Which aluminum rim: rim brake, wide (20mm internal) clincher rim

[saab2000]

Title says it.

A set of WI T11 hubs, 28R and 24F are in my possession. Currently they’re laced to some V1 Pacenti SL23 rims but the rear (rim) is badly damaged and they’re out of date in any case.

I’m looking to rebuild and my general opinion is to go with another set of Pacenti, this time in the form of the Forza, which is a wide rim with a rear asymmetrical design.

The other contender is the HED Belgium Plus. It’s not offset but gets high ratings. Boyd rims? Happy with my Boyd pre-built wheels.

I’m curious if the wheel folks have an opinion on the metallurgy or extrusions of these rims.

I’m probably going with aluminum for the reasons of braking and descending. They’re for a bike with rim brakes. The current wheels seem to have a heavier spoke on the drive side.

Other ideas? Looking for wide internal and high quality.

Pro wheel builder dot com has all options.

[one60]

I just had a my WI hubs from the previous generation relaced to Kinlin XR31T. They are a bit heavier than the XR22T but perhaps more aero...additionally the deeper rim should build a stronger wheel. So far they have been great!

[jtbadge]

Here's a rec for the H Plus Son Archetype.
-Stiff enough for low spoke count wheels (I usually come in over 200# and never have to true even my 24/28 spoke sets)
-wide(-ish, by current standards - 23mm external),
-nicely finished, look great on a modern or vintage bike
-half the price of a Belgium, more durable than most rims Pacenti has put out
-My wheelbuilder friends report that the rims are reliably flat/true out of the box, too.

T11 > H Plus Son Archetype is my favorite pairing - the pictured sets with the grey ("hard anodized") rims have T11 hubs.

edit: saw after I started typing that you specified 20mm internal. They're definitely narrower than that, but when I started riding these in like 2015, the wide profile was a revelation.

https://www.bikehubstore.com/H-Plus-Son-Archetype-23mm-Rim-p/archetype.htm

https://www.pedalroom.com/p/rock-lobster-team-al-road-33845_28.jpg

https://www.pedalroom.com/p/thrive-cycles-fillet-brazed-allroad-36885_27.jpg

https://www.pedalroom.com/p/eddy-merckx-mx-leader-29250_30.jpg

https://www.pedalroom.com/p/cannondale-caad10-32766_6.jpg

[robt57]

I forget which Kinlins has same ERD as V1 SL23. But look bikehub store if you wanna keep your spokes on current build.

If you are going all new spokes, H+ Sons Archetypes best lower price offering IMO, HEDs if you wanna spend.

I have SL23 28h still in service. Third rear rebuild from crap/crack holding up now with my washer cfg I used. I had bought 8 of those, huge waste of coin. But I do love the brake performance with the way they are machined. Still have a few 28h V1 on the wall... waiting for the 4th rear to crack, but it hasn't yet in over 2 seasons now.

[AngryScientist]

Easton R90 SL all the way.

likely the best quality alloy rim brake rim out there right now.

i just built up a set and they are probably the nicest quality, flattest, straightest rims out of the box i have used.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F5kCSZk8LBs/XfvCcHc3O8I/AAAAAAAADaA/baedKyE6G14PxI4AFQPcwr0H8UAYu2aiQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1200/IMG_4856.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K_YyK2TlHdQ/XfvCcDKRF6I/AAAAAAAADZ8/ZcgWfXARmTgcMbyByOLXVY-wDQOgg4caQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1200/IMG_4855.jpg

[Clean39T]

Yeah, EA90SL w CX-Rays......these Phil hubs are tanks tho..


.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200226/731b5fae4ab1d79653d42f128e47a1cc.jpg

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[bigbill]

Old Potatoe built me a great set of wheels with DT 511 rims. Hits the sweet spot on my older frames with less clearance. Easy tubeless setup too.

[p nut]

I’d be inclined to go Belgium +. 25mm/21mm internal. $126 at Modernbike.

[robt57]

Kinlin XR26T is the one I mentioned above that IIRC is direct ERD repl same spokes for SL23 V1.


It is 19c which may rule it out I guess.

[GregL]

Kinlin XR26T is the one I mentioned above that IIRC is direct ERD repl same spokes for SL23 V1.

It is 19c which may rule it out I guess.
Second the recommendations for the Kinlins. I’ve built four sets of wheels with XR31T and XR26T rims (off-center rims for the back wheels). 19mm internal width, tubeless compatible, and easy to build with. One set of the XR26T wheels (24H front, 28H rear) are on my gravel race bike. They have held up to rocks, mud, and potholes beyond my expectations.

Greg

[Tony]

Boyd Altamont Lite, 19.86 mm internal, 24 mm external width. Solid, well designed light rim. Boyd's are less expensive than the Easton R90 SL with a 19.5 mm internal width, also a nice rim.

[oldpotatoe]

Title says it.

A set of WI T11 hubs, 28R and 24F are in my possession. Currently they’re laced to some V1 Pacenti SL23 rims but the rear (rim) is badly damaged and they’re out of date in any case.

I’m looking to rebuild and my general opinion is to go with another set of Pacenti, this time in the form of the Forza, which is a wide rim with a rear asymmetrical design.

The other contender is the HED Belgium Plus. It’s not offset but gets high ratings. Boyd rims? Happy with my Boyd pre-built wheels.

I’m curious if the wheel folks have an opinion on the metallurgy or extrusions of these rims.

I’m probably going with aluminum for the reasons of braking and descending. They’re for a bike with rim brakes. The current wheels seem to have a heavier spoke on the drive side.

Other ideas? Looking for wide internal and high quality.

Pro wheel builder dot com has all options.

Lots of wheel questions this AM

Velocity Quill
DT 460
DT511
H+Son Archetype

[saab2000]

Lots of wheel questions this AM

Velocity Quill
DT 460
DT511
H+Son Archetype

Of these only the Velocity Quill achieves my 20mm internal width requirement.

I have always read that wheel builders like the HED rims for their accurate and straight extrusions. They're on the short list and the Belgium + is wide enough for my needs.

[mcteague]

I have the Easton R90SL rims as well built with WI T11 hubs and XRay spokes, built by November. Great rims and, as I understand it, they come from the same factory that makes HED.

Tim

[David in Maine]

I just had wheels for my new Seven built with Astral Solstice rims. Haven't ridden them much, but they seem really nice and quite light. 19.5mm internal. Made in Oregon. For a bit more aero and probably stronger--Astral Radiant.

David

[oldpotatoe]

Of these only the Velocity Quill achieves my 20mm internal width requirement.

I have always read that wheel builders like the HED rims for their accurate and straight extrusions. They're on the short list and the Belgium + is wide enough for my needs.

That is true however many higher end rims fill those squares. IME, the very best is DT, particularly those made in Switzerland but the Asian made ones are very close behind. I like HED rims, just not sure what you get for the extra $..

[weiwentg]

Of these only the Velocity Quill achieves my 20mm internal width requirement...

You likely have thought about why 20mm. However, does 1-2mm matter, in the context of the tire sizes you're likely to mount on a rim brake bike? I'd argue it shouldn't really be a deal breaker. Naturally, it's your bike and your wheels.

[robt57]

You likely have thought about why 20mm. However, does 1-2mm matter, in the context of the tire sizes you're likely to mount on a rim brake bike? I'd argue it shouldn't really be a deal breaker. Naturally, it's your bike and your wheels.

+1 Unless you are specifically targeting a tire wheel combo for aero reasons. Like the original design idea, so a 23 tire is very near width of the rim. For 99-44/100% of us in the real world superfluous really...

Having typed that, there is a sweet spot for 27-28mm actual width tires for 19-21c internal width rims. It just feels nice, solid. Unless you re still pumping tire up to 90-100PSI, then IMO superfluity enters back into the equation...

But then again, opinions are like PSI, right? ;)

[pdonk]

I am likely one if not the only dissenter with respect to HED Belgium + - I hate them.

It may be my tire choice (Schwalbe Pro One) but they are next to impossible to mount tires to and have the tire seat, are difficult to get tires off of. In order to mount with a tube, need to soap the bead and hope it locks, if not, you are riding a bucking bronco and toast the rim in short order.

Even having watched the videos of how to install tires and having a shop show me, have a hard time with them.

[Robot870]

I am likely one if not the only dissenter with respect to HED Belgium + - I hate them.

It may be my tire choice (Schwalbe Pro One) but they are next to impossible to mount tires to and have the tire seat, are difficult to get tires off of. In order to mount with a tube, need to soap the bead and hope it locks, if not, you are riding a bucking bronco and toast the rim in short order.

Even having watched the videos of how to install tires and having a shop show me, have a hard time with them.

They are almost impossible to mount with tubes but i went tubliss ( easy to mount) and never looked back - The new Pro ones with about 70psi have been amazing and no flats now for about 6 weeks in Manhattan......

[robt57]

A lot if early tubeless rims got the center well depth wrong!

I still have V1 SL23 Pacenti rims I won't bother even trying tubeless. But the 'tires' can and do make the fight easier or impossible. And way ore choice today than when these early rims came on the market as well.

BUT, what has helped on non deep well tubeless rim is my using Kapton tape instead of thicker commercial offerings. Forget old school cloth all together for tube setup.

I have rolls of the stuff I got off eBay on the wall in the shop. Cheap as well, in 5-6 years not one failure either.

[mistermo]

Lot's of good information on this subject on Fairwheel Bikes site: http://blog.fairwheelbikes.com/reviews-and-testing/alloy-rim-roundup/ EDIT: Well, I guess these aren't as wide as I'd initially thought.

[saab2000]

Lot's of good information on this subject on Fairwheel Bikes site: http://blog.fairwheelbikes.com/reviews-and-testing/alloy-rim-roundup/ EDIT: Well, I guess these aren't as wide as I'd initially thought.

This chart is pretty old.

I have the gen 1 Pacenti SL23 on the wheels in question. The rear is rideable at the moment but has a crack from a direct hit in a deep pothole last summer. One of the spoke holes has actual broken metal. So it’s a dead wheel rolling, no doubt.

When 18mm rims came out they were game changing. I don’t hate them. But I feel that 20mm rims have moved the bar even further.

My favorite non-tubular setup uses 23mm tires with 20mm rims. They’re light and lively and I like them. 25s are fine too. But the 23s on 20mm internal rims remind me of the positive qualities of the best tubulars. Not looking for aero. I like the aesthetic and ride qualities of lower profile rims for the riding these wheels will experience.

I will say that I’ve had good experience with Boyd Altamont Lite rims, so that’s a possibility. I’ve also had a good experience with Pacenti Forza rims and they’re asymmetrical, so that’s a positive.

These will be for my coupled Serotta CIII I’m rebuilding.

[colker]

This chart is pretty old.

I have the gen 1 Pacenti SL23 on the wheels in question. The rear is rideable at the moment but has a crack from a direct hit in a deep pothole last summer. One of the spoke holes has actual broken metal. So it’s a dead wheel rolling, no doubt.

When 18mm rims came out they were game changing. I don’t hate them. But I feel that 20mm rims have moved the bar even further.

My favorite non-tubular setup uses 23mm tires with 20mm rims. They’re light and lively and I like them. 25s are fine too. But the 23s on 20mm internal rims remind me of the positive qualities of the best tubulars. Not looking for aero. I like the aesthetic and ride qualities of lower profile rims for the riding these wheels will experience.

I will say that I’ve had good experience with Boyd Altamont Lite rims, so that’s a possibility. I’ve also had a good experience with Pacenti Forza rims and they’re asymmetrical, so that’s a positive.

These will be for my coupled Serotta CIII I’m rebuilding.

I read everywhere the 20mm rims should only be used w/ 25mm and fatter tires. Good to know something else is doable.

[GregL]

I read everywhere the 20mm rims should only be used w/ 25mm and fatter tires. Good to know something else is doable.
It really depends on the actual, measured width of the tires. For example, Continental Grand Prix 4000S II tires with a nominal size of 23mm measure out to 26mm on Kinlin XR26T or XR31T rims (inflated to 95 PSI). Are they really 23mm tires? I defer to wiser forum members.

Greg

[Mark McM]

It really depends on the actual, measured width of the tires. For example, Continental Grand Prix 4000S II tires with a nominal size of 23mm measure out to 26mm on Kinlin XR26T or XR31T rims (inflated to 95 PSI). Are they really 23mm tires? I defer to wiser forum members.

Greg

To be technical, 700x23c is ETRTO size, and these tires will be very close to 23mm when mounted to rims of ETRTO recommend width (which would be 13-15mm for 700x23c tires). If you mount to rims narrower or wider than the ETRTO specs, then they would be different width than the label says. Now that people are installing tires on rims wider than ETRTO recommendations, a lot of the labeled sizing goes out the window - while that GP 4000II might actually wider than 23mm when installed on an XR26T or XR31T rim (a combination not recommended by ETRTO), the tire is still a 700x23c ETRTO tire.

All that being said, tires often don't meet the exact ETRTO standards. Continental GP 4000II tires were actually a little bit wider than the specs. for their labeled size. To account for the recent popularity of wide rims, Continental actually slightly undersized their GP 5000 tires, so these tires will be closer to their labeled width when mounted to wide rims.

[saab2000]

For reference, these are 23mm Vittoria clinchers on V2 Pacenti SL23 rims, with the 20mm internal width. I rode them like this for a couple seasons and enjoyed them very much, so as long as I have decent pavement this is the experience I'm trying to recreate.

I no longer have these wheels and the replacement rims are the Forza so that's likely the direction I'll go.

https://live.staticflickr.com/8578/28681140142_6efd0e51c8_b.jpg

Mostly I posted this to see if there was anything I'm missing. It appears that this is what's out there.

I'd be tempted to try some carbon rims but they get very expensive very quickly and I'm thinking this bike may get some travel again as I'm considering everyone's positive reviews of the Solvang, CA area for cycling. These are the wheels in question and they need to be re-laced with newer rims.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49588629418_809c10a801_b.jpg

[lavi]

Bumping this up.

I'm looking to nab some rims for future builds.

I have few wheelsets built with HED Belg +. My builder says they are great to build with. But the price.

Now looking at Velocity Quill.

Same as OP, I want 20+ inner width.

Fire away.

[skitlets]

Bumping this up.

I'm looking to nab some rims for future builds.

I have few wheelsets built with HED Belg +. My builder says they are great to build with. But the price.

Now looking at Velocity Quill.

Same as OP, I want 20+ inner width.

Fire away.

I can't recall any new wide rim-brake rims released in the last 2 years. I'm still happy with kinlin and velocity quills.

[catchourbreath]

I had v1 & v2 Pacentis laced to my T-11s. Last fall relaced them to Quills since they were very similar in spec and so far so good.

[v531xc]

For rim brake? I picked up a couple pairs of the Ritchey Classic Zeta (https://ritcheylogic.com/bike/wheels/classic-zeta-wheels) last year and reallllly like them. Very good pre-built wheels with a low weight. Hunt has a similar pre-built wheel set and I think sell the rims separately.

Bumping this up.

I'm looking to nab some rims for future builds.

I have few wheelsets built with HED Belg +. My builder says they are great to build with. But the price.

Now looking at Velocity Quill.

Same as OP, I want 20+ inner width.

Fire away.

[DRietz]

Easton R90s are very similar to Belgiums, build great.

Velocity Quill, as mentioned, also great.

Pacenti figured out their QC issues/design errors and the Forza is a great evolution of the SL23 - available in an asymmetric extrusion for the rear, too.

Astral has some contenders, too.

I believe that Hunt uses Kinlin rims - also been around a long time, also great rims.

Oh, also, apparently the new Boyd Altamonts will also actually go into production this year.

Lotsa options!

[herb5998]

Another vote for the R90SL, very high quality, the stiffness in building it is quite similar to HED rims. 19.5mm internal.

[many_styles]

You know you wanna be silver Velocity Quill twins Lavi! [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lavi]

You know you wanna be silver Velocity Quill twins Lavi! [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is that what your wheels were built on? You know I loved staring at those wheels. If so, good to know as I liked the profile of your rims! I was likely mezmorized by your zooty hubs. :help:

[carlucci1106]

I have the Velocity Quills, cause I had to have polished silver for my Molteni Black Mountain :rolleyes: with WI T11 20/24h

I think it is an outlier, but I do have an imperfection at the sleeved seam that causes a flat spot that I cannot true out no matter what. I have other wheel builder friends who say they've had zero problems and they have always built absolutely true for them, and personally, I love the rims in every other respect. Ignoring that detail, I really do love them. The width is really nice, and they have been solid, feel great, and look good.

You would also have the insurance of if you get one similar to mine, you could return it. I didn't have that luxury, for reasons.

At the time, I was also looking at R90SLs as the specs are almost identical, as are HED Belgium +, but the R90SLs have the edge, ATMO.

If I was going with a black rim, I'd go with the Eastons. I believe they have the same or better quality (welded seam).

Edit: differences are

-the R90s are 19.5 ID and the Quills 21mm (optimized for tires 25mm and larger)
- 10g rim weight difference (within the margin for error, same)
- Quills are sleeved and R90s, welded

[saab2000]

Boyd has been showing a new Altamont coming now for at least 18 months. Fall 2021 and then fall 2022 came and went. They look nice in the diagrams I’ve seen. 21 mm internal and an offset rear rim. Not sure they’ll appear though.

[oldpotatoe]

Bumping this up.

I'm looking to nab some rims for future builds.

I have few wheelsets built with HED Belg +. My builder says they are great to build with. But the price.

Now looking at Velocity Quill.

Same as OP, I want 20+ inner width.

Fire away.

Couple of things.

HED, not only being painfully expensive, are getting really hard to find..Rim brake. Same for rim brake hubs. I suspect HED is close to being out of the rim brake rim biz..NO 24 or 28h available anywhere, including HED themselves.

I've built MANY Velocity rimmed wheel sets and they are first quality, easily available and not THAT expensive(altho Quill and Aileron are getting' up there).
Other good choices are DT, KinLin and H+Son..for rim brake rims.

[rothwem]

Another vote for the R90SL, very high quality, the stiffness in building it is quite similar to HED rims. 19.5mm internal.

Had a set of these, they were pretty great rims. They're not easy to find these days though, I was trying to find another set 2-3 months ago and none of the popular websites had them in stock. I wonder if its part of the Fox/Raceface/Easton conglomeration?

[many_styles]

Is that what your wheels were built on? You know I loved staring at those wheels. If so, good to know as I liked the profile of your rims! I was likely mezmorized by your zooty hubs. :help:


Yup!

I put in my order for a wheel build right at the start of the pandemic so Velocity’s polisher was closed and I ended up with one off satin finish. See if there’s anyway you can request the same finish from them!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Deanhorsfall]

I am curious what rims you ended up ordering? It seemed like the Easton rim was voted the most popular and I think they are a really good value. In Canada they are $100 less per rim than the Hed Belgium Plus rims. I have the same White Industries T11 in 24/28 and I built them up with DT Swiss RR411 rims, cx rays and they ended up being 1533 grams.
Title says it.

A set of WI T11 hubs, 28R and 24F are in my possession. Currently they’re laced to some V1 Pacenti SL23 rims but the rear (rim) is badly damaged and they’re out of date in any case.

I’m looking to rebuild and my general opinion is to go with another set of Pacenti, this time in the form of the Forza, which is a wide rim with a rear asymmetrical design.

The other contender is the HED Belgium Plus. It’s not offset but gets high ratings. Boyd rims? Happy with my Boyd pre-built wheels.

I’m curious if the wheel folks have an opinion on the metallurgy or extrusions of these rims.

I’m probably going with aluminum for the reasons of braking and descending. They’re for a bike with rim brakes. The current wheels seem to have a heavier spoke on the drive side.

Other ideas? Looking for wide internal and high quality.

Pro wheel builder dot com has all options.

[saab2000]

I am curious what rims you ended up ordering? It seemed like the Easton rim was voted the most popular and I think they are a really good value. In Canada they are $100 less per rim than the Hed Belgium Plus rims. I have the same White Industries T11 in 24/28 and I built them up with DT Swiss RR411 rims, cx rays and they ended up being 1533 grams.

I haven’t ordered anything yet. Not sure I will. I’ve got hubs but enough wheels to pass around on my fleet.

The Boyds still look the most interesting but they’re not available yet.

[oldpotatoe]

Bumping this up.

I'm looking to nab some rims for future builds.

I have few wheelsets built with HED Belg +. My builder says they are great to build with. But the price.

Now looking at Velocity Quill.

Same as OP, I want 20+ inner width.

Fire away.

Yup, Velocity Quill..Built more than a few, really nice rims.

[ssb94]

I've loved my H+son archetypes and would happily buy them again. Really curious to see what the new Boyd alloy rim wheels will look like though. Should be out very soon.

https://boydcycling.com/blogs/news/alloy-rim-brakes-wheels-2021-and-beyond

Always wanted to try some altamonts, but couldn't justify buying a set because the archetypes have been so solid.

[Deanhorsfall]

The new Boyd Altamont rims do look nice. The Quill rim also is a rim I would like to try. It has a nice profile and being made in USA is pretty cool.

[m_sasso]

A useful spread sheet that might be of some assistance: Road Rim Brake Wheels / Rims
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cKUN69eCTRIDAJCbd8SHWIts3u0GOaBYBzMcofeBzLg/edit#gid=0

[JSL]

Thanks for the summary.

I laced up a set of Mavic A319 for my mx leader as an inexpensive experiment. Have had Open Pros on all of my bikes for 30 years or so and the difference was unreal. The 319s were ultimately a little too heavy and sluggish for the purpose, but convinced me all of the Opens had to go.

A set of TB14s landed recently and they're excellent rims, but at 17mm internal, they aren't quite what I was looking for. They require about 5 psi more and simply don't have that super stable plush feel that the 19mm internal gave.

The Ambrosio P20 on your list seem interesting, but are a bit like finding a unicorn in europe.

Anyone have other suggests for a lowish profile 19-21mm internal 32 hole rim (in Europe)?

[calumf50]

Thanks for the summary.

I laced up a set of Mavic A319 for my mx leader as an inexpensive experiment. Have had Open Pros on all of my bikes for 30 years or so and the difference was unreal. The 319s were ultimately a little too heavy and sluggish for the purpose, but convinced me all of the Opens had to go.

A set of TB14s landed recently and they're excellent rims, but at 17mm internal, they aren't quite what I was looking for. They require about 5 psi more and simply don't have that super stable plush feel that the 19mm internal gave.

The Ambrosio P20 on your list seem interesting, but are a bit like finding a unicorn in europe.

Anyone have other suggests for a lowish profile 19-21mm internal 32 hole rim (in Europe)?

I just bought a set of DT Swiss RR 411 from bike 24. I think they meet your spec.

[openwheelracing]

it says Farsports Kaze 35 is 21 internal and 28 external. I am pretty sure that's disc rim.

[nalax]

https://boydcycling.com/products/altamont-alloy-clincher-rim?variant=43739957952770
I have a pair of T11's sitting around. The Boyd's might be a candidate.