Disappointed in UGA jersey...size issues...

[bulliedawg]

The graphics are outstanding, but I don't understand cycling jersey sizing. I ordered an XL, based on other XL jerseys that fit, and the durn thing is way too small.

I think that some of the bigger boys (and at 5-11, 180 I consider myself average really) need to pool our money and start a company that makes cycling clothing for people with shoulders. As it stands, sizing is too skewed to the chicken chested and pipe-cleaner armed contingent, and it pisses me off.

[Roy E. Munson]

Bullidawg,

I hate to break the news to you, but this is cycling, and cyclists are generally on the slimmer side. Now I would assume any company making cycling clothing would probably market and manufacture their clothes for cyclists.

I find the funniest term in cycling is "American Fit" when used to describe clothes. It's just the pc term for fat, or out of shape. :p

[Sandy]

I don't think that bulliedog is fat or out of shape. I am overweight, but not out of shape. Some of the small cycling jerseys wouldn't fit a 3-4 pound chihuahua.

Coy Roy, bet you didn't know how to spell chihuahua did you?

Saluki Sandy

[Roy E. Munson]

No, I honestly never knew how to spell chewowoah, but unless my German Shepard ate one and I had to replace it, I would never need to!

I never said bulliedawg is fat or out of shape, read the post again. 5'11", 180 is pretty healthy, in my books. I don't have any problems getting cycling gear to fit, and I'm not European. It's not supposed to fit like a pair of pajama's, it's supposed to be snug and streamlined.
I do agree a lot of cycling jerseys are a bit on the microscopic side, but the term "American fit" is an insult to Americans.

[bostondrunk]

what about french fit?
Assos and Nalini run a little small compared to other companies from what I've seen..

[bulliedawg]

Bullidawg,

I hate to break the news to you, but this is cycling, and cyclists are generally on the slimmer side. :p

Roy:

I read your post with a wink and smile...but I disagree with the premise. How come my running clothes always fit as advertised? Maybe it is the European fit thing that isn't emphasized in runnning.

The problem is body type, not fitness. I'm around plenty of college football players -- skill players in the 5-11, 180 to 190 range -- without an ounce of fat on them. They could pound us all into sand. But none of this stuff would fit them, either. I think it's time to change the mindset.

[TmcDet]

Lets see there is club fit, pro fit, American fit, European fit, etc........most of the time when you see clothing on the internet it doesn't even tell ya what fit it is, no wonder people have so much trouble getting shirts that fit. I know for me my size runs any where from a large to a XXXL.

[dbrk]

French fit jerseys are, of course, long in the seat tube but relatively short in comparison with respect to the top tube. Wiring for lighting is integrated into the tubes and there are bag support carriers brazed on the front. A centerpull guide is included on the rear seat cluster. I wear my wool jerseys in this fashion when I am not wearing some nasty, clammy, sticky, plastic jersey that stinks like freshly plowed and fertilized cabbage fields as soon as you put it on.

I am neither fat nor particularly unfit and I find most Euro sizing just silly. I think it's because Euros don't really play upper body sports as kids, not just that Americans eat too much (which is likely true as well). That's long been my own lame explanation as to why Euro sized jerseys fit so poorly on not-so-fat me.

Editorial comment: sometimes Munson and bostondrunk sound funny and very tongue in cheek, sometimes just mean, even obnoxious. This is either a feature of the peculiarities of the Internet or that I am MrRogers reborn.

dbrk

[Roy E. Munson]

Bulliedawg,

Football players spend a fair amount of time in the gym, cyclist's don't. They have broader shoulders and wider backs, bigger arms, etc - even the skill players. That's why none of this stuff would fit them. And if a football player could pound you into the sand, and I assume you mean on a bike and not on the street corner, then I don't think you're riding near often or hard enough.

[Roy E. Munson]

dbrk -

Never intentionally obnoxious or mean. It's tough relaying dissenting opinions across the internet without coming across that way.....and I just can't deal with those icons!! :D

[Andreu]

I think Mr Munson has hit the nail on the head with the term "healthy". 180 at nearly 6foot is healthy, normal, fit etc....
but alot of racing cyclists are "skinny" or "light" builds...i.e. not necessarily healthy. My guess is that companies make clothes aimed at these pencil-necked rakes. As an aside, I have a friend of a friend who is an elite cyclist (basically 10 stone, 6ft in stocking feet, resting pulse rate of 40 etc etc)...he was admitted to hospital in England for something and they advised him that he was actually clinically ill, without first asking some basic questions about his lifestyle.
Also, cultural definitions of what we consider thin, normal and fat are to be considered. I spent some time in Missouri where people, in my opinion, were generally bigger...bigger build, taller plus there is a tendency to be overweight compared with the European "standard". Of course, I turned up looking like I couldn´t fight my way out of a wet paper bag and people thought I was unhealthy and underweight. (fed alot of all-you-can-eat for $5 buffets and grits etc....didn´t work).
I think sometimes some honesty with ourselves and/or standardization with sizings would help. Some gross (no pun intended) generalisations have been made here which, I hope, you will forgive me for making.
A

[Climb01742]

spend anytime in a gym and one thing is pretty apparent--most guys spend most of their lifting time for their upper bodies. can't count the number of times i've seen guys with huge upper bodies and chicken legs. reason? maybe the beach thing. maybe most sports in america require more upper body strength, vs world sports (soccer and cycling) which require leg strength, speed. maybe also gyms in europe, by and large, are pretty primitive compared to u.s. gyms, and fewer of them.

[bulliedawg]

Bulliedawg,

Football players spend a fair amount of time in the gym, cyclist's don't. They have broader shoulders and wider backs, bigger arms, etc - even the skill players. That's why none of this stuff would fit them. And if a football player could pound you into the sand, and I assume you mean on a bike and not on the street corner, then I don't think you're riding near often or hard enough.

I do mean on the street corner and not the bike, though these young men are such great athletes that I think the race would be closer than you think, even against someone of your prodigious ability.

I happen to be one those who spends some time lifting weights. Not a lot of time, but some time. I think it's important to have body balance, and that's what I strive for.

You can blather all you want about how cyclists have similarly slight body types, but I see plenty of people who are wearing XL jerseys, and who normally wear M or L shirts. There are plenty of them on this board, in fact. Also, I saw the procession of pros at the Tour De Georgia when they walked by to sign in, and they all have VERY different bodies. I could not believe the size of Mario, for example. He could be a free safety! I would bet you that he has to size upwards just the way I do.

I think the cycling world needs to catch up with the real world. And it wouldn't be the first time I thought that.

[Roy E. Munson]

A free safety? Then that would make Jonas Carney an offensive lineman!!
I actually came from a weight lifting background, but I can get into normal sized cycling clothes with no problem, different brands I may need differing sizes.
Why should the cycling world change? To suit people who cycle "part time" as opposed to those who cycle more "full-time"?

[JohnS]

Shouldn't that be the correct term since larger cyclists all refer to themselves as "Clydesdales"? :D

[mtflycaster]

I also have seen significant size differences across different brands. Me thinks that is the key issue. Lack of consistency in Euro sizing, not the fact that Euro sizes run small.

[bulliedawg]

Why should the cycling world change? To suit people who cycle "part time" as opposed to those who cycle more "full-time"?

Exactly! The part-timers outnumber the full-timers by at least 10 to 1. That's what I mean by the cycling world becoming part of the real world.

You seem to be getting stuck on the same point, which is that I could fit into this jersey as it's advertised size if I would just ride more. That's bull. I could ride 300 miles a week, and the jersey would still be an actual medium advertised as a XL.

[dbrk]

Someone correct me but I think it's physics: if the body on the bike weighs less it can take advantage of a weight to strength ratio. The obvious thing that cyclists need less of is upper body weight and strength in comparison to what's pedalling. When you hear about the food and diets that pro riders must endure, it is nothing short of amazing. Of course, they can pour in calories to a certain extent because it is their job to burn them at prodigious rates, but they still very much watch what they eat (this from hanging around more than a few who are on the program).

I would love to be about 140lbs on the bike and once upon a time I was. That was pretty skinny on a large frame of just less than 5'10". But now at 46 years and 150lbs, those last ten pounds are nothing short of sheer agony and maintaining that weight is even more challenging than arriving at it. (Of course a trip back to India and a few weeks drinking the water before eating the medicine would pretty much take care of that weight issue...). I have tried and it's not worth it. I ride for fun, for love, not for pain or accomplishments. Fun is my accomplishment; fitness is a happy by-product. I would never exercise if it weren't really a joy to do it (meaning that some sorts/degrees of pain are joyful, right?)

What is the "cycling world" that Roy refers to? The pros? Why should they be the model for anything?!! I love pro cycling but I have no wannabe ideas whatsoever. The Euros I see in Italy look like sausages in their tight kit and I have never seen a casual rider with a pump or a spare, it being apparently too tourista for them. I know for a fact that Merlins with pump pegs were sent back to the US from Europe because such a practical accoutrement was considered unmanly and inappropriate for a fast bike. I am happily unmanly and don't fancy looking like a sausage either. To each his own.

dbrk

[Andreu]

"...they walked by to sign in, and they all have VERY different bodies"

course they do but they have body mass indexes at the low end of the 20´s. Sprinters tend to be on the "bigger" side because they need to pack a punch. But the average build/weight is on the low side. You just don´t get "big" pro-cyclists because it costs alot of energy to climb with excess weight (muscle or fat).
We are comparing apples and pears. Lets not fool ourselves here the vast majority of cyclists at the higher end of the ability range can fit into these clothes whether they are from China, US or Italy. Joe Average cyclist probably just needs to size up.
A

[PanTerra]

I find that most of the jerseys are made for them thar little Italian fellers. :beer:

[bulliedawg]

I find that most of the jerseys are made for them thar little Italian fellers. :beer:

My mother was born in Sicily. My father's family is from Costanza. It don't get any more I-talian than that. And I ain't no little feller :)

[JohnS]

It seems like the problem manifests itself only in the larger sizes. I'm 5'8" and 158lbs and I regularly wear a medium jersey. I like my tshirts looser so those are usually Large.

[Roy E. Munson]

How about this:

If you want "American fit" clothes, buy them from a manufacturer that makes "American fit" clothes. Buying European brands and expecting American sizing is just plain ridiculous. Read the sizing charts before you order. Certainly you're not thinking that because you wear a Med dress shirt that you wear a Med cycling jersey.

And I am by no means talking the pro's. I am guessing the disjoin in this thread is that the demographic's of this forum are more to the "American fit" riders. I don't know any American riders in the Cat 1-2 3-4 groups that can't get clothes to fit.

Man, I am having a hard time saving my name here this morning :banana: :banana:

[Andreu]

Don´t worry Mr Munson....your doing a great job...I managed to insult a whole state and no one has pulled me up yet!
A :beer:

[JohnS]

That's because most people in that state can't read! :) That's why it's called the 'show me" state...because they can't read it for themselves! Just kidding!!!

[bulliedawg]

How about this:

If you want "American fit" clothes, buy them from a manufacturer that makes "American fit" clothes. Buying European brands and expecting American sizing is just plain ridiculous. Read the sizing charts before you order. Certainly you're not thinking that because you wear a Med dress shirt that you wear a Med cycling jersey.

And I am by no means talking the pro's. I am guessing the disjoin in this thread is that the demographic's of this forum are more to the "American fit" riders. I don't know any American riders in the Cat 1-2 3-4 groups that can't get clothes to fit.

Man, I am having a hard time saving my name here this morning :banana: :banana:

I don't know who manufactured the jersey, but if you're selling in America, shouldn't the durn thing be "American fit"? There are plenty of cars being manufactured in Europe and Japan and being sold in America. Last time I checked the steering wheel in those autos was still on the left side.

Get it?

ps. I know plenty of racers in those categories that have to size up.
pps. I think you, Mr. Munson, are a "size-ist." In fact, the whole durn cycling industry is made up of "size-ists." I may file a federal lawsuit!

[bostondrunk]

what the hell does 'durn' mean???
<burp> lets have a beer or two....then try to squeeze into a size small assos jersey....


:beer:

[Matt Barkley]

"American" clothing sizes have been changing over the years. "Bigification" of America is obvious, food portions, SUVs, housing developments - but not so obvious in our clothing sizing. T-Shirts and Jeans are not only offered in larger sizes ( the double and triple XLs - bigger waists and fuller looser cuts) but each size is getting larger. My weight (and build) has stayed consistent over the years but the size clothing I wear is dropping - because the manufacturers are catering to a fattening America AND are using the ever more refined tools of marketing to make us feel big (in a good healthy way, of course) - XL is the norm now. If you are not an XL you must be frail and maybe sick, not big and strong! You need to be "Super-sized."

Has anyone seen this movie yet, Supersize Me? :)

[PanTerra]

My mother was born in Sicily. My father's family is from Costanza. It don't get any more I-talian than that. And I ain't no little feller :)

ok, how about French. But then I still consider anyone sub 6'/200# a little feller. :)

[Ozz]

"...You just don´t get "big" pro-cyclists because it costs alot of energy to climb with excess weight (muscle or fat).

This is why Miguel Indurain is my hero!

6' 2" @ 170lbs (when he was racing).

He was a big guy for a cyclist, but pretty average in the general population. Maybe taller than average...

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . many jerseys, including quite a few on eBay.

European sizes seems to assume a taller, leaner physique. I wear a large in most European makers, but a medium in American sized stuff. In Nalini, for example, shoulders are perfect on a size 5, but then the length is too long. Size 4 is perfect length, but shoulders are very snug . . .

Verge and Voler seem to strike a nice balance between European and American. Cannondale is the hardest to judge on eBay because they make BOTH size systems, but you often cannot tell from pictures which it is. Since I know reliably what size I wear in different brands, I tend to watch for those brands when cruising eBay. If I'm in a store with lots of, say, Castelli jerseys, then I try one on as a size reference.

I'm sure the manufacturers have solid reason having to do with their target markets for sizing like they do. We had a story in our paper about 6 months ago about some guy who was starting a protest group because he had been wearing the same size and style Levi's for like 20 years, then Levi's widened the butt in the pants a little. Like they are making these just for him . . .

BBDave

[dirtdigger88]

Don´t worry Mr Munson....your doing a great job...I managed to insult a whole state and no one has pulled me up yet!
A :beer:


Hey watch the Missouri digs!! I don't think I look like a sausage in my jerseys :no: I will admit though, you do see many riders out there that just need to admit that they wear an XL. I wear mostly PI gear because I find it to be cut larger in the shoulders and arms. My gut (or lack there of) isn't really ever a problem :banana:

Jason

[jeffg]

I find I fit perfectly into castelli large jerseys and medium bibs. Santini do fit me fine as well. Voler jerseys, on the other hand, are a bit too roomy for me in medium. It's like all clothes. You got to find the right cut.

My theory: Do you fit euro-style suit jackets? Then the jerseys are no problem. Are you more of a Brooks Brothers (i.e. square) build? Then it's tough to find a euro jersey that will fit.