Tubulars or tubeless? Let the quarentine games begin.

[colker]

Tubulars
_ Best riding quality.
_ lightweight rims
_ tried and tested. No surprises.
_ w/ practice you can swap a tire in way less time than you repair tubeless or clincher.
cons:
it needs gluing.(so what?)
spares take more space.(so what?)


Tubeless
_ almost as good as tubular.. almost.
_ if you ride bigger than 700x28 or 650B there is only one option
cons
mounting tires can make you cry.
tire blows and spreads all over your face. ha ha... not.
heavier rim, just like a clincher.

Logic says tubular is underrated.

[FlashUNC]

Bow down to the rolling resistance gods. That's going to get the punters over.

You know the tubular game is up when Campy is putting out tubeless aero wheels with no tubular option in sight.

[colker]

Bow down to the rolling resistance gods. That's going to get the punters over.

You know the tubular game is up when Campy is putting out tubeless aero wheels with no tubular option in sight.

Campy dresses their pants each leg at a time but when they cancel tubulars they make a mistake.

[bikinchris]

For real racing, tubulars are the thing. Road or track.

For MTB, tubeless is the thing.

For road in the foreseeable future, I will stick to clinchers. In the shop, I deal with tubeless all the time. I absolutely do NOT want to have to repair a tubeless tire on the side of the road. Especially since I never have to fix flats on my own low maintenance clinchers. As it is, I inflate them and ride them until they are worn out, put a new tube and tire and repeat. I have done that for decades.

[Miljack]

What is the frequency for flatting road tubeless setups? I've read tubeless less susceptible to flats?

[bikinchris]

What is the frequency for flatting road tubeless setups? I've read tubeless less susceptible to flats?

Tubeless will seal small punctures. It will easily seal thorns. It will not seal bigger cuts. It is a disaster with bigger cuts and higher pressures. It will spew sticky sealant everywhere. On your bike, on you and anyone riding with you.
It will not pinch flat very easily, but neither will clinchers if you keep them inflated with on road use.
The sealant will dry up. So adding sealant every 6 months even if you Don't ride the bike is necessary. Then your nice light tire has both hard old sealant and new sealant in it.

[Miljack]

Tubeless will seal small punctures. It will easily seal thorns. It will not seal bigger cuts. It is a disaster with bigger cuts and higher pressures. It will spew sticky sealant everywhere. On your bike, on you and anyone riding with you.
It will not pinch flat very easily, but neither will clinchers if you keep them inflated with on road use.
The sealant will dry up. So adding sealant every 6 months even if you Don't ride the bike is necessary. Then your nice light tire has both hard old sealant and new sealant in it.

Gotcha, thanks!

[Mark McM]

Tubeless will seal small punctures. It will easily seal thorns. It will not seal bigger cuts. It is a disaster with bigger cuts and higher pressures. It will spew sticky sealant everywhere. On your bike, on you and anyone riding with you.

The majority of my on-road punctures are small punctures (such as from a wire or a nail) - but its not the vast majority. A good 20-25% are from larger cuts. With standard clinchers, small punctures still require stopping to replace the tube. But this can be done in just a few minutes, and doesn't happen often enough to balance out the bigger mess caused by a large cut with tubeless tires.

It will not pinch flat very easily, but neither will clinchers if you keep them inflated with on road use.

In the 'bad old days' of narrow tires and rims, a good fraction of my flats were pinch flats. But now that I've moved to wider tires and rims, pinch flats have virtually disappeared for me.

The sealant will dry up. So adding sealant every 6 months even if you Don't ride the bike is necessary. Then your nice light tire has both hard old sealant and new sealant in it.

This what what's sealed the decision for me. I've got a goodly number of wheels, some I ride often, and some I ride not so often, but all which would need periodic maintenance if they used sealant. The rare occasion that I would need to spend 5 minutes on the side of the road replacing a tube on th side of the road would be less than the time to maintain my multiple wheel sets if they used sealant. I don't know the complete answer, but I used to have several flats a year, but I haven't had one in the last 3 years (about 10,000 miles).

[teleguy57]

I'm running tubulars for most training and fast rides -- 27/28mm (currently Vlaanderens). I'm running 35mm tubeless for gravel etc.

I don't have any interest in going tubeless for road; don't think I get any improvements in performance (as I'm not doing time trials or racing), puncture resistance by going tubeless and in my one tubeless mounting experience vs my many-year experience with tubular mounting I'm just as good with mounting tubulars.

YMMV but I'm good with my choices.

[denapista]

This again?????

People are quick to knock tubulars and the flatting... Its literally the same sealant you're putting in a tubeless tire.. tubular tires are built with better construction (Puncture protection belts). I'm going on 5-6 years straight on Tubulars only.. Rarely flat.. I ride dirt, fire roads and LA streets without any issues.

[colker]

This again?????



It´s quarentine.

[denapista]

It´s quarentine.

beware of the quarantine threads!

[Wakatel_Luum]

Tubulars for me as I rarely puncture and I swap between bikes so I’m really not keen on the idea of goup pooling at the bottom of my wheels hardening over time...and I have a fondness for old world nostalgia.

[Gummee]

Lately it's been tubeless on mtn and gravel for me. Clinchers on the road bikes.

I'm rebuilding wheels with TA hubs (Bitex) and have a pair of Reflex/Open Pro rims, an additoinal front wheel rebuilt so far. I just haven't gotten to the 2nd rear wheel yet.

Tubulars still ride much better than tubeless.

Racing CX, they don't burp. There is a possibility of rolling em if you don't glue em right tho.

M

[echappist]

Tubular glue is a total PITA to remove, more so than mounting of a tubular tyre.

As mentioned above, tubeless is downright abysmal when inflated above 70 psi. They are great for MTB though.

Since all I do are ITTs now, tubeless for Crr reasons (there, I said it), but were I still doing road racing, I'd be riding tubulars

I want to just ride solely on tubulars, but I am concerned about durability. We have a trail of fine gravel and limestone, and I worry if it may be too much for racing tubulars.

[kppolich]

Tubulars for cyclocross
Tubeless for crap city roads
Tubeless for MTB
Cell phone for disasters

[b3pkay]

Over 10,000 miles on tubeless wheels with one roadside repair. Never been sprayed by sealant, plugged holes that sealant didn't fully seal at home (usually discovered day after damage heading out on the next ride), and avoided countless pinch flats by not having tubes. I'm sold.

[Tommasini53]

Gotcha, thanks!

A simple plug kit will seal up larger punctures. Super easy and effective. If you are quick you can push the plug in before the tire deflates.

[CAAD]

Tubular here. Ill wear out tires before I get a flat. Much lighter wheel system. I use the Effetto Mariposa Carogna tape. Stuff is so easy to use and the tire just peels off with close to zero residue. If I had to glue again I might rethink clinchers. But I do run tubeless on the gravel (low pressure only), MTB tubeless again low pressure.

[floxy1]

Currently on road tubulars, tubeless CX and MTB. I haven’t had great experience with road tubeless and flats.

[oldpotatoe]

Bow down to the rolling resistance gods. That's going to get the punters over.

You know the tubular game is up when Campy is putting out tubeless aero wheels with no tubular option in sight.

Differences in rolling resistance is lost in the noise. Comfort, safety, cornering performance WAY more important. 'Punters' use 3rd, 4th, 10th hand info about how tubulars is some sort of black art. Most have never even seen a tubular wheel let alone actually use them. It's the stuff of coffee shops and website BS..

'WTO' version only. Bora is still tubular or clincher.
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Wheels/bora_ultra_50

[gemship]

Not to get off topic, heck I may post this reply in a more appropriate thread but here goes....If we are all stuck at home then is it fair to say this lock down of freedom may halt online supplies/commerce of bike parts?

[colker]

Not to get off topic, heck I may post this reply in a more appropriate thread but here goes....If we are all stuck at home then is it fair to say this lock down of freedom may halt online supplies/commerce of bike parts?

One of the reasons the stock markets are going down.

[Vamoots58]

Been tubular only for about five years. Don't own any clinchers. Have four sets of tubular wheels:

Lightweight Meilenstein 24E
Corima Aero +
Campy Bora 2
CK/ENVE 25

Been using Carogna tape with very satisfactory results for a couple of years. Super easy mounting, adjusting and ultimately removal...

[colker]

Tubular rim and tire connection is a simple structure. It makes for a simple rim which becomes lighter. Ride quality is supreme. Why abandon such a perfect working thing for more complexity? Racing bikes demand rider interaction and physical expertise anyway. Gluing a tire is not such a big deal.

I am not a luddite. Older is not necessarily better but simple is always better; unless there is a tremendous quality leap along w/ complexity. That does not happen w/ tires.The mechanical structure of a clincher rim/tire connection is way more complex than tubular.

I understand clinchers were made for people who ride eventually and take the bike to a shop to fix a flat. The shop will fix it on the spot w/ a new tube instead of gluing and waiting for it to be safe. Taking the same approach to race bikes was non sense because ride quality was lost.
Then came tubeless w/ an even more complex structure while at the same time primitive w/ tape and goo. Why get rid of the benchmark and have more complexity?

[FlashUNC]

Again, lower rolling resistance and a puncture resistance on par with, or better than, tubulars.

And people really, really hate gluing tires apparently.

For all their positives, manufacturers are abandoning tubulars because they don't sell.

[terry]

A great time to be a tubular lover-so many great deals with people dumping them for cheap money. I don’t foresee me ever riding anything else. Gluing is a labor of love for me. I never understood why people will spend $10K on a bike and are reticent to even try something that by all accounts contributes to a better ride.

[colker]

Gluing is a labor of love for me. .

This^^^^

[echappist]

Gluing tires is almost therapeutic

Taking off the glue residue is often accompanied by paroxysm.

Also don’t forget that both the glue and the solvents used to remove the glue are really bad for you (toluene)

[rain dogs]

Having used all three, here are a few IMHO's

- there is no one-size-fits-all answer. Each has their time and place
- if you're having MORE trouble with tubeless than tubular you're doing it wrong.
- I wound't use anything in a velodrome but tubular
- I wouldn't use anything but tubeless on a gravel/all-road bike
- gluing is either time consuming or slow full process turn-around or both no matter how you define it, and any other way of saying it is kool-aid. You simply cannot start with new products and be on the road safely in 30min. or less with Tubular.
- mounting and sealing tubeless can be a frustrating, exhausting and fiddly process no matter how you define it WITH certain brand combos, and if you don't have a compressor. Others are easier than with a tube.

Just as I don't see myself ever buying a new bike without disk brakes, the same goes with tubeless. I most likely will never use tubular again and I will only use "clinchers" in the event of a flat* and a needed tube, which in 2+, almost 3 years has not happened once. Keep in mind, I don't see myself ever buying a traditional "road bike" (ie. pro-tour like racing bike) again.

*(or on bikes which are yet to be tubeless)

so, short answer: Tubeless.

[thwart]

A great time to be a tubular lover-so many great deals with people dumping them for cheap money. I don’t foresee me ever riding anything else. Gluing is a labor of love for me. I never understood why people will spend $10K on a bike and are reticent to even try something that by all accounts contributes to a better ride.

This.

Right now a rim brake bike (old technology) with tubular wheels (ancient technology) is going for pennies on the dollar.

[colker]

This.

Right now a rim brake bike (old technology) with tubular wheels (ancient technology) is going for pennies on the dollar.

I don´t know . I am looking for a 100 bucks Tommasini tecno and can´t find it anywhere.;)
The great bikes still have tall prices.

[dpdan93]

Over 10,000 miles on tubeless wheels with one roadside repair. Never been sprayed by sealant, plugged holes that sealant didn't fully seal at home (usually discovered day after damage heading out on the next ride), and avoided countless pinch flats by not having tubes. I'm sold.

The Paceline forum gods are probably having strokes just reading such blasphemy!!! :rolleyes:

[Jeff N.]

Neither.

[R3awak3n]

tubulars ride nice but they are extra work and for some (me) I am not willing to have to think about that, I don't want to bring an extra tire with me (there goes all the weight savings), I don't want to glue stuff. I just want to ride my bike. But they do ride super nice, that is a fact, I loved the ride for the brief moment I had a tubular wheelset.

tubeless is not that big of a deal to setup... just like tubular, its a process but when you have it down its MUCH easier than tubular. Also if you get caught out and can't seal the hole, you can just throw a tube in. Use what you like of course... Even tubes are fine.

[AngryScientist]

for road, i am a convert to latex tubes.

i challenge anyone to tell me there is an appreciable ride improvement with tubulars over a well built box section clincher with top tires and latex tubes.

i still like tubulars, but the argument that they ride better is no longer valid, the good clincher tires ride just as well.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZXlKsNPAIGU/W7zLWa7kgVI/AAAAAAAADIE/9afHw4XVxvoqjMissPxs6teoEq880_bsQCLcBGAs/s1200/IMG_3213.JPG

[R3awak3n]

I tried latex tubes. Gonna be honest did not notice much but I usually don't. Also was very annoyed I had to pump them before each ride :eek::banana:

[robt57]

I tried latex tubes. Gonna be honest did not notice much but I usually don't. Also was very annoyed I had to pump them before each ride :eek::banana:

My friend said that after getting some on my suggestion. He put them in some hardskin version of something to get them to ride nicer.

If the sidewall of the tire one uses is highly inflexible and heavy duty, I can see how it would be a waste putting in latex tubes.

He also still uses 100lb air for some reason. And he is the exact person to not check tire pressures before grabbing a bike for a ride.

I check pressures before every ride regardless of tube type personally. Even now @ my lightest for decades of 198lb. But when 230-235 for years, even more important...

As far as tubeless VS tubulars. The only puncture I have not had sealant concur was my last ride on new tubulars. Literally 15 miles in on a fresh setup. After 25 minutes of partial pumping to allow sealant to try to seal, I'd pump up that last bit for continue riding and it poo out the plug and sealant.

So put on a another new pre glued tire, walked to a dumpster and tossed a 15 mile new tire in, and knew I as done. Sold it all off..

No one seemed to mention whilst fan boying tubulars the spare preglued tire, and how this process is highly vulnerable to getting contaminated prior and during a spare change. Not to mention a less than dry glued on tire for the rest of the ride after a swap.

I have settled into wide rims, 27-30mm tires with latex tubes fo road bikes. And when my 2 tubeless sets wear or need a sealant refresh may get relegated to tubes quite possibly.

I'd add that my last high profile tubular rims did not ride as nice as a 22-6mm profile rim with a 28 lighter clincher tire with a latex tube. Not even with stupid expensive 27mm Paves.

[yinzerniner]

Challenge announced the technology at Eurobike last year but so far haven't seen anything about real world usage.
https://road.cc/content/news/266227-eurobike-2019-tubeless-tubulars-challenge

While mounting tubulars are a pain you can't fault the ride quality. Also the rim construction is simpler and theoretically able to take more abuse since there's no sidewall to break.

The one concern would be if sealant were to be used. Is there any easy way to clean out old sealant from a tubular tire?

[colker]

for road, i am a convert to latex tubes.

i challenge anyone to tell me there is an appreciable ride improvement with tubulars over a well built box section clincher with top tires and latex tubes.

i still like tubulars, but the argument that they ride better is no longer valid, the good clincher tires ride just as well.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZXlKsNPAIGU/W7zLWa7kgVI/AAAAAAAADIE/9afHw4XVxvoqjMissPxs6teoEq880_bsQCLcBGAs/s1200/IMG_3213.JPG

Which rims are those? TB 14?

[robt57]

Now tubeless tubular make much more sense to me. Plug kit on board.

I'd add my worst tubeless puncture was a lumber load plastic anchor with all four points of two T50 stables attaching the plastic rectangle [meant to keep plastic over wood load from tearing the plastic covering said load] to my front tire.

Lucky it did not take carbon off the fork as it made it was around and thru the under brake a few revs before I got stopped.

I pulled it and spun the hole down, and in 3-4 seconds sealed. I lost 35lb, but was 4 miles form home and road back with a fairly low tire. Was surprised to see upon getting home it was 40PSI. It felt like more than that, but I guess tubeless tire have a much stiffer sidewall. I would not have bombed a hill with out pumping it back up, but home was a calm few miles, and I was in cool down mode already anyway.

I can change a tube out in a flat in 2-3 minutes, as compared to the total cool down of a spare tubular remount bout as I described above, pass...

[rain dogs]

for road, i am a convert to latex tubes.

i challenge anyone to tell me there is an appreciable ride improvement with tubulars over a well built box section clincher with top tires and latex tubes.

i still like tubulars, but the argument that they ride better is no longer valid, the good clincher tires ride just as well.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZXlKsNPAIGU/W7zLWa7kgVI/AAAAAAAADIE/9afHw4XVxvoqjMissPxs6teoEq880_bsQCLcBGAs/s1200/IMG_3213.JPG

I'm not even a pro tubulars voice but I don't know about that. On my bikes that aren't tubeless I use Vittoria Corsa G+ tires with vittoria latex tubes and I can tell you they certainly aren't a better ride than the tubulars I have used. Are they much worse?, I dunno, hard to say, what's "much"? but out and out ride quality I'm confident to say quality tubulars are better. It gets to a point of total wankerism.... maybe that's what you're saying.

But we're talking very small amounts. Is it worth all the other extra effort/specific parts, for my riding? No way. No way. Sure, in an indoor velodrome, worth it, anywhere else. Tubeless for me.

It's like weight, which I care about like anyone. But is a 110gr saddle 10times better than a 120gr saddle. Only if your value is in 1gr increments, and if not, makes no difference.

[colker]

My point in the original post is: i believe tubeless is more hassle than tubulars. Maybe i have not learned the necessary technique or only seen bad tire rim choices but if there is something that ruins my moment is trying to fit a tire too tight on a rim. I would much rather deal w/ glue.
Trying to prove one is better than the other is futile. It´s just that dealing w/ the mechanics of installing a tire seems easier w/ tubular.

[robt57]

hmmm...

Strada Bianca Pro tubeless tubular: https://www.challengetires.com/product/tubular/strada-bianca/pro-h-tltu/22876?cat=gravel

[colker]

I'm not even a pro tubulars voice but I don't know about that. On my bikes that aren't tubeless I use Vittoria Corsa G+ tires with vittoria latex tubes and I can tell you they certainly aren't a better ride than the tubulars I have used. Are they much worse?, I dunno, hard to say, what's "much"? but out and out ride quality I'm confident to say quality tubulars are better. It gets to a point of total wankerism.... maybe that's what you're saying.

But we're talking very small amounts. Is it worth all the other extra effort/specific parts, for my riding? No way. No way. Sure, in an indoor velodrome, worth it, anywhere else. Tubeless for me.

It's like weight, which I care about like anyone. But is a 110gr saddle 10times better than a 120gr saddle. Only if your value is in 1gr increments, and if not, makes no difference.

If you ride in cactus land then clinchers are the worst choice of all. Even in asphalt you will have thorns waiting for your tubes.

[djg21]

Tubeless will seal small punctures. It will easily seal thorns. It will not seal bigger cuts. It is a disaster with bigger cuts and higher pressures. It will spew sticky sealant everywhere. On your bike, on you and anyone riding with you.
It will not pinch flat very easily, but neither will clinchers if you keep them inflated with on road use.
The sealant will dry up. So adding sealant every 6 months even if you Don't ride the bike is necessary. Then your nice light tire has both hard old sealant and new sealant in it.

I use sealant and just got a dynaplug pill to keep in my saddlebag for emergencies. http://www.dynaplug.com/pill.html. Last season, I flatted once on my tubeless road wheels and put about 5000 miles on them. The once time I flatted my tire was pretty much on its last legs anyway. I was able to reinflate it enough to get home and change it.

[Mark McM]

If you ride in cactus land then clinchers are the worst choice of all. Even in asphalt you will have thorns waiting for your tubes.

I'm having trouble figuring out that logic. I can understand why tubeless+sealant might be the best option if thorn punctures are common, but how are (standard) clinchers worse than tubulars? With a clincher, you just have to replace the tube (not the whole tire), and you can even quickly and inexpensively patch tubes for re-use. But if you puncture a tubular, you either have to go through a time consuming (or expensive) repair, or toss the whole tire. With clinchers and a (small lighweight) patch kit, you can get a dozen thorn punctures on a ride, and still complete the ride. Can you do that with tubulars?

[echappist]

I'm having trouble figuring out that logic. I can understand why tubeless+sealant might be the best option if thorn punctures are common, but how are (standard) clinchers worse than tubulars? With a clincher, you just have to replace the tube (not the whole tire), and you can even quickly and inexpensively patch tubes for re-use. But if you puncture a tubular, you either have to go through a time consuming (or expensive) repair, or toss the whole tire. With clinchers and a (small lighweight) patch kit, you can get a dozen thorn punctures on a ride, and still complete the ride. Can you do that with tubulars?

Presumably, one would ride home on flatted tubulars, which one normally can't do with clinchers

[colker]

I'm having trouble figuring out that logic. I can understand why tubeless+sealant might be the best option if thorn punctures are common, but how are (standard) clinchers worse than tubulars? With a clincher, you just have to replace the tube (not the whole tire), and you can even quickly and inexpensively patch tubes for re-use. But if you puncture a tubular, you either have to go through a time consuming (or expensive) repair, or toss the whole tire. With clinchers and a (small lighweight) patch kit, you can get a dozen thorn punctures on a ride, and still complete the ride. Can you do that with tubulars?

I was living in central mexico and would have 2, 3 flats a week. Sometimes 2 flats in one day. I had tubes w/ me. I did arrive home everytime but i was sick of it. I would flat everywhere.
That was ten years ago, tubeless was arriving and i didn´t have it. With tubulars and a bit of goo i would keep going but if i ever go back to that place i will ride tubeless. Tubeless was made for thorn country.

[Mark McM]

Presumably, one would ride home on flatted tubulars, which one normally can't do with clinchers

Sadly, I've had a few cases in which I flatted a clincher without a spare tube, or without a working pump, or with a tear in the casing too big to be booted. In which case, I rode the flatted clincher home without a problem. In none of these cases did I damage the rim, and in some cases I was able to continue using the tire (with an inflated tube, of course).

Jobst Brandt used to tell stories about how he'd occasionally ride a flatted tire by filling the tube with water. Tires work just about as well filled with water as they do with air (hint: They don't rely on the compressibility of air), they just weight more. But the water leaks out more slowly than air, so he could get quite a few miles before having to refill the tire with water.

[gibbo]

First, let me say those are nice looking wheels! I would agree that ride quality between "good" clinchers with latex tubes is very close to tubulars. I would say that the weight benefit of tubular rims is significant though. To drop 200 - 300 grams of rotational weight is something you will feel in a hard acceleration or on a long climb. :-)


for road, i am a convert to latex tubes.

i challenge anyone to tell me there is an appreciable ride improvement with tubulars over a well built box section clincher with top tires and latex tubes.

i still like tubulars, but the argument that they ride better is no longer valid, the good clincher tires ride just as well.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZXlKsNPAIGU/W7zLWa7kgVI/AAAAAAAADIE/9afHw4XVxvoqjMissPxs6teoEq880_bsQCLcBGAs/s1200/IMG_3213.JPG

[giordana93]

My point in the original post is: i believe tubeless is more hassle than tubulars. Maybe i have not learned the necessary technique or only seen bad tire rim choices but if there is something that ruins my moment is trying to fit a tire too tight on a rim. I would much rather deal w/ glue.
Trying to prove one is better than the other is futile. It´s just that dealing w/ the mechanics of installing a tire seems easier w/ tubular.

I've tried to resist commenting on this thread, because it is kinda futile as you note, but really, the first time you glued a tubular, did it go all that smoothly? Tubulars have some advantages, as proponents will note, but some obvious disadvantages as well. I'm not going to re-hash either the plus or minus here. it's a beaten to death horse. I do, however, have some experience with road tubeless so want to set the record straight on a few points:

*once you know the basics, set up really isn't hard--at all. I installed a pair of Conti 5000's the other night and it took all of 15 minutes

*it's true some rim/tire combos are a bear but this is equally true with clinchers; as time goes on, this should get better as no one wants a blow off, so tires have tended to be tighter and rims err on larger. But the Contis were pretty good, certainly easier than a good number of clinchers I've done in the past.

*don't want to get lost in the rolling resistance argument, but tubeless tires are fast, certainly not slower than tubulars

*ride quality: no, the tubeless casing will not match the suppleness of a nice tubular, but it is also a helluva lot tougher too. A fat 28 at 75 psi gives a cushy ride that floats over rough surfaces yet isn't remotely sluggish even in 32mph sprints and fast pacelines--and will never pinch flat

*when a tubeless tire gets gummed up with old sealant you pull the bugger out; you may decide to kill the tire on winter rides with a tube in it until it's threadbare; you throw an expensive tubular out, or get your sewing kit out, or send it to some guy who repairs them, whatever. don't want to belabor the point but tubeless really are simpler. and if you feel like mounting a standard clincher on your tubeless-ready wheels, you're free to do so

*there are still some growing pains with regard to taping, standards and so on that will eventually get sorted out, but these days there is more ignorance than knowledge of best practices out there

*if I had a stash of nice tubular wheels and tires (or access to reasonably priced ones--a real problem in the US--or unlimited funds to buy nice ones) I doubt I'd make the switch, but when I got the disc bike, I went tubeless and there's no way I'd invest in tubulars now. And yes I cut my teeth in the 80s on tubulars, but they were race day/Sunday rides only, whereas now I don't hesitate to ride nice wheels and pretty tough, self-sealing tires that are comfy and fast without "the hassle" of tubulars (tongue-in-cheek recycling of quote above)

cheers to winter threads:beer:

[robertbb]

No one seemed to mention whilst fan boying tubulars the spare preglued tire, and how this process is highly vulnerable to getting contaminated prior and during a spare change. Not to mention a less than dry glued on tire for the rest of the ride after a swap.



Right... which means you can't really push the bike for the rest of a ride post-switch because you're not confident in the bond. Nor do they mention the extra weight of carrying the spare, the extra expense of tyres (which over time makes the "cheaper" tubular wheelset not that much cheaper), the limitation of having only one spare tyre with you (as opposed to two or more tubes which are far smaller/lighter...), the increased rolling resistance...

As has been said, a modern 28mm "open" clincher (the Veloflex corsa/master are amazing) with latex tube feels and handles every bit as well as a tubular. Plus there's a "carbon safe" SPS version of these tyres now for those who want to run carbon rims.

[perdido2000]

My point in the original post is: i believe tubeless is more hassle than tubulars. Maybe i have not learned the necessary technique or only seen bad tire rim choices but if there is something that ruins my moment is trying to fit a tire too tight on a rim. I would much rather deal w/ glue.

Trying to prove one is better than the other is futile. It´s just that dealing w/ the mechanics of installing a tire seems easier w/ tubular.These two utensils have made tubeless installation much easier for me.

The tire lever plier thing is very convenient although it will scratch rim decals.

The air canister is a good substitute for air compressors for this application.

I've only used tubeless for mtb and gravel but I assume road tubeless would be no different. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200319/1c1ccace439182bc68bc279b7f926029.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200319/331d84961e6b8827be1d8c49e75a2e26.jpg

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[fmradio516]

These two utensils have made tubeless installation much easier for me.

The tire lever plier thing is very convenient although it will scratch rim decals.


Are you able to get the tire pliers over a mountain bike tire? I wasnt able to clear the tire when i tried.

[Davist]

I "inherited" a set of GP5k 32c tubeless from a buddy who didn't like them. Put them on with a floor pump, cheaped out on the valves (orange seal old style with the O rings), sprayed myself a bit while doing the "shake and bake" of the wheels, but got them going in 15 minutes a piece, have been pleasantly surprised so far. They do run a bit skinny for continental/almost true to size. I think I'll leave them on for a while. The tires do seem "fast", but not sure if it's the 5ks or the tubeless or me riding on 47c horizons most of the last month or two (most likely!).

I used tubeless on the gravel bike, so wasn't averse.

My tubular days were the "cheapest I could find" for a hand me down track bike, so I never experienced the ride quality described, hope to try someday.

[Wattvagen]

Tubulars always on the road for me.

[cgolvin]

Been using Carogna tape with very satisfactory results for a couple of years. Super easy mounting, adjusting and ultimately removal...

To you and the other Carogna tape fans out there: have you switched any of your rims from glue to tape, and if so how perfectly do you have to clean the rims of glue before applying tape?

I'm tempted to give tape a try but do not look forward to having to completely clean the existing glue off the rims.

[kppolich]

To you and the other Carogna tape fans out there: have you switched any of your rims from glue to tape, and if so how perfectly do you have to clean the rims of glue before applying tape?

I'm tempted to give tape a try but do not look forward to having to completely clean the existing glue off the rims.

Check out my post here. I cleaned up an alloy rim and went with tape. I got it cleannnnnn.
Front is still glued, rear is taped. Lasted all season and still rock solid.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=168489&page=4&highlight=Tubular+Tape

[Kirk007]

So what's the next Campy wheelset purchase for a rim brake road bike - WTO 45 or Bora 35/50 tubulars? I do find it curious that Campy didn't adopt the aero shape of the WTO rim in a tubular model.

[FlashUNC]

So what's the next Campy wheelset purchase for a rim brake road bike - WTO 45 or Bora 35/50 tubulars? I do find it curious that Campy didn't adopt the aero shape of the WTO rim in a tubular model.

Rolling....resistance....

Rightly on wrongly, that's the big reason Campy bagged the tubulars.

[colker]

Rolling....resistance....

Rightly on wrongly, that's the big reason Campy bagged the tubulars.

Question: what tires are used on the big tours and spring classics since campagnolo ditched their tubulars? Tubular or clincher?

[FlashUNC]

Question: what tires are used on the big tours and spring classics since campagnolo ditched their tubulars? Tubular or clincher?

If you're a Campy sponsored team, increasingly the tubeless WTO wheels.

[Mark McM]

Rolling....resistance....

Rightly on wrongly, that's the big reason Campy bagged the tubulars.

If that were the real reason, Campy would have bagged tubulars years ago (yes, it was known by anyone paying attention the last few decades that clinchers have had lower rolling resistance than tubulars.)

The real reason that Campy bagged tubulars was due to the decreasing popularity of tubulars.

Tubulars were already making their way out the door when carbon rims became popular. Because it was difficult to make carbon clinchers, those who wanted carbon rims were forced to use tubular tires. Now that carbon rim technology has made carbon clinchers more practical, those who want carbon rims no longer have to use tubulars.

(Additional factors include the increased popularity of disc brakes and tubeless tires, and the the move to wider tires, and there is just no advantage to tubular tires for the majority of riders.)

Look at what's happened in aluminum rims. There are many, many aluminum clincher rims available, but very few aluminum tubular rims. There's just no market for tubular rims anymore.

[oldpotatoe]

Rolling....resistance....

Rightly on wrongly, that's the big reason Campy bagged the tubulars.

They HAVEN'T 'bagged their tubulars'..ONLY WTO versions are NOT tubular, these aimed at the tri/TT market where. Like in Tri, NO neutral support..if ya get a flat, ya gotta fix it yourself. Tubulars in tri races make no sense.

https://www.bellatisport.com/shop/product/2515/Campagnolo_Bora_Ultra_50_tub_2020_-Promo.html
If you're a Campy sponsored team, increasingly the tubeless WTO wheels.


Sorry charlie, not true. One thing that Campag DOES do is put big labels on their wheels.

[superbowlpats]

Been using Carogna tape with very satisfactory results for a couple of years. Super easy mounting, adjusting and ultimately removal...

This. I've raced CX the last 2 seasons with no issues. I bought another pair of used CX wheels and I've been spending most of the winter off and on trying to get the glue off so i can mount a new set tires with tape. (note to self, never buy another set of tubbies that have been glued).

on the road its clinchers with tubes for me.

[FlashUNC]

They HAVEN'T 'bagged their tubulars'..ONLY WTO versions are NOT tubular, these aimed at the tri/TT market where. Like in Tri, NO neutral support..if ya get a flat, ya gotta fix it yourself. Tubulars in tri races make no sense.

https://www.bellatisport.com/shop/product/2515/Campagnolo_Bora_Ultra_50_tub_2020_-Promo.html


Sorry charlie, not true. One thing that Campag DOES do is put big labels on their wheels.

If the WTOs were aimed at the TT/Tri market, why do they make a 33mm depth one?

Team Movistar for the last two seasons was using nothing but WTO wheels. If you're riding a disc bike from them it's WTO wheels.

Sorry charlie, we can trade google photo links all day if you want.

https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/tour-de-france-2019-valverde-canyon-ultimate-cf-slx-1-2.jpg

[perdido2000]

Are you able to get the tire pliers over a mountain bike tire? I wasnt able to clear the tire when i tried.It's been a while since I used the tool on a mtb tire...I don't recall having issues with a regular 29x2.1 tire.

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[oldpotatoe]

If the WTOs were aimed at the TT/Tri market, why do they make a 33mm depth one?

Team Movistar for the last two seasons was using nothing but WTO wheels. If you're riding a disc bike from them it's WTO wheels.

Sorry charlie, we can trade google photo links all day if you want.



You mentioned Campagnolo is 'bagging tubular wheels'
Rightly on wrongly, that's the big reason Campy bagged the tubulars.


I'm saying that's not accurate, is all..And of the 3 teams, one who has gone to the dark side for 2020, in spite of NO pro racing this year, probably, the others still use tubulars to race on.

:)