If there is a lockdown...

[ricardinho]

Does that mean we can’t cycle on our own?

Lone wolf that I am...is definitely a self isolation?

[fmradio516]

Does that mean we can’t cycle on our own?

Lone wolf that I am...is definitely a self isolation?

yeah but i am worried when i pull up next to cars that someone is going to sneeze out their window directly into my path.

[merckxman]

The current lockdown in Italy have only supermarkets and pharmacies open. Only one person from each household can go on a shopping run. Otherwise you stay inside.
I guess it will depend on the the lockdown rules implemented.

[joosttx]

I think we are doing a better job than Italy (at least from my vantage point). Plus we have less compromised people than Italy.

[ricardinho]

Imagine that. Only one cyclist on the Stelvio at a time

[makoti]

I am feeling guilty. Rode today. Saturdays are usually a mess around here. Crazy traffic. Even the main roads were quiet. I'm kind of enjoying this.

[rallizes]

I think we are doing a better job than Italy (at least from my vantage point). Plus we have less compromised people than Italy.

how would you say?

[ricardinho]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/13/opinion/coronavirus-cautionary-tale-italy-dont-do-what-we-did/

Good read

[vincenz]

I think we are doing a better job than Italy (at least from my vantage point). Plus we have less compromised people than Italy.



How so? Without a full lockdown like them or rampant testing and built-in culture of cleanliness and public awareness similar to the Asian countries doing well, the US will be much worse than Italy in a few weeks’ time.

[Black Dog]

I think we are doing a better job than Italy (at least from my vantage point). Plus we have less compromised people than Italy.

Well, when the per capita case load approaches that of Italy then I think a fair comparison can be made. Also, in terms of compromised Italy does have an older population but in terms of compromised health I suspect that there population is doing much better when equal aged cohorts are compared. Italy has a much higher population density as a pure aggregate but remember that most people in the US live in Cities and towns that have relatively high densities, albeit, lower than compatible cities and towns in Italy.

[MikeD]

How so? Without a full lockdown like them or rampant testing and built-in culture of cleanliness and public awareness similar to the Asian countries doing well, the US will be much worse than Italy in a few weeks’ time.


I don't believe that. Why not isolate the the most vulnerable and let the rest of us go about our lives? A load of people are going to lose their jobs if we proceed down that path. I'll take that chance to risk catching a flu like disease. I didn't see these draconian measures being applied with SARS, MERS, and H1N1.

[bobdenver1961]

i don't believe that. Why not isolate the the most vulnerable and let the rest of us go about our lives? A load of people are going to lose their jobs if we proceed down that path. I'll take that chance to risk catching a flu like disease. I didn't see these draconian measures being applied with sars, mers, and h1n1.

+1

[muz]

I'll take that chance to risk catching a flu like disease. I didn't see these draconian measures being applied with SARS, MERS, and H1N1.

This is because you didn't live in a country overrun by SARS. One reason places like Hong Kong, Sinagapore and Taiwan are doing so well is that they were prepared by the SARS outbreak.

[Jaybee]

I don't believe that. Why not isolate the the most vulnerable and let the rest of us go about our lives? A load of people are going to lose their jobs if we proceed down that path. I'll take that chance to risk catching a flu like disease. I didn't see these draconian measures being applied with SARS, MERS, and H1N1.

It makes more sense (counterintuitively,, I admit) to isolate the least vulnerable to limit spread. Healthy people who are asymptomatic move themselves around far and wide and scatter the virus everywhere. People who know they are sick are at home or in the hospital.
This isn't about you or I getting the sniffles for a week. It's about everyone else we pass it on to.


Covid shouldn't be compared to SARS, MERS, or H1N1 either. It's far more contagious with a longer viability outside a host with a mortality rate equal to any of the above. It doesn't rely solely on airborne transmission.

If we can collectively take this seriously, then we will be out of the worst of it in 8-10 weeks. If not (and we don't really do collective action in this country anymore), then expect 3x the number of dead, a completely cratered economy, and a recurrence next winter.

[MikeD]

This is because you didn't live in a country overrun by SARS. One reason places like Hong Kong, Sinagapore and Taiwan are doing so well is that they were prepared by the SARS outbreak.



What do you mean by doing so well? They have many more cases as a percentage of the population. The fact that we have a travel ban prevented us from getting to where they are. H1N1 was pervasive in the US. The fact is this disease will peak and tail off on its own.

[MikeD]

It makes more sense (counterintuitively,, I admit) to isolate the least vulnerable to limit spread. Healthy people who are asymptomatic move themselves around far and wide and scatter the virus everywhere. People who know they are sick are at home or in the hospital.

This isn't about you or I getting the sniffles for a week. It's about everyone else we pass it on to.





Covid shouldn't be compared to SARS, MERS, or H1N1 either. It's far more contagious with a longer viability outside a host with a mortality rate equal to any of the above. It doesn't rely solely on airborne transmission.



If we can collectively take this seriously, then we will be out of the worst of it in 8-10 weeks. If not (and we don't really do collective action in this country anymore), then expect 3x the number of dead, a completely cratered economy, and a recurrence next winter.


SARS and MERS were much more deadly. H1N1 affected everyone.

If we continue down the lockdown path for another 8-10 weeks, that will crater the economy. It's starting now.

[Black Dog]

What do you mean by doing so well? They have many more cases as a percentage of the population. The fact that we have a travel ban prevented us from getting to where they are. H1N1 was pervasive in the US. The fact is this disease will peak and tail off on its own.

This is patently false. Travel bans only delay the spread by a few days to a week at best. The US will get to where they are. Would you prefer the disease peak in a way that is manageable or just let in run wild and unchecked? Would you prefer we protect those that are vulnerable or just let nature take it course with them? We all have someone that we love or care about who is or may be venerable and we owe it to them that we do what we can to protect them.

Here is a primer on the matter of travel bans: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid19-travel-bans-1.5495919

[el cheapo]

I'm a caregiver for my 95 year old dad and am keeping him away from everyone but me. Only way to stop this is to kill the economy which is happening across the globe with massive closures of business. Hope everybody has that emergency fund financial planners always talk about.

[C40_guy]

I don't believe that. Why not isolate the the most vulnerable and let the rest of us go about our lives? A load of people are going to lose their jobs if we proceed down that path. I'll take that chance to risk catching a flu like disease. I didn't see these draconian measures being applied with SARS, MERS, and H1N1.

If the rest of us go about our lives, we will pass the virus around and the hospitals will be overrun with patients.

Maybe this isn't about you.

Maybe you're young and strong and will get lucky and your case will be mild. Or maybe you'll end up on a gurney in a hospital hallway waiting for a ventilator.

It's about keeping Nanna alive. There's a good portion of the population who are much more likely to die if they are infected.

A real two week lock down will significantly dampen the growth of the virus footprint. That's why Italy and Spain did it.

[C40_guy]

SARS and MERS were much more deadly. H1N1 affected everyone.

If we continue down the lockdown path for another 8-10 weeks, that will crater the economy. It's starting now.

If we have several million dead, the economy will be on life support at best.

A two week lockdown will go a long way to slowing the growth of the virus.

[Tony T]

I think we are doing a better job than Italy (at least from my vantage point). Plus we have less compromised people than Italy.

Italy was doing a better job than China…
…until it wasn't

[ricardinho]

I don't believe that. Why not isolate the the most vulnerable and let the rest of us go about our lives? A load of people are going to lose their jobs if we proceed down that path. I'll take that chance to risk catching a flu like disease. I didn't see these draconian measures being applied with SARS, MERS, and H1N1.

Agree to this

[MikeD]

This is patently false. Travel bans only delay the spread by a few days to a week at best. The US will get to where they are. Would you prefer the disease peak in a way that is manageable or just let in run wild and unchecked? Would you prefer we protect those that are vulnerable or just let nature take it course with them? We all have someone that we love or care about who is or may be venerable and we owe it to them that we do what we can to protect them.

Here is a primer on the matter of travel bans: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid19-travel-bans-1.5495919


I already said isolate the most vulnerable. Quarantine them and the people that are sick.

How would you like to be a healthy person living paycheck to paycheck and lose your job because their restaurant or business closed because the government ordered them to close down?

The BS media is currently serving to stoke fears in the population. Threads like this don't help as we're already getting too much of this from the media. Just go into a grocery store to see evidence of panic.

[Black Dog]

I already said isolate the most vulnerable. Quarantine them and the people that are sick.

How would you like to be a healthy person living paycheck to paycheck and lose your job because their restaurant or business closed because the government ordered them to close down?

The BS media is currently serving to stoke fears in the population. Threads like this don't help as we're already getting too much of this from the media. Just go into a grocery store to see evidence of panic.

You are 100% right about the fear and the media has not been doing a great job overall, however, most of the bad information has been coming from social media and certain media outlets in the US. Canadian mead has been way less sensational, but social media has no borders. We are seeing the same stupid behaviour and the myth of the magic toilet paper is strong here. :rolleyes:

Not sure what is happening in the USA in terms of supporting people who are going to be put into financial distress but here in Canada our federal government has made it very easy to access employment insurance benefits with a zero wait period (down from 2 weeks) for those that are laid off or have to stay home to look after kids, or those that are sick etc... The social safety net should cover almost everyone who is in a precarious situation in terms of employment with little lost income. We do not want to force people to be at work if they are sick or will loose crucial income if they stay home. Even in provinces with right wing governments are protecting workers from being fired if they stay home for a few weeks to self quarantine. The economy will not collapse, people will still want to make money and buy and sell things. Running around saying that the economy will or is collapsing is a form a fear mongering in itself. The economy works on trust and pushing people into panic erodes that trust and makes this a self fulfilling prophecy.

[mj_michigan]

If I understand correctly, the new US government package will provide medical leave benefits, separate for employer's, as well as beefed-up unemployment -- not sure about exact numbers, but it is easy to find.

Every year flu infects millions of people and some 10 to 60K people die, yet we don't shut down the economy because of it. I think the problem with the COVID is that we have no prior experience. How many people might get infected and how many people might die -- 10,000 or 1,000,000 -- if we don't impose serious restrictions?

Anyway, I have been told to work for home starting Monday for an unspecified period. Plan to cancel my upcoming dental appointment too.

[C40_guy]

I already said isolate the most vulnerable. Quarantine them and the people that are sick.

How would you like to be a healthy person living paycheck to paycheck and lose your job because their restaurant or business closed because the government ordered them to close down?

The BS media is currently serving to stoke fears in the population. Threads like this don't help as we're already getting too much of this from the media. Just go into a grocery store to see evidence of panic.


You mean, make it someone else's problem? Stick the old people in warehouses and the rest of us will just happily pass the virus around until we all have antibodies?

The NY Times published data today that showed that with harsh controls, such as lockdowns, perhaps 500,000 will die. Without such actions the number is doubled.

Are you not willing to surrender your Saturday night out, or even your paycheck, for decreased mortality rates?

That's not the social pact I agreed to.

[Black Dog]

If I understand correctly, the new US government package will provide medical leave benefits, separate for employer's, as well as beefed-up unemployment -- not sure about exact numbers, but it is easy to find.

Every year flu infects millions of people get and some 10 to 60K people die yet we don't shut down the economy because of it. I think the problem with the COVID is that we have no prior experience. How many people might get infected and how many people might die -- 10,000 or 1,000,000 -- if we don't impose serious restrictions?

Anyway, I have been told to work for home starting Monday for an unspecified period. Plan to cancel my upcoming dental appointment too.

This is true and also, a lot of flu deaths are preventable through vaccinations and hygiene. However, Covid-19 is more lethal than the flu. If the regular flu killed ~2% of people then it would be the spanish flu that killed 40 million people 100 years ago. Covid-19 may be 1-2%. It is not like the regular flu.

[bobdenver1961]

If we continue down the lockdown path for another 8-10 weeks, that will crater the economy. It's starting now.

Some people say that is the goal.

[muz]

Some people say that is the goal.

This is pathetic and socially irresponsible. Unfortunately, we can't seem to come together even in a crisis, because there are alternative facts.

China was able to overcome this with draconian measures, because they were able to limit the epidemic largely to Hubei province. They did not get a large increase in cases anywhere else. Taiwan was able to largely keep it out.

We are where Italy was two weeks ago. This is the calm before the storm. If we manage to keep everyone follow social distancing, we should see the benefits in 2 to 3 weeks. Otherwise, there will be National Guard on the streets in a couple weeks, keeping us in our homes.

[rallizes]

Some people say that is the goal.

oh indeed

[colker]

Some people say that is the goal.

Those who say it are not to be trusted.

[Jaybee]

Take 10 minutes to read through this if you still don’t get why social distancing is important.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

Now imagine the the “low-risk” healthy people are the dots doing the most bouncing around without knowing they are sick.

Everyone should be doing this - it’s socially irresponsible not to.

[colker]

If the rest of us go about our lives, we will pass the virus around and the hospitals will be overrun with patients.

Maybe this isn't about you.

Maybe you're young and strong and will get lucky and your case will be mild. Or maybe you'll end up on a gurney in a hospital hallway waiting for a ventilator.

It's about keeping Nanna alive. There's a good portion of the population who are much more likely to die if they are infected.

A real two week lock down will significantly dampen the growth of the virus footprint. That's why Italy and Spain did it.

Not only that... if hospitals and all the health structure becomes overwhelmed it starts to shut down and you won´t be treated for anything elsel. Where are women going to give birth if doctors and nurses are sick? Once it collapses everything follows since it´s a pillar of the big structure. That´s the reason behind draconian measure.

[Clancy]

Some people say that is the goal.

Oh yes, the ever so well known and easily identifiable “Some people”

Seriously, that phrase is so patiently opaque it’s an absolute that anything that follows is equally without merit.

I give up

[MikeD]

Oh yes, the ever so well known and easily identifiable “Some people”



Seriously, that phrase is so patiently opaque it’s an absolute that anything that follows is equally without merit.



I give up



What about this guy? https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/09/maher_im_hoping_for_a_crashing_economy_so_we_can_g et_rid_of_trump_bring_on_the_recession.html


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[akelman]

What about this guy? https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/09/maher_im_hoping_for_a_crashing_economy_so_we_can_g et_rid_of_trump_bring_on_the_recession.html


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Bill Maher is a professional troll. One of his closest friends is Ann Coulter, who's also a professional troll. These are people who make their money by fomenting anger and resentment. They shouldn't be taken seriously in any context.

[MikeD]

You mean, make it someone else's problem? Stick the old people in warehouses and the rest of us will just happily pass the virus around until we all have antibodies?



The NY Times published data today that showed that with harsh controls, such as lockdowns, perhaps 500,000 will die. Without such actions the number is doubled.



Are you not willing to surrender your Saturday night out, or even your paycheck, for decreased mortality rates?



That's not the social pact I agreed to.


Why don't you try living without a paycheck, better yet donate yours to some that lost their job?

[muz]

What about this guy? https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/09/maher_im_hoping_for_a_crashing_economy_so_we_can_g et_rid_of_trump_bring_on_the_recession.html


He is a second rate comedian, and he wasn't the one who called this a "hoax". I was disappointed by his show, especially the guest who was supposed to talk to us about risks.

This is not a hoax, it is a global health crisis. It will probably lead to a global recession. It would be great if everyone worked off the same facts and the same playbook.

[bobdenver1961]

This is pathetic and socially irresponsible. Unfortunately, we can't seem to come together even in a crisis, because there are alternative facts.

China was able to overcome this with draconian measures, because they were able to limit the epidemic largely to Hubei province. They did not get a large increase in cases anywhere else. Taiwan was able to largely keep it out.

We are where Italy was two weeks ago. This is the calm before the storm. If we manage to keep everyone follow social distancing, we should see the benefits in 2 to 3 weeks. Otherwise, there will be National Guard on the streets in a couple weeks, keeping us in our homes.

Maybe if we all had some exposure to this virus we would build up our immune system to be able to naturally fight off this disease.

[bobdenver1961]

Why don't you try living without a paycheck, better yet donate yours to some that lost their job?

Try and tell the credit card company, landlord, etc that since I was on self imposed quarantine that I will not be paying them this month or maybe not even next month.

[benb]

We don’t quarantine the vulnerable because public health experts know it doesn’t work as well as the whole social distancing routine.

Someone already posted that page with a simulation that shows an example.

Besides this thing is really deadly. Read some of the stories. Plenty of stories of 20 something healthy living folks in China who died. Getting this is going to wreck your bike season even if you live.

[muz]

Maybe if we all had some exposure to this virus we would build up our immune system to be able to naturally fight off this disease.

This is most likely what will happen. The epidemic will only stop when we have herd immunity, either because most of us had the disease, or because there is a vaccine. Until then we need to do our part to keep the infection rate manageable so that the most vulnerable can be taken care of.

[Hilltopperny]

In case they actually do lockdown just make sure to have plenty of food and water. I have refrained from any comments about this stuff until now. I will say that since there is extremely limited testing that the actual numbers of those who have been infected by this are likely astronomically higher than what we know right now. That also means that the death rate % is much lower as the death tolls have stayed the same making this far less lethal than pretty much all the claims. It also is likely to have been around for a few months and passed through almost all who it effected without any symptoms more alarming than a typical bug or flu.

I am in NYS and there are confirmed cases in all of the surrounding counties, but there is still a very limited amount of people being tested. The schools are officially closed until at least the 31st and we will see where things will go from there. I made sure if things get out of hand that I can ride my bike on my few acres and may create a small course to get outside. I only see very limited traffic as is where I am and there are plenty of state forests that I can ride around and explore in if they don’t end up enforcing a lockdown.


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[Kirk007]

Try and tell the credit card company, landlord, etc that since I was on self imposed quarantine that I will not be paying them this month or maybe not even next month.

Some would argue that a priority function of government is to look out for the greater good with particular attention to the sick, afflicted and persons in need when conditions arise that are impossible to deal with as a self reliant individual. Apparently the House relief bill had broader provisions for relief both for individuals and companies, but the White House negotiated it back, and the House Democrats agreed to the narrower bill and now, as pointed out in this thread or the other Coronavirus thread, there are loopholes that will leave many in the very position posited above. Whereas, apparently (from one of our Canadian forum members), coverage will be both broader and more easily accessed in Canada.

We are about to see the competing views on government and its role in providing a safety net, play out in very real ways the next few weeks.

[Hellgate]

I don't believe that. Why not isolate the the most vulnerable and let the rest of us go about our lives? A load of people are going to lose their jobs if we proceed down that path. I'll take that chance to risk catching a flu like disease. I didn't see these draconian measures being applied with SARS, MERS, and H1N1.Agreed.

[Spdntrxi]

Agreed.

x infinity

[Clancy]

Bill Maher is a professional troll. One of his closest friends is Ann Coulter, who's also a professional troll. These are people who make their money by fomenting anger and resentment. They shouldn't be taken seriously in any context.

Agree completely but with that said, instead of saying “some people” are hoping for a recession, say Bill Maher is hoping for ay recession.

To use “some people” or “there are people that believe” or equivalently vague and non-specific terms do little to nothing in making credible points.

[Hellgate]

Try and tell the credit card company, landlord, etc that since I was on self imposed quarantine that I will not be paying them this month or maybe not even next month.And live in a van down by the river?1697994485

[DCilliams]

The nice thing about Google - - especially if you operate in good faith, that is, without lazily seeking to confirm your "opinion" - - is you can rather quickly locate "experts" who've spent their lives studying this subject and who will gladly explain in detail why these measures are necessary, what differentiates this virus from others, and the various economic impacts if one path of action is chosen versus another. Sure, they're not clairvoyant, but they're a decent weather vane.

[Spdntrxi]

Agree completely but with that said, instead of saying “some people” are hoping for a recession, say Bill Maher is hoping for ay recession.

To use “some people” or “there are people that believe” or equivalently vague and non-specific terms do little to nothing in making credible points.

anyone hoping for a recession should get a one-way ticket to Iran

[mdeth1313]

I am in NYS and there are confirmed cases in all of the surrounding counties, but there is still a very limited amount of people being tested. The schools are officially closed until at least the 31st and we will see where things will go from there. I made sure if things get out of hand that I can ride my bike on my few acres and may create a small course to get outside. I only see very limited traffic as is where I am and there are plenty of state forests that I can ride around and explore in if they don’t end up enforcing a lockdown.

Interesting you mention the schools. I'm in Dutchess County and they just closed our schools down until March 30. Dutchess, Ulster and Orange all made the announcement together. Westchester County (where New Rochelle is) has left it up to each local district, the same with Putnam (county between Westchester and Dutchess).

The outbreaks are far more prevalent in Westchester and NYC. There's just no consistency to any of this and it's all the same state.

[vincenz]

The nice thing about Google - - especially if you operate in good faith, that is, without lazily seeking to confirm your "opinion" - - is you can rather quickly locate "experts" who've spent their lives studying this subject and who will gladly explain in detail why these measures are necessary, what differentiates this virus from others, and the various economic impacts if one path of action is chosen versus another. Sure, they're not clairvoyant, but they're a decent weather vane.



There is a very large education discrepancy in general society, and it skews way more to the more informed crowd on this forum, but there are exceptions everywhere.

For those people, they will only have the capacity to finally understand when it is themselves or one of their loved ones on a gurney with no care.

[merckxman]

The Italian “I Stay Home” decree, announced on Monday night by Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte was a plea for common sacrifice to safeguard the country’s elderly population and to save the health system from collapse.

[dddd]

I'm surprised not to have yet heard of this epidemic sweeping through the homeless community.
My local charity co-op place closed their doors for a while, Wednesday's "wrenching night" closed as I was hearing about the sports cancellations.

I was walking back to my car after donating goods to Goodwill the other night, I came around the building on foot and there was a guy with his back leaning against the wall doing a voluminous lung cough and I almost started running as I took note of which way that the wind was blowing.

I could see the anticipated cashless society coming out of this much sooner than expected, both as a hygiene step and as part of economic re-structuring (i.e. great fleecing).
As usual, the question people ask might be "who benefits?", followed by the blame game.

[Hilltopperny]

Interesting you mention the schools. I'm in Dutchess County and they just closed our schools down until March 30. Dutchess, Ulster and Orange all made the announcement together. Westchester County (where New Rochelle is) has left it up to each local district, the same with Putnam (county between Westchester and Dutchess).



The outbreaks are far more prevalent in Westchester and NYC. There's just no consistency to any of this and it's all the same state.



My wife is a teacher. They finally called it for her district and my daughters school in the neighboring county as well. My wife has to report for the next two days as there aren’t any confirmed cases here in our county or the next one over, but it is also my understanding that not many are actually given a test unless they pass multiple criteria. The nursing homes/assisted living facilities are basically on lockdown with only staff reporting and no visitors. I heard NYC schools are now closing and I would imagine the rest will follow suit soon.


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[Kyle h]

Here in Pittsburgh all non-essential businesses have been ordered to close. I work for a large hospital group in outpatient physical therapy and am curious to see where we land. Not to downplay the importance of my job, but a large portion of our patient population is already severely at risk and remaining open seems worse than being closed.

[rnhood]

I'm surprised not to have yet heard of this epidemic sweeping through the homeless community.
My local charity co-op place closed their doors for a while, Wednesday's "wrenching night" closed as I was hearing about the sports cancellations.

I was walking back to my car after donating goods to Goodwill the other night, I came around the building on foot and there was a guy with his back leaning against the wall doing a voluminous lung cough and I almost started running as I took note of which way that the wind was blowing.

I could see the anticipated cashless society coming out of this much sooner than expected, both as a hygiene step and as part of economic re-structuring (i.e. great fleecing).
As usual, the question people ask might be "who benefits?", followed by the blame game.

Homeless for the most part are not a risk. They need to wise up and start being normal citizens but, given their secluded lifestyle I don't think the risk for them is that great. At least not for this virus. I don't see too many of them attending weddings, going to mass events, shopping in malls, etc.

[rnhood]

I'm surprised not to have yet heard of this epidemic sweeping through the homeless community.
My local charity co-op place closed their doors for a while, Wednesday's "wrenching night" closed as I was hearing about the sports cancellations.

I was walking back to my car after donating goods to Goodwill the other night, I came around the building on foot and there was a guy with his back leaning against the wall doing a voluminous lung cough and I almost started running as I took note of which way that the wind was blowing.

I could see the anticipated cashless society coming out of this much sooner than expected, both as a hygiene step and as part of economic re-structuring (i.e. great fleecing).
As usual, the question people ask might be "who benefits?", followed by the blame game.

Homeless for the most part are not a risk. They need to wise up and start being normal citizens but, given their secluded lifestyle I don't think the risk for them is that great. At least not for this virus. I don't see too many of them attending weddings, going to mass events, shopping in malls, etc. They have other problems and illnesses that put them more at risk.

[oldpotatoe]

What about this guy? https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/09/maher_im_hoping_for_a_crashing_economy_so_we_can_g et_rid_of_trump_bring_on_the_recession.html


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Yup, I believe everything a comedian says. At least a better source of info than 'others' on TV, flanked by people in cute blue coveralls..Besides, if you are going to insert a troll like Maher, you better add others like hannity and rush...
anyone hoping for a recession should get a one-way ticket to Iran

'People' don't want a recession, they want assurances and guidance from their 'leaders'..not a TV moment to pat one on his back, complain about others and say 'it's not my fault'...
Yes, the disease is not his fault, but the federal response, or lack there-of, is..

[colker]

Homeless for the most part are not a risk. They need to wise up and start being normal citizens but, given their secluded lifestyle I don't think the risk for them is that great. At least not for this virus. I don't see too many of them attending weddings, going to mass events, shopping in malls, etc. They have other problems and illnesses that put them more at risk.
What??!! :eek::eek:
No comment.:help:

[oldpotatoe]

They need to wise up and start being normal citizens
What??!! :eek::eek:
No comment.:help:

yeegads...

[colker]

In case they actually do lockdown just make sure to have plenty of food and water. I have refrained from any comments about this stuff until now. I will say that since there is extremely limited testing that the actual numbers of those who have been infected by this are likely astronomically higher than what we know right now. That also means that the death rate % is much lower as the death tolls have stayed the same making this far less lethal than pretty much all the claims. It also is likely to have been around for a few months and passed through almost all who it effected without any symptoms more alarming than a typical bug or flu.

I am in NYS and there are confirmed cases in all of the surrounding counties, but there is still a very limited amount of people being tested. The schools are officially closed until at least the 31st and we will see where things will go from there. I made sure if things get out of hand that I can ride my bike on my few acres and may create a small course to get outside. I only see very limited traffic as is where I am and there are plenty of state forests that I can ride around and explore in if they don’t end up enforcing a lockdown.


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Lockdown still let you buy food and water. The run for food and water in America BEFORE anyone even got sick was a sad chapter in History.

[Hilltopperny]

Lockdown still let you buy food and water. The run for food and water in America BEFORE anyone even got sick was a sad chapter in History.



I think getting food and supplies is pretty important. The hoarding and excessive buying of items to try and resale is what is repugnant. Nothing wrong with being prepared.


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[colker]

The virus has no vaccine so there is only one answer: discipline and sense of community.
What needs to be spread is serious information on hygiene habits to avoid catching and if infected not contaminate others. Not panic.
All i watched in the last two weeks is a run to buy everythingbefore others. I watched panic being spread before anyone even got sick. I watched it here.
There is an ugly shortage. There isn´t a health crisis yet ... but there is a shortage of TP and food.
There are many natural crisis ahead of us but there are societies out there which are disciplined, less selfish w/ good community sense.
We learn from crisis and tragedy.

[colker]

I think getting food and supplies is pretty important. The hoarding and excessive buying of items to try and resale is what is repugnant. Nothing wrong with being prepared.


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You need fresh vegetables and fruit to boost your immune system. Those you buy on a weekly basis. Don´t run for the market and deplete the shelves. It does not prevent the health crisis but creates a shortage crisis.

[Clancy]

Homeless for the most part are not a risk. They need to wise up and start being normal citizens but, given their secluded lifestyle I don't think the risk for them is that great. At least not for this virus. I don't see too many of them attending weddings, going to mass events, shopping in malls, etc. They have other problems and illnesses that put them more at risk.

I am stunned, absolutely stunned

[Hilltopperny]

You need fresh vegetables and fruit to boost your immune system. Those you buy on a weekly basis. Don´t run for the market and deplete the shelves. It does not prevent the health crisis but creates a shortage crisis.



I agree, but I live out in the country. I ordered some multi vitamins and bought a bunch of frozen and canned goods. I also intend on having a larger garden this year. I have a young family and we are going to wait it out up here and see how things play out. I started preparing weeks ago and have more than just supermarkets to get things from as there are large Amish communities and country stores that don’t see the typical Walmart/Costco big box crowd coming. I also intend on raising chickens again this year. Looking to be as self sufficient as possible until things are under control.


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[colker]

I agree, but I live out in the country. I ordered some multi vitamins and bought a bunch of frozen and canned goods. I also intend on having a larger garden this year. I have a young family and we are going to wait it out up here and see how things play out. I started preparing weeks ago and have more than just supermarkets to get things from as there are large Amish communities and country stores that don’t see the typical Walmart/Costco big box crowd coming. I also intend on raising chickens again this year. Looking to be as self sufficient as possible until things are under control.


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Good call! it does not get any better than raising food.

[Hilltopperny]

Good call! it does not get any better than raising food.



I agree and am fortunate enough to have good top soil and a few acres of land. We have raised chickens and I usually buy a half cow from a local organic farm to put in the freezer. We have been doing this since before all of this, but all the more reason to increase the output and keep our distance from things for the time being.


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[oldpotatoe]

The virus has no vaccine so there is only one answer: discipline and sense of community.
What needs to be spread is serious information on hygiene habits to avoid catching and if infected not contaminate others. Not panic.
All i watched in the last two weeks is a run to buy everythingbefore others. I watched panic being spread before anyone even got sick. I watched it here.
There is an ugly shortage. There isn´t a health crisis yet ... but there is a shortage of TP and food.
There are many natural crisis ahead of us but there are societies out there which are disciplined, less selfish w/ good community sense.
We learn from crisis and tragedy.

If that were true, but a look at history shows the human animal doesn't learn...

Look locally(small, like neighborhood local), where you will probably find intelligence and sense of community..
"I'm from the government and I'm here to help"..if anybody relies on any government for anything, including reassurance or direction, they are not being smart.

[colker]

If that were true, but a look at history shows the human animal doesn't learn...

Look locally(small, like neighborhood local), where you will probably find intelligence and sense of community..
"I'm from the government and I'm here to help"..if anybody relies on any government for anything, including reassurance or direction, they are not being smart.

In terms of knowledge, science/ technique we found ways to beat threats from nature. We have antibiotics now. We build complex things that keep us safe. When it comes to morality it´s harder to reach the same conclusion BUT... if we look at budhism for example we realize there is a leap in conscience already. There are other morality systems out there which overcome our basic flaws. We wise up to survive.
If a government makes survival harder we get rid of it. NOthing keeps still.. it´s moving.

[C40_guy]

Lockdown still let you buy food and water. The run for food and water in America BEFORE anyone even got sick was a sad chapter in History.

I just don't get the demand for bottled water. Unless you live someplace where the water is actually bad (Flint, MI for instance), there's perfectly good water available from multiple dispensers in your living quarters (and almost everywhere else).

Use the extra money to buy bike parts.

[buddybikes]

This hoarding is not a US phenomenon, Canada UK friends waiting in massive lines during their normal Sat shopping trip. Friend in Canada was handed one package of toilet paper by employee - stock kept under control.

[zap]

This hoarding is not a US phenomenon, Canada UK friends waiting in massive lines during their normal Sat shopping trip. Friend in Canada was handed one package of toilet paper by employee - stock kept under control.

Agreed.

Just got of the phone with my mom (just got her refund from Air Canada) who lives an hour north of GTA....metro Toronto Canada. No tp, no bread, no eggs when she went shopping this past weekend.

[C40_guy]

If that were true, but a look at history shows the human animal doesn't learn...



Maybe Darwin was wrong.

[chiasticon]

Does that mean we can’t cycle on our own?

Lone wolf that I am...is definitely a self isolation?sounds like Italy and Spain are only allowing professionals to ride, and only if they carry a letter stating such. but drivers are not being kind to them.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/coronavirus-restrictions-stops-spanish-riders-training-sparks-abuse-of-italian-riders-outdoors/

[colker]

Maybe Darwin was wrong.
We managed to control fire, create language, build machines.

We have democracies with separation of state and religion. Government evolves too.

[saab2000]

Maybe Darwin was wrong.

No, he was right. But most folks still don't understand the eons of time required in natural selection.

Mother nature remains undefeated.

[Ozz]

I just don't get the demand for bottled water. .....
Right? It's not like this was a disaster where infrastructure was destroyed and water could not be delivered thru you tap! I am certain that the water district folks are still going to work, and that most plants are so automated they could be run by a dozen people or fewer.

The lack of understanding of the purpose of the lockdowns in this thread is astounding....it's not about you...it sucks, but seriously...it's not about you.

[Skenry]

I live in Ohio, it's no longer a question of "if" there is a lockdown.
Only when.

[C40_guy]

I live in Ohio, it's no longer a question of "if" there is a lockdown.
Only when.

A solid two week lockdown may serve to reduce a lot of long, drawn out pain over the next couple of months.

[chiasticon]

I live in Ohio, it's no longer a question of "if" there is a lockdown.
Only when.you're probably right, given how aggressive DeWine has been with this.

not sure it's a bad thing either. I rode yesterday and there were a ton of people out on the MUT, both riding and walking (50 and sunny in March will do that). wondered a bit how likely it would be to ingest anything they had breathed out while passing them...

[Clean39T]

you're probably right, given how aggressive DeWine has been with this.



not sure it's a bad thing either. I rode yesterday and there were a ton of people out on the MUT, both riding and walking (50 and sunny in March will do that). wondered a bit how likely it would be to ingest anything they had breathed out while passing them...If they sneezed or coughed into the open and there's no wind and you're a few seconds away from riding through their cloud....pretty likely. Beyond that, not so much.

Begs a question: if I can smell my neighbors' weed smoke, am I breathing their air? Do vapor droplets travel like smell? Intuition says no...

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[benb]

Pro athlete is so far down the list of important occupations that need carve outs in lock downs right now.

They are literally as far as possible from essential.

I am not surprised pros in Italy are getting yelled at.

And it's exactly the same as everything else.. tragedy of the commons. If all of them stay off the roads they are all going to be similarly affected and no one has an advantage. But I guess in a sport where so many cheat in normal conditions this is to be expected.

[JStonebarger]

Try and tell the credit card company, landlord, etc that since I was on self imposed quarantine that I will not be paying them this month or maybe not even next month.

Try telling the otherwise healthy asthmatic, 60 year old, or expecting mother that they can't get medical care because you couldn't be bothered.

[JStonebarger]

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help"..if anybody relies on any government for anything, including reassurance or direction, they are not being smart.

Is there any point to this sentiment other than lowering expectations? Then when our government absolutely sucks you can say "what did you expect?"

We deserve more. And we should expect more.

[Skenry]

Is there any point to this sentiment other than lowering expectations? Then when our government absolutely sucks you can say "what did you expect?"

We deserve more. And we should expect more.


The only point is realism. 9/11, Katrina, you are on your own. They have told you that for years now, have your supplies ready. Take care of yourself so you can take care of your family. You are responsible for your first and last line of defense.

[cloudguy]

The only point is realism. 9/11, Katrina, you are on your own. They have told you that for years now, have your supplies ready. Take care of yourself so you can take care of your family. You are responsible for your first and last line of defense.

So we should all have our own COVID-19 test kits and breathing machines? Give me a break.

[Rada]

I live in Ohio, it's no longer a question of "if" there is a lockdown.
Only when.

Rumor I've been hearing is this Wednesday or Thursday.

[oldpotatoe]

So we should all have our own COVID-19 test kits and breathing machines? Give me a break.

No..but supplies, a way to shelter for weeks, a way to protect you and yours. Depending on any government is waste of time..

[Skenry]

So we should all have our own COVID-19 test kits and breathing machines? Give me a break.

Of course not, and no one implied or said that but you. You don't need a Covid test kit, you need to eat and drink. Breathing machine? If you have asthma or a lung disease, you better have one and a way to power it.
Look, for years you have been told to store food, water, medicines and other things you need to live on your own for at least 3 days. People in areas hit by other mass events have needed supplies for longer. Federally they say three days on your own, realistically they recommend enough to survive at least a week with no intervention from local, state or federal resources.

The typical list includes:
Food and a way to prepare it
Water
Medicines both scripts and OTC
EMS supplies, bandages, ointments and such
Battery or hand crank radios and flashlights
Multitools, ducttape, plastic sheeting or tarps
Defensive weapons
Similar supplies for keeping pets too

[gemship]

If there is a lockdown you may not be able to purchase bike stuff online:eek:

[OtayBW]

Of course not, and no one implied or said that but you. You don't need a Covid test kit, you need to eat and drink. Breathing machine? If you have asthma or a lung disease, you better have one and a way to power it.
Look, for years you have been told to store food, water, medicines and other things you need to live on your own for at least 3 days. People in areas hit by other mass events have needed supplies for longer. Federally they say three days on your own, realistically they recommend enough to survive at least a week with no intervention from local, state or federal resources.

The typical list includes:
Food and a way to prepare it
Water
Medicines both scripts and OTC
EMS supplies, bandages, ointments and such
Battery or hand crank radios and flashlights
Multitools, ducttape, plastic sheeting or tarps
Defensive weapons
Similar supplies for keeping pets too

My list:
Food and a way to prepare it - 14 days+: Check
Water - (2) 5-gal bottles: Check
Medicines both scripts and OTC - Up to date 2 days ago: Check
EMS supplies, bandages, ointments and such - Well-stocked: Check
Battery or hand crank radios and flashlights - Multiple flashlights/lanterns: Check
Multitools, ducttape, plastic sheeting or tarps - Well-supplied: Check
Defensive weapons - Slingshot: Check
Similar supplies for keeping pets too - Unfortunately, no pets any longer
:)

[C40_guy]

If there is a lockdown you may not be able to purchase bike stuff online:eek:

Now that's crazy talk.

[gemship]

Ha, sure hope so C40:) Now that I have time to burn being off the job it's time to trade back that strong back for my once strong legs. I plan on riding the wheels off every bike I own. With the help of suppliers of course Team Gemship will thrive during these dark times. :cool:

[estilley]

Now that's crazy talk.

Racing against the clock on this one.

Picked up a frame from here and the resulting final pieces needed have been ordered.

TBD if they actually show up before we go to shelter in place, and maybe even then we won't be allowed to ride at all...

[peanutgallery]

5 cases of good beer - check
Giant bottle of Admiral Nelson - check
Dog trained to jump the fence and return with small game - check

We're good to go

My list:
Food and a way to prepare it - 14 days+: Check
Water - (2) 5-gal bottles: Check
Medicines both scripts and OTC - Up to date 2 days ago: Check
EMS supplies, bandages, ointments and such - Well-stocked: Check
Battery or hand crank radios and flashlights - Multiple flashlights/lanterns: Check
Multitools, ducttape, plastic sheeting or tarps - Well-supplied: Check
Defensive weapons - Slingshot: Check
Similar supplies for keeping pets too - Unfortunately, no pets any longer
:)

[C40_guy]

Racing against the clock on this one.

Picked up a frame from here and the resulting final pieces needed have been ordered.

TBD if they actually show up before we go to shelter in place, and maybe even then we won't be allowed to ride at all...

Hmm. Stockpiling all those spare bike parts may pay off. I can spend the extra time building up a couple of bikes. What I should do is post those parts on the Marketplace. :)

[robertbb]

Surprised no-one has mentioned guns and ammunition.

'Murica.

[nesteel]

Surprised no-one has mentioned guns and ammunition.

'Murica.

Hello. All the gun nuts stay stocked up all the time.

[Spdntrxi]

Hello. All the gun nuts stay stocked up all the time.

exactly the people buying bullets now are probably non gun owners looking to corner the market like TP.

[oldpotatoe]

Surprised no-one has mentioned guns and ammunition.

'Murica.

It has been mentioned. Unfortunately the toothpaste is out of the tube. Lotsa guns out there, many in the hands of people who probably shouldn’t have them. I have already said, I worry about the wackos way more than the virus.

Btw-not everybody who owns a gun and is a responsible gun owner is a ‘gun nut’ with Gadsden, 2A and NRA stickers all over their truck. This fits in well with relying on any government agency to take care of you and yours.

BUT a huge run on handgun ammunition, just like TP..difference is ammunition probably isn’t going to get used, TP is...

[Mikej]

Second hand stupidity is more dangerous than the COVID 19 virus. Thats whats gonna get us.

[nesteel]

It has been mentioned. Unfortunately the toothpaste is out of the tube. Lotsa guns out there, many in the hands of people who probably shouldn’t have them. I have already said, I worry about the wackos way more than the virus.

Btw-not everybody who owns a gun and is a responsible gun owner is a ‘gun nut’ with Gadsden, 2A and NRA stickers all over their truck. This fits in well with relying on any government agency to take care of you and yours.

BUT a huge run on handgun ammunition, just like TP..difference is ammunition probably isn’t going to get used, TP is...

Preach sir. Well said and appreciated.

[unterhausen]

I just hope the armed gangs of TP robbers go next door, the neighbor gets a gun shipment every week via fedex. Of course, they might just go there to steal his guns, that was always my plan for when the revolution comes.

[Mikej]

I just hope the armed gangs of TP robbers go next door, the neighbor gets a gun shipment every week via fedex. Of course, they might just go there to steal his guns, that was always my plan for when the revolution comes.

Your neighbor right now...

[benb]

Your neighbor right now...

You can only hold & fire one or maybe two guns at a time.

That guy is in more danger than most of us cause attackers have plenty of guns to choose from. :P

Hopefully he locks up his ammo.

[Waldo62]

Tuesday at 5:00 pm there were lots of unsheltered-in-place people, engaged in essential activity of walking their dogs in East Bay Regional Parks. Tons of traffic -- vehicular and pedestrian -- on Skyline. Not so enjoyable while riding.

[Mikej]

You can only hold & fire one or maybe two guns at a time.

That guy is in more danger than most of us cause attackers have plenty of guns to choose from. :P

Hopefully he locks up his ammo.

Yeah, get your stupid friends to go in first, then wait for the re-load to make your move :)

[ElvisMerckx]

That guy is in more danger than most of us cause attackers have plenty of guns to choose from.

Conversely, any attackers are in FAR more danger with this guy than a non gun owner.

/Not a gun nut, but smart enough not to mess with gun nuts

[ultraman6970]

Went to supermarket with wifey 3 days ago and told her... "are you prepared to eat dog or cat food?"... she said "doubt we will get to that point"... I said..."at this point pets food and baby food is the only thing nobody is buying".

[Ozz]

Your neighbor right now...
.