How much do you eat on your rides?

[Clean39T]

82mi today, 5,500ft climbing (lots of 10%+), 38-50deg, solo - just about 5-hrs of ride time. I'm somewhere between 185-190lbs, 6'3".

1 Bagel, 1 cup of coffee, 2 SIS gels, 2 Picky Bars, 1 bottle of sweet-tea, 1 can of coconut water. 2 small bottles of water.

Started cramping the last few miles - most likely because this was the longest ride I've done since Fall 2019, easily..

So, am I under nourishing? How much do you eat on rides of similar length, or in general?

[temeyone]

Cut the coffee out. Seriously. I did and the cramps have stopped. Otherwise, try bringing a little baggie of olives (not kidding). Briny saltiness is a nice counter to the syrupy sweet energy bars/gels and keeps sodium levels up. Plus, puts to spit at stuff!

[gbcoupe]

82mi today, 5,500ft climbing (lots of 10%+), 38-50deg, solo - just about 5-hrs of ride time. I'm somewhere between 185-190lbs, 6'3".

1 Bagel, 1 cup of coffee, 2 SIS gels, 2 Picky Bars, 1 bottle of sweet-tea, 1 can of coconut water. 2 small bottles of water.

Started cramping the last few miles - most likely because this was the longest ride I've done since Fall 2019, easily..

So, am I under nourishing? How much do you eat on rides of similar length, or in general?

I think you're probably good on the food if not a little too much. Only 2 small bottles of water? That would shut me down for sure.

[colker]

Aren´t we supposed to eat bananas to stop muscle cramp?

[gbcoupe]

Aren´t we supposed to eat bananas to stop muscle cramp?

And yes to bananas! :banana: (first time I've used this guy).

[smead]

For me, cramping is more from lack of fitness and/or the effects of dehydration / not enough electrolytes. Lack of calories results in a bonk (no power, high heart rate, dizzy, etc..). With that said, however, I would have eaten more than you did on that ride and I'm 150. I do find that I eat a bit less as I become more fit simply because I work less hard on the same given route. YMMV of course.

[AngryScientist]

i say you fell into the mental trap of "it's not hot and i'm not thirsty so i dont need to drink more"

that would not be enough water for me on 80+ miles.

[Clean39T]

Cut the coffee out. Seriously. I did and the cramps have stopped. Otherwise, try bringing a little baggie of olives (not kidding). Briny saltiness is a nice counter to the syrupy sweet energy bars/gels and keeps sodium levels up. Plus, puts to spit at stuff!

I kind of never cramp...and it was more just a few spasms, not full-on contracting and not letting go, thankfully.......but yeah, I need to quit coffee at some point, for many reasons.. :rolleyes:

[Clean39T]

i say you fell into the mental trap of "it's not hot and i'm not thirsty so i dont need to drink more"

that would not be enough water for me on 80+ miles.

I generally have to force myself to drink on the bike. I'm just not someone who gets thirsty riding. I often come home from a 2-hour ride with 1.5 bottles worth of water. Maybe I need to work on that..

[Clean39T]

For me, cramping is more from lack of fitness and/or the effects of dehydration / not enough electrolytes. Lack of calories results in a bonk (no power, high heart rate, dizzy, etc..). With that said, however, I would have eaten more than you did on that ride and I'm 150. I do find that I eat a bit less as I become more fit simply because I work less hard on the same given route. YMMV of course.

It's probably lack of fitness. I had to push pretty hard on some tough climbs - 36x28 up 15-17% is a workout, at least when you're trying to stay on top of the gear and not just slow grind it... oof. And I was generally jamming it all day with no breaks (other than the coffee/bagel ten miles in).

[mhespenheide]

I generally have to force myself to drink on the bike. I'm just not someone who gets thirsty riding. I often come home from a 2-hour ride with 1.5 bottles worth of water. Maybe I need to work on that..

If it's not hot, I'm similar.

I find, though, that if I stop briefly mid-ride even for just a few minutes, it's easy to knock back 1/3 to 1/2 of a bottle and then start riding again. I'm talking about unscrewing the top of a bottle at the top of a climb and guzzling, then starting back up.

[R3awak3n]

you gotta drink dude. I used to do that. I was the one who showed up to a ride with 1 bottle of water when everyone had 2. I just forgot to drink/was never thirsty (until it was too late). Also not just water but electrolyte mixes, always 1 bottle water, 1 skratch or whatever.

I have been reading and watching everything dirty kanza training and most important thing is hydration. Second is good which I am working on, I usually don't eat a lot but trying to do 100cal an hour, maybe a bit more.

[scoobydrew]

Food wise I think that's a reasonable amount. I'd rather be consuming more food/calories than bonking (not fun!). For the type of ride that you've done, I usually have a bowl of oats, slice of toast with jam, a banana, and sometimes coffee. During the ride, I eat either 2-3 bars.

I used to cramp a lot during rides, especially about 25 miles in. Other than nutrition, what mostly addressed it was enough hydration before and during the ride. During the ride, I've set a "lap timer" on my computer that goes off every 15 min reminding me to drink some water. If it's particularly hot out, I usually drop a Nuun tablet into one of my bottles.

[mtechnica]

I eat barely anything. I might have a snack if it’s over 30 miles, a banana or a bar. I have to force myself to eat on long rides.

[Kirk007]

I need to quit coffee at some point, for many reasons.. :rolleyes:

Sacrilege! You'd never make it on an Andy Hampsten ride in Italia with that attitude - hard to pass a cafe with that crew without at least a quick espresso. And in France (and elsewhere), an espresso is the polite way to get whoever is at the bar to fill up your water bottles if your somewhere without a public fountain. Keep the coffee, increase the H20 ; )

[FlashUNC]

Drink, drink, drink.

Ye God's that is entirely not enough water.

[OtayBW]

It's probably lack of fitness. I had to push pretty hard on some tough climbs - 36x28 up 15-17% is a workout, at least when you're trying to stay on top of the gear and not just slow grind it... oof. And I was generally jamming it all day with no breaks (other than the coffee/bagel ten miles in).Yes - more fluids, and geez -I'd be taking at least a couple of breaks in 82 mi....

[Tickdoc]

My nickname on long rides is “crampy”. And I eat too much anytime except on rides. I’ve tried salt tabs, sport legs, etc. I eat bananas, try to eat something every hour, I stretch mid ride, I do the leg shaky thing... none of it really matters it seems on any ride over 70 miles. Ymmv.

[tv_vt]

I'd say the cramping is just due to the distance and you not being adapted to it. I've noticed that when I push the envelope in early summer, that first long ride can bring on cramps. Once I'm adapted, I'm good.

Ditch the coffee? Are you nuts? Why do you do these rides?;)

Watermelon, bananas, and pickle juice are some strategies. Maybe just not enough water?

I'd bet, though, that the next 80+ mile ride you do will not be as bad.
(BTW, hilly 80 miles is impressive for early March. I'm still getting up to flat 40 mile range right now.)

[rccardr]

Do the bagel (add PBJ) and coffee an hour before ride time. Then stroupwaffles or sportbeans or honey stingers two hours in. Then the gels an hour apart a three and four. Lots of water the whole time.

Dude, you're burning 8-10 calories a minute on that kind of ride. Replace some of what's being consumed.

And, yes, you will suffer on longer rides until your body gets used to it again.

[vincenz]

50 miles and under, just water and a sports drink. After that, some type of gel, preferably with caffeine. After 65 and more, some type of solid food, and this is when I start to take SaltSticks too. 1 every 45 min until end of ride along with more solid food, and I've avoided cramps because this is when it starts for me. This has worked for me for up to 150 miles. Oh, and water. Lots of it.

[NHAero]

What's the calorie count? I'd be aiming for at least an average of 200/hr. I don't usually eat on rides of under 2-1/2 hours after having a decent meal beforehand.
Seems light on the water. I never drank enough until I got a Camelback for MTBing and liked how it changed my hydration enough that I started using it on the road. I have a large handlebar bag on my Anderson and can drop the water bladder in there and leave the hose so I can pull it out, nice to not have the weight on my back. On the Firefly I wear the pack.




QUOTE=Clean39T;2670207]82mi today, 5,500ft climbing (lots of 10%+), 38-50deg, solo - just about 5-hrs of ride time. I'm somewhere between 185-190lbs, 6'3".

1 Bagel, 1 cup of coffee, 2 SIS gels, 2 Picky Bars, 1 bottle of sweet-tea, 1 can of coconut water. 2 small bottles of water.

Started cramping the last few miles - most likely because this was the longest ride I've done since Fall 2019, easily..

So, am I under nourishing? How much do you eat on rides of similar length, or in general?[/QUOTE]

[colker]

I generally have to force myself to drink on the bike. I'm just not someone who gets thirsty riding. I often come home from a 2-hour ride with 1.5 bottles worth of water. Maybe I need to work on that..


That´s what we all do: force ourselves into drinking. don´t wait to be thirsty or you are in trouble.

[Andy sti]

I think the crampy type feeling is likely just a fitness thing. Wouldn't worry about it. Just keep pilling on the hours and it will get better.

Your nutrition seems ok but that depends on how it's spaced out. Looks like you ate ~ 1100-1200 Cal and probably burned ~ 2500-3000 Kcals. You can't, nor should you, replace all of what you expend during a ride while you're riding. Drink more! Coffee and caffeine are totally fine on rides.

[madsciencenow]

50 miles and under, just water and a sports drink. After that, some type of gel, preferably with caffeine. After 65 and more, some type of solid food, and this is when I start to take SaltSticks too. 1 every 45 min until end of ride along with more solid food, and I've avoided cramps because this is when it starts for me. This has worked for me for up to 150 miles. Oh, and water. Lots of it.



This is pretty similar to my formula and I drink so damn much coffee in the AM my HR is up for an hour or two into a ride.

Caffeine is a diuretic but if I’m hydrating well with water I don’t worry too much about it. This said, If it’s really hot I do try to use gels that don’t have it just to conserve whatever water I can. If it’s in the 90’s and humid it’s damn near impossible for me to drink enough water on a long ride. Late in a ride like you did I’d be putting down a bottle every 10 miles or so.

My personal opinion echoes what others have said that it’s likely a fitness issue. Keep doing longer rides and and hydrating and I’d bet you will have less cramping as the season goes along.


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[ColonelJLloyd]

you gotta drink dude.

+1

I agree that the cramping is likely just fitness/not having done a ride of that length in a while. But, you have to hydrate. Set an alarm if you have to.

[Clean39T]

Thanks all. I'll try to up the hydration and keep more on top of the nutrition.

Plus I should probably do some 50/60/70 mile rides and not jump from doing mostly 1.5-2hrs straight to 5hrs. Today was about testing my fitness a month out from a gravel race I'm still mulling participating in.......that is if it isn't cancelled due to the C-19 situation.

The coffee comment was just about general lifestyle adjustments to improve sleep. I'm sensitive to caffeine and know a second cup even mid-morning means I stay up too late and don't sleep well. It's all too easy to have that second cup, plus a coke or sweet tea, on a ride - and while it helps lower the RPE, it hurts recovery by hurting sleep.

[Andy sti]

You should have done yesterday’s gravel race - now that was good training!:banana:

[Octave]

Load up on fiber and fat before the ride, don't worry about calories during it. This takes some adaptation, but it works wonders in the end.

This weekend I did back to back 7hr rides, both over 100mi and >7000ft of climbing, no food on either. The pre-ride meal was high fat, high fiber (a big bowl of cooked rye flakes, nut butter, and some honey plus a nice crack of salt) and during each ride I consumed about 2.5 liters of water.

Post-ride replenishment of glycogen stores is key, too. But the reality is that unless you have trained your body to be very highly sugar-dependent, you are unlikely to use many of the calories you consume during a ride while on that ride. Your muscles alone can store way more than enough calories for a ride like you describe, and if you can adapt your body to more readily tap into fat stores, all the better.

YMMV...

[saab2000]

82mi today, 5,500ft climbing (lots of 10%+), 38-50deg, solo - just about 5-hours.....

So so so incredibly envious!

[Hilltopperny]

As somebody who suffers from muscle spasms and cramping from time to time it seems the root cause is dehydration/overheating. If I am fully hydrated it just doesn’t happen. Coffee is a natural diuretic and will definitely bring about dehydration quicker.

I try to drink at least a pint of water before I head out for a ride and will bring along two 20+ ounce bottles and usually drink some chocolate milk towards the end of a hard effort on a long ride. Seems to help with muscle fatigue and recovery.


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[Nomadmax]

I eat 50% of the calories I'm expected to burn on the ride.

[jimoots]

You had plenty of fuel, not enough water me thinks.

I regularly do 4-5 hours (generally two hard 20-30 min efforts and the rest steady pressure on the pedals) on a few litres of water, a gel or two and a coffee.

I am definitely hungry at the end though and eat quite a bit at home - just don’t like riding feeing “full”.

As with so many things, YMMV. Definitely focus on hydration though.

[kiwisimon]

If I am fully hydrated it just doesn’t happen. Coffee is a natural diuretic and will definitely bring about dehydration quicker.


I'm pretty sure the new science is that coffee won't dehydrate you any more or less than any other source of hydration over the same period of exercise. You may need to pee sooner but you won't get dehydrated any faster.

OP I think you maybe went from zero to 82 in too much of a rush. Food wise I'd think you are definitely not starving for calories on a 82 mile ride. More water on rides and some shorter rides with more intense spells should see the end of most cramps,

[Hilltopperny]

[QUOTE=kiwisimon;2670420]I'm pretty sure the new science is that coffee won't dehydrate you any more or less than any other source of hydration over the same period of exercise. You may need to pee sooner but you won't get dehydrated any faster.



OP I think you maybe went from zero to 82 in too much of a rush. Food wise I'd think you are definitely not starving for calories on a 82 mile ride. More water on rides and some shorter rides with more intense spells should see the end of most cramps,[/


The studies state that drinking caffeine doesn’t necessarily increase dehydration. I actually find these studies to be quite misleading as I can pop a couple of caffeine infused gels and they do not have the same effect on me as drinking coffee. I can really only relate it to my own experiences and how it makes me feel.

Coffee makes me sweat profusely/urinate more frequently while caffeine containing tablets just give me some energy without the same side effects. I wonder who funded these new studies as I have a hard time believing that if I drink coffee instead of water that it will have virtually the same effect on my body during longer bouts of exercise. I don’t understand how if I have to frequently urinate/sweat out uric acid/toxins more due to what I’ve ingested that my body won’t dehydrate quicker? Doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense from my experience.


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[Hellgate]

Drink more, much more.

[Ozz]

I generally have to force myself to drink on the bike. I'm just not someone who gets thirsty riding. I often come home from a 2-hour ride with 1.5 bottles worth of water. Maybe I need to work on that..

I used to set a timer on my HR monitor to beep every 15 minutes to remind me to take a drink.....

[cal_len1]

There is so much dogma around cramping, I find it incredible sometimes. Really, a lot of the experts aren't able to replicate it in a lab setting, much less find an option that reduces the prevalence of it. Here's a good resource if you want to learn more about what the science says. There are also other trainerroad episodes that touch on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ThnsbmVQwQ

[Clean39T]

There is so much dogma around cramping, I find it incredible sometimes. Really, a lot of the experts aren't able to replicate it in a lab setting, much less find an option that reduces the prevalence of it. Here's a good resource if you want to learn more about what the science says. There are also other trainerroad episodes that touch on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ThnsbmVQwQ

I've listened to all of those..... and I thought the takeaway was that cramping is generally due to overuse of the muscles, but may be exacerbated by drastically underfueling/hydrating and that all "cures" are just about sending conflicting messages to your brain to override your automatic response....basically so your brain goes "pickle juice, ***?!?!?" and stops thinking about needing to cramp and get you off your bike..

[Clean39T]

[QUOTE=kiwisimon;2670420]I'm pretty sure the new science is that coffee won't dehydrate you any more or less than any other source of hydration over the same period of exercise. You may need to pee sooner but you won't get dehydrated any faster.



OP I think you maybe went from zero to 82 in too much of a rush. Food wise I'd think you are definitely not starving for calories on a 82 mile ride. More water on rides and some shorter rides with more intense spells should see the end of most cramps,[/


The studies state that drinking caffeine doesn’t necessarily increase dehydration. I actually find these studies to be quite misleading as I can pop a couple of caffeine infused gels and they do not have the same effect on me as drinking coffee. I can really only relate it to my own experiences and how it makes me feel.

Coffee makes me sweat profusely/urinate more frequently while caffeine containing tablets just give me some energy without the same side effects. I wonder who funded these new studies as I have a hard time believing that if I drink coffee instead of water that it will have virtually the same effect on my body during longer bouts of exercise. I don’t understand how if I have to frequently urinate/sweat out uric acid/toxins more due to what I’ve ingested that my body won’t dehydrate quicker? Doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense from my experience.


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I definitely didn't go 0mi to 82mi - more like 40mi average rides over winter to 82mi...

I wonder if my underhydrating is responsible for me ammonia-smelling sweat after harder rides?

[tctyres]

Clean39T, I'm about your size. You should be eating 2000 calories on the bike. You need to load an extra 2000 calories at around lunchtime the day before. You can eat whatever you like before the ride and after. You should have a plus sized dinner the night before, but lunch is the big one.

Just for reference, I've been rolling an R-16 (one 200k/month for 16 months on RUSA brevets and permanents). My typical 200k time is about 8:20.

Resources you should check into are the Trainerroad youtube videos:
https://youtu.be/p5GcdUr4PXg
https://youtu.be/HKy8iF3Kw10

Also, check out Feedzone portables: https://www.amazon.com/Feed-Zone-Portables-Cookbook-Go/dp/1937715000. The intro to this book is worth the price of it. You'll start making your snax. (He makes the case that coconut water is a waste of money, fwiw)

Edit: Also, I like coffee, so I won't cut it out. Do what makes you happy on that front.

[cgolvin]

I used to set a timer on my HR monitor to beep every 15 minutes to remind me to take a drink.....

I am also a notorious under-hydrater and have used a similar tactic. Now I've trained myself, when glancing at my computer, to notice when the time (roughly) hits a 15 minute marker and take a hit of liquid.

I did a slightly longer ride than yours on Saturday with a bit more elevation and only ate a third of a bar plus a couple of Clif blocks, but I had a big bowl of oatmeal with nuts, raisins, and granola pre-ride. That approach seems to work for me since I never cramp.

[donevwil]

Question to those with cold weather riding experience: Cold water on a cold ride results in a struggle to hydrate. Any suggestions?

Rode with my wife Sunday so I couldn't (didn't) ramp up the watts to stay warm. Cold (for us) at start (~39°) figuring it'd warm up significantly during the ride as is typical here. It didn't, windy and upper 40's by the end. Being under dressed didn't help, every swig of water was like jumping into glacial runoff.

[tctyres]

Question to those with cold weather riding experience: Cold water on a cold ride results in a struggle to hydrate. Any suggestions?


Put something in that water bottle you absolutely know you will want to drink. My go-to is iced tea with ginseng with a light amount of natural sugar (ie, no corn syrup).

The other thing to do is sample a few things in convenience stores to see what you like. Generally, do this off the bike. Is there a beverage you haven't tried but looks good?

If gatorade is your jam, go with it. My problem with gatorade is the salt --- it's too salty for me. I used to do it, but I can't. I will drink 1 bottle after a ride, but no more than that. I've tried Snapple --- too sugary.

There is a correlation between sugary drinks on the bike and tooth decay. Be aware of that one.

[pdmtong]

FWIW if I do the longer coastal loop say 70/6800' I usually eat over the course of the ride 3 gels, one pack of clif block/honey stinger chews, two honey stinger waffles and maybe a light snack at a store stop. I'll drink four large water bottles and maybe a gatorade. One bottle may have Nuun (all the electroylytes without the sugar), the other bottle always has clear water (in case I want to dose my head wash hands or my glasses or in case i hit the deck and need to wash a wound.

As others have mentioned, I too think you should be drinking more than two small water bottles

[cgolvin]

I've tried Snapple --- too fruity.

Fixed it for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCOfpfPurwo

[tctyres]

Fixed it for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCOfpfPurwo

:p:D

[fffuhq]

My Problem is eating everything after the ride so it is basically canceled out for weight loss.

[benb]

My guess is OP is not eating enough, and too much junk for my taste, and not necessarily great on electrolyte replacement.

I would be eating and drinking more on that ride. Depends on the weather.

OP did not list kJ/kCal or any power data. If you have that data it's really helpful.

On a ride like that I'd likely eat 2-3 clif bars or maybe 2 of something more substantial like a Pro bar. 3-5 bottles of Nuun, gatorade, etc.. of the course of the ride depending on temperature.

5 hour ride I'm burning > 2000 calories every time so I'm going to eat. Pretty much any time I'm in shape to ride 5 hours I have little weight on my body to lose so I'm eating.

I love coffee but I never have it on a ride. Only time I eat anything other than bars and such on a ride is maybe a banana. Anything else is only if it's a group ride where people insist on stopping at Cafes. Once I put caffeine in my system on a ride it's too easy to crash or get stomach issues.

I use Gels as a last resort. It's about as appetizing as drinking maple syrup and it's all super high glycemic sugar rush and crash stuff. No point outside of a race or something where there's no other option.

[Dired]

Been suffering with cramps on rides over 60 miles all my life. Las year I discovered sis beta fuel and saltstick chews and between the two I feel like my body is performing a lot better in the long haul. I also have the pickle drink as an emergency backup but haven't had to go there yet.

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[Blue Jays]

It seems like an adequate amount of food during the ride to me.
The meal subsequent to the ride is important for the next ride.
A good and nutritious recovery smoothie does wonders...in my experience.

[veggieburger]

We’re all built differently, but I’m going to go with a lack of salt.

[Pinned]

If you didn't eat anything before the ride that just isn't enough food - or water.

You should be drinking at least a bottle an hour if you're sweating, less than that and you'll definitely be very dehydrated at the end.

Your total food list is somewhere between 900-1100 calories (depending on the tea/bagel). You were definitely at a large calorie deficit by the end of the ride, some deficit is a given but I'd say an additional few hundred calories would have gone a long way.

[Octave]

:confused:
My guess is OP is not eating enough, and too much junk for my taste, and not necessarily great on electrolyte replacement.

I would be eating and drinking more on that ride. Depends on the weather.

OP did not list kJ/kCal or any power data. If you have that data it's really helpful.

On a ride like that I'd likely eat 2-3 clif bars or maybe 2 of something more substantial like a Pro bar. 3-5 bottles of Nuun, gatorade, etc.. of the course of the ride depending on temperature.

vs

1 Bagel, 1 cup of coffee, 2 SIS gels, 2 Picky Bars, 1 bottle of sweet-tea, 1 can of coconut water. 2 small bottles of water.

Nearly every Clif bar starts its ingredient list with brown rice syrup, aka amongst the most nutritionally deficient forms of sugar. Don't kid yourself, Clif bars are candy bars with a different packaging. So are Picky bars. And Gatorade? Sweet-tea by a different name and with more artificial flavors/colors.

There's nothing wrong with eating that stuff if you want, but own what you eat: candy and quick-digesting sugar-laden bars are what they are. Drop the "junk" label. Or, start eating real food. It performs just as well, if not better, than the crap being marketed as healthy packaged food (https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=2011&issue=11000&article=00029&type=Fulltext), and doesn't leave behind a mountain of plastic. Each ride of this length generates 2-4 plastic (usually non-recyclable, like Clif or SIS) bar wrappers, whatever plastic bottles or aluminum cans you're consuming your beverages from, or at best a plastic tube full of hydration tablets?! :eek:

[benb]

Nope.. the Clif bar has a bunch of fiber and other stuff mixed in, that makes it substantially different than a Gel.

Glycemic index of a granola bar type product is quite different from a syrup.

Sure there's syrup in a bar, the syrup gives you short term energy, the other *food* in the bar keeps you running in the longer period. If you just rely on Gels & Caffeine you make yourself way more vulnerable to a crash. Even a bagel is much more of a quick carb spike than a bar that has a bunch of fiber in it. A lot of the bars are a bowl of oatmeal with most of the water taken out.

Sweet tea is not going to have the same electrolyte balance as a sports drink.

Gatorade is a crap sports drink but if you're stuck buying a drink at the gas station on the ride Gatorade's better than caffeinated sweet tea. Compared to fancier stuff gatorade is short on potassium & magnesium compared to sodium and has too much sugar but tea won't have much of anything.

Sweet tea products are highly likely to be HFCS as well which has different ramifications for different people. Personally I'm way more likely to get a little sick drinking a HFCS beverage on a ride.

Also you completely missed the point of my post.. the stuff I listed was like 2-3X the calories of a bagel & a sweet tea & coffee.

Completely ignore the choices of foods if you're burning 2500 calories 1 bar @250 calories is not sufficient compared to 2-3. Aren't Gels usually about 100 calories? A huge bagel could be 500, but you're still about 50% of the recommendation of replacing 1/2 what you burn while you ride.

I just went back and looked up the data from my last 5 hour ride (solo) ... 5 hours 32 minutes, 90 miles, flatter than the OPs ride, 150w average power, 182w normalized power, 2928kJ, 2924 kcal.

If I had ate what he ate on that ride I'd have bonked for sure. 1500-2000 cal on the ride would do much better than 500-750.

[tctyres]

@benb
I agree with most of what you wrote, but if you haven't do check out this book. He goes over most of what you wrote, and gets away from the bars because they tend to dehydrate athletes.


Also, check out Feedzone portables: https://www.amazon.com/Feed-Zone-Portables-Cookbook-Go/dp/1937715000. The intro to this book is worth the price of it.

[Octave]

Nope.. the Clif bar has a bunch of fiber and other stuff mixed in, that makes it substantially different than a Gel.Dude specifically stated the bars, as well. Apples to apples; don't compare a gel and a bar.

Just for posterity...

Picky Bar: "Peanuts, dates*, tapioca syrup*, brown rice*, cocoa powder (Dutch alkalized), semi*sweet chocolate chips (sugar, chocolate liquor, cocoa butter), rice protein, sea salt, brown rice syrup*, mixed tocopherols (natural vitamin E). (*organic)"

Clif bar: "ORGANIC BROWN RICE SYRUP, ORGANIC ROLLED OATS, SOY PROTEIN ISOLATE, ORGANIC CANE SYRUP, ORGANIC ROASTED SOYBEANS, RICE FLOUR, COCOA, ORGANIC CANE SUGAR, ORGANIC SOY FLOUR, ORGANIC OAT FIBER, NATURAL FLAVORS, ORGANIC HIGH OLEIC SUNFLOWER OIL, COFFEE EXTRACT, ORGANIC UNSWEETENED CHOCOLATE, ORGANIC COFFEE BEANS, ORGANIC COCOA BUTTER, SEA SALT, ORGANIC COCOA, ORGANIC PALM KERNEL OIL, ORGANIC RICE STARCH, BARLEY MALT EXTRACT, ORGANIC COFFEE FRUIT EXTRACT (CONTAINS CAFFEINE), SOY LECITHIN."

Glycemic index of a granola bar type product is quite different from a syrup.Yes, and since we're comparing apples and oranges, the GI from a syrup is almost identical to a Gatorade.

A lot of the bars are a bowl of oatmeal with most of the water taken out.Yeah, if you're buying Snicker's branded oatmeal.

Also you completely missed the point of my post.. the stuff I listed was like 2-3X the calories of a bagel & a sweet tea & coffee.Gotcha. I wasn't trying to refer to everything in your post, simply pointing out that labels about what food is junk and what food carries the halo of health are mostly marketing bullsh*t. Effective bullsh*t, but bullsh*t nonetheless.

I just went back and looked up the data from my last 5 hour ride (solo) ... 5 hours 32 minutes, 90 miles, flatter than the OPs ride, 150w average power, 182w normalized power, 2928kJ, 2924 kcal.

If I had ate what he ate on that ride I'd have bonked for sure. 1500-2000 cal on the ride would do much better than 500-750.Cool. My Sunday ride was 164.7km (102.33mi) with 1987m (6519ft) of climbing. Just about 6hr of riding. ~3286 kCal.

Beforehand I ate a large bowl of rye flakes, some homemade soy yogurt, a banana and a few tablespoons of hazelnut butter. And a large chemex made from 40g of coffee, split with my wife. On the ride I had 3 liters of water, plus when I stopped to pee I saw some wild asparagus and ate it (~20 kcal). YMMV.

As others have stated here, hydration was more likely the determining factor in the cramps. You really don't need to eat all that much on a ride. Refueling is where you can make a big difference. The gut is not very active while riding, especially at tempo.

And for what it's worth, my ride the day before was 170km with 2692m of climbing. My breakfast was about the same. I ate a banana after the first 100km. When I got home I ate, like, a bunch of falafel. Don't overthink it.

[wernerherzogsid]

One should ensure any food nourishes the spirit as well as the body. Otherwise we are no better than cows, mindlessly chewing on so much cud.

[benb]

@benb
I agree with most of what you wrote, but if you haven't do check out this book. He goes over most of what you wrote, and gets away from the bars because they tend to dehydrate athletes.

That's pretty interesting stuff on dehydration as the hotter it gets the more trouble I have.

Most of my choices are often because I choose options I can find on the road. Gels are kind of moot point because they're not typically available unless you ride past a bike shop.

If you're Tom Brady and your private chef follow you on the ride you have more options.

I've read enough from Allen Lim to know I'm not going to start spending 1 day a week cooking up my own feed zone recipes instead of just buying stuff off the shelf. I already don't have enough time anymore for this sport. He was often recommending cooking up your own bars.

[kramnnim]

I’ve averaged 60-65 100 miles rides a year for the last few years. Typically I eat a bowl of cereal for breakfast, ride 50 miles (with water in my bottles), and stop at a fast food restaurant for a normal sized combo. I drink as much soda as I can while stopped, and fill my bottles with whatever non carbonated corn syrupy beverage available. And then ride home.

36, 145 pounds.

[giordana93]

I don't remember anyone asking the question: were you hungry?

In all seriousness, in my experience, a lack of food will lead to some form of bonking (running out of gas) but not cramping. I think you overworked your muscles for your current level of fitness, and probably not enough fluids. We lose water through respiration as well as perspiration.

[tkbike]

82mi today, 5,500ft climbing (lots of 10%+), 38-50deg, solo - just about 5-hrs of ride time. I'm somewhere between 185-190lbs, 6'3".

1 Bagel, 1 cup of coffee, 2 SIS gels, 2 Picky Bars, 1 bottle of sweet-tea, 1 can of coconut water. 2 small bottles of water.

Started cramping the last few miles - most likely because this was the longest ride I've done since Fall 2019, easily..

So, am I under nourishing? How much do you eat on rides of similar length, or in general?

I’m probably not a good example, barely SS age 6’2” 160 lbs. I ride the Rist Canyon loop from Fort Collins/Tinmath area about once a week. I don’t track miles, elevation gain or even know what a watt is. I do know it is about 70 miles and best guess is 4000-5000’ of elevation gain.
My usual routine is 3 cups of coffee and 2 pieces of avocado toast before ride. Carry 2 large water bottles with a honey, vinegar, ginger mix and 2 waffles during ride.

[Clean39T]

I don't remember anyone asking the question: were you hungry?

In all seriousness, in my experience, a lack of food will lead to some form of bonking (running out of gas) but not cramping. I think you overworked your muscles for your current level of fitness, and probably not enough fluids. We lose water through respiration as well as perspiration.

Yes. I was. That's why I stopped at a convenience store...and I can't deal with Clif bars (something in them upsets my stomach), so I went for the caffeine/sugar hit of the sweet-tea (two ingredients - black tea and sugar).. And then about 10mi from home the hunger knock was hitting again, and since I was solo, the best option was stopping at a thai food truck for that coconut water. I didn't have time or interest in sitting down to a meal at that point. If this had been a group ride, or even one other person with me, I prolly would have stopped for lunch. As it was, I had no lock, and there wasn't really anywhere to stop anyway - so it was a long single-push training ride. Long for me anyway, at this time of the year, and after the winter I've had......

[Clean39T]

This has been an interesting thread with much food for thought .... ba-dum-tiss ..

Seems there are many ways to approach all this, but my main takeaway is that if it isn't a race, I should go ahead and build in some real food stops -- and if it is a race, I should stop anyway, cuz I have zero chance of winning and might as well food and water myself enough to enjoy the day...

[93KgBike]

Hmm. I'm your size, and I also ride like that. I would have eaten two sammies and a snickers at least.

[kramnnim]

...just reread the first post. For years I assumed the OP was a Quintana sized dude riding around in his 53t :(

[Clean39T]

...just reread the first post. For years I assumed the OP was a Quintana sized dude riding around in his 53t :(

I'm from Portland, assume everything I say or do is annoyingly ironic.....

[colker]

This has been an interesting thread with much food for thought .... ba-dum-tiss ..

Seems there are many ways to approach all this, but my main takeaway is that if it isn't a race, I should go ahead and build in some real food stops -- and if it is a race, I should stop anyway, cuz I have zero chance of winning and might as well food and water myself enough to enjoy the day...

Water. Lots of water. Everything else is wellcome.

[b3pkay]

I'm always curious about what and how much people eat on longer rides as I am NEVER NOT HUNGRY. It's amazing what good nutrition can do to make a ride more enjoyable and I've found that while eating on the ride is important, being sure I really fueled up the day before is essential.