anyone still doing group rides in light of current events?

[Miljack]

I'm going riding today, anybody else leery of a group ride??

[OtayBW]

I have absolutely no reluctance to ride in a group. Just no snot rockets, or else pull for the whole ride.....

[johnniecakes]

Heading with few friends later this afternoon for a ride, no reservations about it

[sg8357]

Rode with a few friends, everybody brought their own snacks,
we skipped the kwik mart, just ate in their parking lot.

[9tubes]

Yep, a cool but sunny day here.

[David in Maine]

Had a great 50 mile ride with 8 pals yesterday. Only 3 cases here in Maine so far, so I felt OK. Don't expect club rides to continue for long.

David

[mktng]

Went today. I decided to keep a good 6 meters from the rider in front of me.

I was at the back.

It was actually against my will.

Yay Spring

[Spdntrxi]

this weekend rain.. next weekend rain.. so no group rides for me. Otherwise I have no issues doing them (minus snot rockets totally illegal now)

so it will be at least 2 weeks before I have a chance for a proper group ride.

[NHAero]

I rode the weekly Sunday morning MTB ride. Just 5 of us, and I just kept my distance, not too hard in the woods

[kppolich]

Paceline group Zwift ride Tuesday?

[GParkes]

Easy 2 1/2 hours on the road with four friends, great day, no worries. Fresh air and sun can't hurt.

[kiwisimon]

nope, not yet.

[spoonrobot]

I stopped back in early February. I've listened to enough cycling podcasts about the flu or cold or "crud" that goes around the professional peloton and it did not seem unreasonable that a group of amateurs had the potential to be similarly afflicted. At times it's a rolling cloud of coughs, sneezes, sweat, spit and so forth. I'd rather miss most or all of the season than get sick or get someone else sick.

[Matthew]

I will absolutely do a group ride. Guessing my riding buddies would decline going if they felt ill. I would stay home if I wasn't feeling great. Common sense.

[mod6]

Hit the woods with a group of 15 today. Everyone was pretty well spread out. Chatting before and after the ride everyone keep a reasonable distance. I would continue ridding like this.

[KJMUNC]

yep, team formally sent out a note stating “no formal team/group rides”, so we just organized a small band of 6 for a fast up/back to Malibu. streets were wet so after getting sprayed in the face a bit i just decided to sit on the front. solved both issues pretty easily and i got a great workout.

[FlashUNC]

I'll be skipping group stuff for the next few weeks. Risk of any one of us being asymptomatic carriers is just too high.

[joosttx]

I’m telling myself one other person. But that maybe one more to many in reality.

[Burning Pines]

Struggling to decide whether to mtb with a couple friends this week.

IMO drafting would be too close, so casual or non-road groups only for me, if that.

Obviously can’t share a car to the trailhead though.

[weaponsgrade]

I went out with three other friends today. We stayed apart at the water stops, but were drafting each other a bit. I'm going to stop.

[jr59]

I don’t ride in group rides anymore, but this happened long before this beer virus came to light

[PQJ]

No. I happened upon a group on Saturday and couldn’t resist the urge to join a bit but quickly reminded myself why I was riding solo and dropped back. Group rides and rides with mates are great fun; just not now.

[JStonebarger]

Riding in a pack is the polar opposite of the social distancing we need right now. It's irresponsible.

[djdj]

+1

[oldpotatoe]

I'll be skipping group stuff for the next few weeks. Risk of any one of us being asymptomatic carriers is just too high.

Agree..as an otherwise healthy 69yo with a healthy 69yo wife who has well controlled asthma..no riding with anybody else. WHY take the chance? I guess a way to say F___Coronavirus but ya know, that little bugger doesn't care..

[JStonebarger]

Healthy 50-something direct care provider. I have physical contact with strangers daily. You don't want me in your group ride.

Young and Unafraid of the Coronavirus Pandemic? Good for You. Now Stop Killing People | Opinion (https://www.newsweek.com/young-unafraid-coronavirus-pandemic-good-you-now-stop-killing-people-opinion-1491797?fbclid=IwAR1gewjn_wOCqsi34PRirJUFT1lfooJ15 mF3brc6rWxEArJWnbiiv68Rjfg)

[Miljack]

Thanks for all the replies, it's kinda what I expected. Here in my area it's still cool, so sweat is not a big risk, but, why take the chance of riding in a pack.

[palincss]

Riding in a pack is the polar opposite of the social distancing we need right now. It's irresponsible.

I don't disagree. However, "riding in a pack" and "group ride" are not synonymous. I haven't been in a paceline since the 1990s, and nobody pacelines on my rides. Ride a couple of car lengths apart and everybody follow a few simple rules - for example, quoting from a recent post on the DC Randonneurs list, these:


Stay at home if you begin to feel unwell, even with mild symptoms such as headache and slight runny nose, until you recover. (WHO)
Bring a handkerchief or rag to carry on the ride. Kleenex, tissues and such don't do so well when mixed with sweat.
Masks do not provide protection. The virus is spread by respiratory droplets (from coughing or sneezing). The virus particles are so tiny that they pass easily through the material. If you are ill yourself, using a face mask may help limit droplets spread by coughing or sneezing. (CDC)
Practice a no touch policy. Avoid shaking hands, unnecessary hugs and the like. We all love each other for sure, but show a little restraint for now.
Avoid touching your eyes, nose and mouth (WHO)
Cover your coughs and sneezes with a tissue, then throw the tissue in the trash. (CDC)
On the ride, no snot rockets or spitting, or... drop off the very back of the group to perform this act.
Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds. If soap and water are not readily available, use a hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol. (CDC)
Clean frequently touched surfaces and objects (handlebars, water bottles, gloves, etc) using a regular household detergent and water prior to disinfection. (CDC)


and you will be social distancing and won't be irresponsible.

[JStonebarger]

Ride a couple of car lengths apart and everybody follow a few simple rules...and you will be social distancing and won't be irresponsible.

I'd love to believe that, but... will people in your group ride do all that? Can cyclists really be herded into social distancing? (Honest question...)

Many infectious people will be symptom-free. Those with symptoms can be infectious for days before.

Without testing it's safest to assume everyone you come in contact has been exposed. And that you have too.

[redir]

Here's an interesting take on it.

https://www.wattkg.com/covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR3KE8ojUy-8f46PQz4Cul7K8SN5ehY9tWiU6nrgvNFsChg6AGAmlge5vJs

[AngryScientist]

Here's my take on it: thousands of people right now have to make hard decisions about going to work or not, losing a paycheck, their livelihood, childcare, etc. Huge impacts to peoples lives.

If we have to make a decision to have a little less fun or enjoyment, that's a no-brainer.

solo riding/running for me.

[Red Tornado]

I have absolutely no reluctance to ride in a group. Just no snot rockets, or else pull for the whole ride.....

This..... and our group will probably do more paceline work the next several weeks, or ride as a group but not in a super close "pack".

[nobuseri]

Would have to agree with this, wholeheartedly.

Here's my take on it: thousands of people right now have to make hard decisions about going to work or not, losing a paycheck, their livelihood, childcare, etc. Huge impacts to peoples lives.

If we have to make a decision to have a little less fun or enjoyment, that's a no-brainer.

solo riding/running for me.

[Robot870]

No groups for me......Snots getting blown everywhere!

[benb]

I seemed to have strained my hamstring so this is all somewhat a moot point for a little while for me. Being bent over in the riding position seems to aggravate it. Even if I hadn't this is usually base time for me so group rides are counter-productive.

We just got all our parks/athletic fields/playgrounds ordered closed yesterday because too many people were congregating at them.

They explicitly said the town trails are being left open as an option but no organized group walks/hikes/runs and everyone needs to stay away from each other on the trails.

So I think it could be possible group rides get broken up too.

Our county is #1 for cases in MA so everyone is being cautious.

Our restaurants/bars/cafes are now shut down except for delivery/take out too...

[JanG]

Cycling colleagues of mine in Torino, Italy, have been working from home for several weeks now. Despite the isolation requirements for work and gatherings, many had still been killing me with photos on Strava of their mostly solo rides. That all changed last week when I noticed all of them posting walks, Zwift, Rouvy, etc. Seems that recreational cycling was banned as part of an all-out effort to reduce ER visits of any kind and the stress on the health system.

I saw last night that Spain has done the same, causing consternation among the pros in Girona.

Jan

[zap]

Group ride yesterday...........and that appears to be the last group ride as this particular club just announced that all group rides are cancelled until early April.

[9tubes]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "group ride." I am in Seattle and more cautious about COVID-19 than most. It's all about calculating the probabilities. For example, I bring groceries in the house but leave all non-perishables in the bags in the basement for a few days before even unpacking them. Why? It's a simple and easy way to lower the risk from goods that have been handled by multiple people (especially the checkout person, who is spreading germs from one customer's goods/hands to the next). All perishables get washed before putting them in the fridge since cold doesn't kill the virus. And it helps keep the virus out of the house. I get out of my clothes when I come in from the store (or anywhere else there are people), then wash my hands and face, then put on fresh clothes. Easy.

So what does a cautious person do about rides? There is nearly no virus risk to riding alone. Sunshine and fresh air were attributed to helping patients during the Spanish flu. The COVID virus is now shown to be killed by UV light. (The study came out last Friday 3/13).

I am not persuaded by the folks who say "but if you fall your emergency will take the services of several ER health professionals." The roads in Seattle are nearly empty and I cannot remember the last time in 30 years of racing and riding that I crashed on my own. We cannot eliminate risk. We are minimizing the probabilities. If we try to do everything to avoid going to the ER we would have to stop driving to the grocery store. The bathtub is statistically more risky than me doing a solo ride with no traffic. Going to the grocery store is very risky by comparison. And don't get me started on the folks who were going to crowded bars, restaurants and music events.

Group rides? Sure, I'll ride with 2-3 experienced riders and keep our distance. Keep it moving; no stops at the coffee shop; any chatting at a stop is done at 6 feet or more. The UV plus wind whipping by makes the risk of transmission extremely low. Ride side-by-side with one other rider and talk? Sure, the wind would blow away the virus before it can get from his mouth to me. Would I do typical casual 15-20 person ride, dawdling at stop signs, stopping to chat where everyone crowds in to hear, etc.? No.

[JohnnyBoston]

Currently living in South Korea which was initially the hottest hot spot. Been riding as much as I always have, weather permitting.

Can't really see any risk of catching CV19 riding alone or with a few friends in the mountains away from the city.

Much higher risk catching it at work.

[JohnnyBoston]

I am not persuaded by the folks who say "but if you fall your emergency will take the services of several ER health professionals."

I'm not buying this either. What about crashing a car? Higher probability than a bike.

[Blue Jays]

Very good tip about leaving non-perishable groceries in the bag, 9tubes.

[oldpotatoe]

Currently living in South Korea which was initially the hottest hot spot. Been riding as much as I always have, weather permitting.

Can't really see any risk of catching CV19 riding alone or with a few friends in the mountains away from the city.

Much higher risk catching it at work.

So, you can be sure the 'friends' are not infected? Unless they live and work with you, I'm guessing not. Just IMHO..Unless I gotta, I'm not interacting with anybody but my family. And not thrilled with 3 of them who are still going to work.

[benb]

He's in SK so he's probably much safer.... good place to be right now. If I was in SK I'd feel better about going for a ride than here in Massachusetts.

My brother has the lucky/unlucky coincidence of having gone to Qatar for work for about 3 months. (He is an engineer working on Patriot missile batteries.)

He's feeling better being there. He is still going to work, but he's staying in a locked down complex, and he says Qatar fully locked down the whole country right away. Probably safer there.

On top of having a sore hamstring it is snowing here now.. so moot point. My plan is to do some weight lifting today and avoid the hamstring.

[OtayBW]

... I bring groceries in the house but leave all non-perishables in the bags in the basement for a few days before even unpacking them. Why? It's a simple and easy way to lower the risk from goods that have been handled by multiple people (especially the checkout person, who is spreading germs from one customer's goods/hands to the next). This is a good point that I hadn't considered (and I just came back from an early morning run to the supermarket....

[benb]

This is a good point that I hadn't considered (and I just came back from an early morning run to the supermarket....

Even your mail is suspect if you're in full paranoia.

But I have no idea what is a practical way to get around this kind of thing.

I purposely left the trash cans out in the sun for hours yesterday after the trash was collected. Viruses don't really like UV radiation for example.

For mail & packages I've just been making sure to not touch my face and wash hands ASAP.

It still seems way safer to order stuff and have it left on your front step than to go to the store.

[OtayBW]

Even your mail is suspect if you're in full paranoia.

But I have no idea what is a practical way to get around this kind of thing.

I purposely left the trash cans out in the sun for hours yesterday after the trash was collected. Viruses don't really like UV radiation for example.

For mail & packages I've just been making sure to not touch my face and wash hands ASAP.

It still seems way safer to order stuff and have it left on your front step than to go to the store.Haha - I don't know that I'm in full paranoia, but then there IS NO (practical) way to get fully around this. I brought a disinfectant wipe to the store for the cart, and I limit pretty seriously what I touch, but to be honest with you, I hadn't thought about mail and shopping bags, and grocery products. You make a fair point, but at this stage, while cautious, I think I'm a little more liberal than you on this. But - that said, these days, all bets are probably off!

[okayku]

San Francisco and five other Bay Area counties effectively banned group rides for the next three weeks (and likely longer). I would have no problem doing a ride with one or two of my riding buddies but a club or bike shop group ride is out of the question at this point where everyone should be trying to limit the spread of covid-19.

[Jeff N.]

Drove up to Solvang for the annual Century last weekend which was, of course, cancelled. Got in about 70 miles with my buds anyway, noodling around the valley. So gorgeous up there. Hit the local breweries/wineries as well.

[OtayBW]

San Francisco and five other Bay Area counties effectively banned group rides for the next three weeks (and likely longer). I would have no problem doing a ride with one or two of my riding buddies but a club or bike shop group ride is out of the question at this point where everyone should be trying to limit the spread of covid-19.Agreed, and an added benefit is that for one or two of my friends who are more interested in pulling up next to you to gab, it provides the opportunity to ask then to STFU and get away with it! [emoji38]

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[9tubes]

Agreed, and an added benefit is that for one or two of my friends who are more interested in pulling up next to you to gab, it provides the opportunity to ask then to STFU and get away with it!

Why is it that some riders know when to talk and some riders seem clueless about the unwritten rules?

Or more important, what is a deft and polite method of telling people that talking over their shoulder to the person behind in a paceline at 22 mph is not quite the smart move? Or how to motivate those who think it's a good idea to dawdle while pulling away from stop sign in order to have a conversation, while the rest of the group speeds up the road?

[dsimon]

I swear you people are such a bunch of wimps i ride in a group every time i ride
-me
-myself
-I


Nobody likes me...HAHAHAHA

:banana::banana::banana:

[Keith A]

Most of my riding is with a group, and the sizes range from a handful of riders to 30. One of our regular rides was last night, and I was a little hesitate about going. Our county only has one reported case of coronavirus, which is related to travel, so I decided to go ahead and ride. For the most part, there was about the same turnout, but I didn't socialize before or after the ride as normal -- although some folks did chat for a bit.

There was only one case of a snot rocket, and the guy dropped to the back of the paceline to let it fly.

[MO Will]

Just wondering what folks are thinking about group rides now. All of the larger organized rides are cancelled. But folks are getting antsy and there are now lots of folks going out in groups of 3 to 10. I have mixed feelings! Love the social aspect of riding outdoors and getting tired of zoom on the indoor trainer. Anyone try to ride with a mask? Love to get folks thoughts!

[AngryScientist]

Just wondering what folks are thinking about group rides now. All of the larger organized rides are cancelled. But folks are getting antsy and there are now lots of folks going out in groups of 3 to 10. I have mixed feelings! Love the social aspect of riding outdoors and getting tired of zoom on the indoor trainer. Anyone try to ride with a mask? Love to get folks thoughts!

where do you live?

As i posted elsewhere, here in NJ the governor just OK'd outdoor gatherings of 25 or less people outdoors, so group rides would be OK, from a legal standpoint.

from my perspective at this point, it would depend on the group. if it was a small group of friends i knew well, and i could reasonably believe they have been socially distancing pretty well, and we could all be on board that if one of us gets sick, we notify each other immediately - i think it would be OK.

if i didnt know the group that well, or some members of the group are essential workers and working daily at a hospital, let's say - i would be less inclined to ride with them.

overall, i think as long as everyone keeps some amount of distance, doesnt hug and share beer glasses afterwards, i think the risks outdoors are pretty low.

[Tickdoc]

Not riding in groups just yet but not for the obvious reason, but rather because I’ve been enjoying solo rides again!

[XXtwindad]

Just wondering what folks are thinking about group rides now. All of the larger organized rides are cancelled. But folks are getting antsy and there are now lots of folks going out in groups of 3 to 10. I have mixed feelings! Love the social aspect of riding outdoors and getting tired of zoom on the indoor trainer. Anyone try to ride with a mask? Love to get folks thoughts!

How do you define “group?” Time permitting, I’m hoping to join a couple of buddies for a ride tomorrow. No mask. At least not for me.

[Seramount]

group rides...? umm, no, thanks.

no desire to be in the exhalation plume of a bunch of guys, especially if they're exerting hard...

it was bad enough having to pass a single rider today who was gasping like a carp out of water...yuk. held my breath and put as much distance as possible between us.

[Ken Robb]

I live right by the coast route through Mission Beach to Del Mar and have seen quite a few group rides but they are not for me. I have seen articles pointing out that 6' is for too close for cyclists because riding at 20 mph for example is like standing in a 20 mph wind blowing whatever the person in front of you is exhaling right into your face. Then there is evidence that one's risk is very much related to time of exposure so briefly coming within 6' of a person as you walk past each other will not expose either of you to much risk from one another but on a paceline ride you are sitting in a slipstream of potential viral substances from the people in front of you except when it's your pull.

[tbike4]

Yes. With a small group, 6 or 8 of the same people. Not sure if that matters a lick. 37 miles today. There are a bunch of people out, almost too many to pass on the bike path.

[ntb1001]

Local club still has a ban on group rides.


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[Black Dog]

If you are still expected to social distance from people you do not live with why would a group ride be OK? A group walk or a gathering outdoors where people are maintaining some distance is reasonably safe, but to ride behind people breathing hard for multiple hours is a real invitation to inhale viral particles. Remember that people who show no symptoms are shedding a lot of viral particles. If you are comfortable with your chances if you get the virus and will never be in contact with someone who is vulnerable then I guess it is a calculated risk. Never mind the fact that you may be pulling resources if you need to be hospitalized.

I think that we have reached an inflection point in terms of our collective desire to do what needs to be done to stop this virus. Less than 3 months and most folks have reached full "Meh". The numbers of cases in many places are not going down but the rapid opening up with little or no procedures to prevent transmission will certainly come back to bite us all in the arse. We love living in a world where the burden of the many is carried by the few. It is truly fascinating to see how different countries and cultures have done well or poorly against this plague.

[Latestart]

We have a group of 5, don't ride close. Everyone is sheltering in place fairly carefully when not riding.

[Elefantino]

One of the biggest groups in the area was out in force Saturday morning, perhaps 40-50 strong.

[djg21]

I’ve been avoiding them. I don’t want to risk bringing the virus home or transmitting it to someone else if I’m an asymptomatic carrier. The chance of contracting COVID-19 increases dramatically when you come into contact with more people. I’m happy riding alone for now.

[maxim809]

Still riding solo, but it was a zoo out there today.

[gasman]

If you are still expected to social distance from people you do not live with why would a group ride be OK? A group walk or a gathering outdoors where people are maintaining some distance is reasonably safe, but to ride behind people breathing hard for multiple hours is a real invitation to inhale viral particles. Remember that people who show no symptoms are shedding a lot of viral particles. If you are comfortable with your chances if you get the virus and will never be in contact with someone who is vulnerable then I guess it is a calculated risk. Never mind the fact that you may be pulling resources if you need to be hospitalized.

I think that we have reached an inflection point in terms of our collective desire to do what needs to be done to stop this virus. Less than 3 months and most folks have reached full "Meh". The numbers of cases in many places are not going down but the rapid opening up with little or no procedures to prevent transmission will certainly come back to bite us all in the arse. We love living in a world where the burden of the many is carried by the few. It is truly fascinating to see how different countries and cultures have done well or poorly against this plague.

This sums up my thoughts really well.
I agree. I have been riding solo but meeting up outside after my ride with friends.

[oldpotatoe]

If you are still expected to social distance from people you do not live with why would a group ride be OK? A group walk or a gathering outdoors where people are maintaining some distance is reasonably safe, but to ride behind people breathing hard for multiple hours is a real invitation to inhale viral particles. Remember that people who show no symptoms are shedding a lot of viral particles. If you are comfortable with your chances if you get the virus and will never be in contact with someone who is vulnerable then I guess it is a calculated risk. Never mind the fact that you may be pulling resources if you need to be hospitalized.

I think that we have reached an inflection point in terms of our collective desire to do what needs to be done to stop this virus. Less than 3 months and most folks have reached full "Meh". The numbers of cases in many places are not going down but the rapid opening up with little or no procedures to prevent transmission will certainly come back to bite us all in the arse. We love living in a world where the burden of the many is carried by the few. It is truly fascinating to see how different countries and cultures have done well or poorly against this plague.

Yup, and alone for me until an effective vaccine...I give it about 2 weeks for some spikes...there are some spikes showing now..15 days after mothers day...

[Clean39T]

I’ve been avoiding them. I don’t want to risk bringing the virus home or transmitting it to someone else if I’m an asymptomatic carrier. The chance of contracting COVID-19 increases dramatically when you come into contact with more people. I’m happy riding alone for now.Same.

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[merlinmurph]

The only person I'm riding with right now is my wife. I do very few group rides anyway, but I've turned down offers from others to do a ride because, well....

[fa63]

Tried doing a group ride today which was advertised as being "socially distanced". I was curious what that meant, then quickly realized there is no such thing as a socially distanced group ride when there are 10+ riders... Ended up following the group from a good 20 yards back, essentially a solo ride.

[marciero]

I am pretty content between my typical solo riding and once or twice a week tandem rides with my girlfriend. I do miss brevets though. I've seen groups of three or four out on the road lately, and it seems really weird.

[MO Will]

I rode Saturday with a group of 8. I agree that there is no such thing as a socially distanced group ride when there are strong riders and people are drafting so as not to be off the back. Definitely a bummer as I really struggle to ride alone several hours at a time and I can never push myself like in a group. I am in Missouri so a small group ride pales in comparison to what is happening at Lake of the Ozarks. All of us are essential workers as well and I was the only one expressing doubts.

[FlashUNC]

Anything beyond solo or with people in your household avoiding all others makes no sense right now.

[Blue Jays]

My cycling crew has now resumed normal group rides with just a few of us as the "last holdouts" unwilling to join everyone else.
While I see the crucial need to restart the nation, it simultaneously seems to me a group bicycle ride is a simple activity to do without.

[jischr]

Went to a multi use trail at 8:30 this morning, busy as heck, a lot of people to slow down behind waiting for a clear path to pass. Towards the end there was a group riding two abreast, 5 or 6 deep. Bad idea any time on a MUT in my opinion, but especially a holiday, especially with covid.

[cueoner]

I'm continuing to ride solo, but I do miss riding with my friends. My riding buddies have been riding in small groups of 2-4 people but i've declined their invites each time. Just doesn't feel safe to me.

[Hilltopperny]

I have not been much for group rides outside of smaller groups, but wouldn't really hesitate at this stage. Most independent studies and recent cdc estimates are that this has a .26% mortality rate and that it’s transmission outside is almost non existent. The mortality rate is even lower if you are 49 or under. Seems those original projections were not very accurate and that this virus isn't really as deadly to the vast majority of us.



I can understand and respect those who wouldn't want to go out and ride in large groups, but it has not really done much damage to those with healthy immune systems and has begun to level out even in hotspots like NYC at this point. Upstate where I live we had 1 Covid related death in Montgomery County right in the beginning of this and I believe 18 deaths in Fulton County, but they were almost all in Nursing Homes that were forced to take in Covid patients by the state. The average age of covid death is higher than our national mortality rate in the United States.

[XXtwindad]

I have not been much for group outside of smaller groups, but wouldn't really hesitate at this stage. Most independent studies and recent cdc estimates are that this has a .26% mortality rate and that it is transmission outside is almost non existent. The mortality rate is even lower if you are 49 or under. Seems those original projections were not very accurate and that this virus isn't really as deadly to the vast majority of us.

I can understand and respect those who wouldn't want to go out and ride in large groups, but it has not really done much damage to those with healthy immune systems and has begun to level out even in hotspots like NYC at this point. Upstate where I live we had 1 Covid related death in Montgomery County right in the beginning of this and I believe 18 deaths in Fulton County, but they were almost all in Nursing Homes that were forced to take in Covid patients by the state. The average age of covid death is higher than our national mortality rate in the United States.

One of my favorite 80s bands, by far...

[Hilltopperny]

One of my favorite 80s bands, by far...


One of mine as well!


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