Recommend light clincher wheelset

[NHAero]

In the thread in which I asked about what I would notice with a light carbon bike, several people said to stick with the Firefly and put some light wheels on it. The wheels on it now are White Industries T11 with HED Belgium rims, 32 rear, 28 front - not sure what the spokes are. I weighed them without skewers or cassette, but with Vittoria Corsa G+ 28mm tires and unknown tubes (short stem, ~25mm) at 1,300 g rear, 1,130g front. The tires new weight 530g (have two, weighed them) and if I guess 200g for the two tubes, I'm at 1,700g for the set with rim tape.

I'm 145 lbs. Please learn me what would be a good choice for lightweight wheels, both alloy, hybrid carbon/alloy if that makes sense, and carbon. Using Dura Ace 9000 brakes if that makes any difference. Corsas measure just over 28mm on the Belgium rims.

[stien]

Many hills over there? :p

But seriously, if you want light, DA 9000 or 9100 come to mind. Those are a hybrid of sorts.
I'm running T11/Pacenti Forza at a lower spoke count which you could certainly get away with. It's not like your wheels are heavy or anything, just more spokes (and perhaps they aren't the high zoot variety).

Other hybrid wheels I've ridden have been the HED Jets, fast as hell but fill up with water in the rain.

Easy to beat 1700g for pretty cheap with 20/24 lacing.

Edit: you can take my wheels for a quick spin if you want. They have 23mm GP4kSIIs on them and 11s 11-32 cassette. Obviously you can swap whatever but it'll give you a decent idea of what they might feel like.

[dbnm]

Check these out.
https://shop.mavic.com/en-us/ksyrium-pro-ust-rr0928.html#1028=3283

Shop for prices as you can get these for about $800

[Seramount]

have had two sets of DA C24s. stellar wheels.

light, bullet-proof, not that expensive...

[Elefantino]

A couple of lightweights that have impressed me in quick tests: the Rolf Vigor and and the Industry Nine I25s. Both in the $1k-1.2k range.

[Davist]

Dura Ace C24s, great wheels..

[sparky33]

HED Ardennes Plus SL are 1500g. I see them for $720. You can absolutely ride lower spoke count (lighter) at your weight...most 20/24 sets will be under 1500g.
See Boyd also.
Or Industry Nine if you like loud durable hubs.

[Tony]

In the thread in which I asked about what I would notice with a light carbon bike, several people said to stick with the Firefly and put some light wheels on it. The wheels on it now are White Industries T11 with HED Belgium rims, 32 rear, 28 front - not sure what the spokes are. I weighed them without skewers or cassette, but with Vittoria Corsa G+ 28mm tires and unknown tubes (short stem, ~25mm) at 1,300 g rear, 1,130g front. The tires new weight 530g (have two, weighed them) and if I guess 200g for the two tubes, I'm at 1,700g for the set with rim tape.

I'm 145 lbs. Please learn me what would be a good choice for lightweight wheels, both alloy, hybrid carbon/alloy if that makes sense, and carbon. Using Dura Ace 9000 brakes if that makes any difference. Corsas measure just over 28mm on the Belgium rims.

If the spokes are of the same quality of the rest of the wheelset, nice solid fairly light alloy wheelset! You'll need to look at carbon rims and even lighter hubs to make any real difference if any.

[pdmtong]

There is no reason to ride 1700g rim brake wheels. Especially at 145.

Go find the Fulcrum equivalent to Bora One's and prepare to answer why you did not do that sooner.

[Tony]

There is no reason to ride 1700g rim brake wheels. Especially at 145.

Go find the Fulcrum equivalent to Bora One's and prepare to answer why you did not do that sooner.

1545 grams for the FULCRUM RACING ZERO C17 CLINCHER WHEELSET
Only 155 grams difference.

[pdmtong]

1545 grams for the FULCRUM RACING ZERO C17 CLINCHER WHEELSET
Only 155 grams difference.

What? that is NOT where i was heading. 155g - meh.

A Bora One clincher set is 1400g...there must be a Fulcrum equivalent...else if runing 11sp just use the campag cassette with shimano/sram...

300g is noticeable

[Clancy]

For off the shelf wheels, I’d take a serious look at Hunt. I have a pair of the 30 Carbon disc wheels and have put plenty of miles on them and I’ve been impressed. Not a single issue, freehub is very easy to service. Light, good looking, solid reviews and quite a bit less then comparable wheelsets.

I’d also agree on the C24’s or the C35’. I have both in rim brake versions. Carbon rims with aluminum brake tracks, no need for carbon pads. There’s nothing quite like the sublime quality of Dura Ace cup and cone ball bearing hubs. Feel like silk. Beautiful and they often show up here used for very reasonable prices. Easy to adjust and if taken care of will last many, many miles.

Off topic but just for grins I packed a pair of Dura Ace hubs with Mobile 1 synthetic grease when I serviced last. (Had a new container left over from a m/c build) I inspected them some miles later and the grease looked brand new. With the Mobile 1 hubs seem even smoother, probably placebo effect.

[Tony]

What? that is NOT where i was heading. 155g - meh.

A Bora One clincher set is 1400g...there must be a Fulcrum equivalent...else if runing 11sp just use the campag cassette with shimano/sram...

300g is noticeable

Just weighted them, they are actually 1532 gram, 168g difference

[KarlC]

Have a look at these ......

https://carbonbikewheels.com.au/us/product/35-off-38mm-carbon-clincher-wheelset


https://fse.bike/collections/clincher-tubeless/products/evo-35ct-carbon-fiber-clincher-tubeless-road-wheelset


https://fse.bike/collections/outlet/products/fse300-35c-carbon-fiber-clincher-wheelset


https://fse.bike/collections/extralite-series/products/fse-23c-super-extralite-998g-clincher-road-wheels

.

[Lanternrouge]

I’d also recommend checking out FSE wheels. Lots of good options out there.

[tv_vt]

I have DA c24s. Think I like the c17 Shamals better, though. Even some c17 Zondas would have a noticeable difference. Maybe not so much with weight, but with stiffness and responsiveness, compared to the Belgiums, which feel a bit like tanks to me.

I'd switch to 25mm tires, too. 28's are overkill for a light road wheel.

[Clean39T]

The HED Ardennes SL Black wheels rchman just posted are great wheels. The braking is excellent. And they are light w super smooth bearings.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[OtayBW]

HED Ardennes Plus SL are 1500g. I see them for $720. You can absolutely ride lower spoke count (lighter) at your weight...most 20/24 sets will be under 1500g.
See Boyd also.
Or Industry Nine if you like loud durable hubs.
Agree. I've had a set of Hed Ardennes FR for years. Supposed to be just sub 1500g. They're still holding up after 1000s of miles.

[colker]

Campagnolo Hyperon. Wait... that´s tubular. Get the Shammals.

[Andy sti]

Carbon-Ti hubs, CX-ray spokes, alloy nips, Easton R90SL rims. Have Ergott build them. At least that’s what I want.

[robertbb]

1545 grams for the FULCRUM RACING ZERO C17 CLINCHER WHEELSET
Only 155 grams difference.

1538 grams for Zonda C17's. 2/3 cheaper and without those ghastly fat, crosswind catching alloy spokes.

[NHAero]

They made them in clincher too, how come no more?

Campagnolo Hyperon. Wait... that´s tubular. Get the Shammals.

[NHAero]

Those Aussie Decadence wheels look terrific- know anyone who has them?

Have a look at these ......

https://carbonbikewheels.com.au/us/product/35-off-38mm-carbon-clincher-wheelset


https://fse.bike/collections/clincher-tubeless/products/evo-35ct-carbon-fiber-clincher-tubeless-road-wheelset


https://fse.bike/collections/outlet/products/fse300-35c-carbon-fiber-clincher-wheelset


https://fse.bike/collections/extralite-series/products/fse-23c-super-extralite-998g-clincher-road-wheels

.

[KarlC]

Those Aussie Decadence wheels look terrific- know anyone who has them?

Tubulars Right here ......

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48870812687_1aac55ba16_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hsxFYK)


Also .....

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=113&t=156657

.

[mtechnica]

1538 grams for Zonda C17's. 2/3 cheaper and without those ghastly fat, crosswind catching alloy spokes.

Zondas are cheap and pretty good. Hard to go wrong when you can get them for like $400 shipped or less. I’d either get those or actual aero wheels.

[yinzerniner]

Budget would help, as a set of bora ultras, bonty xxx, enve 3.4s or customs with superlight rims and exotic hubs will feel like heaven but cost a mountain of cash.

Best bang for the buck if purchasing brand new is probably something like the fulcrum racing zero, HED Ardennes sl, or Boyd altamont lites. Custom gets awesome but pricey.

Good thing now is the rim brake market is so weak you’d probably be able to get a bitchin deal on awesome wheels if you’re patient and know exactly what you’d want.

[oldpotatoe]

In the thread in which I asked about what I would notice with a light carbon bike, several people said to stick with the Firefly and put some light wheels on it. The wheels on it now are White Industries T11 with HED Belgium rims, 32 rear, 28 front - not sure what the spokes are. I weighed them without skewers or cassette, but with Vittoria Corsa G+ 28mm tires and unknown tubes (short stem, ~25mm) at 1,300 g rear, 1,130g front. The tires new weight 530g (have two, weighed them) and if I guess 200g for the two tubes, I'm at 1,700g for the set with rim tape.

I'm 145 lbs. Please learn me what would be a good choice for lightweight wheels, both alloy, hybrid carbon/alloy if that makes sense, and carbon. Using Dura Ace 9000 brakes if that makes any difference. Corsas measure just over 28mm on the Belgium rims.

DT411 rims, DT350 hubs, 20Radial/24-2cross. A mix of CXRay and CXSprint spokes..Squorx alloy nipps..'About' 1450g..DT240 or DT180 for more $

If you'd like, I can build the above...for about $750..DT350 hubs.

[sokyroadie]

Squorx alloy nipps

:eek::help::banana::hello:

I guess it is never to late to teach an old tater new tricks.

[Kyle h]

I would go Bontrager XXX 2 or 4 if you’re budget allows. 1300g for the 2, 1400g for the 4s. Great wheels all around.

[tuscanyswe]

Just weighted them, they are actually 1532 gram, 168g difference

Regular fulcrum zero are not the fulcrum equivalent to campy bora ones.

They make the fulcrum zero in carbon at 1340grams which is a better comparison as they are both carbon wheels.

Campy shamal would be better wheels to compare with regular fulcrum racing zero as both are the top alloy wheels.

[Ralph]

For the money....Campy Zonda's or Fulcrum equivalent. Never heard anything but praise for OP's wheels either. I ride Zonda's.

[oldpotatoe]

:eek::help::banana::hello:

I guess it is never to late to teach an old tater new tricks.

HA..Yup, have the DT tool so these aren't 'bad' but on most wheels that use these, for 'bigger' people..I use the brass version of the Squorx...

[mcteague]

He already has White Industries T11 with HED Belgium rims which are pretty much TOTL. Other than fewer spokes what is he really gaining with new wheels?

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

He already has White Industries T11 with HED Belgium rims which are pretty much TOTL. Other than fewer spokes what is he really gaining with new wheels?

Tim

Fewer spokes!! C'mon, less is more!!:)

I think, along with others, he needs to get a pair of really keen carbon tubulars and see what he is missing..wanna save some weight? Pretty easy to get in the 1100 or so gram range..Yup, I know saving 600 or so grams on his 73 THOUSAND gram 'package' ain't much but coffee shop points too...:)

[NHAero]

Looking for significantly lighter wheel, otherwise a waste of time and money.

I've already learned a lot with all of your help, especially in terms of what's out there. Also learned that some claimed weights vs. measured weights are close, others are not :-)

The Caden wheels seem like the best value. I watched a couple of his videos. The 2:1 rear spoke pattern makes sense to me, and the reinforced nipple areas on the rims also. Like the 27mm width too. In the Decadence version, 38mm, it's close to a pound lighter than the wheelset on the bike now, and likely more aero also, being deeper and wider.



He already has White Industries T11 with HED Belgium rims which are pretty much TOTL. Other than fewer spokes what is he really gaining with new wheels?

Tim

[NHAero]

I rode tubies in college, not looking to go back. Not interested in tubeless either.

Peter, like a lot of the people on this board, I'm interested in new experiences. I've already said I know this isn't going to make me faster in any measurable way, and as far as coffee shop points, I don't spend much time at coffee shops, and I mostly ride alone. Gonna be hard to find people to brag to. Even when it's "parked", I don't have people noticing the FF. I get a fair bit of notice with the Anderson which I think comes from the shiny metal fenders completing the package of what is a beautiful bike. The FF, especially being painted, is much more stealth.

After reading all the responses on the thread I started on light carbon bikes, I think I'm not missing much there in terms of ride experience. Every time I go out on the Firefly I just love that bike, and chant, I am not worthy. I've had some back and forth with Kevin at FF (they are SO responsive) and I've learned some more about FF #275. It was built for a heavier and more powerful rider, and he'd lighten up the frame if they built me a custom, but that's where it doesn't seem like the grams vs $ is worthwhile. It's not going to make the bike smoother over bumpy surfaces than it is now in any perceivable way, and it's very doubtful I'd save as much weight as is possible on the wheels, where conventional wisdom has always said is the best place to take the grams off (is that still accepted?)

Thanks all who have contributed to this thread so far, really enlightening :)


Fewer spokes!! C'mon, less is more!!:)

I think, along with others, he needs to get a pair of really keen carbon tubulars and see what he is missing..wanna save some weight? Pretty easy to get in the 1100 or so gram range..Yup, I know saving 600 or so grams on his 73 THOUSAND gram 'package' ain't much but coffee shop points too...:)

[colker]

They made them in clincher too, how come no more?

If it´s clincher (i will) chose aluminum rims. If carbon (i would) go w/ tubulars.

[Tony]

Budget would help, as a set of bora ultras, bonty xxx, enve 3.4s or customs with superlight rims and exotic hubs will feel like heaven but cost a mountain of cash.

Best bang for the buck if purchasing brand new is probably something like the fulcrum racing zero, HED Ardennes sl, or Boyd altamont lites. Custom gets awesome but pricey.

Good thing now is the rim brake market is so weak you’d probably be able to get a bitchin deal on awesome wheels if you’re patient and know exactly what you’d want.

Yes, this is the way to do it. You already have a nice alloy wheelset, look for good deals on a carbon wheelset w/textured brake track.

[colker]

I rode tubies in college, not looking to go back. Not interested in tubeless either.

Peter, like a lot of the people on this board, I'm interested in new experiences. I've already said I know this isn't going to make me faster in any measurable way, and as far as coffee shop points, I don't spend much time at coffee shops, and I mostly ride alone. Gonna be hard to find people to brag to. Even when it's "parked", I don't have people noticing the FF. I get a fair bit of notice with the Anderson which I think comes from the shiny metal fenders completing the package of what is a beautiful bike. The FF, especially being painted, is much more stealth.

After reading all the responses on the thread I started on light carbon bikes, I think I'm not missing much there in terms of ride experience. Every time I go out on the Firefly I just love that bike, and chant, I am not worthy. I've had some back and forth with Kevin at FF (they are SO responsive) and I've learned some more about FF #275. It was built for a heavier and more powerful rider, and he'd lighten up the frame if they built me a custom, but that's where it doesn't seem like the grams vs $ is worthwhile. It's not going to make the bike smoother over bumpy surfaces than it is now in any perceivable way, and it's very doubtful I'd save as much weight as is possible on the wheels, where conventional wisdom has always said is the best place to take the grams off (is that still accepted?)

Thanks all who have contributed to this thread so far, really enlightening :)

If you are interested in new experiences i suggest get off the racing bike bandwagon. Grab a long chainstay rivendell , bags to carry stuff and go slow off road on long day rides dressed in anything but lycra. A heavy bike built w/ cheap derrailleurs. Now that is a different riding experience.
You already have lightweight clinchers and want to buy more of the same thing w/ different logos. Then write on paceline about minuscule differences you found on the new stuff while riding the same roads. Huh...
Try something different. Indeed.

[8aaron8]

Both the Dura Ace c24 and HED Ardennes Black were mentioned. I have both and while both are great wheels I would recommend the HED. The tire profile makes for a more aerodynamic profile vs the narrower DA and a smoother feeling profile when riding, braking is also great on both but the HED's textured brake track is outstanding and I have yet to see any wear on the brake track itself.

[NHAero]

Hmm, maybe I'll pretend I don't already own the '72 Bob Jackson all-rounder and the Anderson all-rounder with 38s and discs and fenders....or the Big Dummy if I really wanted an experience with heavy :) It's got 3x9 XT, so maybe qualifies as cheap derailleurs?

If you are interested in new experiences i suggest get off the racing bike bandwagon. Grab a long chainstay rivendell , bags to carry stuff and go slow off road on long day rides dressed in anything but lycra. A heavy bike built w/ cheap derrailleurs. Now that is a different riding experience.
You already have lightweight clinchers and want to buy more of the same thing w/ different logos. Then write on paceline about minuscule differences you found on the new stuff while riding the same roads. Huh...
Try something different. Indeed.

[NHAero]

Good to hear your experience with both wheelsets, thanks.

I pulled the tire and tube off the front this morning, and based on the weight I measured, I have a wheelset that weighs 1690g with rim tape. Going to 1500g or more (CC shows the HED at 1500 actual, and typically this is no rim tape) doesn't seem like enough of a delta. Those Decadence wheels Karl pointed me to come in around 1300 with rim tape - almost a pound, which it looks as though would be 2-3X the weight loss of the HED.


Both the Dura Ace c24 and HED Ardennes Black were mentioned. I have both and while both are great wheels I would recommend the HED. The tire profile makes for a more aerodynamic profile vs the narrower DA and a smoother feeling profile when riding, braking is also great on both but the HED's textured brake track is outstanding and I have yet to see any wear on the brake track itself.

[colker]

Hmm, maybe I'll pretend I don't already own the '72 Bob Jackson all-rounder and the Anderson all-rounder with 38s and discs and fenders....or the Big Dummy if I really wanted an experience with heavy :) It's got 3x9 XT, so maybe qualifies as cheap derailleurs?

Then you have everything... oh well.;)

[NHAero]

I do have a very wide range of types compared to many on here!
Raleigh 20 folder from late 1960s
Bilenky tandem from Steveandbarb
Nagasawa fixie road trainer
Pivot FS 29er
Litespeed MTB converted to drop bar 26er

All get ridden too, which is why the Firefly, coming up on a year of my ownership, only has 1,100-1,200 miles.


Then you have everything... oh well.;)

[72gmc]

And now, for a 1500g dynamo wheelset ...

[KarlC]

Looking for significantly lighter wheel, otherwise a waste of time and money.

I've already learned a lot with all of your help, especially in terms of what's out there. Also learned that some claimed weights vs. measured weights are close, others are not :-)

The Caden wheels seem like the best value. I watched a couple of his videos. The 2:1 rear spoke pattern makes sense to me, and the reinforced nipple areas on the rims also. Like the 27mm width too. In the Decadence version, 38mm, it's close to a pound lighter than the wheelset on the bike now, and likely more aero also, being deeper and wider.

Ive been really impressed with my Caden Decadence wheels, let us know what you end up doing.

.

[colker]

I do have a very wide range of types compared to many on here!
Raleigh 20 folder from late 1960s
Bilenky tandem from Steveandbarb
Nagasawa fixie road trainer
Pivot FS 29er
Litespeed MTB converted to drop bar 26er

All get ridden too, which is why the Firefly, coming up on a year of my ownership, only has 1,100-1,200 miles.

I like your fleet.;)

[vincenz]

Campy Bora One or Bora Ultra clinchers with Tubolito road tubes and Pirelli P Zero Velo TT tires.

1800g total for wheels, tires, and tubes. Amazing ride.

[sparky33]

going with latex inner tubes (e.g. Vittoria) will save maybe 2x50g... easy and cheap

[oldpotatoe]

I rode tubies in college, not looking to go back. Not interested in tubeless either.

Peter, like a lot of the people on this board, I'm interested in new experiences. I've already said I know this isn't going to make me faster in any measurable way, and as far as coffee shop points, I don't spend much time at coffee shops, and I mostly ride alone. Gonna be hard to find people to brag to. Even when it's "parked", I don't have people noticing the FF. I get a fair bit of notice with the Anderson which I think comes from the shiny metal fenders completing the package of what is a beautiful bike. The FF, especially being painted, is much more stealth.

After reading all the responses on the thread I started on light carbon bikes, I think I'm not missing much there in terms of ride experience. Every time I go out on the Firefly I just love that bike, and chant, I am not worthy. I've had some back and forth with Kevin at FF (they are SO responsive) and I've learned some more about FF #275. It was built for a heavier and more powerful rider, and he'd lighten up the frame if they built me a custom, but that's where it doesn't seem like the grams vs $ is worthwhile. It's not going to make the bike smoother over bumpy surfaces than it is now in any perceivable way, and it's very doubtful I'd save as much weight as is possible on the wheels, where conventional wisdom has always said is the best place to take the grams off (is that still accepted?)

Thanks all who have contributed to this thread so far, really enlightening :)

Not trying to throw any stones but 'new wheels' are firmly in the 'no such thing as a free lunch' arena....

-1100-1200 gram wheels? Pretty much gotta be carbon rims, fewer spokes.
-"Gee, not really that expensive"..either private label, lower quality hubs..or rims...or builds..almost certainly off shore produced. They 'may' be perfect..but may not be..buying and using sight on seen, often. It would be a shame to buy some of these($1000+), slap them on and either they 'feel' dead or don't stay true..then find you cannot return 'used' wheels.
-1100-1200 wheelset with quality hubs, great reviews, excellent builds, great rep...not cheap..even those Caden wheels are 'normally' in the $1600 range.
Not sure if that is marketing..BIG discount or what.
-So, kinda gotta decide 'worth', for you. Worth is a really big word. $ vs expected 'feel', and a "new experience"..

As they say, GLWBuy, ymmv, IMHO, ATMO...etc...:)

[Bob Ross]

1,300 g rear, 1,130g front.

Everyone claiming OP can find much lighter clinchers than 1700g might've missed ^^^this figure from post #1. The 1700g figure was with tires and tubes.

28 or 32 spoke alloy clinchers that are 1,300 g rear, 1,130g front!?!?! Dude, you are riding light wheels!

[weiwentg]

going with latex inner tubes (e.g. Vittoria) will save maybe 2x50g... easy and cheap

I just switched to latex myself. You do have to pump latex tubes up every day, but it’s something I think a lot of us can learn. The Vittorias don’t leak as much air as the others, I hear.

The main reason I switched was the lower rolling resistance, not so much the weight.

[oldpotatoe]

I just switched to latex myself. You do have to pump latex tubes up every day, but it’s something I think a lot of us can learn. The Vittorias don’t leak as much air as the others, I hear.

The main reason I switched was the lower rolling resistance, not so much the weight.

I think that's a great point. Lighter 'anything' is just 'lighter', not necessarily 'better', which is mostly subjective.

BUT, with bike stuff, you can measure ONLY 2 things..weight and price..all else is subjective.

AND another thing comes to mind..rim brake wheels and proprietary rims and spokes..most of which are NOT supported well by the manufacturer..It's a real shame when you have to take a really fine hub and make a pen holder out of it cuz you can't find a replacement rim.

A gent asked me to try to find a BORA rim..Found one..over $1000(yup, just the rim), on sale for a mere $585...yowser. Couldn't find a C24 rim...

[fa63]

To me, it is hard to beat the combination of lightweight, stiffness and durability that the Dura Ace C24 wheels offer. Campy Zonda wheels offered a similar feel in my experience, but they were about 150 g heavier in the Shimano freehub configuration (though they are half the price).

[NHAero]

My figure of 1,690g is bare wheels with rim tape. Not exactly boat anchors. I might try a set that knocks 400g off that, to see what it's like. I think with tires and tubes, with light tubes, maybe 1925-1950g total. About a pound.

Peter - Australia is certainly offshore! I haven't found a single negative post about the Caden wheels.

QUOTE=Bob Ross;2662054]Everyone claiming OP can find much lighter clinchers than 1700g might've missed ^^^this figure from post #1. The 1700g figure was with tires and tubes.

28 or 32 spoke alloy clinchers that are 1,300 g rear, 1,130g front!?!?! Dude, you are riding light wheels![/QUOTE]

[NHAero]

I'm curious - have you weighed those wheels? One of the things I like about Competitive Cyclist is they often publish Claimed Weight and Actual Weight.
At the link below, you can see the Ultra's Claimed Weight at 1,360g and Actual at 1,720g.
OP talks about being surprised when the wheels show up - I'd be pretty surprised if a >$3K wheelset weighed 360g more than advertised.

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/campagnolo-bora-ultra-35-wheelset-clincher?skidn=CPG004A-BRILAB-CAMFRE&ti=UExQIENhdDpDbGluY2hlciBCaWtlIFdoZWVsczoxOjU6Y2N DYXQxMDAwNzE=

Campy Bora One or Bora Ultra clinchers with Tubolito road tubes and Pirelli P Zero Velo TT tires.

1800g total for wheels, tires, and tubes. Amazing ride.

[NHAero]

But wait - I thought Campy really was better, objectively? Insert smiley with wink and grin here


BUT, with bike stuff, you can measure ONLY 2 things..weight and price..all else is subjective.

[oldpotatoe]

Peter - Australia is certainly offshore! I haven't found a single negative post about the Caden wheels.

No doubt and these wheels get great reviews BUT 'private label', asian sourced rims and hubs..yes? Not saying they are not great hubs and rims but something has to 'give' when it comes to $1100 or so carbon clincher WHEELS...
Use a DT hub, the price is gona go up. Interesting that in their ad/website they say
deCADENce CENTRIST 3D Forged T7075 Straight Pull. 100% Custom Designed With Over 150 Years Combined Knowledge. Silky Smooth, Stiff & RELIABLE. Same Weight As Exotic Italians With More Durability

Lotsa hubs out there but the real 'exotics' are not necessarily from Italia..

And 'more durablity'...a big maybe yes, maybe not.marketeer-speak.

[NHAero]

I recognize there is more risk with wheels like these than Shimano or Campy or custom from you or Ergott (both of you have built wheels for me).


Peter - Australia is certainly offshore! I haven't found a single negative post about the Caden wheels.

No doubt and these wheels get great reviews BUT 'private label', asian sourced rims and hubs..yes? Not saying they are not great hubs and rims but something has to 'give' when it comes to $1100 or so carbon clincher WHEELS...
Use a DT hub, the price is gona go up. Interesting that in their ad/website they say


Lotsa hubs out there but the real 'exotics' are not necessarily from Italia..

And 'more durablity'...a big maybe yes, maybe not.marketeer-speak.

[oldpotatoe]

I recognize there is more risk with wheels like these than Shimano or Campy or custom from you or Ergott (both of you have built wheels for me).

10-4...if you DO have an issue, do send them to Hollywood or back to Australia? US buyer?
Interestingly enough, 8375 Hollywood Blvd, LA, looks like somebody's house..google maps. US Caden POC.
:):confused:

[htwoopup]

I have a set of these. Like them better than my Enve’s. Made in Montreal. A technology that is fantastic and I was told by the carbon master who crafted my bike that he highly approved of their method. And it isn’t as far as Australia and unlike the FSE’s, Caden’s, Etc etc are NOT just rebadged Asian stuff but actually designed and built by the guys in Montreal.... https://www.falconcomposites.com


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[oldpotatoe]

I have a set of these. Like them better than my Enve’s. Made in Montreal. A technology that is fantastic and I was told by the carbon master who crafted my bike that he highly approved of their method. And it isn’t as far as Australia and unlike the FSE’s, Caden’s, Etc etc are NOT just rebadged Asian stuff but actually designed and built by the guys in Montreal.... https://www.falconcomposites.com


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Yup, BUT probably private label hubs made in Asia and more than twice the $ of Caden..($2600cdn 'normally', now discounted, $2000CDN..$2600USD)..NOT saying these aren't great but back to the OP, yes, many wheelsets and a variety of $ and quality...:)

[Tony]

Do these carbon rims from Caden and Falconcomposites have a textured brake track? After riding carbon with and without I would never go back to not having a textured brake track, never!

[smokersteve]

My Light Bicycle 46mm deep carbon clinchers came in at 1435 grams for the pair. Excellent wheels especially for $650

[htwoopup]

Yup, BUT probably private label hubs made in Asia and more than twice the $ of Caden..($2600cdn 'normally', now discounted, $2000CDN..$2600USD)..NOT saying these aren't great but back to the OP, yes, many wheelsets and a variety of $ and quality...:)



True on pricing part...I had missed that in OP...And I had them build mine with DT hubs since I like all of my wheels to have the same hubs.


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[colker]

I just switched to latex myself. You do have to pump latex tubes up every day, but it’s something I think a lot of us can learn. The Vittorias don’t leak as much air as the others, I hear.

The main reason I switched was the lower rolling resistance, not so much the weight.


I don´t get why tubulars are described as labour intensive but pumping up tires everyday is considered something i could get used to.
The same w/ tubeless.. I understand tubeless is a great idea in cactus land otoh a wheel you have to fight against when installing a tire?
Carbon wheels is the next level and very expensive... but you can have an equally stiff wheel w/ a better more reliable brake track at 100grs more for both wheels if aluminium. Ok.. 200 grs more but safer when riding mountains.
Wheels are crazy.

[colker]

My Light Bicycle 46mm deep carbon clinchers came in at 1435 grams for the pair. Excellent wheels especially for $650

You could have wheels w/ aluminium rims at this weight and price. As stiff, same weight, better braking and much safer than carbon clinchers.

[Tony]

You could have wheels w/ aluminium rims at this weight and price. As stiff, same weight, better braking and much safer than carbon clinchers.

What? 46mm deep aluminum rims at 1435 grams? Don't think so.

[ryker]

Same stiffness? Don’t think so.

[yinzerniner]

I'm curious - have you weighed those wheels? One of the things I like about Competitive Cyclist is they often publish Claimed Weight and Actual Weight.
At the link below, you can see the Ultra's Claimed Weight at 1,360g and Actual at 1,720g.
OP talks about being surprised when the wheels show up - I'd be pretty surprised if a >$3K wheelset weighed 360g more than advertised.

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/campagnolo-bora-ultra-35-wheelset-clincher?skidn=CPG004A-BRILAB-CAMFRE&ti=UExQIENhdDpDbGluY2hlciBCaWtlIFdoZWVsczoxOjU6Y2N DYXQxMDAwNzE=

I would never go by the claimed and actual weight on the comp cyclist site. While they might weigh items in house they often weight them in a haphazard manner, or even just neglect to mention that they also had accessories on while weighing.

Case in point - the Force 22 and Red BB386 cranksets are exactly the same, but they somehow have a 40g or 6% weight difference in similar length and chainring combos. I've personally weighted both and can confirm they are the exact same.

Just an FYI, over the WW the weights are usually right around spec for the bora 35s
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=144199

You could have wheels w/ aluminium rims at this weight and price. As stiff, same weight, better braking and much safer than carbon clinchers.

But they won't be all black, and everyone knows that's the most important factor of any wheel!

Honestly though, the only real factor for deep carbon rim brake clinchers is if you are trying to get deeper section thus stiffer and slightly more aero rims. Otherwise sticking with alloy is the way to go simply because of the better braking. The best textured carbon brake tracks are still only adequate in stopping power.

For the OP, at such a light weight deeper carbon is not the best for everyday riding since they'll be very tough in crosswinds. So stick with normal (20-30mm) depth, get the best possible hubs for the budget and use nice double butted or bladed spokes paired with a quality rim. And don't worry about total weight as the end all be all - quality rim, spokes and builds are twice as noticeable as gram savings.

Same stiffness? Don’t think so.
Still the stiffest wheels I've ever been on were a 1390g build with tune hubs, pillar spokes and an Easton R90SL alloy rim. They beat the pants off a set of Enve 4.5AR disc.

[KarlC]

Do these carbon rims from Caden and Falconcomposites have a textured brake track? After riding carbon with and without I would never go back to not having a textured brake track, never!

The Caden wheels I have do not have a textured brake track, BUT they stop way better than the ENVE wheels I had with a textured brake track.

If you do a bit of reading not all textured brake tracks are impressive and some smooth brake tracks wheels work really well.

.

[NHAero]

All disc, don't see rim brake versions.

I have a set of these. Like them better than my Enve’s. Made in Montreal. A technology that is fantastic and I was told by the carbon master who crafted my bike that he highly approved of their method. And it isn’t as far as Australia and unlike the FSE’s, Caden’s, Etc etc are NOT just rebadged Asian stuff but actually designed and built by the guys in Montreal.... https://www.falconcomposites.com


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[vincenz]

I'm curious - have you weighed those wheels? One of the things I like about Competitive Cyclist is they often publish Claimed Weight and Actual Weight.

At the link below, you can see the Ultra's Claimed Weight at 1,360g and Actual at 1,720g.

OP talks about being surprised when the wheels show up - I'd be pretty surprised if a >$3K wheelset weighed 360g more than advertised.



https://www.competitivecyclist.com/campagnolo-bora-ultra-35-wheelset-clincher?skidn=CPG004A-BRILAB-CAMFRE&ti=UExQIENhdDpDbGluY2hlciBCaWtlIFdoZWVsczoxOjU6Y2N DYXQxMDAwNzE=



Yes, I have both. The bora Ultras were off about 20g and the Ones were off about 15g.

I don’t know what CC is weighing to get those numbers. They are absolutely incorrect. Even with skewers that is off by a lot. I have not seen campy wheel weights off by more than a few percent.

[tv_vt]

Yup, BUT probably private label hubs made in Asia and more than twice the $ of Caden..($2600cdn 'normally', now discounted, $2000CDN..$2600USD)..NOT saying these aren't great but back to the OP, yes, many wheelsets and a variety of $ and quality...:)

Uh, not sure what you used to convert to USD there, OP. Canadian dollar is worth about 75 cents US. So those wheels would cost about $1500 USD. Good time to go on a mini-vacation up north...

[NHAero]

Appreciate the correction, thanks

Yes, I have both. The bora Ultras were off about 20g and the Ones were off about 15g.

I don’t know what CC is weighing to get those numbers. They are absolutely incorrect. Even with skewers that is off by a lot. I have not seen campy wheel weights off by more than a few percent.

[NHAero]

One thing that comes up in the reviews of these Caden wheels is how well they brake. TBH, these would not be wet day wheels for me. I ride the Anderson when the roads are wet or it's likely to rain - disc brakes and fenders!

The Caden wheels I have do not have a textured brake track, BUT they stop way better than the ENVE wheels I had with a textured brake track.

If you do a bit of reading not all textured brake tracks are impressive and some smooth brake tracks wheels work really well.

.

[NHAero]

Caveat that I'm in a learning mode here, but what I'm seeing is that the lightweight alloy rims are a good bit narrower than carbon rims. Are there ones I'm missing? Am I wrong that wider is good, for both aerodynamics and for ride/rolling resistance of a given tire?

Always happy to be corrected, esp. with data!

You could have wheels w/ aluminium rims at this weight and price. As stiff, same weight, better braking and much safer than carbon clinchers.

[bigbill]

Somewhat on topic. Old Potatoe is building my son a set of race clinchers. DT 411 rims and 350 hubs 24/28. He is 5'10" and 155# and does collegiate club racing. They'll be great for the shorter circuit and criterium courses.

[oldpotatoe]

Caveat that I'm in a learning mode here, but what I'm seeing is that the lightweight alloy rims are a good bit narrower than carbon rims. Are there ones I'm missing? Am I wrong that wider is good, for both aerodynamics and for ride/rolling resistance of a given tire?

Always happy to be corrected, esp. with data!

Cuz if they get less narrow, they also get heavier. You can only make the wall thickness so thin..both for brake track and support of nipple. I think aerodynamics and ride/rolling resistance ‘may’ be better on a wider rim but small differences, very small..

[ScottW]

I pulled the tire and tube off the front this morning, and based on the weight I measured, I have a wheelset that weighs 1690g with rim tape. Going to 1500g or more (CC shows the HED at 1500 actual, and typically this is no rim tape) doesn't seem like enough of a delta. Those Decadence wheels Karl pointed me to come in around 1300 with rim tape - almost a pound, which it looks as though would be 2-3X the weight loss of the HED.

I haven't read every single post in this thread, but FWIW I have the Ardennes+ SL. Out of the box I weighed the rear at 806g naked and the front at 596g naked (no rim tape, tube, tire, or skewers). That's 1402g. So the HED-claimed weight of 1485g and the CC weight of 1500g include the skewers. Keep in mind that lots of vendors & manufacturers don't include skewers in their claimed weights.

I weigh 170 lbs and have had no issues with them, and the ride seems pretty good with 25c Corsa G+ and latex tubes.

[gasman]

I haven't read through the thread but Rolf Elan are great wheels:
https://rolfprima.com/products/elan-disc

The clincher set is 1345 gm. They are hand built here in Eugene. The hubs are WI though they call them TdF 4.4. I had a pair for years and even though I weigh 170 lbs they held up well. The Vigor model is stronger but a bit heavier and are really popular around here.

[9tubes]

My figure of 1,690g is bare wheels with rim tape. Not exactly boat anchors.

Well, sorry, that's a light boat anchor.

If you're trying to keep costs under $1000, I can give a strong recommendation for the Industry Nine I25 wheels. These tick all the boxes: mine are 1423g actual weight and they don't need rim strips. 20/24 spokes, 2/1 lacing, with straight-pull spokes. They use the same Sapim CXRay aero spokes as nearly every $2500 carbon wheelset. 19mm inner width, 27mm outer width.

Believe me you will notice more than a half-pound of weight and the aero advantage.

If you look around you'll find wheels that tick some of the optimal boxes but not all. For example, the nice Fulcrum wheels tick a few boxes but are still old-fashioned narrow rims.

They've been bombproof on my Hampsten Ti for many miles. I can't remember the last time I even thought about truing them and I weigh 25 pounds more than you.

So...light, aero, reliable and budget-friendly.




.

[Tony]

I haven't read through the thread but Rolf Elan are great wheels:
https://rolfprima.com/products/elan-disc

The clincher set is 1345 gm. They are hand built here in Eugene. The hubs are WI though they call them TdF 4.4. I had a pair for years and even though I weigh 170 lbs they held up well. The Vigor model is stronger but a bit heavier and are really popular around here.

They are actually 1380 w/o skewers.

[Tony]

Well, sorry, that's a light boat anchor.

If you're trying to keep costs under $1000, I can give a strong recommendation for the Industry Nine I25 wheels. These tick all the boxes: mine are 1423g actual weight and they don't need rim strips. 20/24 spokes, 2/1 lacing, with straight-pull spokes. They use the same Sapim CXRay aero spokes as nearly every $2500 carbon wheelset. 19mm inner width, 27mm outer width.

Believe me you will notice more than a half-pound of weight and the aero advantage.

If you look around you'll find wheels that tick some of the optimal boxes but not all. For example, the nice Fulcrum wheels tick a few boxes but are still old-fashioned narrow rims.

They've been bombproof on my Hampsten Ti for many miles. I can't remember the last time I even thought about truing them and I weigh 25 pounds more than you.

So...light, aero, reliable and budget-friendly.




.

They are 1470 grams according to reviews.

[robertbb]

Get some custom built with Easton R90 SL's. Exceptional rim.

Bonus is you get to tune the build to your requirements, around hub, spokes, lacing etc.

[9tubes]

They are 1470 grams according to reviews.

The Industry Nine i25 wheels are 1423 according to my calibrated scales. Maybe they've changed the design a bit?

[gasman]

They are actually 1380 w/o skewers.

Is that the latest iteration ?

[Tony]

Is that the latest iteration ?

This was a pair I weighted in 2015.
The pros closet has it at 1590 w/skewers
https://www.theproscloset.com/products/rolf-prima-elan-rs-aluminum-clincher-700c-wheelset

[Tony]

The Industry Nine i25 wheels are 1423 according to my calibrated scales. Maybe they've changed the design a bit?

Not sure if they have changed the design
Here is a 2018 youtube video comparison
I25 829g rear, 669g front, 1498 total without rim strips

I25 TL vs. Classic, Industry Nine I9 Road Tubeless Wheelset Comparison.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6hH30lCp98

[9tubes]

I recall that the Industry Nine wheels were pretty close to the advertised weight but I don't remember what that numbers was. If they say they are 1470g now, I'd believe them. Note that they don't need rim strips so take that into account when comparing to others.

[NHAero]

I received the wheels I purchased from nmrt (first rate seller!) and mounted the Conti GP5000 clincher tires and Spec Turbo tubes this evening. I weighed both wheelsets complete with rubber. The set on the bike is T11 hubs/HED Belgium rims/28/32 spokes/28mm Corsa G+, weighing in at 2,560g. The new set is Tune hubs/Easton R90SL rims/Pillar bladed spokes 20/28/25mm GP5000, tipping the scale at 1,990g.

570g, or 1.26 pounds, off the wheel weight. Looking forward to a test ride! Bling too, with the anodized spokes! Bare bike weight w/o pedals drops to 16.2 pounds - not feeling too drawn to carbon at the moment :)

[smokersteve]

You could have wheels w/ aluminium rims at this weight and price. As stiff, same weight, better braking and much safer than carbon clinchers.

Same weight and stiffness for 46 mm aluminum as carbon...haha that’s funny.
From my experience my carbon clinchers brake as good as the aluminum.
Safer - that also made me chuckle because no one ever bent an aluminum rim 🤦🏻*♂️

[R3awak3n]

You cant have same depth alum and carbon at same weight (or they are made out of butter). Carbon much stiffer. As far as braking, carbon is not on the same league... specially if it rains, thats when performance goes out of the window. Carbon clinchers are pretty safe nowadays but heat can delaminate rim or even blow tire. Rare but could happen and why probably he said alum is safer. Also why people feel more comfortable on carbon tubular than clincher.

[alexihnen]

Just following along...would like to pick up an older aluminum rim race wheelset for 10 speed Campy. Looks like Fulcrum Racing 1, or an Easton EA90 set. I’d be happy to find something 10+ yrs old if in good shape. For Shimano equines bikes I feel like my choice is easy - many nice Dura Ace wheelsets out there.

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[tuscanyswe]

If u are looking for an older set dont get the eastons. The spokes were braking left n right on those older EA90 wheels.

[doomridesout]

Seconded that my top picks in light alloy rim brake wheels are still Fulcrum Zero or DA C24. The Fulcrum is a bit stiffer and a bit heavier, the DA rides so feathery at the rim and smooth. System wheels are better than handbuilt with these parameters, IMO.


Just following along...would like to pick up an older aluminum rim race wheelset for 10 speed Campy. Looks like Fulcrum Racing 1, or an Easton EA90 set. I’d be happy to find something 10+ yrs old if in good shape. For Shimano equines bikes I feel like my choice is easy - many nice Dura Ace wheelsets out there.

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[oldpotatoe]

Seconded that my top picks in light alloy rim brake wheels are still Fulcrum Zero or DA C24. The Fulcrum is a bit stiffer and a bit heavier, the DA rides so feathery at the rim and smooth. System wheels are better than handbuilt with these parameters, IMO.

Which 'parameters' are those? Weight? Price? "Feel"?

DT350 laced to DT411 with 'thin' spokes are 'about' 1490g..DA 1412g(claimed) and about $150 more than the above...

PLUS, don't expect shimano(or Campag/Fulcrum) to have replacement spokes or rims about the time you are wearing these out..:eek:

[tuxbailey]

Which 'parameters' are those? Weight? Price? "Feel"?

DT350 laced to DT411 with 'thin' spokes are 'about' 1490g..DA 1412g(claimed) and about $150 more than the above...

PLUS, don't expect shimano(or Campag/Fulcrum) to have replacement spokes or rims about the time you are wearing these out..:eek:

How much would something like that cost? This is for future reference. I plan to to get a nicer set wheels once I hit my weight loss target and the C24 is one of my possible options based on what I read here. I really don't know much about wheels. The current generation of C24 is about under $1K new. I have seen them in the classifieds recently for much less.

I currently weigh about 187# and I will be thinking about wheels once I get under 170#. In other word, it may never happen :) But I am not a fast rider or plan to ever try to be a racer so aero wheel is probably never in the cards (they do look cool.) So lighter, livelier, climbing set of clinchers are probably what I will be looking for.

[oldpotatoe]

How much would something like that cost? This is for future reference. I plan to to get a nicer set wheels once I hit my weight loss target and the C24 is one of my possible options based on what I read here. I really don't know much about wheels. The current generation of C24 is about under $1K new. I have seen them in the classifieds recently for much less.

I currently weigh about 187# and I will be thinking about wheels once I get under 170#. In other word, it may never happen :) But I am not a fast rider or plan to ever try to be a racer so aero wheel is probably never in the cards (they do look cool.) So lighter, livelier, climbing set of clinchers are probably what I will be looking for.

From me, about $675 plus shipping...

[tuxbailey]

From me, about $675 plus shipping...

Thanks. You are definitely one of the source I would check before buying anything.

[bikinchris]

Rolf Elan is 1345 grams in rim brake version.

[mcteague]

I received the wheels I purchased from nmrt (first rate seller!) and mounted the Conti GP5000 clincher tires and Spec Turbo tubes this evening. I weighed both wheelsets complete with rubber. The set on the bike is T11 hubs/HED Belgium rims/28/32 spokes/28mm Corsa G+, weighing in at 2,560g. The new set is Tune hubs/Easton R90SL rims/Pillar bladed spokes 20/28/25mm GP5000, tipping the scale at 1,990g.

570g, or 1.26 pounds, off the wheel weight. Looking forward to a test ride! Bling too, with the anodized spokes! Bare bike weight w/o pedals drops to 16.2 pounds - not feeling too drawn to carbon at the moment :)

Over one pound lighter? Your original wheels were already top quality. I’d be curious to see where the weight savings came from as each component does not seem a whole lot lighter.

Tim

[9tubes]

Rolf Elan is 1345 grams in rim brake version.

Rolf Elan has round spokes and a non-aero rim shape. So they might be great for uphill time trials but not so good as all-around wheels.



.

[Tony]

Rolf Elan is 1345 grams in rim brake version.

They are actually 1380 w/o skewers. This was a pair I weighted in 2015.
The pros closet has it at 1590 w/skewers
https://www.theproscloset.com/produc...-700c-wheelset

[NHAero]

Each component - rims, spokes, hubs, tubes, tires, skewers - are lighter.
Bare wheelsets without skewers, tires and tubes were 1,690g and 1,384g.
Tires were 530g and 411g.
Skewers were 87g and 45g.
Add these for a subtotal of 467g savings, so I must have saved 103g by going to the Spesh Turbo tubes (plausible, they were just below 150g for both, the tubes in the other wheelset could be 120g each.)




QUOTE=mcteague;2668612]Over one pound lighter? Your original wheels were already top quality. I’d be curious to see where the weight savings came from as each component does not seem a whole lot lighter.

Tim[/QUOTE]

[robertbb]

DT350 laced to DT411 with 'thin' spokes are 'about' 1490g..



Umm.. with what spokes, and in what count? That is way too light.

[NHAero]

Seems that way to me also. Peter, you built me a wheelset with DT RR411 rims, 24/28 Sapim Race spokes, and WI T11 hubs (published weight 72g lighter than DT350 Classic Road hubs). That wheelset was 60g lighter than the T11/Belgium set I refer to at the start of this thread, or about 1,630g taped.

I've not weighed the individual bits - hubs, spokes, rims - so I don't know which mfgrs publish optimistic weights, but it seems to me some do, some don't. I have a hanging digital scale, and a digital kitchen scale, and they agree within less than one percent on the whole wheel measurements. If they are off, at least my comparative measurements should be good.

The Fairwheel Bikes wheelset I just bought from nmrt weighs 1,382-1,384g taped. Their website shows this wheelset, and claims 1,354g bare. So two wheels' worth of tubeless tape is adding 28-30g, which seems plausible.

Umm.. with what spokes, and in what count? That is way too light.

[R3awak3n]

I think it would be possible to do sub 1500 with 350 and the dts but would have to be a 24 spoke build with cxrays or something that weights less than 5g a spoke.

[soulspinner]

for comparison my dt 411 32 x 28 dt swiss 240 at 1470 grams. I weigh 170 and put out no watts in my old age.

[saab2000]

The nicest aspect of the T11 relative to the DT-Swiss is the reduction in noise. I've got a set I'll be having built up soon and I very much enjoy the very light, precise freewheeling sound compared to the buzz of the DT-Swiss, which are admittedly muted compared to some others.

Sorry for the thread drift but that's a factor for me.

[oldpotatoe]

Umm.. with what spokes, and in what count? That is way too light.

Sapim Laser, Squorx alloy nipples. 20h radial front, 24h, 2cross rear.
think it would be possible to do sub 1500 with 350 and the dts but would have to be a 24 spoke build with cxrays or something that weights less than 5g a spoke.

Yup, trying to compare with DA C24 wheels..lower spoke count and thin spokes. DA is 21(?)F and 24R..
The nicest aspect of the T11 relative to the DT-Swiss is the reduction in noise. I've got a set I'll be having built up soon and I very much enjoy the very light, precise freewheeling sound compared to the buzz of the DT-Swiss, which are admittedly muted compared to some others.

Sorry for the thread drift but that's a factor for me.

Not a thread drift at all..OP was asking about a light clincher wheelset. Lots of things go into that decision..weight, PRICE, hubset chosen and why(noise!), reliability, ease of finding replacement spokes and rims in the future..etc...

[Davist]

The nicest aspect of the T11 relative to the DT-Swiss is the reduction in noise. I've got a set I'll be having built up soon and I very much enjoy the very light, precise freewheeling sound compared to the buzz of the DT-Swiss, which are admittedly muted compared to some others.

Sorry for the thread drift but that's a factor for me.

DT Swiss are loud? put more "special grease" in the star ratchet, mine are practically silent..

[saab2000]

DT Swiss are loud? put more "special grease" in the star ratchet, mine are practically silent..

Not loud loud, but louder than my WI hubs.

They're not bad actually. I have two sets, one set of the 240s and a newer set of their gravel wheels. The gravel wheels are quieter.

It's just a personal nitpick and they're nowhere near as obnoxious to my ears as Chris Kings or Industry 9s.

[oldpotatoe]

Not loud loud, but louder than my WI hubs.

They're not bad actually. I have two sets, one set of the 240s and a newer set of their gravel wheels. The gravel wheels are quieter.

It's just a personal nitpick and they're nowhere near as obnoxious to my ears as Chris Kings or Industry 9s.

I think another point about WI hubs, and I really like them, particularly the titanium FHB BUT.."no such thing as a free lunch"..$275 or so for DT350..$480 or so for WI...AND not a huge fan of how you adjust WI hubs..with those wee set screws screwed into a 'rather' soft axle..

BUT lots of great choices in hubs these days...and rims..YUP, somewhat 'easier' to just get a 'wheelouttabox', but nice to have a 'custom' option..like a bike frame..After all, wheels are probably the second most important aspect of a 'bike'...Difference-'custom' wheels are often less $ than 'wheelsouttabox', unlike a custom frame which is often more $. :)

[mcteague]

Each component - rims, spokes, hubs, tubes, tires, skewers - are lighter.
Bare wheelsets without skewers, tires and tubes were 1,690g and 1,384g.
Tires were 530g and 411g.
Skewers were 87g and 45g.
Add these for a subtotal of 467g savings, so I must have saved 103g by going to the Spesh Turbo tubes (plausible, they were just below 150g for both, the tubes in the other wheelset could be 120g each.)




QUOTE=mcteague;2668612]Over one pound lighter? Your original wheels were already top quality. I’d be curious to see where the weight savings came from as each component does not seem a whole lot lighter.

Tim

According to their respective websites, the Easton rim is 10 grams lighter than the HED. Tune hubs are 91 gms less and I figure 12 fewer spokes at about 60 gms. That comes to 161 grms less weight. I'm just wondering how you ended up with 306 gms less for the pair.

Tim

[Tony]

I think another point about WI hubs, and I really like them, particularly the titanium FHB BUT.."no such thing as a free lunch"..$275 or so for DT350..$480 or so for WI...AND not a huge fan of how you adjust WI hubs..with those wee set screws screwed into a 'rather' soft axle..

BUT lots of great choices in hubs these days...and rims..YUP, somewhat 'easier' to just get a 'wheelouttabox', but nice to have a 'custom' option..like a bike frame..After all, wheels are probably the second most important aspect of a 'bike'...Difference-'custom' wheels are often less $ than 'wheelsouttabox', unlike a custom frame which is often more $. :)

Same, poor design. Also water has easy access through the freehub to contaminate bearings.

[NHAero]

Interesting, isn't it?
Guessing the Pillar spokes are lighter, as well as there being fewer.
Also guessing that some manufacturers published weights are optimistic.

What else can I tell you? I weighed them on the same scales.

According to their respective websites, the Easton rim is 10 grams lighter than the HED. Tune hubs are 91 gms less and I figure 12 fewer spokes at about 60 gms. That comes to 161 grms less weight. I'm just wondering how you ended up with 306 gms less for the pair.

Tim

[azrider]

have had two sets of DA C24s. stellar wheels.

light, bullet-proof, not that expensive...

Dura Ace C24s, great wheels..

I’d also agree on the C24’s or the C35’. I have both in rim brake versions. Carbon rims with aluminum brake tracks, no need for carbon pads. There’s nothing quite like the sublime quality of Dura Ace cup and cone ball bearing hubs. Feel like silk. Beautiful and they often show up here used for very reasonable prices. Easy to adjust and if taken care of will last many, many miles.ease looked brand new..

To me, it is hard to beat the combination of lightweight, stiffness and durability that the Dura Ace C24 wheels offer. .

Another C24 fan here..........they're a great 'value' wheelset when you can find good used set

[NHAero]

Took the Fairwheel Bikes wheelset for a spin today. On a route I do regularly, I recorded perhaps my fastest time. 0.8 mph faster than the same ride, in similar conditions, on Monday. Just over 45 miles, about 1,800' vertical.

The 25mm tires at 5 psi higher than the 28mm tires on the other wheels are definitely a harsher ride, only noticeable on the SUP where there a periodic transverse cracks.

Wheels look awesome on the bike too 😊

[Davist]

Not loud loud, but louder than my WI hubs.

They're not bad actually. I have two sets, one set of the 240s and a newer set of their gravel wheels. The gravel wheels are quieter.

It's just a personal nitpick and they're nowhere near as obnoxious to my ears as Chris Kings or Industry 9s.

ah, understood.. how are the gravel wheels? which are they? I have 2 sets of 350s just regreased the ratchet, completely silent for the next couple months :)

[robertbb]

It's really interesting to me how there are "issues" with all mainstream aftermarket hubs... which is a shame because there are some excellent rims available.

DT240's have a poor geometry for a stiff rear wheel, necessitating higher spoke count. The freehub is made of swiss cheese, notches easily... and only 18 engagement points is poor for a hub at its pricepoint.

WI have poor design as to bearing wear and adjustment.

Miche Primato Syntesi are excellent... stiff, easy to service and adjust, but also have a softish freehub and are heavy.

Tune hubs aren't easily serviceable and have a pretty fiddly preload system.

CK doesn't do Campy anymore. Are obnoxiously loud anyway.

I'm sure I'm missing a few brands here.

If only Campy (And Shimano) hubs were available in wider drillings...

[NHAero]

I have two wheelsets with WI hubs, T11 and MI6 disc. I agree with the comments about setting preload, and how the bearings are vulnerable to water. The small upside is that it's really simple to replace the bearings and when I have done so I get ones with better seals than the stock bearings.

No question that my older Shimano 9 speed hubs, road and MTB, just keep on working perfectly with no maintenance.


It's really interesting to me how there are "issues" with all mainstream aftermarket hubs... which is a shame because there are some excellent rims available.

DT240's have a poor geometry for a stiff rear wheel, necessitating higher spoke count. The freehub is made of swiss cheese, notches easily... and only 18 engagement points is poor for a hub at its pricepoint.

WI have poor design as to bearing wear and adjustment.

Miche Primato Syntesi are excellent... stiff, easy to service and adjust, but also have a softish freehub and are heavy.

Tune hubs aren't easily serviceable and have a pretty fiddly preload system.

CK doesn't do Campy anymore. Are obnoxiously loud anyway.

I'm sure I'm missing a few brands here.

If only Campy (And Shimano) hubs were available in wider drillings...

[Tony]

It's really interesting to me how there are "issues" with all mainstream aftermarket hubs... which is a shame because there are some excellent rims available.

DT240's have a poor geometry for a stiff rear wheel, necessitating higher spoke count. The freehub is made of swiss cheese, notches easily... and only 18 engagement points is poor for a hub at its pricepoint.

WI have poor design as to bearing wear and adjustment.

Miche Primato Syntesi are excellent... stiff, easy to service and adjust, but also have a softish freehub and are heavy.

Tune hubs aren't easily serviceable and have a pretty fiddly preload system.

CK doesn't do Campy anymore. Are obnoxiously loud anyway.

I'm sure I'm missing a few brands here.

If only Campy (And Shimano) hubs were available in wider drillings...

Tune hubs use washers to set the preload, not difficult, easy.

[fogrider]

Thanks for starting this thread, I've been thinking long and hard about lightweight clinchers. I've been riding carbon tubulars and want to go clinchers for my next bike. But the weight has got to be close. When I first rode tubulars, they were aluminum and weighed in around 1500 grams and I was able to climb 1 cog smaller, when I went to carbon tubulars, they were 1150 grams and it was another cog smaller on the same climb. I then got 44mm deep carbon tubulars and 1250 grams. I have the low profile carbon tubulars on a steel bike which comes in just over 17 pounds and it climbs like a dream.

I rode tubies in college, not looking to go back. Not interested in tubeless either.

Peter, like a lot of the people on this board, I'm interested in new experiences. I've already said I know this isn't going to make me faster in any measurable way, and as far as coffee shop points, I don't spend much time at coffee shops, and I mostly ride alone. Gonna be hard to find people to brag to. Even when it's "parked", I don't have people noticing the FF. I get a fair bit of notice with the Anderson which I think comes from the shiny metal fenders completing the package of what is a beautiful bike. The FF, especially being painted, is much more stealth.

After reading all the responses on the thread I started on light carbon bikes, I think I'm not missing much there in terms of ride experience. Every time I go out on the Firefly I just love that bike, and chant, I am not worthy. I've had some back and forth with Kevin at FF (they are SO responsive) and I've learned some more about FF #275. It was built for a heavier and more powerful rider, and he'd lighten up the frame if they built me a custom, but that's where it doesn't seem like the grams vs $ is worthwhile. It's not going to make the bike smoother over bumpy surfaces than it is now in any perceivable way, and it's very doubtful I'd save as much weight as is possible on the wheels, where conventional wisdom has always said is the best place to take the grams off (is that still accepted?)

Thanks all who have contributed to this thread so far, really enlightening :)

[skouri1]

I think if you're able to climb a harder cog it has very little to do with the wheelset weight. Really think it must be psychological. psychological effects can be real to an extent. I mean, we're talking about what--the weight of an apple distributed across two spinning wheels when most of your energy must be dedicated to fighting gravity's effects on your weight+bike system weight .
I too like a lighter wheel, maybe i would have to try something in the 1200 gram range / tubular to experience what you're describing etc, but it would be interesting to see what actual effects wheel weight has on climb time /gearing with the same power output...i'm not really convinced that it's any more than removing 300 g from anywhere else. Please correct me if anyone has evidence/experience. I feel like GCN must have done a study :)

[tuscanyswe]

I think if you're able to climb a harder cog it has very little to do with the wheelset weight. Really think it must be psychological. psychological effects can be real to an extent. I mean, we're talking about what--the weight of an apple distributed across two spinning wheels when most of your energy must be dedicated to fighting gravity's effects on your weight+bike system weight .
I too like a lighter wheel, maybe i would have to try something in the 1200 gram range / tubular etc, but it would be interesting to see what actual effects it has on climb time or ease...i'm not really convinced that it's any more than removing 300 g from anywhere else. Please correct me if anyone has evidence/experience. I feel like GCN must have done a study :)

Know what you mean but it does not necessarily mean you are pushing the same cadence on the smaller sprocket. Just that you now prefer it and the cadence you are able to push it at vs the larger cog cadence.

[robertbb]

Please correct me if anyone has evidence/experience. I feel like GCN must have done a study :)

We've got a climb a few hours out of the city - 20k climb, 1000m elevation, about 5.5% average gradient.

When I went out there a few years ago, I brought my carbon tubulars (1180g). Had done the climb a few times before on clinchers circa ~1500g, and needed a 12-32 cog... the 32 on certain stretches in particular. Now, I actually forgot to bring the cassette with me because I left in a hurry, and when I got there I realised I only had a 12-29.

Long story short... I spent most of the climb in the 27... went into the 29 once or twice... but that's it.

TLDR; 1200g wheels really do climb better that 1500g wheels, particularly if that saving is at the rim.

I know the "science" says that's BS. But I felt it for sure.

[oldpotatoe]

robertbb writes-
DT240's have a poor geometry for a stiff rear wheel, necessitating higher spoke count.

I guess you are talking about 4mm or so less LH center to flange in rear DT240.

In actual practice(and I have built hundreds of DT240/350 rear wheels, even low(24H) spoke count), compared to say Campagnolo(35.16mm) and DA(36.5mm), it means not a lot. It certainly doesn't mean you can't build a low spoke count, 'stiff' rear wheel with an appropriate rim and appropriate spokes on a DT240 hub..
If only Campy (And Shimano) hubs were available in wider drillings...

Agree with Campag, but DA hubs are available in 20/24/28/32 fronts and 24/28/32 rears..pretty sure.

[mcteague]

We've got a climb a few hours out of the city - 20k climb, 1000m elevation, about 5.5% average gradient.

When I went out there a few years ago, I brought my carbon tubulars (1180g). Had done the climb a few times before on clinchers circa ~1500g, and needed a 12-32 cog... the 32 on certain stretches in particular. Now, I actually forgot to bring the cassette with me because I left in a hurry, and when I got there I realised I only had a 12-29.

Long story short... I spent most of the climb in the 27... went into the 29 once or twice... but that's it.

TLDR; 1200g wheels really do climb better that 1500g wheels, particularly if that saving is at the rim.

I know the "science" says that's BS. But I felt it for sure.

And, folks, that is were we are today. I felt something so the facts mean nothing. Don't count out how strong the placebo effect can be. While blind testing on a bike can be fraught with difficulty, using a power meter can help shed light. Under the same conditions, riding the same power, ride up the hill with each set of wheels and compare the times. To really make it more accurate several runs each would need to be done.

Tim

[colker]

Thanks for starting this thread, I've been thinking long and hard about lightweight clinchers. I've been riding carbon tubulars and want to go clinchers for my next bike. But the weight has got to be close. When I first rode tubulars, they were aluminum and weighed in around 1500 grams and I was able to climb 1 cog smaller, when I went to carbon tubulars, they were 1150 grams and it was another cog smaller on the same climb. I then got 44mm deep carbon tubulars and 1250 grams. I have the low profile carbon tubulars on a steel bike which comes in just over 17 pounds and it climbs like a dream.

Out of curiosity: why go from carbon tubulars to carbon clinchers? Clinchers add complication.

[oldpotatoe]

I think if you're able to climb a harder cog it has very little to do with the wheelset weight. Really think it must be psychological. psychological effects can be real to an extent. I mean, we're talking about what--the weight of an apple distributed across two spinning wheels when most of your energy must be dedicated to fighting gravity's effects on your weight+bike system weight .
I too like a lighter wheel, maybe i would have to try something in the 1200 gram range / tubular to experience what you're describing etc, but it would be interesting to see what actual effects wheel weight has on climb time /gearing with the same power output...i'm not really convinced that it's any more than removing 300 g from anywhere else. Please correct me if anyone has evidence/experience. I feel like GCN must have done a study :)

You're not wrong. The energy to 'accelerate' a bike and rider 'package' is the mass of the bike and rider. Where the weight is doesn't mean anything. The so-called 'flywheel effect' of spinning wheels, altho measurable, is teeny, tiny and lost in the noise.
When a lot of riders mention, 'ease to spin up', they are feeling the stiffness of the wheel..mainly carbon rims or aluminum spokes or both, not the 200-300 gram of weight savings..on that 75,000+++ gram rider and bike 'package'..
TLDR; 1200g wheels really do climb better that 1500g wheels, particularly if that saving is at the rim.

I know the "science" says that's BS. But I felt it for sure.
Really think it must be psychological. psychological effects can be real to an extent

And there ya have it..BTW-I climb much better on my Merckx, with Campagnolo Lambda tubulars than on my Moots with with Mavic Mach2CDs:eek:Merckx is 2 pounds heavier..

[colker]

You're not wrong. The energy to 'accelerate' a bike and rider 'package' is the mass of the bike and rider. Where the weight is doesn't mean anything. The so-called 'flywheel effect' of spinning wheels, altho measurable, is teeny, tiny and lost in the noise.
When a lot of riders mention, 'ease to spin up', they are feeling the stiffness of the wheel..mainly carbon rims or aluminum spokes or both, not the 200-300 gram of weight savings..on that 75,000+++ gram rider and bike 'package'..



And there ya have it..BTW-I climb much better on my Merckx, with Campagnolo Lambda tubulars than on my Moots with with Mavic Mach2CDs:eek:Merckx is 2 pounds heavier..

That´s my experience as well. Stiffness makes the huge diference.

[NHAero]

300g anywhere on the bike + rider is the same as far as power required for a given climb. And I don't really think I was faster yesterday because of the new wheels. If the effect is just psychological, I'll see that over time as I repeat rides. I was just really surprised to hit the time I did yesterday on a 32 mile route I've done multiple times.

@Tim - I'd like to know where the 306g really are in the weight difference between the two wheelsets, but I'd have to take them apart to see, and weigh the component parts. When I had the two wheelsets with tires tubes and skewers all together, the weight difference was 570g. Same scale. I'm open to hearing where errors crept into that process.

[jm714]

https://www.hambini.com/testing-to-find-the-fastest-bicycle-wheel-hubs/

[fogrider]

Out of curiosity: why go from carbon tubulars to carbon clinchers? Clinchers add complication.

I've been running tubeless on my gravel bike for the last couple years and it's been great! And for dirt, it's incredible, for road, it's not bad. I wanta see how tubeless will be in a wide road tire...say 28mm. I'm thinking wheels around 1350g would be about would be about right.

I completely understand the concept of a few grams being a tiny part of the overall weight of rider and bike. But if you slap a 1700 gram wheelset on your bike and ride it hard, then a 1100 gram wheelset and ride it hard...if you tell me there is no diff., then I'll say you didn't ride it hard. I'm not talking about time on a sprint or climb...I'm talking about ride feel. And lets say both are stiff...I've ridden flexy wheels back in the day...not doing that anymore. I'm interested in a wheelset that helps a bike to feel and ride great.