pro's doing pro stuff...

[azrider]

You know you're a pro when you can grab snack while forearms are resting on bars, in the middle of a paceline, during a race, with gloves on while it's cold and raining.

I'm always amazed at what these athletes can do while riding bike 30 MPH

[Andy sti]

Styby is so good

[Black Dog]

And so many more have done similar things and brought down the pack! One bump, pothole or crack and bye bye.

[benb]

And so many more have done similar things and brought down the pack! One bump, pothole or crack and bye bye.

Yep.. they crash more than most of us too. They take more chances cause their paycheck depends on it.

I could attempt to do this.. but I don't cause even getting dropped is better than needlessly causing a crash.

[azrider]

Styby is so good

Right?? Dude is such a stud. I became a fan forever when he pulled his teeth out halfway through Flanders few years back

https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/04/THOMAS-Geraint005Ap.jpg

[Ti Designs]

Expect more of your own handling skills.

Listen to any conversation about local group rides and everybody else is the bad rider. Last I checked, you can't improve their skills, only your own. So ignore how good or bad everyone else is, assume you suck the worst out of the whole group, and really learn how to ride. If everybody would do that, cycling would be so good...

I run contact drills with the riders I coach. I bring them out to a grass field and have them play bumper bikes for 45 minutes. I also teach my riders to eat on the bike (as simple as that sounds, most people don't). Next time they get extra credit if they can eat while banging into their teammates...

[benb]

This is like the prisoner's dilemma though.. (If I'm remembering the correct one).

It doesn't really matter how much you improve your own skills if the peloton(s) you're riding in are still going to be full of other dangerous riders.

This is still mostly just stupidity at anything other than a pro level where those guys have to do it to keep earning a living.

We sit there and rail about drivers eating and doing other distracted things while driving. Eating while in a fast tight pack is just as dumb, just theoretically lower consequences.

Also hilarious the rider in question has no teeth left. How did that happen?

[prototoast]

Absolutely the pros have much better bike handling ability than I do. Absolutely, the pros take more risks and crash more than I do. Sometimes I wonder how often there would be crashes if the pros rode as cautiously as I do. But there's no doubt that with my handling ability, I would never be able to do what they do.

[benb]

I still love some of the books that talk about how much it sucks to be a pro cyclist too.

Seems to be a near universal thing in pro cyclist memoirs other than the ones that are pure fantasy like Lance Armstrong's first book where he acts like it was all sunshine and roses except for the cancer part.

If Styby complains he doesn't want to do this cause he's got no teeth left and doesn't want to get hurt again it wouldn't go too well for him.

[Mark McM]

This is like the prisoner's dilemma though.. (If I'm remembering the correct one).

You must be thinking about another one. The Prisoner's Dilemma (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma) is a games theory example of why two people might not cooperate, even if it appears it would be in their best interest to do so.


It doesn't really matter how much you improve your own skills if the peloton(s) you're riding in are still going to be full of other dangerous riders.

Au contraire; improving your skills isn't just about not doing something that might cause a crash, but it can also be about avoiding others who are crashing.


This is still mostly just stupidity at anything other than a pro level where those guys have to do it to keep earning a living.

We sit there and rail about drivers eating and doing other distracted things while driving. Eating while in a fast tight pack is just as dumb, just theoretically lower consequences.

I think we had a recent discussion about tolerance to risk, in particular in regard to racing, whether at a professional or amateur level. There are many races which are long enough that for best performance you need to eat something. While you can certainly choose whether or not you want to participate in these races, if you do choose to participate, it would behoove you to learn how to eat while in a tight pack.

When I did longer races at the cat. 4 level, I had the choice to either bring all the food and water I would need (which could include 3 or 4 water bottles), or to try to get extra bottles in the feed zone. My choice was to bring all the bottles I would need with me: I was comfortable and skilled enough to swap bottles around between cages and rear pockets while riding in a pack; however, I had seen too much chaos in cat. 4 feedzones to trust my luck trying to get extra bottles there. (And I was also perfectly fine opening food packets and eating in tight packs as well).

[Gummee]

Right?? Dude is such a stud. I became a fan forever when he pulled his teeth out halfway through Flanders few years back

https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/04/THOMAS-Geraint005Ap.jpg

Meh. I've been doing that for 30 years now.

I usually start races without the teeth in to make sure I don't have to take them out later

M

[benb]

I'm mostly OK eating in a pack too and have done so/did so when racing and eat while riding without stopping pretty much every time I ride > 1 hour, but mostly that's on my own. If I need to do so now I will usually go to the back of a pack and give myself room.

It is mostly about risk tolerance though. It's just when you're racing even Cat 4 you have an inflated idea about the importance of the race and you make silly risk/reward judgements sometimes.

If I had won every amateur race I ever entered my winnings might have been worth what I made in half a day at my job at the time. Even then I was seriously questioning whether it was worth it to take additional risks eating in the pack in longer races.

It's dumb to try to rationalize anything in bike races. If you think at all rationally about them they're incredibly dumb things to do unless you're the team leader in the pro tour and get endorsements + win classic or grand tours. Almost any job that can be called a "career" has better returns than being a pro cyclist.

There's never really any way you can rationally justify eating on the road in a pack on a group ride where the course isn't even closed.

Also there is no amount of skill that's going to stop you from crashing if you're on the tops 6" off the wheel in front of you and you're eating and not covering either brake and a major crash happens right in front of you. Even if you're the best bike handler in the world. You're probably going down in that case even if you're already covering the brakes.

[Black Dog]

Expect more of your own handling skills.

Listen to any conversation about local group rides and everybody else is the bad rider. Last I checked, you can't improve their skills, only your own. So ignore how good or bad everyone else is, assume you suck the worst out of the whole group, and really learn how to ride. If everybody would do that, cycling would be so good...

I run contact drills with the riders I coach. I bring them out to a grass field and have them play bumper bikes for 45 minutes. I also teach my riders to eat on the bike (as simple as that sounds, most people don't). Next time they get extra credit if they can eat while banging into their teammates...

This is some good advice. I have been riding for over 30 years and have raced on a few continents. I never assume that I have learned enough or am good enough. At the start of every season I focus on basic handling, cornering, and yes Ed, even my pedalling technique. You know, the basics, the foundation. I am still learning and improving. It's not an exaggeration to say that my abilities may be the difference between a nice ride home or a ride to a hospital for me or those around me. Some of these skills need to become 100% responsive, there is simply no time to think you way out of a split second situation. Cycling is so deceptively easy seeming and there is really no longer any formal or informal coaching on skills. I can ride from A to B and I am strong therefore I am skilled...:rolleyes:

[Mark McM]

I'm mostly OK eating in a pack too and have done so/did so when racing and eat while riding without stopping pretty much every time I ride > 1 hour, but mostly that's on my own. If I need to do so now I will usually go to the back of a pack and give myself room.

It is mostly about risk tolerance though. It's just when you're racing even Cat 4 you have an inflated idea about the importance of the race and you make silly risk/reward judgements sometimes.

If I had won every amateur race I ever entered my winnings might have been worth what I made in half a day at my job at the time. Even then I was seriously questioning whether it was worth it to take additional risks eating in the pack in longer races.

It's dumb to try to rationalize anything in bike races. If you think at all rationally about them they're incredibly dumb things to do unless you're the team leader in the pro tour and get endorsements + win classic or grand tours. Almost any job that can be called a "career" has better returns than being a pro cyclist.

There's never really any way you can rationally justify eating on the road in a pack on a group ride where the course isn't even closed.

Also there is no amount of skill that's going to stop you from crashing if you're on the tops 6" off the wheel in front of you and you're eating and not covering either brake and a major crash happens right in front of you. Even if you're the best bike handler in the world. You're probably going down in that case even if you're already covering the brakes.

Science doesn't bear out these ideas. Young men tend to be greater risk takers. Does this mean that they are just stupid? No. Many studies have shown that men who take risks are more attractive to women, thus increasing their ability to find mates. In other words, risky behavior is a well proven and successful strategy.

[ultraman6970]

How old are you?

Meh. I've been doing that for 30 years now.

I usually start races without the teeth in to make sure I don't have to take them out later

M

[9tubes]

I was never a grand tour pro but back in the day that was considered very bad form.

This is how a dozen people go down and some poor guy loses his teeth.

It's easy, jut wait until you've rotated to the back of the paceline. Or pull out of the line and go to the back. Or if it's a large peloton then pull out to the side and eat. Or learn to eat with one hand and keep the other one on the hood to cover the brake.

[Black Dog]

Science doesn't bear out these ideas. Young men tend to be greater risk takers. Does this mean that they are just stupid? No. Many studies have shown that men who take risks are more attractive to women, thus increasing their ability to find mates. In other words, risky behavior is a well proven and successful strategy.

Yes it sort of does. There are more males born than females and by age 18 the ratio flips and there are more females alive than males. Why? "Accidental deaths" among males. The "hey hold my beer" kind of deaths. The parts of the brain that allow good executive function are not as well developed in young males compared to females and do not reach full development until the early to mid 20's. It's not just about poor risk assessment, it is also about risk blindness because of a brake in the causal link between action and consequence. Those that survive will grow out of this developmental stupidity (mostly... ;) ). This is not just an artifact of sexual selection in humans. Risk taking is only one of many signals that females are evaluating during mate choice. Now back to my chain saw juggling routine that I am sure the ladies will love!

[Mark McM]

Yes it sort of does. There are more males born than females and by age 18 the ratio flips and there are more females alive than males. Why? "Accidental deaths" among males. The "hey hold my beer" kind of deaths. The parts of the brain that allow good executive function are not as well developed in young males compared to females and do not reach full development until the early to mid 20's. It's not just about poor risk assessment, it is also about risk blindness because of a brake in the causal link between action and consequence. Those that survive will grow out of this developmental stupidity (mostly... ;) ). This is not just an artifact of sexual selection in humans. Risk taking is only one of many signals that females are evaluating during mate choice. Now back to my chain saw juggling routine that I am sure the ladies will love!

Hey, if all young men thought that way, they'd never volunteer to go off and fight in wars! What kind of mixed up topsy-turvy world would that be!?!?

[Black Dog]

Hey, if all young men thought that way, they'd never volunteer to go off and fight in wars! What kind of mixed up topsy-turvy world would that be!?!?

So true...LOL We would be burdened with peace and the old fools that send them there would have to hide behind the lives of someone else.

Besides, all those willing men waiting to hold their buddy's beer and never getting the chance.

[Clancy]

Hey, if all young men thought that way, they'd never volunteer to go off and fight in wars! What kind of mixed up topsy-turvy world would that be!?!?


That sounds like a pretty good thing! A world I’d like!

[Mikej]

The most pro of them all.

[chiasticon]

Meh. I've been doing that for 30 years now.

I usually start races without the teeth in to make sure I don't have to take them out laterit wasn't intentional. his bridge became dislodged and was moving around, so he chose to remove it. wasn't happy about it either.

[charliedid]

The most pro of them all.

Hw should have been sponsored by Coca-Cola

[Tickdoc]

It's the removal or the placement of a long sleeved rain cape that always gets me. I'll do it with a vest, or arm warmers, but not a jacket or leg warmers. That thin flappy fabric especially when it is wet makes me think of someone getting out of a straightjacket.:eek:

[benb]

Science doesn't bear out these ideas. Young men tend to be greater risk takers. Does this mean that they are just stupid? No. Many studies have shown that men who take risks are more attractive to women, thus increasing their ability to find mates. In other words, risky behavior is a well proven and successful strategy.

On a general level you're right but more specifically in the US and more specifically with cycling it's kind of hard to argue that participating in cycling racing makes young men attractive to females since there's almost a stigma against cycling/cyclists.

[GregL]

On a general level you're right but more specifically in the US and more specifically with cycling it's kind of hard to argue that participating in cycling racing makes young men attractive to females since there's almost a stigma against cycling/cyclists.
Or to paraphrase my 20 year-old daughter, "Yuck, they look like stick figures on bikes!"

Greg

[benb]

Or to paraphrase my 20 year-old daughter, "Yuck, they look like stick figures on bikes!"

Greg

Yah the anorexia look is not good for cyclists.

[martl]

can we not get carried away on that safety ****. People riding at pro level have a few 100k km under their belt in pack riding condtions, starting at a very young age. They do stuff that is a lot crazier than eating a powerbar. Jeesh...

[FlashUNC]

Whole lotta things happen in a pro peloton that shouldn't happen anywhere else. When there's money and a livelihood on a line there's a level of skill, attention and frankly risk these guys take that the rest of us shouldn't aspire to.

[weisan]

After you watch this, you won't look at the "pros" the same way you did before.

https://youtu.be/MGpNRWpKSOQ

[Mark McM]

Whole lotta things happen in a pro peloton that shouldn't happen anywhere else. When there's money and a livelihood on a line there's a level of skill, attention and frankly risk these guys take that the rest of us shouldn't aspire to.

Let's take a look at this from another angle. A Pro racer can choose to race conservatively (in regard to safety), which would sacrifice chances for good results and chance to get ahead in their profession. But if they are a good athlete, they might still be able to make a (albeit more modest) living in the sport. However, if they take risks and end up on the wrong side of luck, they could end up losing their career entirely.

On the other hand, an amateur racer doesn't rely on cycling to make a living (in fact, it might be a net drain on their resources). They also may not be risking as much of their livelihood in case of a crash. If a Pro and an amateur had identical injuries, it might be career ending for the Pro, but have only a minor affect on the amateur's ability to earn a living.

One line or reasoning might state that while Pros have more to gain by taking risks in a race, they also have more to lose. So does it really make sense for Pros to take more risk?

[GregL]

Whole lotta things happen in a pro peloton that shouldn't happen anywhere else.
And when us amateurs try to emulate the pros during our rides/races, bad things happen. My favorite is a stronger rider giving someone a push on a climb. I've seen it both in an amateur race and in a charity ride. In both cases, crashes ensued. The crash in the race brought down several riders and caused broken bones and bikes. Just glad I saw the pushes early enough that I had enough time to put room between myself and the offending riders.

Greg

[azrider]

can we not get carried away on that safety ****. People riding at pro level have a few 100k km under their belt in pack riding condtions, starting at a very young age. They do stuff that is a lot crazier than eating a powerbar. Jeesh...

+1000

Thank you!! Sheesh is right. This thread took a very unexpected turn.

I am in awe of Pro cyclists.....the lifestyle, the miles, their abilities, and YES the things like unwrapping a bar to eat while in a race is just a "pro" thing to do......lighten the frig up people.

Please keep your smarmy "well that's not safe" comments to yourselves.

i need more coffee.........

[benb]

One line or reasoning might state that while Pros have more to gain by taking risks in a race, they also have more to lose. So does it really make sense for Pros to take more risk?

No I think this logic is flawed.

Pros come in two varieties:

- The absolute tip top of the spear in the Pro Tour. They actually make enough for it to matter. The rest of the team works to reduce their risk.

- All the other pros who don't really seem to even make a living wage and are treated as 100% expendable.

For all of us who make a lot more than a living wage if our employment could be endangered by needless severe injuries doing amateur bike racing we have more to lose.

If you're a middling pro and you lose your $25k/yr pro ride it's easy to switch to something else that makes more than that.

If you make $50k, 100k, $250k, $500k+ per year as a professional and getting a head injury in a race could endanger your career it will be much harder to replace that income.

Luckily amateur bike racing doesn't seem to be written out of health care or life insurance policies. In any case for me at least there's no way I was ever lining up in another mass start race once I got married and/or had children. If anyone is a dependent of me USA Cycling mass start races are too irresponsible for me to enter personally.

People need to get past the fantasy that pro cyclists are the same as NFL players, MLB, etc..

[FlashUNC]

So does it really make sense for Pros to take more risk?

Yes. It's how they put food on the table. These are guys that by and large have no other marketable skills, and have another 100 guys behind them in line at conti and developmental teams itching to take their spot. Cycling is not short cheap labor.

So if you're a worker and not a star, absolutely.

[C40_guy]

It's the removal or the placement of a long sleeved rain cape that always gets me. I'll do it with a vest, or arm warmers, but not a jacket or leg warmers. That thin flappy fabric especially when it is wet makes me think of someone getting out of a straightjacket.:eek:

Gotta practice those moves on rollers.

[Mark McM]

No I think this logic is flawed.

Pros come in two varieties:

- The absolute tip top of the spear in the Pro Tour. They actually make enough for it to matter. The rest of the team works to reduce their risk.

- All the other pros who don't really seem to even make a living wage and are treated as 100% expendable.

So, this 2nd group (who are most of the Pros) are taking extra risk, and getting less reward - so why does it make any sense for them to race bikes?


As far as the root of these whole arguments regarding acceptable risk, I think Harry Callahan summed it up best:

https://i.imgflip.com/uhl68.jpg

[tv_vt]

After you watch this, you won't look at the "pros" the same way you did before.

https://youtu.be/MGpNRWpKSOQ

That's pretty amazing.

Definitely 'pros doing pro stuff' in that one.

[martl]

Whole lotta things happen in a pro peloton that shouldn't happen anywhere else. When there's money and a livelihood on a line there's a level of skill, attention and frankly risk these guys take that the rest of us shouldn't aspire to.

Actually, no. Neo pros trying to do crazy stuff, like riding downhill like a madman when there are further climbs up the way to the finish, earn e serious discussion with one of the "capo" s of the peloton. Only one man can win a stage, but 99% need to be in good health to ride another day and to keep the chance of showing their strength to earn getting nominated for the next race, and on the longer term earn a contract for the next season.
No team manager hires a rider that takes stupid risks unless he's superhuman.
If the peloton thought eating a bar was a risk, he would only do it once.

[FlashUNC]

Actually, no. Neo pros trying to do crazy stuff, like riding downhill like a madman when there are further climbs up the way to the finish, earn e serious discussion with one of the "capo" s of the peloton. Only one man can win a stage, but 99% need to be in good health to ride another day and to keep the chance of showing their strength to earn getting nominated for the next race, and on the longer term earn a contract for the next season.
No team manager hires a rider that takes stupid risks unless he's superhuman.
If the peloton thought eating a bar was a risk, he would only do it once.

Wasn't the point I was making, but all fair enough.

No amateur rider should be descending on a top tube on your Saturday morning group ride. Or peeling off a rain cape in the middle of a pack. Or umpteen million other things every single pro can do without much of a second thought. Like that quad stretch you see late in Classics with guys throwing the foot onto the saddle and getting bit of a stretch? Ye Gods that's stupid for non-pros. There's an inherent level of risk in the job that even the stuff they do casually is some stuff no right thinking person should attempt on their local chaingang, is my point.

[Black Dog]

Wasn't the point I was making, but all fair enough.

No amateur rider should be descending on a top tube on your Saturday morning group ride. Or peeling off a rain cape in the middle of a pack. Or umpteen million other things every single pro can do without much of a second thought. Like that quad stretch you see late in Classics with guys throwing the foot onto the saddle and getting bit of a stretch? Ye Gods that's stupid for non-pros. There's an inherent level of risk in the job that even the stuff they do casually is some stuff no right thinking person should attempt on their local chaingang, is my point.

Wisdom.

[Gummee]

And when us amateurs try to emulate the pros during our rides/races, bad things happen. My favorite is a stronger rider giving someone a push on a climb. I've seen it both in an amateur race and in a charity ride. In both cases, crashes ensued. The crash in the race brought down several riders and caused broken bones and bikes. Just glad I saw the pushes early enough that I had enough time to put room between myself and the offending riders.

Greg

I end up pushing people with some frequency. Haven't crashed them or me yet.

...but years of riding and racing Madisons make me a little more skilled than your normal schmo.

It isn't rocket science, but it does take skill

M

[Heisenberg]

I end up pushing people with some frequency. Haven't crashed them or me yet.

...but years of riding and racing Madisons make me a little more skilled than your normal schmo.

It isn't rocket science, but it does take skill

M

this

practice

professionals

armchair bikeriders, doing 5hrs/wk

[Heisenberg]

So, this 2nd group (who are most of the Pros) are taking extra risk, and getting less reward - so why does it make any sense for them to race bikes?


as a formerly semi-successful terribly-paid bike rider

i think you need to understand who professional cyclists are as a cohort.

engage the intuitive side.

[Mark McM]

And when us amateurs try to emulate the pros during our rides/races, bad things happen. My favorite is a stronger rider giving someone a push on a climb. I've seen it both in an amateur race and in a charity ride. In both cases, crashes ensued. The crash in the race brought down several riders and caused broken bones and bikes. Just glad I saw the pushes early enough that I had enough time to put room between myself and the offending riders.

I've never done this in a race (it's against the rules), but I've done it several times on rides, and seen others do it. I've never seen it result in a crash. Maybe if I knew that it was impossible for a mere mortal, I wouldn't have tried.

A lot of the opinions expressed here appear to leave no room for a grey area, and is seems that there is a belief that there are very polarized divisions - some things only Pros are capable of doing, and other things amateurs are incapable of doing (and shouldn't even try). But the real world is far more nuanced than this, and there aren't such sharp divisions.

[FlashUNC]

I've never done this in a race (it's against the rules), but I've done it several times on rides, and seen others do it. I've never seen it result in a crash. Maybe if I knew that it was impossible for a mere mortal, I wouldn't have tried.

A lot of the opinions expressed here appear to leave no room for a grey area, and is seems that there is a belief that there are very polarized divisions - some things only Pros are capable of doing, and other things amateurs are incapable of doing (and shouldn't even try). But the real world is far more nuanced than this, and there aren't such sharp divisions.

That's a wonderful sentiment, but amateurs have to go to work on Monday. You get the leet pro skillz wrong and bad things happen. That's a risk pros accept because again, their job.

Anybody can learn Excel, so let's let the bike pro put together the company financials for the quarter. Anybody can do it right? Surely he can do that on a couple hours a week training. He'll pick up pivot tables in no time. What's the worst that could happen?

[Heisenberg]

That's a wonderful sentiment, but amateurs have to go to work on Monday. You get the leet pro skillz wrong and bad things happen. That's a risk pros accept because again, their job.

Anybody can learn Excel, so let's let the bike pro put together the company financials for the quarter. Anybody can do it right? Surely he can do that on a couple hours a week training. He'll pick up pivot tables in no time. What's the worst that could happen?

shotsfired

let the asshat who's done FT hours to race bikes for years on end cast the first stone.

to make it crystal clear for SCIENCEMANSPLAINERS in the cheapseats (bc ofc):
THIS IS A PROFESSIONAL BIKE RACER'S FULL-TIME JOB. THEY ARE WAY, WAY, WAAAAY BETTER AT DRIVING BIKES THAN YOU WILL EVER BE. EVER. EVEN THE BAD ONES.

it's okay. these asshats have nothing else going for them (literally nothing), and they've given away huge chunks of their lives to be good at what's literally a dead-end profession. take solace in that. and don't try to eat a gel resting on your tops at 50kmh, because i'll slap you.

[Peter P.]

Can we go back to the original photo that sparked this discussion?

We don't know the pace and other conditions in the peloton at the time the photo was taken, therefore we don't know how risky it was for him to be eating at the time.

Also, there's a certain etiquette in the peloton, and certainly in the pro ranks, when it comes to doing things other than racing, such as eating.

Riders will typically eat during safe moments, and not when it's balls out hectic, for instance.

On the other hand, in your typical group ride, the variety of riders is too wide in experience and ability to take some of the risks you might do say, if you were riding with your good buddies.

There's more to these "risks" than meets the eye.

[weisan]

I have only seen it on TV until a "neo-pro" showed up at one of our group rides and "showed us boys how it's done". I captured it on video in my camera. I was amused and ecstatic more than anything else...

https://vimeo.com/245590211

[monkeybanana86]

I have only seen it on TV until a "neo-pro" showed up at one of our group rides and "showed us boys how it's done". I captured it on video in my camera. I was amused and ecstatic more than anything else...

https://vimeo.com/245590211

I thought you were talking about the guy with the banana. Oh wait

[weisan]

I thought you were talking about the guy with the banana. Oh wait

That too. I usually just tossed that damn thing on the side of the road...this guy...no...he folded it down nicely...like he would have done getting up early morning from bed his blanket...then he deftly positioned himself close enough to the side of the road so he could "slam dunk" it where he wants it...

[Hawker]

I thought you were talking about the guy with the banana. Oh wait

HA! Me too. :)

[dziekiel]

The most pro of them all.

Who is this?

[Hawker]

I think it may have been the "other guy" with a banana. ;)

[azrider]

The most pro of them all.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/be/c1/dc/bec1dc9217f222e4d0dfba867086621a.png

Who is this?


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/oeSE3ihP-IxJX8iAsFHHQfgNLdqkBWBocIq4GHpUU2tPfgce83Z0P9uVvG8 e3qxb75merClWAQi31zMFB3DqX5TX1V9aJL519xoLrBQHigOov 77-y97hm-trl07WK84tdwuFL0K5hhQ6R5j2WpnLAuaeSbHQ9v964As

[charliedid]

Who is this?

Dario Cacciatore

[ERK55]

Little Onion.