MTB musings...

[Powerful Pete]

Fellow Paceliners,

As many of you, I have a surplus of time to think about n+1. Current stable consists of road and gravel-ish bikes... see pics of here (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2530458&postcount=11).

Daydreaming of adding an MTB, probably a hardtail as my first foray into this world. It would be something that I would be using either in the Lima, Peru area and eventually in the Washington DC area when things settle down Covid-wise.

As I would assume conditions have something to do with this, in Peru would be on these kinds of rides:

1. Less than 5km from my abode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws2Btg99wVg

2. Morro Solar in downtown Lima: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYVUpr2ZAJI

3. Pachacamac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpRDP-MeMVs and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJnpG71Nr9M

Terrain now is very dry and occasionally sandy, in the winter becomes greener and in areas like Pachacamac far greener and occasionally muddy.

I am a proficient rider but have never ridden MTBs. Currently my Jamis Renegade is in Peru so I have an excellent gravel bike there... which is helpful given the state of the roads. 50 years young, so not looking for crazy down hilling, but more fun off-roading also given crazy Lima traffic.

Thinking of a Specialized Chisel - upper price range is USD 2k - and yes I realize some/most of the rides listed above could be done on my gravel bike, but looking at a new whip.... your advice would be appreciated!

Thinking of the Specialized because the best local shop to me in Lima is a Specialized store - fully realizing I am going to pay the Specialized tax...

Any thoughts on the Chisel? Other options in a similar price range?
Thanks!

[mtechnica]

I think the chisel is a great choice. I too mostly ride drop bar bikes, but I got a full suspension MTB and hated it. Honestly I would get the lightest and stiffest possible racing MTB, and make sure to size up not down. I like to climb and can get by on a cross bike so to me the FS was so overkill, and I did try some fairly hardcore downhill single track and just decided it seemed too risky for me so I sold the bike. YMMV

[Lewis Moon]

I think the chisel is a great choice. I too mostly ride drop bar bikes, but I got a full suspension MTB and hated it. Honestly I would get the lightest and stiffest possible racing MTB, and make sure to size up not down. I like to climb and can get by on a cross bike so to me the FS was so overkill, and I did try some fairly hardcore downhill single track and just decided it seemed too risky for me so I sold the bike. YMMV

I've been a roadie all my life, so I bought a hard tail as my first MTB. Six weeks and one race later I sold it and bought a modern full squish bike. For traversing broken ground at a fast pace, there really is no substitute. It makes a huge difference. The first time I took it out on a course I had wired on the previous bike, I set new PRs on just about every section...then proceeded to do it again on the second lap.
If you ever decide to go full squish, don't cheap out. Get something with a DW link and lockouts on both ends.

[mtechnica]

I've been a roadie all my life, so I bought a hard tail as my first MTB. Six weeks and one race later I sold it and bought a modern full squish bike. For traversing broken ground at a fast pace, there really is no substitute. It makes a huge difference. The first time I took it out on a course I had wired on the previous bike, I set new PRs on just about every section...then proceeded to do it again on the second lap.
If you ever decide to go full squish, don't cheap out. Get something with a DW link and lockouts on both ends.

I heard all kinds of stories like this. I bought a fairly nice Santa Cruz FS and yeah it was pretty amazing what it could do on terrible surfaces. The kind of places I like to ride though, aren’t that bad and I’m not convinced any FS bike will climb as well as a rigid 20lb or less bike - just imo. Most FS bikes are heavy, mine was about 26lbs and did have lockouts as well as a pedaling platform option for the rear shock.

[Jaybee]

The climbing thing depends on the terrain you’re climbing up. Fire roads, buff single track then the efficiency of the HT matters. Start to add chunk and technical moves and it’s nice to have your back wheel stuck to the ground. It’s also nice on really long climbs that aren’t super smooth to be able to sit down over some of the smaller chunky bits and save some of your out of saddle matches for the techy spots.

The Chisel is a really nice bike. If it’s probably going to be a specialized I might see what a Stumpy ST feels like too before you commit.

[benb]

I heard all kinds of stories like this. I bought a fairly nice Santa Cruz FS and yeah it was pretty amazing what it could do on terrible surfaces. The kind of places I like to ride though, aren’t that bad and I’m not convinced any FS bike will climb as well as a rigid 20lb or less bike - just imo. Most FS bikes are heavy, mine was about 26lbs and did have lockouts as well as a pedaling platform option for the rear shock.

XC F/S bikes must be a lot lighter than 26lbs now. I thought some at the high end (carbon frame, etc..) were under 20lbs by now?

My Giant NRS (aluminum, ancient) is less than 25lbs.. maybe 23? And it doesn't have a particularly high end fork, though it does have SRAM X.0 with lots of carbon bits.

All depends on where you live.. the F/S rear end will beat the HT uphill unless the uphill is super buff & smooth. Where I ride that's never the case.

Technique trumps all but the sprung rear helps a lot.

[weaponsgrade]

My suggestion would be to get something that can handle a 2.5 tire. A fat tire with psi in the teens can forgive a lot of mistakes, give lots of traction, and smooth things out.

[benb]

Totally agree on the 2.5” tire. Huge tires are even more of a revelation on MTBs than they are on road bikes, especially with tubeless since it works so well at low pressure.

[Jaybee]

XC F/S bikes must be a lot lighter than 26lbs now. I thought some at the high end (carbon frame, etc..) were under 20lbs by now?

My Giant NRS (aluminum, ancient) is less than 25lbs.. maybe 23? And it doesn't have a particularly high end fork, though it does have SRAM X.0 with lots of carbon bits.

All depends on where you live.. the F/S rear end will beat the HT uphill unless the uphill is super buff & smooth. Where I ride that's never the case.

Technique trumps all but the sprung rear helps a lot.

They are, but not for the ~$2k the OP wants to spend.

After looking at the videos he posted, I think his best bet is something like that Chisel with 2.6 Rekons or similar.

[mtechnica]

XC F/S bikes must be a lot lighter than 26lbs now. I thought some at the high end (carbon frame, etc..) were under 20lbs by now?

My Giant NRS (aluminum, ancient) is less than 25lbs.. maybe 23? And it doesn't have a particularly high end fork, though it does have SRAM X.0 with lots of carbon bits.

All depends on where you live.. the F/S rear end will beat the HT uphill unless the uphill is super buff & smooth. Where I ride that's never the case.

Technique trumps all but the sprung rear helps a lot.

Lol. If you think they’re under 20lbs you guys are in for some pretty serious disappointment.

[nmrt]

after looking at the terrain you're riding in, I think the following fit the bill:
1. Ibis DV9
2. Santa Cruz Chameleon

[Gummee]

[retro grouch mode on]Everyone should learn how to ride off-road on something hardtail with rigid begin a better learning tool. Teaches you to pick/ride lines and learn how to absorb shock with your knees and arms vs a shock. Just about anyone can go fast on a FS bike and ignore the terrain. [/retro grouch mode off]

I have a p650b, a rigid Superfly, rigid SIR9, and a Top Fuel in the garage. The Top Fuel is indeed the fastest thing in the garage, but I keep reaching for the Superfly when I'm out playing in the woods with my buddies.

If I'm riding with my slow buddies, I'll ride the P650b. It's a lot of fun and feels like the past 20-some odd years of 26ers, but it rolls a bit better.

If I'm riding with my faster buddies, I'll ride the Superfly. Alternatively, I'll ride the Superfly to demonstrate to the unwashed masses that you don't *need* 140mm of travel for most of the trails near DC. I'm considering making the Superfly into a SS 'just because.'

I'll ride the Top Fuel when I'm riding in the woods with buddies and I know they're going to go race pace.

IMO there's no 'best' bike and you should buy a garage queen from someone that's decided that it's the bike not allowing them to keep up with their buddies instead a lack of T.I.T.S. (time in the saddle)

M


Did I tell you (OP) that I have this bitchin' Top Fuel I need to sell? If you ride a Med, I'll make ya a deal when you get to DC.

[Lewis Moon]

Lol. If you think they’re under 20lbs you guys are in for some pretty serious disappointment.

Yeah...my Turner Czar has carbon tubes that are "squeezably" light..but even if I pimped it out, it would only be in the low mid 20s.
If the OP is looking at climbing long fire roads, then by all means, grab a light hardtail. Just remember, you'll have to come back down, too (get a drop post and a mouth guard).
I went with a carbon CX bike for fire roads and the Turner for where those roads end. The Turner is a damn capable climber over broken ground.

[p nut]

Ive sold all of my full suspension bikes. I love riding 29er HT, and especially with a rigid fork.

Given your sandy and muddy terrain, I’d suggest looking at a Plus size bike (27 or 29). And something more Trail oriented than XC (raging). You’ll be more upright and comfortable, especially on the descents and technical terrain.

I like the Santa Cruz offering. Carbon model is $2.7k but this aluminum version is $1.7k. You have your choice between 29” and 27.5Plus. I would get the Plus version and add a 29 wheelset if you choose later on down the road.

Chameleon (https://www.backcountry.com/santa-cruz-bicycles-chameleon-27.5-d-complete-mountain-bike-snz00ji?CMP_SKU=SNZ00JI&MER=0406&skid=SNZ00JI-OR-M&mr:trackingCode=19AEBF58-3ACE-E811-8108-005056944E17&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=m&mr:adType=plaonline&iv_=__iv_p_1_g_56708778456_c_276833387490_w_pla-463254755988_n_g_d_m_v__l__t__r__x_pla_y_7811_f_on line_o_SNZ00JI-OR-M_z_US_i_en_j_463254755988_s__e__h_1013962_ii__vi_ _&CMP_ID=PLA_GMm001&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PLA&k_clickid=_k_Cj0KCQjw6sHzBRCbARIsAF8FMpXjLORD1n3nT csMDJ4mRascND5GOupN-DQJXEqW3G7ga-cZlT2WSUMaAilaEALw_wcB_k_&rmatt=tsid:1042790%7Ccid:1447725969%7Cagid:5670877 8456%7Ctid:pla-463254755988%7Ccrid:276833387490%7Cnw:g%7Crnd:1750 1592812848647948%7Cdvc:m%7Cadp:%7Cmt:%7Cloc:101396 2&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6sHzBRCbARIsAF8FMpXjLORD1n3nTcsMDJ4m RascND5GOupN-DQJXEqW3G7ga-cZlT2WSUMaAilaEALw_wcB)

[mtechnica]

after looking at the terrain you're riding in, I think the following fit the bill:
1. Ibis DV9
2. Santa Cruz Chameleon

My girlfriend has a 2019 chameleon 29er. It’s solid and a nice bike. Not light, but seems extremely capable downhill. She is a novice mountain biker and made it down the luge (whiting, look it up) NO problem on the thing within the first week of ever owning a mountain bike. That said she says she wishes she got a lighter XC bike since like I said, neither of us are daredevils and tend to enjoy longer climbs and just take it slow back down.

DV9 similar story but lighter, a fairly slack HT but not an XC rig per se.

[mtechnica]

Yeah...my Turner Czar has carbon tubes that are "squeezably" light..but even if I pimped it out, it would only be in the low mid 20s.
If the OP is looking at climbing long fire roads, then by all means, grab a light hardtail. Just remember, you'll have to come back down, too (get a drop post and a mouth guard).
I went with a carbon CX bike for fire roads and the Turner for where those roads end. The Turner is a damn capable climber over broken ground.

Yeah the dropper post is a must. I think you can do ok downhill on a hard tail as long as you have a dropper and a good fork, but it’s rougher for sure.

[Powerful Pete]

Thanks guys for all the recommendations... off to the intarwebz to check out the Chameleon and the DV9 (never really heard of either).

Also thanks @gummee - I’ll go read up on what a Top Fuel is :) and get back to you.

And now I am also confronted with having to do homework on tire options... again thanks to all for keeping me busy on bike-related stuff during this stay at home period. :hello:

[Gummee]

Thanks guys for all the recommendations... off to the intarwebz to check out the Chameleon and the DV9 (never really heard of either).

Also thanks @gummee - I’ll go read up on what a Top Fuel is :) and get back to you.

And now I am also confronted with having to do homework on tire options... again thanks to all for keeping me busy on bike-related stuff during this stay at home period. :hello:

Tire options are about as deep a rabbit hole as 'what bike to buy?'

...and everyone has an opinion on 'what's best.'

...which varies with where you ride and trail conditions when you're riding them.

My Top Fuel is a 9.9 with an XT build on it. All black.

M