An interesting read about privacy

[Velocipede]

I feel bad for the guy. But when you give someone essentially unlimited access this is what can happen.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/google-tracked-his-bike-ride-past-burglarized-home-made-him-n1151761

[Blue Jays]

Unfortunate guy minding his own business just out enjoying his own neighborhood.

[colker]

I feel bad for the guy. But when you give someone essentially unlimited access this is what can happen.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/google-tracked-his-bike-ride-past-burglarized-home-made-him-n1151761

That´s a bad detective job. Not a privacy issue.

[happycampyer]

Imagine if he had gotten a flat tire in front of the house—the data would show him stopping, but not why.

[Jef58]

Without sounding like a tin foil hat nut job, our privacy is slowly diminishing by default from technology. We are all capable to be in this guy's shoes regardless, unless you want to be a hermit in woods somewhere... Our everchanging convenient society with Alexa's, etc can certainly has some drawbacks that we may not even be aware of.

[Red Tornado]

Unintended consequences strike again.

[ultraman6970]

Future is now for me... not more star trek stuff that couldnt be possible but probably going warp... we need to comeback to simplicity, i get laugh at when the guys dont see a computer in my bikes :D And this is the reason I do not have any home helping device... im the most not IT guy in the planet and i used to work in IT. Poor guy, sure he will not use a lot of stuff from now on and i do not blame him.

[vincenz]

This is exactly why I don’t use android phones or amazon devices outside of work. I don’t agree with these companies’ stances on your privacy.

[zzy]

If you guys think that is bad you should read about what Amazon is doing with data gathered from RING devices..

[weiwentg]

If you guys think that is bad you should read about what Amazon is doing with data gathered from Nest devices..

Nest thermostats are owned by Google. Perhaps you mean the Ring door cameras?

[peanutgallery]

Now hear this...data mining is a thing. Plan accordingly and don't be naive

Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, apple etc, etc exist to eat us from the inside out. Never intended to be solely a platform for bragging about your cat, just a vehicle to monetize our personal data to sell widgets

Going back to my foil-lined safe room full of TP and hand sanitizer

[vincenz]

Now hear this...data mining is a thing. Plan accordingly and don't be naive



Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, apple etc, etc exist to eat us from the inside out. Never intended to be solely a platform for bragging about your cat, just a vehicle to monetize our personal data to sell widgets



Going back to my foil-lined safe room full of TP and hand sanitizer



True of the former 3 companies, but not the latter.

[herb5998]

The "geofence warrant" seems to be a major issue, if the information feeding into that request is bad, lots of potential for inadvertently targeting the wrong person in the search. Without multiple data points to narrow the search area it only creates lots of irrelevant data to search through.

For those of you that use google devices/apps/etc, there is a lot of data being collected, just like with other major players (Amazon, Apple, etc). Some of those companies will sell that data, or use it to direct advertising to your devices, some will not release it outside of their own organization, read the fine print in your user agreements.

People nowadays hand over much more info willingly to commercial companies....things that if the government wanted, they would freak out about.

[peanutgallery]

Would you like to buy a bridge?

True of the former 3 companies, but not the latter.

[Spdntrxi]

Would you like to buy a bridge?

apple is one of the worst offenders.. and I have a **** load of apple products. If something thinks they are not collecting loads of data it's laughable.

[vincenz]

Would you like to buy a bridge?


apple is one of the worst offenders.. and I have a **** load of apple products. If something thinks they are not collecting loads of data it's laughable.


In what way are they actively collecting your data to sell and invade on your privacy? Provide concrete, proven examples that show the same behavior patterns as the others. Also provide references.

[marciero]

In what way are they actively collecting your data to sell and invade on your privacy? Provide concrete, proven examples that show the same behavior patterns as the others. Also provide references.

Even with Facebook-sort of the poster child for surveillance capitalism- it's not necessarily about selling your data but using it in ways that benefit advertisers, and ultimately in modifying behaviors in ways that benefit advertisers, which is in ways more pernicious than simply selling it to third parties. I recall that may be largely confined to all the apps, which for the most part do this even when not in use. At minimum Apple does nothing to police the apps that it allows on the Apple store.

Some reading on this type of thing:

Zucked by Roger McNamee. Also several articles and interviews in news media
Surveillance Capitalism by Shosana Zuboff See a recent Sunday NYT article for abridged version

[vincenz]

Even with Facebook-sort of the poster child for surveillance capitalism- it's not necessarily about selling your data but using it in ways that benefit advertisers, and ultimately in modifying behaviors in ways that benefit advertisers, which is in ways more pernicious than simply selling it to third parties. I recall that may be largely confined to all the apps, which for the most part do this even when not in use. At minimum Apple does nothing to police the apps that it allows on the Apple store.

Some reading on this type of thing:

Zucked by Roger McNamee. Also several articles and interviews in news media
Surveillance Capitalism by Shosana Zuboff See a recent Sunday NYT article for abridged version

If they are informing these advertisers of your device usage patterns and geolocation information, that is simply selling it, albeit in different terms. They don't have to be sending them the raw data for it to be selling. The information they glean from your data is enough. All you have to think about is Google and Facebook's business models. How do they make their money? That's all you need to know. Android users are paying top dollar for their data and privacy to be mishandled, that's a fact. Just go over the instances of Google complying to law enforcement without any context, as in the story above, compared to Apple's ongoing fight on behalf of the user.

As to your other point, there are apps that have demonstrated privacy issues, regardless if they were on either Google or Apple platforms. Flagrant ones are removed, but the nature of these stores doesn't necessarily reflect on business practices or stances on privacy/data. If a driver uses a car for intents or acts other than driving safely on the road, I don't believe car manufacturers should be implicated. In any case, what I am distinguishing is not these third party apps you mentioned, but the collection and usage of your device by the operating system and their services-- that is, Google's collection patterns. That is the difference, as informed by their business model.

If you use Android or any Google product or services, go to myactivity.google.com to get a taste of what is being collected and used. If you use Maps, go to your Timeline and see how you have been logged by default. This data is being fed into their services as you can see by traffic reports, store visits, wait times, etc. The same data can wrongly implicate folks like the cyclist in the story above. You won't hear of this happening with Apple giving away your information like that.

[marciero]

If they are informing these advertisers of your device usage patterns and geolocation information, that is simply selling it, albeit in different terms. They don't have to be sending them the raw data for it to be selling. The information they glean from your data is enough. All you have to think about is Google and Facebook's business models. How do they make their money? That's all you need to know. Android users are paying top dollar for their data and privacy to be mishandled, that's a fact. Just go over the instances of Google complying to law enforcement without any context, as in the story above, compared to Apple's ongoing fight on behalf of the user.


As to your other point, there are apps that have demonstrated privacy issues, regardless if they were on either Google or Apple platforms. Flagrant ones are removed, but the nature of these stores doesn't necessarily reflect on business practices or stances on privacy/data. If a driver uses a car for intents or acts other than driving safely on the road, I don't believe car manufacturers should be implicated. In any case, what I am distinguishing is not these third party apps you mentioned, but the collection and usage of your device by the operating system and their services-- that is, Google's collection patterns. That is the difference, as informed by their business model.

If you use Android or any Google product or services, go to myactivity.google.com to get a taste of what is being collected and used. If you use Maps, go to your Timeline and see how you have been logged by default. This data is being fed into their services as you can see by traffic reports, store visits, wait times, etc. The same data can wrongly implicate folks like the cyclist in the story above. You won't hear of this happening with Apple giving away your information like that.

What I am referring to with FB is not equivalent to selling data. It does not involve giving advertisers any information at all-meta or otherwise-but rather, simply delivering click-throughs, purchases, even foot traffic at brick and mortars. FB business model is based on maximizing your time on platform and incentivizing, rewarding, and ultimately controlling certain behaviors. I'm not saying that is better than selling your data, just different than commodifying, packaging, selling data and meta data like sub-prime mortgages, to anyone willing to pay, for any use imaginable, and many not imaginable.

Most of what I've read does seem to focus on the FBs and Googles, and so point taken that Apple seems to be fundamentally different in terms of business model. Apple is different in that it sells actual stuff. They also have taken a public stance on privacy that is part of their branding now.

[Spdntrxi]

Apple has got you all fooled.... go ahead live with you head in the sand. Apple is the enabler, they may appear to flexing privacy muscle but look into the details and they are not. It's good PR for Apple I'll admit that. It's all I can say. ( as I type away on my MacBook Air.)

[peanutgallery]

Apple, like so many other tech companies has just figured out a different way to monetize personal data. Without a device platform to glean data from us and project stuff back at us...all the app companies would be useless

Just because of their imagery in ads and what not, it doesn't make them angels fighting for the privacy rights of the common citizen. It's all about the sell to their stockholders and consumers. We are just a widget in their business plan

If you use any device or app, your data is being monetized. Wonder when they have to start paying us:)

[Spdntrxi]

Apple, like so many other tech companies has just figured out a different way to monetize personal data. Without a device platform to glean data from us and project stuff back at us...all the app companies would be useless

Just because of their imagery in ads and what not, it doesn't make them angels fighting for the privacy rights of the common citizen. It's all about the sell to their stockholders and consumers. We are just a widget in their business plan

If you use any device or app, your data is being monetized. Wonder when they have to start paying us:)

apples safari's default search engine aint google for nothing :banana:

[marciero]

Apple, like so many other tech companies has just figured out a different way to monetize personal data. Without a device platform to glean data from us and project stuff back at us...all the app companies would be useless

Just because of their imagery in ads and what not, it doesn't make them angels fighting for the privacy rights of the common citizen. It's all about the sell to their stockholders and consumers. We are just a widget in their business plan

If you use any device or app, your data is being monetized. Wonder when they have to start paying us:)

Absolutely. To say these companies have different business models is not to say that they are not all practicing surveillance capitalism in myriad ways and to various degrees.

[vincenz]

Absolutely. To say these companies have different business models is not to say that they are not all practicing surveillance capitalism in myriad ways and to various degrees.


Don’t forget your tin foil hat.. in any case, actions speak louder than words. Like I said, all you have to understand is how these businesses keep the lights on. Until the smoke blowers above you demonstrate anything concrete, the record will continue setting itself anyhow.

[peanutgallery]

Apple products are data gathering devices by default. Apple is in on it just like the rest of them. Don't get sucked in by the pretty ads

Don’t forget your tin foil hat.. in any case, actions speak louder than words. Like I said, all you have to understand is how these businesses keep the lights on. Until the smoke blowers above you demonstrate anything concrete, the record will continue setting itself anyhow.

[nortx-Dave]

"Predictive Analytics"

Something sinister - at least to my ears, with that 2 word phrase. But I don't own a smartphone, so what do I know?

[NHAero]

I'd appreciate a practical take on this.

I bought a used Wahoo Elemnt here a few months ago, and have been enjoying recording all my rides, in service of my 10 mile/day average goal for 2020. I used to used my iPad Mini but I never took the time to record my MTB rides, errands, commuting, etc. - now I'm getting all of my miles.

The Elemnt uploads to RidewithGPS.

1- Am I in the same situation as the young man in the news story - law enforcement has access to all my rides? If yes, is it a Wahoo issue or a RWGPS issue?
2- Can I stop using RWGPS, and still use the Elemnt, without a privacy issue?
3 - If yes to (2), is there a way I can export the ride info into an Excel spreadsheet so I still have the data?

Thanks so much!

[HenryA]

I'd appreciate a practical take on this.

I bought a used Wahoo Elemnt here a few months ago, and have been enjoying recording all my rides, in service of my 10 mile/day average goal for 2020. I used to used my iPad Mini but I never took the time to record my MTB rides, errands, commuting, etc. - now I'm getting all of my miles.

The Elemnt uploads to RidewithGPS.

1- Am I in the same situation as the young man in the news story - law enforcement has access to all my rides? If yes, is it a Wahoo issue or a RWGPS issue?
2- Can I stop using RWGPS, and still use the Elemnt, without a privacy issue?
3 - If yes to (2), is there a way I can export the ride info into an Excel spreadsheet so I still have the data?

Thanks so much!

The geo fence warrant is of undetermined legality. Case law will develop over the near future I suspect. Its a soon to be huge topic in criminal law circles. The Supreme Court has recently held that acquiring too much of someones location data is unlawful.

1. Yes, you could be in the same situation. Any of us could.

2. I doubt anyone can assure privacy when using any internet connected device or app.

3. I used to write my rides down on a calendar. It was pretty secure.