Anybody have experience leading private cycling tours?

[BumbleBeeDave]

I've got a photo/writing freelance client who is starting a tour business, and he has asked me to hire on to lead private cycling tours on a freelance basis in several areas of upstate New York where I have extensive riding experience. We're talking groups up to six on road rides, gravel, or a mix. No MTB for now.

His business would primarily be aimed at folks within a 400 miles radius who want a private guided tour for a weekend or longer, so assumed lots of travelers from NYC metro, metro NJ, Boston, Hartford, etc. He would do promotions and sales and all I have to do is go lead the small tours and enjoy the riding, giving the clients the benefit of my 10+ years of experience riding up there.

I've got no doubt I could do this successfully, but any advice on the details would sure be appreciated. How to negotiate prices with this guy? What kind of agreement to draw up for clients to sign? How to price my services--hourly, by the day, whole weekend or week price? What about liability insurance?

The offer intrigues and excites me, but I also recognize I need to do my due diligence. Thanks for any advice from current or former tour leaders--or input from potential customers. What should I do as a tour leader to help you enjoy your experience?

Thanks!

BBD

[XXtwindad]

Cool post. I'm intrigued to hear the answers. I would imagine liability waivers are a must.

[AngryScientist]

i would want to make sure he carries all the insurance, for both you and the other clients.

i would make sure you are contractually protected from any and all liability associated with the tour.

everyone is pals until medical bills are involved.

i would also look at protecting yourself from "business loss" - in other words if he books a trip of paid customers and you come down with the flu the week of the tour, he cant bang you for the money he will be out.

those two thoughts pop to the top of my head.

[EricChanning]

I've lead private day trip rides in rural areas outside of DC. They were 3 hour rides but the package included a meal and the overall experience was about a 5 hour experiences in most cases. The group size would range from around 4 to 8 folks. Sometimes, I would lead a ride for couples for for a solo client.

PM me if you want to know the secrets of my successes and key to my failures over the 4 years I was actively providing this service! Would probably be best to have a phone conversation at some point. I'm happy to share the things I've learned.

[chrismoustache]

agree with the bits about insurance so far.

in my experience, setting clear expectations is essential for a successful guided trip. that, and the ability to stay positive and welcoming when someone shows up who is clearly unprepared for the experience.

even though a group of six is small, i rarely felt comfortable being the only guide on a trip. in the event that something takes a turn, it's nice to be able to attend to one participant while not holding up the experience of the others. this is where a second guide is super handy.

are you planning for multi-day rides, or single day?

[AngryScientist]

in my experience, setting clear expectations is essential for a successful guided trip.

that's a good point too. if 6 people show up, there is probably a range of fitness levels. do you ride to the pace of the slowest guy or...

[Ozz]

Cool post. I'm intrigued to hear the answers. I would imagine liability waivers are a must.

First thing I thought of......:eek:

[ryker]

First-aid training?

[XXtwindad]

Another thing to consider after reading through the responses: you're probably going to end up underpaid. So I would focus on the enjoyment you're going to derive from it.

[Plum Hill]

When I started leading rides for AYH in the early ‘80s, I bought a $1M liability rider to my homeowner’s policy. Still have it to CMA. If I get sued, however frivolous, the insurance company pays the defense attorney. When suits happen, the leader is usually listed separately in addition to the company. The company’s contract and amount of liability may come into play concerning your protection. And you cannot be 100% positive that the company pays it’s bill or doesn’t halt coverage. Ask me how I know.

I was a paid leader for a LBS in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s doing week-long hotel tours. Measly pay ($300/week) but I collected vacation pay at the same time. Bonus was I got the same food and hotel rooms as the guests. I shuttled the bags, drove SAG, paid the bills, fixed what I could. For the most part, all accommodations and meals were pre-arranged by the shop.
I started out as a mother hen, but found the guests were pretty much self-sufficient and helped each other out. As I got further into it, leading became much easier for me and I spent my time making things more “luxurious” for the guests (such as bags in the rooms instead of piled in a corner, deli trays, even setting up a race route).
I don’t see how one person can serve as a personal guide (i.e. on the bike) for a group due to varied riding abilities. You’ll need to figure out your responsibilities with the operator.

Personally, this was one of the richest life experiences I’ve had. My first trip was me, getting my feet wet, and 32 participants expecting ME to give them a good trip. I learned a lot about myself as well as others.
I made many friends, both guests and hosts.
Biggest PITAs were moneyed people. They expect everything to be perfect and, if it isn’t, it’s the leader’s fault. Yes, even the weather. This is the reason I didn’t go to work for one of the luxury tour operators.

By all means - give it a shot if you’re interested.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Yes, this is on my high-priority list to find out more about. I assume I'd need liability or umbrella coverage of some sort.

i would want to make sure he carries all the insurance, for both you and the other clients.

i would make sure you are contractually protected from any and all liability associated with the tour.

everyone is pals until medical bills are involved.

i would also look at protecting yourself from "business loss" - in other words if he books a trip of paid customers and you come down with the flu the week of the tour, he cant bang you for the money he will be out.

those two thoughts pop to the top of my head.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . are you planning for multi-day rides, or single day?

. . . weekend trips. Three days at most, at least to start. Clients drive over from NYC or Boston and we meet at home base town/hotel/B&B.

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

I'm trying to find out more about how much I would need to make it worth it.

Another thing to consider after reading through the responses: you're probably going to end up underpaid. So I would focus on the enjoyment you're going to derive from it.

[CNY rider]

Dave are you coming out this way with them?
I wonder if there could be a collaboration with Mark and Sherry @ the Inn.

Another thought, I love looking back at the photos you and other have taken of our Dirtphalt rides over the years. Yours in particular have that "pro" touch.
The guests on your rides might really appreciate a quality print that they get sent to remember the ride......and that could be something "extra" that you provide for a fee if they so choose.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Thanks so much for the offer and it would indeed be good to get on the phone for a few minutes. I would value your perspective on this (possible) opportunity.

Check your PM's.

BBD

I've lead private day trip rides in rural areas outside of DC. They were 3 hour rides but the package included a meal and the overall experience was about a 5 hour experiences in most cases. The group size would range from around 4 to 8 folks. Sometimes, I would lead a ride for couples for for a solo client.

PM me if you want to know the secrets of my successes and key to my failures over the 4 years I was actively providing this service! Would probably be best to have a phone conversation at some point. I'm happy to share the things I've learned.

[BumbleBeeDave]

All of these are part of my thinking. I feel I'm pretty well qualified to do some great rides on your turf. Pretty much like your gatherings . . . Three day tour with Friday warm-up road ride then gravel Saturday-Sunday.

But first I am doing my due diligence to make sure this prospective tour operator is on firm financial footing and has the previous biz experience to make this a success if I jump in. I don't want to become just another creditor.

BBD

Dave are you coming out this way with them?
I wonder if there could be a collaboration with Mark and Sherry @ the Inn.

Another thought, I love looking back at the photos you and other have taken of our Dirtphalt rides over the years. Yours in particular have that "pro" touch.
The guests on your rides might really appreciate a quality print that they get sent to remember the ride......and that could be something "extra" that you provide for a fee if they so choose.