Hey Obtuse! Can I bend your ear on wheels?

[BdaGhisallo]

Obtuse,

We have chatted back and forth on various topics about your tremendous like of Mavic Cosmic wheels and your new love of Bontrager Aeolus 6.5 wheels. What I wonder, though, is what you think of Shimano's 7801 50mm Carbon wheels. Do they measure up? Are they a decent option? I know that Shimano make nice hubs and good cup and cone bearings can roll quite nicely, and they should be simple to maintain from that point of view.

There doesn't seem to be much feedback out there about Shimano's carbon wheels, both the shallow and deep versions, so I thought I would go to the font of a lot of wisdom in these parts!

I don't wish to preclude anyone else from offering comment so please feel free.


Many thanks,
Geoff

[ergott]

The Tour magazine tests seem to favor them. They are lighter and more aero wheels, but the Shimano wheels are supposed to be a great combination of performance and strength/stiffness.

There is much more on this at the WW forum.

[obtuse]

bda-

i haven't spent alot of time on them but if there is one thing shimano has always done better than pretty much everyone else it is bearings and hubs. the new dura-ace design is superb and you can be assured that the things will be rock solid and really smooth.

the rim is a solid structure carbon and went through severel iterations before they settled on the final one for production. they're right around that magical 1550-1600 gram mark where wheels seem to be light enough to feel fast and accelerate well but don't misbehave too much in steady power output situations.

i have not cornernered hard on the shimano wheels so i can't speak of their performance in a criterium like situation; one place where i think carbones and aeolous both excell and where zipps to me at least, are extremely lacking.

the guys who are sponsored by shimano on rabobank and milram seem to use the wheels in question in awful lot which tells me they're probably fine.

obtuse

[BdaGhisallo]

Thanks for the reply. On that notion of the Rabo, Milram, T-Mobile and Gerolsteiner guys using the shimano wheels, there is one thing that concerned me. That was that many of the wheels they ride seem to be respoked using regular hubs, be they dura ace hubs or tune hubs in Gerolsteiner's case. Any idea why that is? Is the stock construction not stiff enough for them? Aero reasons? The stock wheels did test quite stiff in the Tour tests so I am a little confused about them.

Can you shed any more light on things for me?

[obtuse]

Thanks for the reply. On that notion of the Rabo, Milram, T-Mobile and Gerolsteiner guys using the shimano wheels, there is one thing that concerned me. That was that many of the wheels they ride seem to be respoked using regular hubs, be they dura ace hubs or tune hubs in Gerolsteiner's case. Any idea why that is? Is the stock construction not stiff enough for them? Aero reasons? The stock wheels did test quite stiff in the Tour tests so I am a little confused about them.

Can you shed any more light on things for me?


i think that has more to do with the amount of carbon wheels out there getting tested. these teams got what they got and if they needed more wheels they needed to build'em up themselves. i think the shimano benelux distributor also markets carbon fiber rims under the pro name and this is where most of those wheels came from lack of stiffness has not been a concern with these wheels as far as i know.

obtuse

[BdaGhisallo]

Ah.. that does make sense.

So last question, if I may? Can you rank these three wheels in terms of preference, considering your limited exposure to the Shimano wheels.

If you had to choose between the Cosmics, the Aeolus 5.0 and the Shimano Carbon 50mm, how would they rank?

Thanks so much Obtuse.
Geoff

[swoop]

i had a friend on cref last year that used them and loved them. i think he wanted to have them lose a set... until his last paycheck didn't show.... unless he 'found' them.

or something like that.

[obtuse]

Ah.. that does make sense.

So last question, if I may? Can you rank these three wheels in terms of preference, considering your limited exposure to the Shimano wheels.

If you had to choose between the Cosmics, the Aeolus 5.0 and the Shimano Carbon 50mm, how would they rank?

Thanks so much Obtuse.
Geoff

first

aelous for all around riding and racing.

second

cosmic for crits (they're the best wheel in a hard corner but a bit heavier)

third

shimano (because i have the least experience with them.)

obtuse

[Archibald]

i haven't spent alot of time on them but if there is one thing shimano has always done better than pretty much everyone else it is bearings and hubs. the new dura-ace design is superb and you can be assured that the things will be rock solid and really smooth.
Too bad it's not that way on the MTB hubs. I've never had a ****mano MTB hub make it through even a single summer season of riding without crapping out. Last set of XT's used on the NZ trip were no different (I went cheap on the 29" wheelset). Brand new with 1 month of backcountry riding and the rear hub is already skipping and developed about .050 sideplay at the rim. Front hub is a little notchy. Bearings are poorly sealed. In comparison, of the two other wheelsets on that trip one used a 2 year old set of Hopes that are still perfect and the other a set of the orginal Hadleys, also still perfect (though the newer Hadleys don't have that great of a rep).

Shimano hubs are crap!

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/new_line_cinema/austin_powers_in_goldmember/mike_myers/goldmember5.jpg

[Simon Q]

bda-

i haven't spent alot of time on them but if there is one thing shimano has always done better than pretty much everyone else it is bearings and hubs. the new dura-ace design is superb and you can be assured that the things will be rock solid and really smooth.

the rim is a solid structure carbon and went through severel iterations before they settled on the final one for production. they're right around that magical 1550-1600 gram mark where wheels seem to be light enough to feel fast and accelerate well but don't misbehave too much in steady power output situations.

i have not cornernered hard on the shimano wheels so i can't speak of their performance in a criterium like situation; one place where i think carbones and aeolous both excell and where zipps to me at least, are extremely lacking.

the guys who are sponsored by shimano on rabobank and milram seem to use the wheels in question in awful lot which tells me they're probably fine.

obtuse

Obtuse, curious on your thoughts on Zipps. On many tests Zipps seem to come out on top in terms of aerodynamics. If you are a straight line rider (ie no crits etc but rather TT's or long roads without corners to accelerate out of) could Zipps be the ones?

[obtuse]

Obtuse, curious on your thoughts on Zipps. On many tests Zipps seem to come out on top in terms of aerodynamics. If you are a straight line rider (ie no crits etc but rather TT's or long roads without corners to accelerate out of) could Zipps be the ones?


zipps are really aero and always come out really great on the tests. i just don't like how they corner or feel when pushed hard. for a tt or for a triathlete or for the type of riding you are describing they are just about perfect and i like their disc for longer non-track use.

obtuse

[Simon Q]

zipps are really aero and always come out really great on the tests. i just don't like how they corner or feel when pushed hard. for a tt or for a triathlete or for the type of riding you are describing they are just about perfect and i like their disc for longer non-track use.

obtuse


Thanks Obtuse

[rnhood]

Zipps came out on top in the aero test on this site. But overall the 7801 50mm carbon was the pick of the litter.

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-4934445.html

[saab2000]

I rode a set of 808s in the spring for about 30 miles. They were the only carbon wheels I have ever really ridden. I did not have a problem with them, but I also have no reference point. Obtuse clearly has more experience with this and since he steered me right on my Nucleons I would say he knows a thing or two about wheels.

I would tend to pay attention if he says something about wheels.

FWIW, I did not have any trouble with the gusty winds with the very deep section 808s. And they seemed fairly stiff. The tires were good and the guy who glued them on did a perfect job. So there were no weaknesses. They were loud wheels though and that is a turnoff in my world. I did not have any trouble with cornering, but did not take any really, really hard either. Moderately hard, but not 300-meters-to-the-finish-line-of-the-US-crit-championship-with-a-90-degree-turn-hard.

[Simon Q]

Zipps came out on top in the aero test on this site. But overall the 7801 50mm carbon was the pick of the litter.

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-4934445.html


Looks like Obtuse beat them to them to it!

Depends on where your prefs lie. I do TT's, longer road races out of town (no crtits) and training rides along the coast and back (ie no corners) so aero is very high on my list.