-Series were always senstive to flatness, but the Zero's were even more so. This might have been because the Zero cleat steel outer plate is much closer to the base plate than the X-Series aluminum plate. Because I like a lot of free float, I adjusted the pedals to maximum float.



Entry and exit: I found that the Zero series are not nearly as easy to enter as the X-Series. Not that the Zeros are hard, exactly, but the X-Series are incredibly easy. With the X-Series, it was as simple as lining up the cleat with the pedal and stepping down (and due to chamfered shape of the pedal, you didn't need to be that exact when lining up the cleat). The Zero cleats took far more force to engage, and sometimes a bit of rotational wiggling of the foot. Often, the engaging the cleat felt like a two step operation - a push rearward and down engaged the back cleat spring, and a push forward and down would engage the front cleat spring.



I found exitting the Zeros also a little more difficult than the the X-Series. With the X-Series, you just twisted your foot, and when you rotated far enough, the cleat just "fell out" of the pedal. You have to rotate your foot fairly far, but virtually no force is required. With the Zeros, you don't have to twist your foot nearly as far (and in fact, you can't rotate your foot as far). But it took a lot more force to get your foot out. And in addition, I found you have to conciously lift your foot off the pedal to complete the disengagement (with the X-Series I didn't have to purposely pull my foot off, the cleat just naturally disengaged).



Riding: As noted early, my feet like a lot of free float. With the X-Series my feet were free to rotate as much and as far they wanted. With the Zeros, the angle of rotatation is more limited. I found that occasionally my feet would hit the rotation stops while riding, although this never resulted in an inadvertant release (probably because releasing takes some force). But, the amount of float offered was sufficient for me, and hitting the rotation stops had no-ill effects, it was just something I noticed (likely because I never experienced that with the X-Series.



Final thoughts: Overall, I found the experience with the Zero pedals generally positive. It took a little more time and attention to get in and out, but that's probably something I could get used to. In normal riding it probably wouldn't be a problem, although there is one situation where it could be small detriment: I race criteriums, and some crits. have very fast starts. With the X-Series, I can be clicked in on the first downstroke of the foot, and be ready to pull up on the upstroke, as we sprint off the line. The Zeros may not allow me start quite as quickly. Still, compared to other pedals I've used, they're pretty good. The X-Series are still my favorite, but if the X-Series not been invented, I might have opted for the Zeros against the other pedals on the market.I think the zeros are more sensitive to a flat mounting surface due to the flat spring. X series springs being round probably deform a slight bit more easily if the mounting surface isnt perfectly flat.
I am just hoping the x series wont be permanently discontinued, I have used them for 20+ years. If they are canned by Wahoo, I'll just give the zeros a try when I need new pedals/cleats. Maybe someone will buy the rights to X/frogs and reintroduce them.

[Mark McM]

If they bought Speedplay, they most likely bought whatever manufacturing chain Speedplay had, so they should be able to simply continue production

Then what would be the point of buying Speedplay? One reason that companies buy other companies is to improve efficiency by merging supply chains. Of course, that doesn't always happen quickly, so there are often interruptions.

Sadly, another thing that happens when companies are sold and merged is that they 'prune' less profitable products. The X-Series design is over 30 years old and sells in much lower quantity than the Zero pedals (which were introduced as a improved version of the basic design). Since it requires an investment to transfer each product to a new production system, it may be decided that the return on investment on the X-Series may not be high enough justify continuing them.

It appeared that Speedplay's previous owner, Richard Bryne, put great weight on support of older producs, for replacement parts, and for the ability to customize pedals (Speedplay provided spindles in different lengths, supplied shims in different thickness, and adapter plates to allow greater adjustability of cleat position). But the new owners may not value these things as highly.

[Buzz]

Ugh. I am one of those users that appreciated the ability to repair and customize the pedals. I have owned just two pairs of x2s over the last 23 years. The second pair came in about 9 years ago- a 65 mm spindle set.

These have always been easy to service and maintain. I suspect our mild climate in California has a lot to do with their longevity but still impressive nonetheless.

Last year I started looking around for another 65 mm spindle pair so I wouldn’t have to keep switching pedals between my bikes. But they were no longer available for x-2.

Looking forward anyone have a recommendation on a 65 mm spindle pedal with a lot of float?

[truth]

Looking forward anyone have a recommendation on a 65 mm spindle pedal with a lot of float?

I've been happy with ISSI Flash pedals.

[Buzz]

I've been happy with ISSI Flash pedals.

Thanks.

[makoti]

Then what would be the point of buying Speedplay? One reason that companies buy other companies is to improve efficiency by merging supply chains. Of course, that doesn't always happen quickly, so there are often interruptions.

Sadly, another thing that happens when companies are sold and merged is that they 'prune' less profitable products. The X-Series design is over 30 years old and sells in much lower quantity than the Zero pedals (which were introduced as a improved version of the basic design). Since it requires an investment to transfer each product to a new production system, it may be decided that the return on investment on the X-Series may not be high enough justify continuing them.

It appeared that Speedplay's previous owner, Richard Bryne, put great weight on support of older producs, for replacement parts, and for the ability to customize pedals (Speedplay provided spindles in different lengths, supplied shims in different thickness, and adapter plates to allow greater adjustability of cleat position). But the new owners may not value these things as highly.

I get that, but the statement was that, since the bought SP, they maybe couldn't make the cleats anymore. That is likely false. They CAN, but they are choosing not to. I get the possible reasons, but the fact is the COULD. They bought everything that goes with Speedplay. Does it make sense for them to do that? No clue. As you said, there are many factors involved and the new owners may not care about legacy products. Hope they change their minds and support the cleats.

[ojingoh]

Then what would be the point of buying Speedplay?

Speedplay Zero-based Pedal Power meter. I do not 'know' that but I suspect that's in the offing.

Why do it:

A lot of Speedplay zero customers out there, a lot not on power
A legal way to lock out competitors
Engineering expertise is adaptable to the current product

[cgolvin]

Speedplay Zero-based Pedal Power meter. I do not 'know' that but I suspect that's in the offing.

Why do it:

A lot of Speedplay zero customers out there, a lot not on power
A legal way to lock out competitors
Engineering expertise is adaptable to the current product


This seems a widespread belief/expectation and I can see the logic for Wahoo entering the power category.

I'd be interested in such a product since it would allow me to put power on all my bikes with easy swappability and no change to shoes/cleats, but I suspect that it will be pricey.

[weiwentg]

Speedplay Zero-based Pedal Power meter. I do not 'know' that but I suspect that's in the offing.

Why do it:

A lot of Speedplay zero customers out there, a lot not on power
A legal way to lock out competitors
Engineering expertise is adaptable to the current product


Can you clarify the last bit? Neither Wahoo nor Speedplay have tried to produce (edit: a bike-based) power meter before. Those things aren’t simple.

Brim Brothers tried to make a PM for Speedplays, but failed. Metrigear was trying as well, but Garmin bought them. Neither are part of Speedplay.

[oldpotatoe]

Ugh. I am one of those users that appreciated the ability to repair and customize the pedals. I have owned just two pairs of x2s over the last 23 years. The second pair came in about 9 years ago- a 65 mm spindle set.

These have always been easy to service and maintain. I suspect our mild climate in California has a lot to do with their longevity but still impressive nonetheless.

Last year I started looking around for another 65 mm spindle pair so I wouldn’t have to keep switching pedals between my bikes. But they were no longer available for x-2.

Looking forward anyone have a recommendation on a 65 mm spindle pedal with a lot of float?

Pretty sure the spindles are the same for X series and Zeros..just the 'puck' is different. Try to find the spindles then try to find new X series pucks..

[unterhausen]

wahoo certainly knows a lot about measuring power. Miniaturizing it is certainly a trick.

Hopefully, Wahoo is not going to be as litigious as speedplay. It was always pretty questionable, but if they aren't going to support old pedals it's really bad to stop people from selling parts.

[eddief]

Customer service would not commit to me that they've decided on product line. Said they are "assessing" at this time.

[makoti]

Customer service would not commit to me that they've decided on product line. Said they are "assessing" at this time.

I got the same thing. Not a surprising statement, but I'm really hoping the see keeping cleats available as something they want to do.