body camera footage from seminole county arrest of cyclist

[bthornt]

Here's the link: https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/02/11/body-camera-video-shows-arrest-of-18-year-old-cyclist-on-fleeing-resisting-charges/

The audio is a little messed up. There is no audio for the first 30 seconds or so, and when the 2 officers converse the audio is turned off. Also, there are 2 videos. The top video is about 25 minutes long, then there's a shorter version towards the bottom.

Now that I have seen this footage, I would have to say that I would not have taken this path if I was the sheriff. I think a warning would have been more than adequate.

[robt57]

Here's the link: ...body-camera-video-shows-arrest-of-18-year-old-cyclist-on-fleeing-resisting-charges

"The deputy arrested Lopez for resisting arrest without violence and fleeing and eluding a law enforcement officer."

Calling BS overcharge. If the kid had sprinted away actually eluding, then yeah. Sounds like either some tude or bigotry are possible precipitations.

Then the cop tears up a tax payer asset, blows thru a stop sign himself for the crime of the century on fleeing human powered vehicles.

Does FL have the Idaho/Oregon Cyclist "Stop/Roll" law. They weren't even railing the turn, rather seemed cautious to me.

Be surprised if the DA bothers...

Time for a new bike with the settlement money I say!!!

[R3awak3n]

this is a huge joke. what a waste of time and money. Not gonna teach anyone a lesson and bring nothing positive to the world

[azrider]

Tough one. I certainly don't think an arrest was warranted but cyclist certainly wasn't helping himself in anyway either.

a) broke law by blowing through stop sign
b) backtalks the officer before he's even out of his truck
c) continues to give the arresting officer attitude and cussing

Hopefully judge issues misdemeanor ticket and it's over with.

[shoota]

Typical FL problems. The cop mis-remembered so many things.

[FlashUNC]

Power tripping cop. What a shock.

[bicycletricycle]

egomaniac hall monitor a hole cops. you must respect their authority or else, maybe they could go investigate some real crime?

[Louis]

Power tripping cop. What a shock.

In my personal experience (multiple times for me) this happens way, way too often. Some of them are perfectly normal guys, but some are nuts.

[CAAD]

Again it's a bull**** intersection. Absolutely no traffic at all at that time of the morning. Yet just up the road is a major state road with cars and dump trucks going 60+ in a 45 zone. These two officers have been stalking this corner for months for whatever reason.

[KarlC]

power tripping cop. What a shock.

+1

.

[robt57]

https://floridacyclinglaw.com/blog/archives/florida-needs-to-adopt-idaho-stop-law

Now that we finally got this here in OR... Should be all states IMO.

What those kids did fit this on the money. They showed some caution, and proceeded over an empty intersection which no other vehicle had right of way.

They had their line and direction in sight, not a parked car with people standing in the street off to the right...

In the original thread, I posted a pic of Cartman/Southpark on Barney Fife mode...

[azrider]

https://floridacyclinglaw.com/blog/archives/florida-needs-to-adopt-idaho-stop-law

Now that we finally got this here in OR... Should be all states IMO.

What those kids did fit this on the money. They showed some caution, and proceeded over an empty intersection.

In the original thread, I posted a pic of Cartman/Southpark on Barney Fife mode...

Interesting. I was about to ask what states recognize that but found it after quick search

The following states observe some form or another of the Idaho Stop:

Arizona
Colorado
Delaware
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Kansas
Minnesota
Missouri
Nevada
Oregon

[tuscanyswe]

So as most suspected. The cops a jerk.

[echappist]

just who exactly set it at $8,500 in this case?

What a travesty.

Calling BS overcharge. If the kid had sprinted away actually eluding, then yeah. Sounds like either some tude or bigotry are possible precipitations.

Then the cop tears up a tax payer asset, blows thru a stop sign himself for the crime of the century on fleeing human powered vehicles.

Does FL have the Idaho/Oregon Cyclist "Stop/Roll" law. They weren't even railing the turn, rather seemed cautious to me.

Be surprised if the DA bothers...

Time for a new bike with the settlement money I say!!!
and probably put tax payers on the hook for the settlement to be paid...

[AngryScientist]

ugh; that video was painful to watch in parts.

i hope that officer's supervisor dresses him down for poor judgement.

officer could have had a chance to have a positive impact once he found out it was a father/minor son scenario; pulled dad aside and told him he needs to teach son to obey the rules of the road and ride safely, then let everyone go home.

MAYBE a ticket was warranted.

arrest? not even close to necessary in this case.

[ftf]

Well I'm actually shocked, SHOCKED I tell you that they actually released the video.


Everything else is what is expected.

[ftf]

ugh; that video was painful to watch in parts.

i hope that officer's supervisor dresses him down for poor judgement.



By dressed down, I hope you mean fired.

[Louis]

Every time I hear about something like this I shudder to think of what things must have been like in the 50's and 60's for black teenagers in the South.

Although we've all heard the Emmett Till story, and that's just one of many.

[robt57]

Wow, that many? I googled, poorly apparently. Thanks for posting this.

I can tell you, only as of 1/01/2020 @ PDX.

Interesting. I was about to ask what states recognize that but found it after quick search:

The following states observe some form or another of the Idaho Stop:

Arizona
Colorado
Delaware
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Kansas
Minnesota
Missouri
Nevada
Oregon

[soulspinner]

ugh; that video was painful to watch in parts.

i hope that officer's supervisor dresses him down for poor judgement.

officer could have had a chance to have a positive impact once he found out it was a father/minor son scenario; pulled dad aside and told him he needs to teach son to obey the rules of the road and ride safely, then let everyone go home.

MAYBE a ticket was warranted.

arrest? not even close to necessary in this case.

+1...wow. That cop should end up in legal trouble.

[robt57]

By dressed down, I hope you mean fired.

Hell get fired alright when he starts costing the muni huge in settlement moneys.

[robt57]

Well I'm actually shocked, SHOCKED I tell you that they actually released the video.


Everything else is what is expected.

Except maybe the Nixon Style Audio redactions... ;)


We will beat out chests and this topic to death I predict. LOL

[Louis]

Except maybe the Nixon Style Audio redactions... ;)


I think Rose Mary Woods works for the Seminole Cty Police Dept.

[robt57]

I think Rose Mary Woods works for the Seminole Cty Police Dept.

Fun fact, Nixon was our neighbor in Parkridge, NJ in the early 80s.
Not that they'd let the likes of me past the gate @ the gated Sub-division 5 lots up...


Sorry for the over postings y'all. Coffee and cycling outrage fueled. [being married to to the quintessential 'Libra' for near 40 years not withstanding.]

[parris]

I'm watching the video now. From what I'm seeing the response by LEO is pretty horrible. I know that if my boss saw this with one of our HP deputies THAT deputy wouldn't be in a good place...

WOW and disgusted is all I can come up with right now.

This makes me angry.

[robt57]

I once had a young cop pull his gun on me, and do the toss in the car in cuff offs to the police station. Where after a few minutes of me hearing his command Sgt screaming at him, the cop came out and apologized to me and they drove me back to my car.

I so dislike looking down the barrel of a loaded gun.

They had me sign a false arrest wavier. Which my lawyer said just proved it happened. But also said there is no remedy per say for no damages. In other words there is no bank for him to get a % of I took it. ;)

[William]

I'm watching the video now. From what I'm seeing the response by LEO is pretty horrible. I know that if my boss saw this with one of our HP deputies THAT deputy wouldn't be in a good place...

WOW and disgusted is all I can come up with right now.

This makes me angry.


Have to agree with you, that was a very poor response.





W.

[steamer]

Sheriff@seminolesheriff.org
Bmatre@seminolesheriff.org

[Bentley]

Truthfully, it’s more about folks not wanting cyclist on the road. This “Officer” clearly was more upset about something other than two cyclists rolling thru an intersection. A reasonable response is to issue a ticket for failing to stop at the stop sign, reasonable only because the law requires cyclist and motorists to stop. The idea that the kid understood that “weak” hand gesture is not credible.

I have ridden in charity rides following a hurricane where “trash” was piled on the bike path forcing me and others to ride in the road, a number of motorists got “angry” that we were holding them up, I waved down a policeman that proceeded to tell me that I was breaking the law. When the police do not enforce the law then the safety of cyclists is compromised, but it has to work both ways.

[gibbo]

Cops are people, some good, some bad, just like all of us. This one obviously should not be allowed to work in law enforcement. People in a position of power need to be help to high standard for the sake of the community. This is a sad example of a person in a position of power abusing the trust society puts in them :-(
Anyone who has been on the receiving end of a bad cop being an A-hole knows it changes how you feel towards authority for a long long time. I really hope this is not just swept under the carpet and everyone just shrugs their shoulders and moves on.....

[BobO]

Interesting. I was about to ask what states recognize that but found it after quick search



AZs iteration of the Idaho stop is basically nothing from my understanding. Basically we can go through a red at an intersection with no traffic only when the sensors don't register our presence. Good luck finding a cop who will agree with your decision to use that part of the law, especially in Oro Valley.

[robt57]

Cops are people, some good, some bad, just like all of us.

AND, I know they chose this line of work. But! having to deal with people usually at their worst for the most part, and folks that want to kill you just because [pick a reason]...

Well that can't have any kind of positive effect on ones position towards fellow man/woman et al.

Easier the spout 'professionalism' than to be professional all the time it seems.

[fiamme red]

The deputy kept saying that the cyclist had committed a felony. Is this really a felony, not a misdemeanor?

[BobO]

The deputy kept saying that the cyclist had committed a felony. Is this really a felony, not a misdemeanor?

Traffic offense is neither.

[fiamme red]

Traffic offense is neither.I meant for not pulling over when demanded to do so, which the deputy claimed was a felony.

[tomato coupe]

The deputy kept saying that the cyclist had committed a felony. Is this really a felony, not a misdemeanor?

Resisting arrest can be a felony.

[HenryA]

Me: (to DA)
You looked at the video yet?

DA:
Yes I did. Can’t see any evading. I’m going to dismiss this, its embarrassing.

Me:
Great, write it up.

[AngryScientist]

Resisting arrest can be a felony.

i can just see how the court proceedings will go:

judge: "son, motorcycles can be very dangerous, and evading an officer puts everyones lives in danger"

awkward silence

judge: "wait, this happened on a bicycle?? the kind you pedal?.....officer dumdum, are you suggesting this young man was attempting to make a run for it on a bicycle when you were in your truck?"

haha

seriously though, the frustrating part is that 18 year olds do really, really stupid, dangerous, reckless illegal stuff all the time. this is the hill the officer decides to make a stand? a kid riding cycles with his dad and other middle aged dudes?

[fiamme red]

I can't understand why he arrested one cyclist and let the other go. Both ran the stop sign, and neither came to a stop until the cop pulled over in front of both of them.

Deputy, addressing the second cyclist: "Did you stop for the sign?"
"Yes, I did." (Other cyclists: "Yes, he did.")
"All right, you're good then."

[BobO]

Resisting arrest can be a felony.

Nothing I saw looks like resisting. Calling this fleeing is also thin. More like a misunderstanding. Certainly not something that would be prosecuted as a felony, if at all. This looks like a simple failure to stop for a sign with heavy handed enforcement.

With that said, if this were my kid he'd get grounded for running the stop sign.

[General69]

I was pulled over for running a red light In Wheaton, IL. Had to take a day off work and cop showed to court. Judge heard my story, laughed, and told me to pay half of $100 fine. This was at 11pm with no cars in sight.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[dddd]

Let me get this outta the way, Louis, congrat's for trying to make this an ethnic/racial thread or whatever and get another discussion closed.

To me, everything I saw suggests that the perp did indeed attempt to flee and then did also resist arrest, after cursing at the cop no less.

I felt bad for the "kid"'s father. However, the claim that Junior needed medicine and (ostensibly) was recovering from a brain tumor is here-say that needs to be verified. People getting arrested, as well as their associates, are very often quite creative in their narratives, and quite prone to exaggeration! Young Lopez will have his day before the court. I hope that he appreciates this right!

The bike group did the defendant no favors by heckling the process, crowding in and making communication with the defendant difficult.

The cop was almost certainly assigned to the particular intersection in response to complaints, just like it works in my neighborhood. A lot of motorists and a few cyclists get off easy when they make the officer's job easy and safe instead of difficult, disruptive to the neighborhood, costly, and dangerous.
I've seen what happens to the ones who talk back or try to sneak away and it sure didn't matter what their ethnicity was!!! This young rider by appearances did both!
Some of you are acting like he was unnecessarily beaten. He wasn't.

As cyclists, remember that the traffic cops are in effect a psychological buffer between angry motorists and us. Imagine how things would be if all motorists saw cyclists never being held accountable at all for all kinds of traffic offenses that affect their commutes? Tacks left in the bike lane (or worse), anyone?

I haven't been through the intersection in question, so I can't say what issues might result from cyclists riding through as these guys did.
The cop did also run a stop sign, but that's part of any pursuit, big or small.

Some here are speculating that the cop's actions will make him look bad before his bosses or result in the sort of pay-out that municipalities too often have to shell out, but can we first wait to hear what the judge has to say after being presented with ALL of the evidence? If the guy really is suffering from a brain tumor, perhaps his arrest record will be expunged, but perhaps also his own safety on the road should come up as a factor in deciding the disposition (like, for his own good, if he is neurologically impaired).

[jamesdak]

I guess I watched a different video than most of you. He blew the stop sign, he's wrong, he didn't pull over, he's wrong, he lied and said I didn't hear you, he's wrong, the bike "gang" confronting the cop, they're wrong. All the B.S. being spouted by others most likely escalated the situation. Let me ask you all this. When you are riding on the road and an emergency vehicle comes by with lights and siren on what do you do? I stop and put a foot down no matter what side of the road I'm on since in my mind that's the same as pulling over to let an emergency vehicle through. So....even if he "really" thought the cop was after "the other car" why did they not stop to let him go by? The cop actually seems pretty calm. Maybe, just maybe if everyone had quit trying to make excuses and owed up (You know be accountable for your actions) to being wrong the guy would have ultimately walked. Is this such a hard thing to understand anymore or is everyone so blinded by hatred for the police?

[tomato coupe]

i can just see how the court proceedings will go:

judge: "son, motorcycles can be very dangerous, and evading an officer puts everyones lives in danger"

awkward silence

judge: "wait, this happened on a bicycle?? the kind you pedal?.....officer dumdum, are you suggesting this young man was attempting to make a run for it on a bicycle when you were in your truck?"

People flee on foot all the time ...

[jimcav]

not sure how anyone can defend the cop here. 2 riders did the same thing, he stops them and then tells the non-white one, almost immediately, essentially "i'm arresting you", while still on his bicycle. It was only then any "***" language occurred, which is how I'd feel being arrested alone for something, when two of us did the same thing, and that was clear on the beginning of the video when the officer handed off his camera or whatever to the other guy. The arrest decision was made before anything was reasonably explained or discussed. Some people just double down on bad decisions when confronted with it. I always liked the 'broken windows' argument for policing, and this episode may typify an analogous issue to the systemic/culture aspect of the justice system. IF this is how law enforcement act in such a low key/low threat scenario, what does it mean for higher stress/risk scenarios...

[parris]

dddd the perception that we're all seeing with the body cam as well as dash cam footage is different. Yours is that the cyclist attempted to flee, resist arrest, and curse at the LEO.

My perception was that the cyclist did run the stop sign. That much appears to be well established in the video. Where I saw things differently was that the LEO started cuffing the cyclist right from the jump. The cyclist by his body language didn't know *** was going on at first and it was evident that he wasn't processing the events as fast as people that have more living under their belt. When the LEO told both cyclists that they were fleeing etc it was clear in their tone of voice, speed with which they answered, and the answer they gave that neither of them thought the lights and siren were for them. The cyclist that was arrested did curse. But that curse was not at the LEO. I've been in that profession for just under 25 years and KNOW what being cursed at is.

The cyclist's at least initially were respectful from what I saw. The LEO was not being respectful. He could've arrested the cyclist under the same charges but without the drama that we saw unfold on the video if he had actually TALKED to the cyclist so the cyclist had a clear understanding on what he was being accused of and what actions the LEO needed to take.

There's more but like I said we all see different things when watching the same things at times.

[Louis]

Let me get this outta the way, Louis, congrat's for trying to make this an ethnic/racial thread or whatever and get another discussion closed.

Oh please. So there was no racial aspect to this arrest?

I'm not "trying" to make it a racial thing - the cop did that when he arrested the cyclist.

[jamesdak]

dddd the perception that we're all seeing with the body cam as well as dash cam footage is different. Yours is that the cyclist attempted to flee, resist arrest, and curse at the LEO.

My perception was that the cyclist did run the stop sign. That much appears to be well established in the video. Where I saw things differently was that the LEO started cuffing the cyclist right from the jump. The cyclist by his body language didn't know *** was going on at first and it was evident that he wasn't processing the events as fast as people that have more living under their belt. When the LEO told both cyclists that they were fleeing etc it was clear in their tone of voice, speed with which they answered, and the answer they gave that neither of them thought the lights and siren were for them. The cyclist that was arrested did curse. But that curse was not at the LEO. I've been in that profession for just under 25 years and KNOW what being cursed at is.

The cyclist's at least initially were respectful from what I saw. The LEO was not being respectful. He could've arrested the cyclist under the same charges but without the drama that we saw unfold on the video if he had actually TALKED to the cyclist so the cyclist had a clear understanding on what he was being accused of and what actions the LEO needed to take.

There's more but like I said we all see different things when watching the same things at times.

So you truly believe that if you race up, slow down and pull along cyclist with your lights and siren on and your window down looking at them that they won't comprehend that maybe, just maybe your want them to stop? To me that's the second wrong right there. And from then on it's just all excuses and credibility is lost for the cyclist is it not?

[tomato coupe]

...he stops them and then tells the non-white one, almost immediately, essentially "i'm arresting you...
That's not quite accurate. He told the kid he was cuffing him, but didn't arrest him until after the kid resisted getting cuffed. Cuffing someone would be SOP if the cop thought he/she might flee, which the cop clearly thought he had already tried to do. The cop may have overreacted, but he's not entirely wrong.

[jimcav]

So you truly believe that if you race up, slow down and pull along cyclist with your lights and siren on and your window down looking at them that they won't comprehend that maybe, just maybe your want them to stop? To me that's the second wrong right there. And from then on it's just all excuses and credibility is lost for the cyclist is it not?

What i saw doesn't show much time elapsing from him pulling up alongside and then them stopping and the officer pulling over in front of them? Depending on speed, effort, helmet wind noise, etc, in my riding experience a few to several seconds can elapse before you understand what is going on and stop. I didn't see an egregiously long interval in the video.

I was once pulled over by a cop at 530 am, I did roll a stop, it didn't occur to me he was after me until he got right behind me--he was on a motorcycle. I admitted what i did, and also told him at that time of morning on my way to work, when I saw there was no opposing/crossing traffic I always did. He wrote me a ticket, and then when trying to get back on his bike, it fell over--which goes to your point of where to safely pull over on a road--the shoulder was heavily sloped. I offered to help him get his BMW up, and he glared at me. I took a cell phone picture, and he glared much more, but I said if he hurt his back at least I could offer proof of it being work-related...

[jimcav]

That's not quite accurate. He told the kid he was cuffing him, but didn't arrest him until after the kid resisted getting cuffed. Cuffing someone would be SOP if the cop thought he/she might flee, which the cop clearly thought he had already tried to do. The cop may have overreacted, but he's not entirely wrong.

unless that a useful distinction in FL code. The video unfolds in seconds from "putting you in cuffs" to "arresting you" and his tone makes it sound like he is clarifying the kid's continued question of "what are you doing?" I don't think any reasonable test applied to seeing this is going to find it was warranted even if technically ok, and especially since there was completely different outcomes for the 2 riders who did the same exact thing, with no other obvious explanation.

[dustyrider]

I think as long as “police are people some are good, and some are bad,” we’ll have discussions like this one. There’s two groups: those who know the police can _____ you, and those that may one day learn the police can _____ you.
Act accordingly.

[tomato coupe]

unless that a useful distinction in FL code. The video unfolds in seconds from "putting you in cuffs" to "arresting you" and his tone makes it sound like he is clarifying the kid's continued question of "what are you doing?" I don't think any reasonable test applied to seeing this is going to find it was warranted even if technically ok, and especially since there was completely different outcomes for the 2 riders who did the same exact thing, with no other obvious explanation.

The cop tells the kid a couple of times "don't resist me" before he tells him he's arresting him. I'd bet the kid would have been released if he hadn't resisted when getting cuffed.

[dustyrider]

Wow, that many? I googled, poorly apparently. Thanks for posting this.

I can tell you, only as of 1/01/2020 @ PDX.

Careful with Colorado. The Governor left it up to local counties and cities. I don’t believe our county has even brought it up...

[parris]

jamesdak what I think is that the cyclists didn't comprehend initially what was going down. You bring up a good point about what the LEO did in catching the cyclists. Why did the LEO put not only the cyclists but also himself and any other road users at risk by driving next to the cyclists for the distance he did? Every police car, suv, and van that I've ever been in has a good loud PA speaker. It's a hell of a lot easier to just grab the mic and tell the cyclists to pull over from behind that way instead of doing it what way he did.

Earlier in my career I was assigned to outside inmate work crews during the summer months. Because of my background I often times got the crew that was assigned to mowing various properties in the county. I've used the pa system on the van regularly to call for breaks and such with inmates ranging out to 200 yds while they're running lawn mowers. The LEO could've easily done this to get the cyclists attention.

[tomato coupe]

Because of my background I often times got the crew that was assigned to mowing various properties in the county. I've used the pa system on the van regularly to call for breaks and such with inmates ranging out to 200 yds while they're running lawn mowers. The LEO could've easily done this to get the cyclists attention.

Shouting at two cyclists ten feet away isn't really the same as shouting at people 200 yards away running mowers.

[parris]

I don't think this was so much a "cycling while brown" issue as some have brought up. I think the LEO saw the first cyclist blow the stop sign and tunnel visioned on that first cyclist. During the later part of the video the LEO calls the 2nd cyclist over and there was the exchange about weather that cyclist blew the stop. When that cyclist and others said no I/he stopped the LEO didn't arrest him. The simple reason is because the LEO's full attention was on the first cyclist.

I've seen this same type of tunnel vision during training. I've seen recruits so focused on the scenario and threat in front of them that the officer playing an inmate literally walks away without the recruits being aware. We have a fair amount of video that we use in AAR with the classes.

[parris]

tomato my point is that the pa speaker would've been a more effective tool for the LEO to use is all. In the video he's trying to yell out of his truck with lights, siren, and wind noise while working to keep the truck on the road and not clip the cyclists.

[mistermo]

I guess I watched a different video than most of you. He blew the stop sign, he's wrong, he didn't pull over, he's wrong, he lied and said I didn't hear you, he's wrong, the bike "gang" confronting the cop, they're wrong. All the B.S. being spouted by others most likely escalated the situation. Let me ask you all this. When you are riding on the road and an emergency vehicle comes by with lights and siren on what do you do? I stop and put a foot down no matter what side of the road I'm on since in my mind that's the same as pulling over to let an emergency vehicle through. So....even if he "really" thought the cop was after "the other car" why did they not stop to let him go by? The cop actually seems pretty calm. Maybe, just maybe if everyone had quit trying to make excuses and owed up (You know be accountable for your actions) to being wrong the guy would have ultimately walked. Is this such a hard thing to understand anymore or is everyone so blinded by hatred for the police?

Yes, you watched a different video than I. And your road manners are different than mine, or any group I've ever ridden with. Around these parts, the Saturday morning Rouleurs never stop at stop signs when there aren't cars present. Doubt you do too. When I hear emergency vehicles approaching, I've never once assumed they were coming for me, and by the time I can get stopped, they're past. And, I can't hear verbal commands when sirens are glaring.

Good thing we have body cameras! Why did cop cover his? Why did he turn off sound? Looks to me as if he was hiding things. I'll wager that those who believe we should have a smaller government are the same as those who defend overreach of power by cops.

Pic 1, covering the body cam
Pic 2, spittin' his chew like a good 'ol redneck should
Pic 3, interesting juxtaposition of Old Glory: "Freedom isn't free"
Pic 4, cop who arrested cyclist, begins texting while driving immediately after

[choke]

This video is an excellent example of why a lot of people don't trust police officers these days.

[Tony]

Yes, you watched a different video than I. And your road manners are different than mine, or any group I've ever ridden with. Around these parts, the Saturday morning Rouleurs never stop at stop signs when there aren't cars present. Doubt you do too. When I hear emergency vehicles approaching, I've never once assumed they were coming for me, and by the time I can get stopped, they're past. And, I can't hear verbal commands when sirens are glaring.

Good thing we have body cameras! Why did cop cover his? Why did he turn off sound? Looks to me as if he was hiding things. I'll wager that those who believe we should have a smaller government are the same as those who defend overreach of power by cops.

Pic 1, covering the body cam
Pic 2, spittin' his chew like a good 'ol redneck should
Pic 3, interesting juxtaposition of Old Glory: "Freedom isn't free"
Pic 4, cop who arrested cyclist, begins texting while driving immediately after

I watched the same video you watched.

[BobO]

I'll wager that those who believe we should have a smaller government are the same as those who defend overreach of power by cops.

I'll take that bet.

[azrider]

Pic 2, spittin' his chew like a good 'ol redneck should

Dude. The biggest problem I see is your holier than though sentiment of "he's guilty and anyone who thinks otherwise is a 'smaller gov' type".....you ain't being coy pal, we know what you mean. :rolleyes:

I'm not justifying the cops actions, by any means....but you're just as bad as he is by issuing the "redneck" insults.

[charliedid]

Excellent work deputy fife!

That's just lousy. Cops in Chicago assume you are rolling the signs.

Dislike.

[azrider]

Dude can we just stop with the name calling and the Barney Fife, and Redneck and Powertrip insults?

If someone were to break into your house, or your car, or vandalize your property who is the first number you'd call???..........yeah, thought so

[dddd]

It was clear that it was the rider in the yellow (Lopez) who was the first to violate the stop sign and was then ordered to stop.
It is grainy footage but it does appear that Lopez looked toward the cop just before disappearing behind the hedges.
So obviously he became the perp at that moment since the cop was focused on him, again because he led the way and ignored an order to stop while making apparent eye contact, not because of his ethnicity.
The video poorly conveys how close that the cop was to the two who brazenly tried to flee. OBVIOUSLY the riders could hear the command and were already aware that their violation was being scrutinized at that very moment in time.

Think about how hard it is to be an accurate witness in any situation, but much harder and perhaps less effective to try witnessing/scrutinizing two suspects at the same time. The lead rider therefore was the one who was precisely witnessed in multiple violation of the law.

Again, silly of anyone to try making this seem "racial", though I have to wonder how it would have gone for him (or anyone else) doing these same things back home in Puerto Rico. It seems to me that he simply made a very wrong assumption as to the Florida officer's seriousness at doing his job, but then really screwed up when he pretty much thoroughly "diss'd" the officer again.
He did seem less than clear-headed to me, so I think adrenaline+hypoxia is a factor, as well as the hinted-at neurological impact of a supposed brain tumor.

I'm impressed though how far up the road that the adrenaline got those two fleeing cyclists!
Good acting too! (who, me?)
LOL

[mistermo]

Dude can we just stop with the name calling and the Barney Fife, and Redneck and Powertrip insults?

If someone were to break into your house, or your car, or vandalize your property who is the first number you'd call???..........yeah, thought so

Are you equating a roll through of a stop sign with burglary or vandalism? The cop was out of line. Yes, that's my opinion, which will likely be shared by the Prosecutor and/or Judge. Wanna take that bet?

[FlashUNC]

Dude can we just stop with the name calling and the Barney Fife, and Redneck and Powertrip insults?

If someone were to break into your house, or your car, or vandalize your property who is the first number you'd call???..........yeah, thought so

What about Roscoe P Coltrane?

[azrider]

Are you equating a roll through of a stop sign with burglary or vandalism? The cop was out of line. Yes, that's my opinion, which will likely be shared by the Prosecutor and/or Judge. Wanna take that bet?

I absolutely hope that the prosecutor, judge, and Sheriff sit the guy down and say "what the H were you thinking" and he gets a teachable moment.

Am I equating a roll through to burglary or vandalism?? Cmon man.....of course not. I'm saying why bash and demean the same folks you (and I) call when in time of need.

[dddd]

Are you equating a roll through of a stop sign with burglary or vandalism? The cop was out of line. Yes, that's my opinion, which will likely be shared by the Prosecutor and/or Judge. Wanna take that bet?


I predict that the "kid" will walk.

But, you'll never know WHY the kid finally walks, because discussions of a young man's neurological issues (if these are found by the court to credibly exist) will be totally private.

And which will just go to show how much respect that suspects are afforded in this country, part of why so much time goes by in court cases where in many instances suspects are allowed sufficient time to demonstrate that they can stay out of trouble, before their case disposition is reached.

Young offenders may actually mature during such a waiting period, so for the most part it's a good system.

[charliedid]

Dude can we just stop with the name calling and the Barney Fife, and Redneck and Powertrip insults?

If someone were to break into your house, or your car, or vandalize your property who is the first number you'd call???..........yeah, thought so

LOL You don't know me :)

[mistermo]

I absolutely hope that the prosecutor, judge, and Sheriff sit the guy down and say "what the H were you thinking" and he gets a teachable moment.

Am I equating a roll through to burglary or vandalism?? Cmon man.....of course not. I'm saying why bash and demean the same folks you (and I) call when in time of need.

Fair enough, but can't you see the Barney Fife comparison has validity too? If I (we?) had my druthers, I'd hope someone with better judgement showed up in my time of need.

I get riled by hypocrisy of which there is abundance in this video:

The cop nails the cyclist for rolling through the stop sign, then moments later pulls out his cell phone and starts texting with both hands WHILE he's driving. Which is the bigger danger?

From the time he yells at them to the time they pull over, it's 11 seconds. Seems a stretch to call this an evasion attempt.

Why do we equip cops with body cameras? So they can cover them when it's inconvenient and turn them off when they don't want us to hear them?

And why does he arrest the Hispanic male, while both rolled through the sign and "didn't stop"? When he "orders" white male to come over ("That's an order!"), white male doesn't. Then white male says that he DID stop, when he clearly did not. Cop takes white male at his word, and lets him off. Easy to see why minority groups see this and feel singled out. One may not feel this is racism (opinion), but these are the facts. Interpretations may differ, but it's easy to see how another side can interpret these facts differently. Bizarre.

[Louis]

If someone were to break into your house, or your car, or vandalize your property who is the first number you'd call???..........yeah, thought so


So now we can't criticize LEOs because if we do we might hurt their feelings and they might not do their jobs and respond when a real crime is being committed?

So it's come to blackmail and threats - allow the cops to harass cyclists as they please, because if you don't, they won't protect your home.

[gibbo]

Calling out bad behaviour is not demonising someone, it is only judging the specific behaviour in question.
The fact you call the cops if someone burgles your home does not mean you should hold cops to a lower standard, in fact it’s the opposite.
When I hear people making excuses for looking the other way with many powerful groups ( church, law enforcement, politicians, blaw blaw blaw ), I feel it’s total BS! When an individual makes a group look bad they need to be help to account by that group, if the group fails to do this the group is complicit. If the group try’s to cover up or hide the behaviour they are complicit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jimcav]

That's not quite accurate. He told the kid he was cuffing him, but didn't arrest him until after the kid resisted getting cuffed. Cuffing someone would be SOP if the cop thought he/she might flee, which the cop clearly thought he had already tried to do. The cop may have overreacted, but he's not entirely wrong.

I hear the cop talking about resisting, but see no credible evidence of it. I admit I am suspicious because the audio was off and vid incomplete, and also because in high school I had a cop try to railroad me into a larger offense, citing speed and recklessness, when he was not even present for my accident. I argued with him, which only made him worse, and it took my passenger and several bystander witnesses to back him off, and he followed me for months afterwards. Next at a sobriety check where i was the designated driver i was taken in when a friend of my friend, who we offered to take home, unbeknownst to us had pot, and she panicked at the stop. The cop marked/used all the buzzwords about pupils and slurred speech etc when none were present. Just a huge hassle, to deal with. So, I look for LE to be professional, and at least behave better than suspects. This guy doesn't, and the hypocrisy present in his texting while driving, with a teenager, is just more egregious. I won't argue others can't just accept this behavior, but i will always wish they wouldn't.

[gdw]

Arresting the young man, he is not a juvenile, for resisting arrest seems a bit extreme. He and his companion should have been ticketed instead for running the stop sign and again for failing to yield to an emergency vehicle if Florida considers a police cruiser an emergency vehicle.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.126.html
That said, there might be more to this than we know. The sheriff's department could have had problems with the group in the past and decided that more extreme measures were needed to bring them in line.

[colker]

Road riding not only gets you run over by drivers typing on their phones which is illegal in most other countries but handcuffed and arrested for blowing a red light on an empty intersection.
I guess those kids would be better off doing drugs and watching tv instead of racing their bikes along their dads. Don´t ride.

[colker]

Shouting at two cyclists ten feet away isn't really the same as shouting at people 200 yards away running mowers.

Do you really believe what you are saying? Do you really believe those two riders should hear the cop over all the car noise and their own physical effort? You sound like a lawyer finding a hole to slip a fantasy narrative.

[AngryScientist]

If someone were to break into your house, or your car, or vandalize your property who is the first number you'd call???..........yeah, thought so

i've heard this line of reasoning before, and IMO, the sentiment implied is wrong.

police officers are well paid professionals. if you call them for assistance, they come to your house, not out of kindness or empathy, or because they are doing you a favor - but because it's their job that they are paid to do, period.

just the same as many of us got up early this morning and went to work, not because we are doing our boss a favor, because that's the job we are paid to do. same thing.

part of the officer's job is to act with professionalism. for a police officer professionalism means using good judgement and not abusing power.

the base crime was rolling a stop sign. the young man pretty clearly doesnt have a good understanding of what's going on, and the officer had him pulled over and in cuffs reasonably quickly, so i think the charge of fleeing or resisting is a little overblown. i also think for a young man who's at least a little scared and confused as to what's happening, it's unrealistic to think he'll roll over and present his wrists for cuffing immediately.

should he have pulled over more quickly and not given the officer a crap attitude from the onset - absolutely

should he have been ticketed for rolling the stop sign - given the crap attitude, probably

should he have been hauled off to jail - absolutely not.

IMO

[Ralph]

Not excusing the details here.....Deputy actions....and this happened a few miles from my house.

These kids got caught up in something bigger than their ride. There are a lot of complaints to the Seminole County Sheriff's department about the behavior of large group rides on weekend mornings. They are watching every group ride like a hawk. And I know the group leaders are making every effort possible to keep the rides legal in all aspects. But we all know that group rides tend to take on a different nature than the individual rider. And the general public complains. And all riders pay the price of the actions of a few. Nothing racial here, and I imagine officer location was by his superior's order. I know how hard it is to get the sheriff's department to station an officer in our neighborhood, so if that officer was stationed at that intersection, it was because of a lot of resident complaints.

[oldpotatoe]

In my personal experience (multiple times for me) this happens way, way too often. Some of them are perfectly normal guys, but some are nuts.

Yup, some are..and give them anything but yes-sir, no-sir, 3 bags full SIR and bad things CAN happen..They hold all the cards, whether you like it or not, whether you are right or not..

I once had to stand before the 'long green table', as an O-5(Commander) in the USN before a 4 STAR Admiral, that's 5 paygrades above me.....he was just waiting for me to give the 'yessir, BUT' answer..so he could fire me..I didn't..YES Sir, absolutely RIGHT sir, No SiR....

Gotta pick your battles..going toe to toe, while bike riding, to ANY cop is a BAD IDEA...
should he have pulled over more quickly and not given the officer a crap attitude from the onset - absolutely

should he have been ticketed for rolling the stop sign - given the crap attitude, probably

should he have been hauled off to jail - absolutely not.

What he said...

[R3awak3n]

+ 1000 what Angry said.


Also if someone breaks into my house, I would call my neighbors. No chance the cops will get here on time to do anything.

[jamesdak]

Yes, you watched a different video than I. And your road manners are different than mine, or any group I've ever ridden with. Around these parts, the Saturday morning Rouleurs never stop at stop signs when there aren't cars present. Doubt you do too. When I hear emergency vehicles approaching, I've never once assumed they were coming for me, and by the time I can get stopped, they're past. And, I can't hear verbal commands when sirens are glaring.



LOL, so one of us is a good ambassador of cycling by following the law and you ride with a bunch that don't. Yeah, I do stop and I ride primarily rural roads with no one around. Doesn't put me above the law. I also stop in my car, gasp! ;)

I ride with a mirror and like I said, rural roads. I hardly ever get surprised by an emergency vehicle so no problems stopping most times. I even, wait for it, stop for school buses letting kids off. Shocking I know but sometimes you just have to follow the law or at least show respect for it. :banana::banana:

[jamesdak]

jamesdak what I think is that the cyclists didn't comprehend initially what was going down. You bring up a good point about what the LEO did in catching the cyclists. Why did the LEO put not only the cyclists but also himself and any other road users at risk by driving next to the cyclists for the distance he did? Every police car, suv, and van that I've ever been in has a good loud PA speaker. It's a hell of a lot easier to just grab the mic and tell the cyclists to pull over from behind that way instead of doing it what way he did.



Yep, I do agree with this. I'm just so skeptical about them not being able to comprehend that he wanted them when he was alongside. I also thought his speed seemed excessive to catch them. Plenty of blame to go around for all in this one. I'm still betting the cyclist would have walked if he had acted differently and it was totally his own actions that caused everything. So he's the responsible party, plan and simple. I still firmly, and maybe naively, believe if you don't do wrong things then it all comes out good for you in the end. That's certainly been my experience in my 50+ years and yeah I've had my share of "issues" over the years.

[oldpotatoe]

+ 1000 what Angry said.


Also if someone breaks into my house, I would call my neighbors. No chance the cops will get here on time to do anything.

Tee-hee..I would call the cops, eventually, after the dust settled and mention they 'might' need a ambulance and coroner...:eek:

[weisan]

James pal, I am in agreement with your assessments, every point.

[R3awak3n]

Yep, I do agree with this. I'm just so skeptical about them not being able to comprehend that he wanted them when he was alongside. I also thought his speed seemed excessive to catch them. Plenty of blame to go around for all in this one. I'm still betting the cyclist would have walked if he had acted differently and it was totally his own actions that caused everything. So he's the responsible party, plan and simple. I still firmly, and maybe naively, believe if you don't do wrong things then it all comes out good for you in the end. That's certainly been my experience in my 50+ years and yeah I've had my share of "issues" over the years.

I dunno man, the way the cop got in the car, the way he drove to catch em and the way the whole thing went down, seems like his mind was made for the outcome of the situation. Also, we don't know where the cyclist comes from and what his past interactions with the area cops were, maybe he had been harassed before so he was not going to play nice? maybe adrenaline? We are not 18 year old hispanic cyclists living in florida of all places to really say that we would have played nice in this specific situation.... to be fair, I don't think he resisted arrest or was particularly mean to the officer, he just was not nice but dude is being pulled over as if he just commited murder.

[mistermo]

LOL, so one of us is a good ambassador of cycling by following the law and you ride with a bunch that don't. Yeah, I do stop and I ride primarily rural roads with no one around. Doesn't put me above the law. I also stop in my car, gasp! ;)

I ride with a mirror and like I said, rural roads. I hardly ever get surprised by an emergency vehicle so no problems stopping most times. I even, wait for it, stop for school buses letting kids off. Shocking I know but sometimes you just have to follow the law or at least show respect for it. :banana::banana:

You stop at stop signs on rural roads when there's no one around?!? Clearly, our riding styles are different. I can't think of a single time I've had to stop (on my bike) for a school bus. My ability to inflict harm, on a bike, is mainly to myself. My ability to inflict harm, in a car, is to others. Recognizing this truth, I allow myself leeway in my interpretation of safe operating standards and hope you are sensible enough to see this too.

I don't ride alone on country roads anymore, I find them too dangerous. The shoulders are nonexistent and there's too many driving too fast, not paying attention. I ride with a group and believe there's safety in numbers. We try to ride on roads where cars aren't, similar to the road where it looked like the group in the video was riding. We often ride two abreast, which is legal. Because we ride two abreast, we often annoy cars who find it hard to pass. This isn't done intentionally, but because we have nowhere else to ride. These same drivers who are annoyed by our groups, are the same ones who have made it impossible to ride safely alone, for fear of becoming road kill.

We are recreational, but we ride as fast as we can. We stop at busy cross streets, for red lights. We do not stop at stop signs in quieter areas where there's no cars present. You would be dropped in about 60 seconds from our group rides if you're stopping at all neighborhood stop signs, sans cars.

[Black Dog]

Yup, some are..and give them anything but yes-sir, no-sir, 3 bags full SIR and bad things CAN happen..They hold all the cards, whether you like it or not, whether you are right or not..

I once had to stand before the 'long green table', as an O-5(Commander) in the USN before a 4 STAR Admiral, that's 5 paygrades above me.....he was just waiting for me to give the 'yessir, BUT' answer..so he could fire me..I didn't..YES Sir, absolutely RIGHT sir, No SiR....

Gotta pick your battles..going toe to toe, while bike riding, to ANY cop is a BAD IDEA...


What he said...

This is not the way a civil society should run, it is more like a police state. I do agree that being civil to LEO is always a good thing as is being civil to everyone. Yelling and screaming rarely makes a situation better and not doing so does not mean you are accepting an injustice.

[Black Dog]

Yep, I do agree with this. I'm just so skeptical about them not being able to comprehend that he wanted them when he was alongside. I also thought his speed seemed excessive to catch them. Plenty of blame to go around for all in this one. I'm still betting the cyclist would have walked if he had acted differently and it was totally his own actions that caused everything. So he's the responsible party, plan and simple. I still firmly, and maybe naively, believe if you don't do wrong things then it all comes out good for you in the end. That's certainly been my experience in my 50+ years and yeah I've had my share of "issues" over the years.

This is not true for so many people, especially visible minorities, and certain socioeconomic groups. Being a white middle class male is the one demographic where your statement holds water, outside that, not so much. I think that this has been documented well enough that it would be hard to argue against.

[glepore]

Not excusing the details here.....Deputy actions....and this happened a few miles from my house.

These kids got caught up in something bigger than their ride. There are a lot of complaints to the Seminole County Sheriff's department about the behavior of large group rides on weekend mornings. They are watching every group ride like a hawk. And I know the group leaders are making every effort possible to keep the rides legal in all aspects. But we all know that group rides tend to take on a different nature than the individual rider. And the general public complains. And all riders pay the price of the actions of a few. Nothing racial here, and I imagine officer location was by his superior's order. I know how hard it is to get the sheriff's department to station an officer in our neighborhood, so if that officer was stationed at that intersection, it was because of a lot of resident complaints.

This. As I said in the closed thread, we're our own worst enemies sometimes.

[colker]

i've heard this line of reasoning before, and IMO, the sentiment implied is wrong.

police officers are well paid professionals. if you call them for assistance, they come to your house, not out of kindness or empathy, or because they are doing you a favor - but because it's their job that they are paid to do, period.

just the same as many of us got up early this morning and went to work, not because we are doing our boss a favor, because that's the job we are paid to do. same thing.

part of the officer's job is to act with professionalism. for a police officer professionalism means using good judgement and not abusing power.

the base crime was rolling a stop sign. the young man pretty clearly doesnt have a good understanding of what's going on, and the officer had him pulled over and in cuffs reasonably quickly, so i think the charge of fleeing or resisting is a little overblown. i also think for a young man who's at least a little scared and confused as to what's happening, it's unrealistic to think he'll roll over and present his wrists for cuffing immediately.

should he have pulled over more quickly and not given the officer a crap attitude from the onset - absolutely

should he have been ticketed for rolling the stop sign - given the crap attitude, probably

should he have been hauled off to jail - absolutely not.

IMO

Yes. Cops are empowered by law. They are the only ones allowed w/ the use of violence. They intimidate and impose themselves by nature. Such privilege comes w/ higher personal standards. Cops have to be good every single day. They cannot have a bad day at the office, make a mistake and say i am sorry after lashing out on someone who is weak, not armed and not dangerous.

[FlashUNC]

Yep, I do agree with this. I'm just so skeptical about them not being able to comprehend that he wanted them when he was alongside. I also thought his speed seemed excessive to catch them. Plenty of blame to go around for all in this one. I'm still betting the cyclist would have walked if he had acted differently and it was totally his own actions that caused everything. So he's the responsible party, plan and simple. I still firmly, and maybe naively, believe if you don't do wrong things then it all comes out good for you in the end. That's certainly been my experience in my 50+ years and yeah I've had my share of "issues" over the years.

Any superficial knowledge of some of the high profile police violence incidents of the last few years would show that, yes, this is extremely naive. You can everything right and still end up dead.

[Tony]

Yep, I do agree with this. I'm just so skeptical about them not being able to comprehend that he wanted them when he was alongside. I also thought his speed seemed excessive to catch them. Plenty of blame to go around for all in this one. I'm still betting the cyclist would have walked if he had acted differently and it was totally his own actions that caused everything. So he's the responsible party, plan and simple. I still firmly, and maybe naively, believe if you don't do wrong things then it all comes out good for you in the end. That's certainly been my experience in my 50+ years and yeah I've had my share of "issues" over the years.

Sorry, does not always happen this way.

[shoota]

This has been fascinating to follow.

As someone who rode for years in that area I'm 100% sure that cop had an agenda that day. Every time we got pulled over it looked exactly like that. Cops waiting at the corner that we blew through, pulling us all over, lecturing us, etc etc. No one ever got arrested but if it had been this cop that pulled us over I bet someone would have been.

[benb]

The only thing weird I see here is one kid gets arrested and the other doesn't. Probably neither should have been arrested, but I still think there's more we don't know. I do think he deserves a second chance and should get the charges dropped. But the two of them behave differently and I've been in situations like this (not cycling) where the member of the group who ran their mouth off got the book thrown at them and the rest of us were left off. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

In the video the kid who got arrested swears at the cop immediately, the other kid never swears and he shuts up when he's told to and doesn't push the issue. If the kid who got arrested was that eager to swear at an officer how do we know he didn't flip the officer off when the officer pulled up next to them and they still didn't stop? His resistance is about 2 seconds but it's there from a cops perspective.

They *definitely* deserve big fat tickets. I can't believe you guys defend what they did at the intersection, especially if there's a background of complaints from homeowners/motorists.

That was an incredibly flagrant running of the stop sign. It was a left turn, the idea that's safe is kind of silly. It wasn't like they stopped and unclipped, they look like they maybe slowed from > 20mph to 15mph or something if that. They look like they came close to being in the wrong lane through the intersection, and they did it clear view of police officers. Considering there appeared to be more than one cruiser waiting this looks like a setup and there were probably a ton of complaints for the county to send 2 cruisers out there just due to a bicycle ride.

Also it's ridiculous how long it took them to pull over. You don't keep riding like that for close to a minute with sirens behind you. You pull the heck over so they can get by, no different than driving a car! Hanging out in the road trying to get your PR with sirens behind you is super foolish, great way to get killed.

He did *everything* wrong. The group needs to do a better job teaching the younger members how to behave. If we all behave like this no one is going to give cyclists the benefit of the doubt. Also parents are supposed to be teaching their kids about how you behave out on the road and how you behave around police/emergency services.

The original facebook post was a lie too.. that video footage absolutely does not support the story that one of the kids stopped.

[benb]

This has been fascinating to follow.

As someone who rode for years in that area I'm 100% sure that cop had an agenda that day. Every time we got pulled over it looked exactly like that. Cops waiting at the corner that we blew through, pulling us all over, lecturing us, etc etc. No one ever got arrested but if it had been this cop that pulled us over I bet someone would have been.

Of course they had an agenda. It very clearly looks like they were ordered there as a result of complaints. Two officers/cruisers don't just hang out at an intersection where there's no traffic early in the morning without a reason.

I call the police on a semi-regular basis to report drivers blowing past the school bus when my 7-year old is getting on the bus. Super flagrant blowing past the stop signs & flashing lights on the school bus. The police come out to the intersection just like this. They have an agenda, to deter people from blowing past school busses.

These guys had an agenda, deter the group of cyclists from continuing to blow through an intersection.

[benb]

I'm watching the extended video and the BS talk from the larger group of cyclists is just super embarrassing.

I wonder if any of them got tickets for wearing headphones.

The idea you can't hear a siren right behind while you're riding a bicycle is ridiculous.

You can hear that siren doing highway speeds on a motorcycle with a full face helmet + ear plugs.

Father changes his story after the officer realizes the kid is 20 years old and is not a minor? (As if 19 is a minor!) What father can't remember their children's birthdays? Cyclists doing "What if he's deaf?" talk to the officers? Other cyclist refusing to come over when ordered to and flagrantly lying about not running the stop sign?

It just goes on and on, these guys are their own worst enemies.

[oldpotatoe]

This is not the way a civil society should run, it is more like a police state. I do agree that being civil to LEO is always a good thing as is being civil to everyone. Yelling and screaming rarely makes a situation better and not doing so does not mean you are accepting an injustice.

Ayup, but the 'reality' of it is different. 'civil society'.???..Been outside, watch any TV, read any newspaper, been in any big or small group, look at almost ANYthing on the interweb.......Hardly a police state but certainly people are angry, everywhere....these days.

[chiasticon]

I wonder if any of them got tickets for wearing headphones.

The idea you can't hear a siren right behind while you're riding a bicycle is ridiculous.

You can hear that siren doing highway speeds on a motorcycle with a full face helmet + ear plugs.did both of the younger riders have headphones in? I could clearly see them in the one who wasn't arrested, not sure about the one who was.

headphones on any group ride around me are an absolute no-no. as in kicked off the ride. it's unsafe as hell to not be able to communicate with the group.

[Red Tornado]

+ 1000 what Angry said.


Also if someone breaks into my house, I would call my neighbors. No chance the cops will get here on time to do anything.

Tee-hee..I would call the cops, eventually, after the dust settled and mention they 'might' need a ambulance and coroner...:eek:

Yessir. If someone is breaking into my house while we're at home, my wife is calling 911 and I either have the handgun out or just racked my home defense shotgun. This for the exact reason mentioned above; cops may take several minutes to show up while we may only have seconds before the perp comes through the door/window.

[benb]

did both of the younger riders have headphones in? I could clearly see them in the one who wasn't arrested, not sure about the one who was.

headphones on any group ride around me are an absolute no-no. as in kicked off the ride. it's unsafe as hell to not be able to communicate with the group.

I might be wrong and you're right.

Not going to watch the whole thing again.. I thought I saw the kid who was arrested wearing Airpods at one point.

If you watch the whole painfully long thing the officer & the father eventually walk away to the other cruiser to get away from the rest of the badly behaving group of cyclists, you can tell even the father is annoyed by the other cyclists. But at any rate during the conversation the officer mentions the son did wave him away/gesture at him when he was trying to pull him over, so the son clearly heard the sirens & officer.

I don't know.. I don't think these police were particularly hotheaded.. they stayed pretty calm, didn't yell at anyone once they got them pulled over. Maybe charges get worked out but hard to believe any of these police are getting in trouble.

I was trying to look up the club, can't seem to find it. If the kid was not from the US as the story was being told I am curious where the club is from since he's wearing kit and so is his dad.

One of the kids even says something like "but we have a race" early in the video.

[Red Tornado]

If rolling through is not recognized as legal in FL, then the cyclist committed the first offense. BIL spent most of his career in law enforcement and heard so many excuses why they shouldn't be given a warning/ticket/arrested. His reply always the same, basically just don't break the law. I know it doesn't always work this way, and there are bad LEO's who will not apply the law properly, but the principle itself is true. The other cyclists actions were probably not the wisest either and if the kid really did run his mouth, def not advisable. The LEO pretty much holds all cards in this situation and, right or wrong, cyclists need to act accordingly. The facts should come out in court.

OTOH it looks like the officer most definitely over-reacted and IMO was on a power trip. Both not good. Like others have said he could have handled this so much differently, got the point across regarding rolling the stop sign, maybe a warning or ticket, and everyone goes on their way.

Plenty of blame to go around, and maybe a good situation to teach how to not to behave at a traffic stop for both civilians and LEO's.

[ariw]

It seems that I am not the only one who assumes that sirens behind me are for something else when riding. I usually look over my shoulder, but my first instinct wouldn't be to pull over. Once I see them pull up next to me or in front of me, I would have stopped, no matter what was said - because it is next to impossible to hear someone yelling out of a window while you are riding.

Yeah, running the stop sign wasn't cool, but they did slow down and check the intersection. The MOST that should have been done is a ticket. This is a wild overreaction on the cop's part that will likely fall apart in court, but he doesn't care. The cyclist's family will pay the price, both in having an arrest record and legal fees to get this cleared up.

And folks wonder why so many people distrust cops...

-Ari

[tomato coupe]

Shouting at two cyclists ten feet away isn't really the same as shouting at people 200 yards away running mowers.

Do you really believe what you are saying? Do you really believe those two riders should hear the cop over all the car noise and their own physical effort? You sound like a lawyer finding a hole to slip a fantasy narrative.
Yes, I will unequivocally state that it is easier to communicate with a cyclist ten feet away from a moving vehicle, than it is to communicate with someone running a mower 200 yards away.

[gdw]

It seems that I am not the only one who assumes that sirens behind me are for something else when riding. I usually look over my shoulder, but my first instinct wouldn't be to pull over. Once I see them pull up next to me or in front of me, I would have stopped, no matter what was said - because it is next to impossible to hear someone yelling out of a window while you are riding.

Florida and many other states require driver's, cyclists, and pedestrians to yield the road when approached by emergency vehicles with their lights or sirens operating. You're expected to pull over to the right as far as possible and come to a complete stop so that the emergency vehicle can pass. I suggest you check the statures in your state.

[GregL]

When I hear sirens while riding my bike on the road, I immediately look for a law enforcement or emergency vehicle and vacate the road, if necessary. It's not just that I'm trying to follow the law, I don't want to get run over by the law enforcement/emergency vehicle or any other vehicle that is distracted by the siren and may not see me.

Greg

[tomato coupe]

...because it is next to impossible to hear someone yelling out of a window while you are riding.

Really? I can't count how many times drivers have shouted at me while passing. "Single file!" "Get off the road!" "F^&@#^!" Pretty easy to hear them ...

[dddd]

This is not true for so many people, especially visible minorities, and certain socioeconomic groups. Being a white middle class male is the one demographic where your statement holds water, outside that, not so much. I think that this has been documented well enough that it would be hard to argue against.


I'm likely preaching to the wrong group here, but having lived in such diverse places as Los Angeles, New York and L.A., worked in South-Central and even lived in the south for a couple of years, I can say that most of the ethnic disparity seen in terms of law enforcement action is like a self-fulfilling prophesy of what you are saying.
It gets to a point of ridiculous when guys are complaining of being regularly harrassed while seemingly doing everything that they can to make an officer suspect that they might be one of the outstanding warrant cases that the officers on the beat have to study before going out on each shift.
It is unfortunate when someone who's law-abiding does look (physically) like a statistically-better match to those on the outstanding-warrant list that the cops must study every day, but there is no simple solution when initially identifying dangerous and/or serial offenders still involves officer's using visual judgement.
At least today there is better technology to allow a suspect to be cleared before even being put into a patrol car, which is world's better than when officers might have no idea who they are really talking to.
So it's not that things are that bad, because in relative terms things have improved.
Most people who come to this country realize that the law enforcement process is far less than perfect, yet intelligently do their part to allow officers to more likely not suspect them by appearance in the future. Sadly for all, some do not.

[huck*this]

I mean, didn't the cyclist see the cruiser right in front of them? Yes they should have been issued a warning or at worst a ticket. Of course not the outcome that followed. Also, I would have thought that the "Officer" would have got on his loud speaker and identified the cyclist and ask them to pull over. Not a weak hand signal and yell out the window. Also the cop pulling out in front of the cyclist in order to pull them over?!?? That could have gone wrong real quick.

As for him pulling away his arm he was probably trying to get his footing. He is in cycling shoes with cleats and we all know how hard those are to walk/stand on especially when Adrenalin is flowing. The whole thing is a mess and agree the cyclist should lawyer up and take it to the city. Unlawful/false arrest.

[mistermo]

Yes, I will unequivocally state that it is easier to communicate with a cyclist ten feet away from a moving vehicle, than it is to communicate with someone running a mower 200 yards away.

And if said vehicle has sirens blaring, will you remain as unequivocal? C'mon! I've never heard a mower that's as loud as a police siren at ten feet.

[gdw]

And if said vehicle has sirens blaring, will you remain as unequivocal? C'mon! I've never heard a mower that's as loud as a police siren at ten feet.

You're required to yield to emergency vehicles in Indiana just like you are in Florida. If you do so there is no need for Barney Fife to yell out his window at you.
https://codes.findlaw.com/in/title-9-motor-vehicles/in-code-sect-9-21-8-35.html

[Billybob62]

The officer seems to think that he asked the riders to stop before he turned on his siren. This may have happened at the beginning of the video when there is (conveniently) no audio. In the section of the video when the officer is next to the cyclists demanding that they stop, the siren was on and I can't imagine the cyclist would be able to hear him.

I know this isn't on point but why do police need pickup trucks?

[ariw]

Really? I can't count how many times drivers have shouted at me while passing. "Single file!" "Get off the road!" "F^&@#^!" Pretty easy to hear them ...



I should phrase this better - next to impossible to understand, not hear. I know when I am being cussed out, but otherwise...

Ari

[tomato coupe]

Yes, I will unequivocally state that it is easier to communicate with a cyclist ten feet away from a moving vehicle, than it is to communicate with someone running a mower 200 yards away.

And if said vehicle has sirens blaring, will you remain as unequivocal? C'mon! I've never heard a mower that's as loud as a police siren at ten feet.
Reading comprehension is your friend ...

[Tony]

The officer seems to think that he asked the riders to stop before he turned on his siren. This may have happened at the beginning of the video when there is (conveniently) no audio. In the section of the video when the officer is next to the cyclists demanding that they stop, the siren was on and I can't imagine the cyclist would be able to hear him.

I know this isn't on point but why do police need pickup trucks?

Use for road blocks, crime scene investigation, emergency response, debris removal, carrying of larger cargo or high weigh items, like contraband and ...To haul bicycles with riders to jail.

[azrider]

i've heard this line of reasoning before, and IMO, the sentiment implied is wrong.

police officers are well paid professionals. if you call them for assistance, they come to your house, not out of kindness or empathy, or because they are doing you a favor - but because it's their job that they are paid to do, period.

just the same as many of us got up early this morning and went to work, not because we are doing our boss a favor, because that's the job we are paid to do. same thing.

part of the officer's job is to act with professionalism. for a police officer professionalism means using good judgement and not abusing power.

the base crime was rolling a stop sign. the young man pretty clearly doesnt have a good understanding of what's going on, and the officer had him pulled over and in cuffs reasonably quickly, so i think the charge of fleeing or resisting is a little overblown. i also think for a young man who's at least a little scared and confused as to what's happening, it's unrealistic to think he'll roll over and present his wrists for cuffing immediately.

should he have pulled over more quickly and not given the officer a crap attitude from the onset - absolutely

should he have been ticketed for rolling the stop sign - given the crap attitude, probably

should he have been hauled off to jail - absolutely not.

IMO

Yep. I think we're in 98% agreeance. I just don't like the generalizations and name calling/labeling of the same people who're risking their lives to protect the general public.

Cops these days have to wade through and put with a lot of different &hit, and get treated terribly in most instances. I just think a little respect goes a long way.

Last thing I'll add is I hope the group of dudes who started filming and mouthing off get embarrassed when they watch video. They really ended up sounding like a bunch of jacka&&es

[AngryScientist]

Yep. I think we're in 98% agreeance. I just don't like the generalizations and name calling/labeling of the same people who're risking their lives to protect the general public.

Cops these days have to wade through and put with a lot of different &hit, and get treated terribly in most instances. I just think a little respect goes a long way.

Last thing I'll add is I hope the group of dudes who started filming and mouthing off get embarrassed when they watch video. They really ended up sounding like a bunch of jacka&&es

you can close the gap, i also agree with your points above.

[djdj]

Really? I can't count how many times drivers have shouted at me while passing. "Single file!" "Get off the road!" "F^&@#^!" Pretty easy to hear them ...

Try hearing them over a siren.

[windsurfer]

Amazingly wrong on so many levels.

It appears that in the cops mind, it became felony evasion as soon as the cyclists didn't yield to that incredibly weak hand gesture at the intersection. That is where the cyclists argument of didn't see and didn't hear comes in. Would be a huge travesty if this goes to court.

Ear buds were in when the cyclists were first stopped. Also clearly a language barrier as the kid was confused and switching between English and Spanish.

Hopefully charges are dropped, apologies made, and reprimands/training are given to prevent reoccurance.

Also appalling to show texting and driving.

[Tony]

Yep. I think we're in 98% agreeance. I just don't like the generalizations and name calling/labeling of the same people who're risking their lives to protect the general public.

Cops these days have to wade through and put with a lot of different &hit, and get treated terribly in most instances. I just think a little respect goes a long way.

I hear you and agree with you. Just realize there are a lot of bad folks working in law enforcement. I have seen plenty of injustice, corruption and cruelty in my former line of work.

[djdj]

Show of hands for each of you that always stop your bike and get off the road when you hear a siren coming from behind?

[Keith A]

At lunch today, I showed the video to some co-workers without giving them any prior knowledge of the situation. I wanted to see hear their unbiased opinion. They were all surprised at how the LEO immediately put the guy in handcuffs without discussing anything with him.

An interesting point that one of my co-workers made was why didn't he arrest the other rider? The reason the LEO gave for the arrest, was that the rider didn't stop when told to pull over -- not because he ran the stop sign. This was no different for the second rider.

[robt57]

Show of hands for each of you that always stop your bike and get off the road when you hear a siren coming from behind?

As said in these threads, I would totally just think the LEO got a code 3 dispatch and was in boogie mode in route. Unless I blew a red light, and that isn't likely to ever occur.

I doubt I'd get that immediate response and initial treatment, pretty sure sure I would not. At my age he does not not know who I golf with, if you get my drift. [what justices I may have lunches with on occasion]

[Keith A]

Show of hands for each of you that always stop your bike and get off the road when you hear a siren coming from behind?I don't normally stop, but I do slow down significantly and move as close as possible to the side of the road, and am looking back and prepared to get off the road if necessary.

[mistermo]

Reading comprehension is your friend ...

Don't be obtuse, unless you are disputing that it's harder to hear someone while operating a lawnmower at any distance, than it is to hear someone yelling from 10' inside a car with sirens.

What does a mower have to do with this anyway?

Often there are people who yell at us from their car with no sirens and, thanks to the doppler effect, we have no idea what they've said. But this is irrelevant, just as your lawnmower example.

From the video, there's a moment when these guys *appear* to be waving the cop past. From the time he initially tells them to pull over to the time he pulls over too, it's about 10 seconds. If that's the extent of their evasive maneuvering, they suck, even more-so if they DID hear him. Maybe they clothes-pinned cards in their spokes to sound like a lawnmower? That may explain it.

[Black Dog]

I'm watching the extended video and the BS talk from the larger group of cyclists is just super embarrassing.

I wonder if any of them got tickets for wearing headphones.

The idea you can't hear a siren right behind while you're riding a bicycle is ridiculous.

You can hear that siren doing highway speeds on a motorcycle with a full face helmet + ear plugs.

Father changes his story after the officer realizes the kid is 20 years old and is not a minor? (As if 19 is a minor!) What father can't remember their children's birthdays? Cyclists doing "What if he's deaf?" talk to the officers? Other cyclist refusing to come over when ordered to and flagrantly lying about not running the stop sign?

It just goes on and on, these guys are their own worst enemies.

So you would 100% support the officer receiving a ticket for texting while driving? There is some fault on both sides and the cyclists were not being fully civil and the officer certainly was not. However, one of them is a professional and working in a position of authority with a public trust.

[tuscanyswe]

So you would 100% support the officer receiving a ticket for texting while driving? There is some fault on both sides and the cyclists were not being fully civil and the officer certainly was not. However, one of them is a professional and working in a position of authority with a public trust.

Some fault on both sides haha. The kids are a bit careless which society know that kids and ppl in general are sometimes and for this we have tickets. Thats about the extent to the kids beeing at fault.

The cop is a clown. Anyone really want him to be the cop who pulls over your kid the next time? I doubt it v much.

[Black Dog]

Some fault on both sides haha. The kids are a bit careless which society know that kids and ppl in general are sometimes and for this we have tickets. Thats about the extent to the kids beeing at fault.

The cop is a clown. Anyone really want him to be the cop who pulls over your kid the next time? I doubt it v much.

I was more referring to the groups reaction and the kids language. There is some fault in being less than civil. However, I agree that no real crime was committed and the officer was a stellar example of how not to interact with humans.

[chiasticon]

Show of hands for each of you that always stop your bike and get off the road when you hear a siren coming from behind?I dunno... I try not to roll stop signs in front of cops (or at all, really). but if I had just rolled one, it'd definitely be in my mind the second I heard a siren. "crap! that's not for me, is it?!?" and would start slowing/stopping, just in case.

unless you roll 'em all the time I guess, then you wouldn't even consider that you'd done something wrong.

[tuscanyswe]

I was more referring to the groups reaction and the kids language. There is some fault in being less than civil. However, I agree that no real crime was committed and the officer was a stellar example of how not to interact with humans.

Yeah sorry my comment wasent really towards you in particular. You were just the last person that said something along the lines of " both parties did wrong " and even if thats true in this case and in many others. Its completely beside the point and has very little to do with what the cop did and does very little to justify his behavior.

I think ppl always look to mediate and that puts a few here as somewhere in the middle trying to see both sides even tho they know that the cop is complete jerk and the kid is basicly just riding his bike.

[tomato coupe]

Don't be obtuse, unless you are disputing that it's harder to hear someone while operating a lawnmower at any distance, than it is to hear someone yelling from 10' inside a car with sirens.

What does a mower have to do with this anyway?

I did not introduce mowers into the conversation; I was responding to another post.

Often there are people who yell at us from their car with no sirens and, thanks to the doppler effect, we have no idea what they've said.

There is no Doppler effect when a car pulls up next to you and matches your speed. Even if a car passes you at 60 mph, the Doppler effect does not make voices unintelligible.

[benb]

So you would 100% support the officer receiving a ticket for texting while driving? There is some fault on both sides and the cyclists were not being fully civil and the officer certainly was not. However, one of them is a professional and working in a position of authority with a public trust.

It's pretty ridiculous for them to text at the wheel knowing the camera is going, yes.

What is Florida's law about this? I wouldn't be surprised if there were carve-outs for LEOs in Florida.

I think this is somewhat of a pointless mountain to die on... LEOs have computers in the car a lot of the time that they're using to do their jobs. The use of that computer is 100% as dangerous IMO as using a phone. Around here they literally have a computer on a mount near the center console.

We're not allowed to text while driving here in MA. Never heard of anyone actually getting caught for doing so though. It is rampant and scary.

Also the police officer getting reprimanded for a text would have no effect on the case in question and means nothing as to whether the cyclists were in the wrong.

[wc1934]

Show of hands for each of you that always stop your bike and get off the road when you hear a siren coming from behind?

Never! And given that exact scenario (rolling downhill and no traffic) I wouldn't have stopped either. I would have done exactly the same - feather my brakes, look to see if there were any cars coming and roll on thru.

How about a show of hands of those who would have actually stopped for that stop sign? So neither of those two kids did, but only one was immediately arrested. Don't have to be an Einstein to figure this one out.

[Black Dog]

It's pretty ridiculous for them to text at the wheel knowing the camera is going, yes.

What is Florida's law about this? I wouldn't be surprised if there were carve-outs for LEOs in Florida.

I think this is somewhat of a pointless mountain to die on... LEOs have computers in the car a lot of the time that they're using to do their jobs. The use of that computer is 100% as dangerous IMO as using a phone. Around here they literally have a computer on a mount near the center console.

We're not allowed to text while driving here in MA. Never heard of anyone actually getting caught for doing so though. It is rampant and scary.

Also the police officer getting reprimanded for a text would have no effect on the case in question and means nothing as to whether the cyclists were in the wrong.

I would argue that it is ridiculous regardless of the camera being on or not.

I agree that the texting does not have much to do with the case at hand, my point was that I felt you were saying that they were wrong and should be charged and that there was very little wiggle room. If that is the case then that standard should be applied equally (more so, in fact) to a LEO.

I agree with you fully about the use of the computers built into cruisers while driving and the wholesale abdication of police in enforcement of distracted driving, especially since it is a real scourge (main cause of deaths on the roads).

[gdw]

[QUOTE=wc1934;2656732]Never! And given that exact scenario (rolling downhill and no traffic) I wouldn't have stopped either. I would have done exactly the same - feather my brakes, look to see if there were any cars coming and roll on thru.

How about a show of hands of those who would have actually stopped for that stop sign? So neither of those two kids did, but only one was immediately arrested. Don't have to be an Einstein to figure this one out.[/QUOT

Hell yes I would have stopped. There were two cruisers parked at the intersection that were easy to spot if the riders were paying attention to their surroundings. I don't agree with the deputy's handling of the incident but the young men were definitely in the wrong and the whole sorry affair could easily have been avoided if they had stopped as the state law dictates.

[tuscanyswe]

Never! And given that exact scenario (rolling downhill and no traffic) I wouldn't have stopped either. I would have done exactly the same - feather my brakes, look to see if there were any cars coming and roll on thru.

How about a show of hands of those who would have actually stopped for that stop sign? So neither of those two kids did, but only one was immediately arrested. Don't have to be an Einstein to figure this one out.

Hell yes I would have stopped. There were two cruisers parked at the intersection that were easy to spot if the riders were paying attention to their surroundings. I don't agree with the deputy's handling of the incident but the young men were definitely in the wrong and the whole sorry affair could easily have been avoided if they had stopped as the state law dictates.

Thats some really weird justification / logic.

[robt57]

So you would 100% support the officer receiving a ticket for texting while driving? .

In most states both LEO & EMTs, and even commercial drivers are exempt I recall having read...

[benb]

Never! And given that exact scenario (rolling downhill and no traffic) I wouldn't have stopped either. I would have done exactly the same - feather my brakes, look to see if there were any cars coming and roll on thru.

How about a show of hands of those who would have actually stopped for that stop sign? So neither of those two kids did, but only one was immediately arrested. Don't have to be an Einstein to figure this one out.

100% would have stopped every time. It's a friggin left turn. I admit I occasionally roll a right at a stop sign. Usually feel stupid and hope no one saw me. My weakness is if I can't figure out a way to do an interval without hitting an intersection.

The idea it's safe to roll a left turn through an intersection doesn't make any sense when there's a police car clearly visible in the intersection.

They either:
- are too dumb/entitled to realize they can't get away with running the stop sign in clear sight of an officer standing there with a radar gun. The radar gun is a crystal clear indication they're hanging out for traffic enforcement and not investigating something else.

- They didn't even look at the other streets at the intersection, so they weren't even aware of whether there was other traffic.

If they didn't see the cop waving them to stop they are also not aware enough of their surroundings to be safe running the intersection.

The whole thing with claiming you can't hear sirens and everything is also a glaring sign they're not aware enough of surroundings to be safe. That's why the police officer reacted with it all being BS. Cause it was BS.

Teach your kids not to swear at the police when they get pulled over before they go out riding on their own and/or they get their driver's license. A little bit of civility and street smarts goes a long way.

[BobO]

https://media.giphy.com/media/RL0xU1daTlMoE/giphy.gif

:p

[gdw]

Thats some really weird justification / logic.

Really? Please elaborate. I'm interested to learn why some of you feel you're not subject to state laws when riding on the road.

[tuscanyswe]

Really? Please elaborate. I'm interested to learn why some of you feel you're not subject to state laws when riding on the road.

Because you could apply that logic to every crime ever committed.

Cop beats you up and puts you in hospital because you deducted a non deductable item on your tax report? Yeah well it wouldent have happened had you not cheated on your taxes etc etc.

[gdw]

Because you could apply that logic to every crime ever committed.

Cop beats you up and puts you in hospital because you deducted a non deductable item on your tax report? Yeah well it wouldent have happened had you not cheated on your taxes etc etc.

Wow.

[Gsinill]

Thats some really weird justification / logic.
Really? Please elaborate. I'm interested to learn why some of you feel you're not subject to state laws when riding on the road.


Because he lives in Sweden and not in 'Murica, the country of black or white, good or bad where this:

Yup, some are..and give them anything but yes-sir, no-sir, 3 bags full SIR and bad things CAN happen..They hold all the cards, whether you like it or not, whether you are right or not..

Gotta pick your battles..going toe to toe, while bike riding, to ANY cop is a BAD IDEA...


is and always will be reality.

[tomato coupe]

Wow.

Yeah, it happens a lot more than you think. Police departments are filling their ranks with CPAs, bulking them up, and sending them out into the streets to terrorize tax filers. That's why I always carry a few 1040-X forms with me when I go out in public -- in case I have to file an amended return real quick.

[tuscanyswe]

Yeah like that was my point jeez.

If you reason that whatever happens after you do something that is illegal or a traffic violation and then that how your are treated after the same is really your own fault regardless of the police conduct then there is no point in having a discussion about the behavior of the cop (which is what we are having). Since that could be applied to all crimes / situatons everywhere everyday.

Yes every crime and resulting situation could have been avoided had they not been done in the first place. What has that got to do with anything?

[colker]

This is basically an american forum but just for the sake of adding another angle mostly to those saying "that´s how it is and will always be". In a significant number of countries, cyclists are not under the same traffic laws as drivers; meaning i should stop on a red light IF pedestrians are crossing otherwise i can blast through. It´s not illegal and btw a traffic officer has no jurisdiction over cyclists in many many countries. Otoh texting on your phone while driving is a serious offense and you easily lose your license in those said countries.
NOw let´s pause and think of how many accidents happen from texting and driving and how many are caused by a cyclist blasting through a red light.

[Velocipede]

In most states both LEO & EMTs, and even commercial drivers are exempt I recall having read...

This is sadly correct. Because it has led to accidents including the death of a Google lawyer who was hit and killed by a Sheriffs Deputy in California. The family and community wanted charges filed but the powers that be said he's allowed to drive will texting or holding the phone.

[parris]

Billybob62 There are a few agencies local to me that have pickup trucks like the one in the video. They've been used because those agencies have found the utility of them to be an advantage. Carrying heavy loads, towing trailers, etc. My dept uses suv's for HP deputies and some corrections uses, Impalas for detectives, Vans for Corrections transport and work details. Due to the function of our agency we don't have pickup trucks. What we have instead are larger vehicles. Primarily 6x6 military trucks. Those are and have been used to great effect with some very large floods and other weather events where we do need that type of vehicle. If we need a different type of vehicle it's something that's planned and the Highway department as well as transportation department work well with the Sheriff. It get's us what we need and save's money.

Mistermo I was who brought up the mower at 200 yard example. A PA speaker and mic is a lot easier for people to hear ESPECIALLY when there's wind noise, road noise, and sirens. The PA does well to cut through that kind of distraction.

I stop at every stop sign and red light. I've seen too many people that have not stopped that have gotten zapped and injured when they didn't. If people don't want to stop at red lights and stop signs that's on them and their fault if they get ticketed, injured, injure someone else, or worse. For me personally it's just not worth the risk.

[robt57]

Yeah, it happens a lot more than you think. Police departments are filling their ranks with CPAs, bulking them up, and sending them out into the streets to terrorize tax filers. That's why I always carry a few 1040-X forms with me when I go out in public -- in case I have to file an amended return real quick.

ANALOGY... Escaped you perhaps, but that's fine too.

I guess there is no such thing as the Thumper Doctrine these days here...

[seanile]

This is sadly correct. Because it has led to accidents including the death of a Google lawyer who was hit and killed by a Sheriffs Deputy in California. The family and community wanted charges filed but the powers that be said he's allowed to drive will texting or holding the phone.

close, it was Napster, and the officer was on his laptop. (https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-milton-charges-deputy-20140828-story.html)

interestingly, the officer lied in his initial statement and claimed the cyclist veered into him, and was simply re-assigned after everything was said and done...

[EricChanning]

I've rolled through a lot of stop signs in my 30+ years of cycling. I'd like to think I'm doing it cautiously when I do it. I would never ride with headphones.

Last year, I got popped rolling through a stop sign to make a right turn into a park closed to most vehicular traffic. Within 10 seconds, I had a cruiser behind me. I stopped and took my ticket. He was waiting for someone to come along and do just what I did. I found it annoying because the road to my left was closed completely for repairs and it was probably about the safest place to roll through a stop sign. I don't blame him for doing his job.

I took my ticket and continued on my ride. I ride with the knowledge that I'm not following laws precisely in every occasion because I don't think it always make sense for me to do so. I try to use my own personal judgement and I acknowledge that I may get a ticket for it as part of the price. Hopefully, that's the worst that will ever happen. I know I'm not always in the right but I hope I'm always AWARE of what's happening around me for the most part.

I think that some cyclists break laws and hope to get away with it when they are spotted by the police. If that was the case here, it doesn't make the cop a jerk because he treated it for what he suspected it to be. He knew he wasn't gonna ticket every cyclist breaking the law that day. He likely had to ticket a few guys to set an example and for the purpose of warning other cyclists. I've seen the set up in places where there are fast group rides. Cops are there with a purpose because it's part of their job.

There's a chance the kid was hoping he could get away with it. Cops deal with people all the time who pretend they didn't know they did anything wrong or that they were being pursued with sirens when they got caught.

The cop was annoyed for sure. I could be wrong but I think the kid was only in partial disbelief. The cuffs came out pretty fast as there was likely adrenaline aiding the cop's actions. Sucks it was a felony in this case.

FTR- I'm a 51 year old black guy who's been pulled over for right and wrong reasons. Thankfully, I never got arrested though.

[robt57]

One thing is for sure. 30 years of cycling I have gotten away with many a fudge on traffic controls and lane maneuvers. Even if my sins average 2-3/365 per year. Lets say it has been a sliding ratio...

[tomato coupe]

ANALOGY... Escaped you perhaps, but that's fine too.


HUMOR... Escaped you perhaps, but that's fine too.

[oldpotatoe]

Never! And given that exact scenario (rolling downhill and no traffic) I wouldn't have stopped either. I would have done exactly the same - feather my brakes, look to see if there were any cars coming and roll on thru.

How about a show of hands of those who would have actually stopped for that stop sign? So neither of those two kids did, but only one was immediately arrested. Don't have to be an Einstein to figure this one out.

Hand up here....

Good chance if the kid had STFU, nodded his head, he probably would have gotten a warning..BUT he chose to run his mouth and you saw the result.

[oldpotatoe]

This is basically an american forum but just for the sake of adding another angle mostly to those saying "that´s how it is and will always be". In a significant number of countries, cyclists are not under the same traffic laws as drivers; meaning i should stop on a red light IF pedestrians are crossing otherwise i can blast through. It´s not illegal and btw a traffic officer has no jurisdiction over cyclists in many many countries. Otoh texting on your phone while driving is a serious offense and you easily lose your license in those said countries.
NOw let´s pause and think of how many accidents happen from texting and driving and how many are caused by a cyclist blasting through a red light.

BUT, in the US, they do.
BOTH are illegal...

AND, I'll say it again and last..if the kid had just kept his mouth SHUT, he wouldn't have experienced the back seat of a police cruiser...Do something wrong, and you KNOW it was wrong, in front of a cop, get stopped and then swear and argue..stupid in public ought to be another charge.

[robt57]

HUMOR... Escaped you perhaps, but that's fine too.

Guilty ;O

[colker]

..Do something wrong, and you KNOW it was wrong, in front of a cop, get stopped and then swear and argue..stupid in public ought to be another charge.

Can´t argue w/ that.;) A cop is not out there interested in debating right x wrong.

[raygunner]

This is why I love my AAXN stock!

[William]

Can´t argue w/ that.;) A cop is not out there interested in debating right x wrong.

True, the officers job is not to debate or argue the alleged infraction, that is the job of the judge. That said an officer usually does have a little bit of discretion but getting in their face and behaving rudely isn't likely going to get them to exercise any discretion in the matter.

In my experiences with LEO's in my wilder days I learned early on it was best to just be non-confrontational. I had one incident where my frineds and I were being out of line (that's all I'll say on the matter :) ) and got hauled out of the place by a bunch of under cover State police officers. One of them was obviously trying to provoke us. One of my friends was starting to bite but I was ble to calm him down and keep the situation cool. It would not have been a good outcome had it continued down that path. Two things I've learned interacting with LEO's extensively on both sides of the coin are that one, much of the time the reaction you get is a mirror of your own actions. Two, like any organiztion in the world that involves people, there are good and bad. The good out weighs the bad by many magnitudes, its just the few bad ones that the spotlight gets shined on most of the time are what people remember. There is way more good going down on a daily basis in regards to LEO's across the nation then bad.

Just sayin'







W.

[54ny77]

agree 100%.

not least of which he had headphones in his ears.

lots of dumb all around.

a simple "i'm sorry officer, i ran the stop sign and that was wrong" probably could have gotten him a stern warning and instruction to be safe out there.

instead it was a lot of "what did i do?" and throwing a few f bombs. yeah, that'll go well.

a long time ago i had a state cop come at me full tilt rage one time in new jersey (palisades, off of river rd.) after i clearly blew through a stop sign as well as being on a road prohibited for bikes. it was wide open throttle and blasting sirens, then the car came to a screeching halt behind me. i pulled over, very calmly & quickly then dismounted the bike. i was apologetic, a lot of "yes officer" as well as gave my i.d. and never got argumentative. he ripped me a few new ones then let me go.

it's not that hard to be an adult and admit you're wrong to a cop who's job it is to go after folks doing wrong--however innocuous it may seem (to a cyclist).

I guess I watched a different video than most of you. He blew the stop sign, he's wrong, he didn't pull over, he's wrong, he lied and said I didn't hear you, he's wrong, the bike "gang" confronting the cop, they're wrong. All the B.S. being spouted by others most likely escalated the situation. Let me ask you all this. When you are riding on the road and an emergency vehicle comes by with lights and siren on what do you do? I stop and put a foot down no matter what side of the road I'm on since in my mind that's the same as pulling over to let an emergency vehicle through. So....even if he "really" thought the cop was after "the other car" why did they not stop to let him go by? The cop actually seems pretty calm. Maybe, just maybe if everyone had quit trying to make excuses and owed up (You know be accountable for your actions) to being wrong the guy would have ultimately walked. Is this such a hard thing to understand anymore or is everyone so blinded by hatred for the police?

[rollinslow]

All I can say here is....lawsuit. Only a massive sum of money can make this situation right and that cyclist deserves it. The officer should be fired and potentially charged with a number of possibilities.

[oldpotatoe]

All I can say here is....lawsuit. Only a massive sum of money can make this situation right and that cyclist deserves it. The officer should be fired and potentially charged with a number of possibilities.

Good luck with that. The Police Union is YUGE, with almost unlimited $, a legion of lawyers. BTW-what do ya suppose the LEO should be charged with?
The cyclist with the mouth on him deserves nothing, IMHO..
As I said, he did something wrong, KNEW it was wrong, in front of a cop and then argued complete with f-bombs..yup, he's gonna win a lawsuit against the cop...->not..

[zzy]

Why do I read these threads. If anyone here is okay with a cyclist being tossed aggressively into a cop car for failure to stop we are all in trouble. The cop is the one with the gun and needs to deescalate the situation as he is trained to do. His subsequent behaviour to obscure and mute his body cam says a lot about his intentions. As does how quickly the police released the footage. You should never admit guilt to a cop. Say nothing. It's literally your constitutional right.

[Ralph]

I live in this county. Like I said above....this kid got caught up in something bigger than just his group ride/race.

Cycling is huge in this county. As "big" as anywhere I have seen in the USA. We are also not a large county. And there is a big public backlash against the several large group rides taking place on weekend mornings. From the public's point of view....these groups just take over the roads. So under pressure from local populace, the local police watch them like a hawk. The county has spent millions building an extensive trail network of 12-14' wide paved trails, and the general public does not understand why these groups are not on the trails (Please don't start a discussion about trails....we all know their limitations). And even riding 2 abreast, on a two lane road, backs up traffic, and causes motorists to do dumb things to get around these spread out groups. And the police observe and worry about motorist actions also. Nothing to do with racial profiling, or anything like that. Police are respectful but they have their orders. And are just doing their job.

Personally....I think part of the problem is these large group rides have really become "pack" races. Lose the group, and you will never catch up. I know guys who train like a pro just to be able to ride up front, or even "hang" in there. They don't want to stop for anything. And while most in the groups are responsible riders, we all know how the nature of a group ride changes from ride to race. This needs to change. The small group of 5-6 riders I usually ride with doesn't have this problem.

[jamesdak]

So for the first time in months I left the truck home and took the Bimmer to work this morning. As I was truly enjoying the curves in the canyon and clearly not paying attention to my speed I passed a deputy that pulled me over. Now when his lights came on I looked at my HUD and saw that I was 13 miles OVER the speedlimit. I pulled over, put on my flashers, rolled down my window and turned on my interior lights. I apologized for speeding and making him get out in the cold (8 degrees this morning) and didn't make excuses. He told me to be careful and let me go on my way. Crazy how taking responsibility for your actions and being respectful to a cop works out isn't it???? ;)

I'm still betting if the cyclist had owned up to his mistakes he would have walked. Act stupid with a cop and you might as well expect to get stupid back. The cylist is 100% at fault for everything that happened to him, plain and simple.

[rollinslow]

Good luck with that. The Police Union is YUGE, with almost unlimited $, a legion of lawyers. BTW-what do ya suppose the LEO should be charged with?
The cyclist with the mouth on him deserves nothing, IMHO..
As I said, he did something wrong, KNEW it was wrong, in front of a cop and then argued complete with f-bombs..yup, he's gonna win a lawsuit against the cop...->not..

I agree with you, the cyclist broke the law but the officer abused his power to unlawfully arrest this young man. You can run your mouth all you want, it’s not illegal. There is no evidence of cause for arrest either. If you think the police union is huge, think about the trial attorney legion who is paid for winning cases. The standard is only a majority of jurors to win a large financial sum for things like police misconduct and abuse of force. You cannot just arrest citizens without cause in the US or because you don’t like their attitude. There was zero here to justify arrest and that’s why this case was quickly picked up by a bike-specific law firm. Usually when citizens are unlawfully arrested there is compensation.

Equally important is was this cyclist singled out, was it his hair? Ethnicity? The fact he was a cyclist? Does the officer have a history of prejudice toward a particular group? Has he been accused or reprimanded before of abuse of power etc? You better bet they are pouring over these records. These are all fair questions that must be addressed to determine why the massive one sided escalation without cause. There is no other rational explanation for arresting someone for a minor traffic violation.

He was charged with a felony, that is insane for rolling a stop sign and running your mouth.

[mistermo]

I live in this county. Like I said above....this kid got caught up in something bigger than just his group ride/race.

Cycling is huge in this county. As "big" as anywhere I have seen in the USA. We are also not a large county. And there is a big public backlash against the several large group rides taking place on weekend mornings. From the public's point of view....these groups just take over the roads. So under pressure from local populace, the local police watch them like a hawk. The county has spent millions building an extensive trail network of 12-14' wide paved trails, and the general public does not understand why these groups are not on the trails (Please don't start a discussion about trails....we all know their limitations). And even riding 2 abreast, on a two lane road, backs up traffic, and causes motorists to do dumb things to get around these spread out groups. And the police observe and worry about motorist actions also. Nothing to do with racial profiling, or anything like that. Police are respectful but they have their orders. And are just doing their job.

Personally....I think part of the problem is these large group rides have really become "pack" races. Lose the group, and you will never catch up. I know guys who train like a pro just to be able to ride up front, or even "hang" in there. They don't want to stop for anything. And while most in the groups are responsible riders, we all know how the nature of a group ride changes from ride to race. This needs to change. The small group of 5-6 riders I usually ride with doesn't have this problem.

Reading the public comments to the video posted supports your statement too. It seems the public has had enough of these cyclists taking over the roads. The comments had general support for the cop.

I'm bewildered what the public would propose instead. These riders appeared to be in a less dense area, and it's a Saturday(?) morning. Where else is better?

We get the same attitudes of motorists around here, but fortunately we have city government that is more willing to work with cyclists and actually is doing their part to promote it: more bike lanes, mayor's breakfast ride, more paths, etc. We also benefit from having perennial NCAA cycling champion Marian University (http://www.muknights.com/sport/0/21) in Indianapolis, which offers city something to be proud of, cycling wise. Point is, it's a cultural thing. Some places have it, some don't.

[oldpotatoe]

I agree with you, the cyclist broke the law but the officer abused his power to unlawfully arrest this young man. You can run your mouth all you want, it’s not illegal. There is no evidence of cause for arrest either. If you think the police union is huge, think about the trial attorney legion who is paid for winning cases. The standard is only a majority of jurors to win a large financial sum for things like police misconduct and abuse of force. You cannot just arrest citizens without cause in the US or because you don’t like their attitude. There was zero here to justify arrest and that’s why this case was quickly picked up by a bike-specific law firm. Usually when citizens are unlawfully arrested there is compensation.

Equally important is was this cyclist singled out, was it his hair? Ethnicity? The fact he was a cyclist? Does the officer have a history of prejudice toward a particular group? Has he been accused or reprimanded before of abuse of power etc? You better bet they are pouring over these records. These are all fair questions that must be addressed to determine why the massive one sided escalation without cause. There is no other rational explanation for arresting someone for a minor traffic violation.
-Sometimes yes, sometimes no..I wouldn't day 'usually'..'unlawfully', is the open question.
-Who?
-It wasn't 'without cause', nor one sided...the other kid, who stayed quiet, walked.
-That's not why he was arrested.

LOOK, I agree that the LEO went high order too soon, too fast and too much. BUT, the FACT remains, that the kid broke the law, KNEW he broke the law, did it in front of a LEO and then proceeded to f-bomb the guy for NO REASON'....IF the LEO had smacked the kid, or pulled his HG, or any of a number of other, more violent things..a lawsuit 'might' be appropriate. BUT the LEO handcuffed him(what LEO do everyday when 'detaining' somebody), and put him in a cruiser...

BUT, the kid nor the family will sue the police department. The LEO won't be fired. The kid will get his day in court(maybe, the DA might just throw it out) and be released with a stern talking to be the judge.

[Morgul Bismark]

I'm bewildered what the public would propose instead. These riders appeared to be in a less dense area, and it's a Saturday(?) morning. Where else is better?
Zwift :bike:

[Ralph]

One deputy told me recently his main concern was some enraged motorist plowing into a group. He mentioned his main job was public safety.

[glepore]

Ok, this won't go over big with my former colleagues (Bike Law attorneys) but as mentioned before, in interacting with LEO's 90% of the time you get what you give.

Kid blows stop without even slowing. Earbuds in. Doesn't pull over. Then, rather than "geez officer I'm really sorry, that was a dumbazz move (which it was, nobody can credibly argue otherwise) he goes into confrontational mode. And the peanut gallery? Rather than being respectful they challenge, challenge challenge.

Now, I don't agree with charging fleeing and eluding. But I actually thought the officer acted respectfully and professionally when the group pushed back.

Yes, the kid should be given a little slack for his youth. But the cops hate to chase. Its not just the ignoring authority thing. Its the gradual escalation of the situation. Shoot, I once got out of a ticket (deserved, late for a ride and speeding) by pulling over before the trooper had to even move.

I really think this is why bad cops are such a plague on society. Their actions cause normal folks to lose respect, and those in targeted minorities even more so. We stop treating each other as humans and with mutual respect as a result, ending in sad stuff like this. Every reasonable cop I know or have interacted with feels the same.

[azrider]

To suggest a lawsuit or to think that a lawsuit is even remotely appropriate is absolutely bonkers.

Good grief........

https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/280.jpg

[charliedid]

Ok, this won't go over big with my former colleagues (Bike Law attorneys) but as mentioned before, in interacting with LEO's 90% of the time you get what you give.

Kid blows stop without even slowing. Earbuds in. Doesn't pull over. Then, rather than "geez officer I'm really sorry, that was a dumbazz move (which it was, nobody can credibly argue otherwise) he goes into confrontational mode. And the peanut gallery? Rather than being respectful they challenge, challenge challenge.

Now, I don't agree with charging fleeing and eluding. But I actually thought the officer acted respectfully and professionally when the group pushed back.

Yes, the kid should be given a little slack for his youth. But the cops hate to chase. Its not just the ignoring authority thing. Its the gradual escalation of the situation. Shoot, I once got out of a ticket (deserved, late for a ride and speeding) by pulling over before the trooper had to even move.

I really think this is why bad cops are such a plague on society. Their actions cause normal folks to lose respect, and those in targeted minorities even more so. We stop treating each other as humans and with mutual respect as a result, ending in sad stuff like this. Every reasonable cop I know or have interacted with feels the same.

I wouldn't categorize that as "blowing" a stop sign given the fact that they slowed to a crawl and proceeded with caution through a seemingly quiet sign. I also think the video shows a scared kid more than resisting arrest.

And sorry, I think it does matter that the latino kid gets popped but the white kid gets to roll away like nothing ever happened after simply telling the cop that he stopped. I mean it's not like the second rider was 50 feet behind. The Cop could easily have had a teachable moment with this group given the paltry offense and created a bit of goodwill.

I bet my officer friends who are bike cops would agree with me on this one.

[rollinslow]

To suggest a lawsuit or to think that a lawsuit is even remotely appropriate is absolutely bonkers.

Good grief........


This is not North Korea. Citizens have rights. We do not arrest kids who are out riding with their parent for rolling through a stop sign and talking back. He should be compensated once charges are inevitably dropped.

[R3awak3n]

I wouldn't categorize that as "blowing" a stop sign given the fact that they slowed to a crawl and proceeded with caution through a seemingly quiet sign. I also think the video shows a scared kid more than resisting arrest.

And sorry, I think it does matter that the latino kid gets popped but the white kid gets to roll away like nothing ever happened after simply telling the cop that he stopped. I mean it's not like the second rider was 50 feet behind. The Cop could easily have had a teachable moment with this group given the paltry offense and created a bit of goodwill.

I bet my officer friends who are bike cops would agree with me on this one.

very well said.


we also don't need stories how you got let go from doing something illegal just being nice to the cop. Different time, different place, different person, different cop... no comparison

[parris]

It doesn't matter if the cyclist that got arrested blew through the stop or just rolled through the stop sign. He and his buddy behind him did not stop at a stop sign. Ralph brings up a number of good points and local knowledge to the post. Thank you for the local perspective.

I'm going to toss something out that clicked as I was reading the latest few additions to the post which could be wildly wrong and completely off base.

I don't think the cyclist got arrested because of a racial element. I think his buddy that was with him didn't get arrested because the LEO focused on the first cyclist running the stop sign and wasn't sure about the second cyclist. If the second cyclist DID stop but get arrested anyway the LEO would be in hot water as soon as the body and dash cam footage was reviewed.

What I think could be a factor in the arrest was the cyclist's age. I think that if the cyclist had been someone say 30-45 the LEO would have interacted in a different way than someone younger and easily intimidated. I'm surprised in just how fast the LEO cuffed the cyclist. There was little communication before he went to cuffs. If it was someone who had more life under their belt I'm just guessing that the LEO would've talked a bit more before cuffing the person.

There was a communication barrier. I'm not focusing on the language barrier as much as 2 way communication. In order for communication to happen, both parties need to be involved. I've seen it time and again where something happens inside and due to noise, confusion, etc the message the officer is trying to tell the inmate just doesn't get through. I've had incidents that have been completely diffused by those of us that are senior staff due to learned communication skills. The LEO and cyclist in the video both got locked into an loop of saying words but comprehension was totally lost.

The group of cyclists didn't help things after they saw what was going down. Their actions though really aren't any different than if there was a group outside a bar, in a mall, etc. That being said the backup officer should've dealt with them so that the arresting officer could focus his attention on the cyclist he was arresting and the father. The primary LEO ping ponging between the 3 parties cyclist, cyclists father, and group added to more confusion. The LEO would've been better served to ask his backup to talk to and deal with the cycling group.

Just some random thoughts on the subject. Like I said they could be completely wrong and off base.

[AngryScientist]

I live in this county. Like I said above....this kid got caught up in something bigger than just his group ride/race.

Cycling is huge in this county. As "big" as anywhere I have seen in the USA. We are also not a large county. And there is a big public backlash against the several large group rides taking place on weekend mornings. From the public's point of view....these groups just take over the roads. So under pressure from local populace, the local police watch them like a hawk. The county has spent millions building an extensive trail network of 12-14' wide paved trails, and the general public does not understand why these groups are not on the trails (Please don't start a discussion about trails....we all know their limitations). And even riding 2 abreast, on a two lane road, backs up traffic, and causes motorists to do dumb things to get around these spread out groups. And the police observe and worry about motorist actions also. Nothing to do with racial profiling, or anything like that. Police are respectful but they have their orders. And are just doing their job.

Personally....I think part of the problem is these large group rides have really become "pack" races. Lose the group, and you will never catch up. I know guys who train like a pro just to be able to ride up front, or even "hang" in there. They don't want to stop for anything. And while most in the groups are responsible riders, we all know how the nature of a group ride changes from ride to race. This needs to change. The small group of 5-6 riders I usually ride with doesn't have this problem.

you know i was thinking about this.

how about if there is a lot of public complaints, some representative from the police office, or town office contact the ride leaders or the bike club and set up a little town meeting or something like that.

try and get both sides to talk, come to mutual agreement.

not passive aggressive posting cops to ticket and arrest people to make the public happy.

bring people together and discuss the issues. sounds crazy, but might work!

stopping a group with a large show of force and arresting the kid just created more bad blood.

[azrider]

This is not North Korea. Citizens have rights. We do not arrest kids who are out riding with their parent for rolling through a stop sign and talking back. He should be compensated once charges are inevitably dropped.

Comparing what transpired in that video to North Korea is just embarrassing.

[Dead Man]

So for the first time in months I left the truck home and took the Bimmer to work this morning. As I was truly enjoying the curves in the canyon and clearly not paying attention to my speed I passed a deputy that pulled me over. Now when his lights came on I looked at my HUD and saw that I was 13 miles OVER the speedlimit. I pulled over, put on my flashers, rolled down my window and turned on my interior lights. I apologized for speeding and making him get out in the cold (8 degrees this morning) and didn't make excuses. He told me to be careful and let me go on my way. Crazy how taking responsibility for your actions and being respectful to a cop works out isn't it???? ;)

I'm still betting if the cyclist had owned up to his mistakes he would have walked. Act stupid with a cop and you might as well expect to get stupid back. The cylist is 100% at fault for everything that happened to him, plain and simple.

mm yea.. lick them boots.

[parris]

Dead Man How is what Jamesdak did licking boots? The man made a mistake, owned up to the mistake, and was willing to take the hit for the mistake.

[Red Tornado]

you know i was thinking about this.

how about if there is a lot of public complaints, some representative from the police office, or town office contact the ride leaders or the bike club and set up a little town meeting or something like that.

try and get both sides to talk, come to mutual agreement.

not passive aggressive posting cops to ticket and arrest people to make the public happy.

bring people together and discuss the issues. sounds crazy, but might work!

stopping a group with a large show of force and arresting the kid just created more bad blood.

Will never happen. It makes way too much sense lol.

[azrider]

Dead Man How is what Jamesdak did licking boots? The man made a mistake, owned up to the mistake, and was willing to take the hit for the mistake.

Don't waste your time. There's no reasoning with someone who thinks that kind of response is ok.

[benb]

This is still 99% about how hard of a time the officer had getting them to pull over. Why they were being pulled over had very little to do with getting arrested.

They:
Ignored the verbal order at the stop sign from an officer in uniform.
Sirens (Marked vehicle) go on for nearly a minute
Ignored the verbal order from the officer when he was driving next to them (kid #1 apparently gesturing back at the officer, this might be really important)
Only stopped when the officer put his vehicle in front of them and forced them to stop

He probably got charged with "General Fleeing & Eluding: Lights and Sirens Activated."

The sirens being on in a marked vehicle actually sounds like it elevates the severity in Florida.

[GregL]

mm yea.. lick them boots.
Not so much licking boots as showing respect and accountability. I have received warnings (and happily no tickets) for speeding violations six (6) times in my adult life. Five of the violations were valid (10-15 MPH over the limit) and the sixth was a case of equipment error or pulling over the wrong vehicle (I saw the trooper over a mile away and did not exceed the speed limit before or after I saw her). In all six cases, a polite, friendly conversation with the officer led to a warning to slow down (five incidents) or a simple "have a nice day and drive safely" in the last case. As jamesdak said, hands on the wheel, lights on in the car, STAY IN THE CAR, and let the LEO know if you are going to reach for your wallet and license. If you are polite with the LEO and help them feel safe, the outcome will likely be positive for all parties.

Greg

[tuscanyswe]

I have only gotten a single ticket ever for driving my car or riding my bike (was on the bike) and i likely run 100s of redlights every day (on the bike never in car). I have been stopped in excess of 20 at least times but im always polite i dont try evade or ride away etc etc. So all but once they have let me off the hook.

So yeah beeing polite and not talking back etc will ofc help, is this really what we are discussing?

Because for me even if i behave in a manner that gets me off the hook usually with an officer it has no bearing on how i think an officer should behave with someone who does not know how to behave to get the best outcome of the same situation.

The cop has a responsibility as well and that is what we should be focusing on, he clearly did not live up to it. He is a jerk. Us knowing police officers can be that if we give them a chance does not let them off the hook for actually beeing just that when they are. At least not from my point of view.

[cash05458]

"how about if there is a lot of public complaints, some representative from the police office, or town office contact the ride leaders or the bike club and set up a little town meeting or something like that."

This^...great idea and prolly would have taken alot less time than this whole fiasco by the time the guy took him in, booked him,and everything else that goes along with it...much better way of proactively dealing with these situations...and no way do I think the kid should have been arrested, but that group certainly didn't help the situation as well...

[windsurfer]

Again, if you listen to what the cops says, he had decided this was felony evasion in the first few seconds before he even got in his truck to chase them down. That explains how he approached the kid which drove how the kid reacted.

All of the talking and disrespect by the group certainly did not help diffuse the situation, but in the cops mind, it was over and the decision was made.

Too bad there is no sound at the beginning, without sound all you see is a weak hand gesture. No tell I g if the cyclists saw that and realized the meaning or what.

[Tony]

I wouldn't categorize that as "blowing" a stop sign given the fact that they slowed to a crawl and proceeded with caution through a seemingly quiet sign. I also think the video shows a scared kid more than resisting arrest.

And sorry, I think it does matter that the latino kid gets popped but the white kid gets to roll away like nothing ever happened after simply telling the cop that he stopped. I mean it's not like the second rider was 50 feet behind. The Cop could easily have had a teachable moment with this group given the paltry offense and created a bit of goodwill.

I bet my officer friends who are bike cops would agree with me on this one.

Yes, the kid was rushed hastily and handcuffed while still on the bike!
You don't see that to often.

[mistermo]

did it in front of a LEO and then proceeded to f-bomb the guy for NO REASON'....

We're diverting from the facts shown in the video. Let's recalibrate:

They blew the stop, we all agree.

The cop waives at them to stop, at :06, but the arrested rider is already past intersection (photo) and clearly can't see gestures. There's no audio at this point, so we don't know what cop said, or not. "Kid" had earphones anyway.

From the time the cop turns onto the road in his cruiser, to the time he catches them and yells out the window for them to stop, it takes 30 seconds.

From the time cop yells at them to pull over from the cruiser (sirens on), to the time they do, it's 10 seconds. Sirens off 3 seconds later. Ten seconds is hardly resisting arrest or his orders.

As the cop approaches them, he asks them why they didn't stop. The "kid" answers that he did. Obviously they did, about 10 seconds after he commanded, even though it's plausible they couldn't hear, because of sirens.

Importantly, the kid DOES NOT F bomb cop, leading to handcuffs. Instead, the cop approaches and grabs "kids" arms, to place in handcuffs. The "kid" says "What the F?" when this happens. This was the reaction, not the instigation.

Even so, "What the F?" which isn't a direct insult the the cop, rather a reaction to being grabbed for no evident reason (to him) and placed in cuffs. There's an enormous difference between saying "What the F?" and "F you". Both are F bombs, but both have widely different meanings. All F bombs are not alike.

The "kid" blows sign, is chased, pulls over, apprehended, cuffed and arrested all in less than 2mins. I think we can all say that he never resisted arrest.

While the use of the F-word never helps anyone, it's clear that's not what led to his being cuffed or arrested, since F bomb happened after. And, he wasn't verbally attacking the cop, ever. He was expressing confusion about the situation, even more understandable since he seems to have some difficulty with English.

Pic below was captured the instant the cops hand appears in the video.

[djdj]

We're diverting from the facts shown in the video. Let's recalibrate:

They blew the stop, we all agree.

The cop waives at them to stop, at :06, but the arrested rider is already past intersection (photo) and clearly can't see gestures. There's no audio at this point, so we don't know what cop said, or not. "Kid" had earphones anyway.

From the time the cop turns onto the road in his cruiser, to the time he catches them and yells out the window for them to stop, it takes 30 seconds.

From the time cop yells at them to pull over from the cruiser (sirens on), to the time they do, it's 10 seconds. Sirens off 3 seconds later. Ten seconds is hardly resisting arrest or his orders.

As the cop approaches them, he asks them why they didn't stop. The "kid" answers that he did. Obviously they did, about 10 seconds after he commanded, even though it's plausible they couldn't hear, because of sirens.

Importantly, the kid DOES NOT F bomb cop, leading to handcuffs. Instead, the cop approaches and grabs "kids" arms, to place in handcuffs. The "kid" says "What the F?" when this happens. This was the reaction, not the instigation.

Even so, "What the F?" which isn't a direct insult the the cop, rather a reaction to being grabbed for no evident reason (to him) and placed in cuffs. There's an enormous difference between saying "What the F?" and "F you". Both are F bombs, but both have widely different meanings. All F bombs are not alike.

The "kid" blows sign, is chased, pulls over, apprehended, cuffed and arrested all in less than 2mins. I think we can all say that he never resisted arrest.

While the use of the F-word never helps anyone, it's clear that's not what led to his being cuffed or arrested, since it happened after. And, he wasn't verbally attacking the cop, ever. He was expressing confusion about the situation, even more understandable since he seems to have some difficulty with English.

Pic below was captured the instant the cops hand appears in the video.

And here you are letting the facts get in the way! Thank you.

[jamesdak]

Dead Man How is what Jamesdak did licking boots? The man made a mistake, owned up to the mistake, and was willing to take the hit for the mistake.


LOL, he's not even worth addressing. :)

Having a brother in law that was a cop, friends or friends kids that are cops, and evening dating one myself years I go I have empathy for them. I know that they have to approach every car at a traffic stop without really knowing what may happen. So when I CAUSE that by being stupid and speeding I damn sure owe the cop my respect and consideration, plain and simple. I'm a retired soldier and I know what all that stress and anxiety you suppress (unknowing even) over the years does to you when you get older.

[BobO]

SCOTUS has ruled that it is not illegal to swear at the police, or anyone else for that matter. It is in fact protected speech under 1A. Though it is generally unwise while dealing with police.

[azrider]

Isn't it illegal to have headphones in both ears while on road ??

serious question

[BobO]

Isn't it illegal to have headphones in both ears while on road ??

serious question

I don't know, but it is stupid as hell.

[azrider]

SCOTUS has ruled that it is not illegal to swear at the police, or anyone else for that matter. It is in fact protected speech under 1A. Though it is generally unwise while dealing with police.

I believe the saying goes something like "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" ;):p

[benb]

He was in pursuit for 1 minute with the siren on. That's an eternity on a road like that when he's in a truck and they're on a bike.

They did not stop till he got in front and brake checked them. That's where this comes in. You can see this the way he accelerates to catch them, matches speed, yells at them, and then has to speed up again to get in front of them.

Who here has ever made a cop get in front of them and force them to stop when getting pulled over?

I think if the kid says he's sorry and stuff this should all get dropped. They are young and stupid. No real harm was done, and he shouldn't need to get convicted for the lesson to be learned.

I bet that group starts paying attention to the rules of the road though...

[colker]

I have only gotten a single ticket ever for driving my car or riding my bike (was on the bike) and i likely run 100s of redlights every day (on the bike never in car). I have been stopped in excess of 20 at least times but im always polite i dont try evade or ride away etc etc. So all but once they have let me off the hook.

So yeah beeing polite and not talking back etc will ofc help, is this really what we are discussing?

Because for me even if i behave in a manner that gets me off the hook usually with an officer it has no bearing on how i think an officer should behave with someone who does not know how to behave to get the best outcome of the same situation.

The cop has a responsibility as well and that is what we should be focusing on, he clearly did not live up to it. He is a jerk. Us knowing police officers can be that if we give them a chance does not let them off the hook for actually beeing just that when they are. At least not from my point of view.

I would agree w/ that if it happened out of the blue.. It would seem like a bored cop decided to go sadistic on a latino cycling teenager. BUT there is a backstory where town is receiving neverending complaints from tax payers/voters. Next chief tells another chief "i need results/ do something". It translates all the way to that cop in the car waiting for any cyclist to break any law. The kid reacts. Results are needed. There you go. Are there holes created by cop to reverse this thing? Possibly.
My point? It´s less the cop. It´s more the city having a bad feeling from group riders.

[benb]

I would agree w/ that if it happened out of the blue.. It would seem like a bored cop decided to go sadistic on a latino cycling teenager. BUT there is a backstory where town is receiving neverending complaints from tax payers/voters. Next chief tells another chief "i need results/ do something". It translates all the way to that cop in the car waiting for any cyclist to break any law. The kid reacts. Results are needed. There you go. Are there holes created by cop to reverse this thing? Possibly.

I think he's going to be worse off if they lawyer up and fight this. The cops & judge will be pissed and fight back.

He's young, he's from out of town, if they own up to it and say sorry I would hope the judge dismisses the Felony and reduces it to a ticket for running the stop sign.

A smart lawyer will make them go for #2 I'd hope. The injustice would be if he still gets the book thrown at him after all that.

[cash05458]

I believe the saying goes something like "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" ;):p

sure, but what does that really say about using "bad language" around cops leads to more trouble? Most of the cops I know have mouths like sailors...this shouldn't have to do with anything...angry, aggressive talk and upping the situation...sure, I get it...but using a "naughty" word? please...life ain't the f-ing hallmark channel after all...

[redir]

And they wonder why they get called pigs sometimes. He's going to give an 18 year old boy a Felony becasue of his chip on the shoulder ego.

[wc1934]

I believe the saying goes something like "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" ;):p

Are you referring to the police and their arrest powers? ;)

[R3awak3n]

We're diverting from the facts shown in the video. Let's recalibrate:

They blew the stop, we all agree.

The cop waives at them to stop, at :06, but the arrested rider is already past intersection (photo) and clearly can't see gestures. There's no audio at this point, so we don't know what cop said, or not. "Kid" had earphones anyway.

From the time the cop turns onto the road in his cruiser, to the time he catches them and yells out the window for them to stop, it takes 30 seconds.

From the time cop yells at them to pull over from the cruiser (sirens on), to the time they do, it's 10 seconds. Sirens off 3 seconds later. Ten seconds is hardly resisting arrest or his orders.

As the cop approaches them, he asks them why they didn't stop. The "kid" answers that he did. Obviously they did, about 10 seconds after he commanded, even though it's plausible they couldn't hear, because of sirens.

Importantly, the kid DOES NOT F bomb cop, leading to handcuffs. Instead, the cop approaches and grabs "kids" arms, to place in handcuffs. The "kid" says "What the F?" when this happens. This was the reaction, not the instigation.

Even so, "What the F?" which isn't a direct insult the the cop, rather a reaction to being grabbed for no evident reason (to him) and placed in cuffs. There's an enormous difference between saying "What the F?" and "F you". Both are F bombs, but both have widely different meanings. All F bombs are not alike.

The "kid" blows sign, is chased, pulls over, apprehended, cuffed and arrested all in less than 2mins. I think we can all say that he never resisted arrest.

While the use of the F-word never helps anyone, it's clear that's not what led to his being cuffed or arrested, since F bomb happened after. And, he wasn't verbally attacking the cop, ever. He was expressing confusion about the situation, even more understandable since he seems to have some difficulty with English.

Pic below was captured the instant the cops hand appears in the video.


this! 100 million times.

[azrider]

Are you referring to the police and their arrest powers? ;)

well played

https://media2.giphy.com/media/RdJrNFzYjmryo/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611e52df2c1f746ce92fcb56d1f16f2 1675cfdb7076&rid=giphy.gif

[2LeftCleats]

Paris comments about the miscommunication, talking past each other, reminded me of Malcolm Gladwell’s new book, “Talking to Strangers”. Describes exactly how we misunderstand one another, sometimes with terrible consequences. Some of his case studies involve police-citizen interactions gone astray. This episode sounds like it came from the book. Worth a read.

[cash05458]

as an aside...via police and small stuff and attention to details...I live in a rural place....very rich...huge force...12 full time cops with not many folks and an area with really just no real crime at all...and the no crime thing was like that before the department started hiring more and more...anyhow, a few months ago, 3 squad cars pull up to my neighbors house..I go out on porch and see a cop I know from force: "hey, what's up?"...truancy!...turns out the 14 year old goth girl from next door didn't show up to class that day...so I then ask him why three cars? and he says "you never know when things might get outta hand and need some backup..." Sure, law and order...right...sorry, but sometimes the barney fife stuff is very applicable...other times not of course...

[mistermo]

This is still 99% about how hard of a time the officer had getting them to pull over. Why they were being pulled over had very little to do with getting arrested.

They:
Ignored the verbal order at the stop sign from an officer in uniform.
Sirens (Marked vehicle) go on for nearly a minute
Ignored the verbal order from the officer when he was driving next to them (kid #1 apparently gesturing back at the officer, this might be really important)
Only stopped when the officer put his vehicle in front of them and forced them to stop

He probably got charged with "General Fleeing & Eluding: Lights and Sirens Activated."

The sirens being on in a marked vehicle actually sounds like it elevates the severity in Florida.

This assertion is patently false, as my post illustrates.

1. Because audio is off, we never hear whether there was verbal order to stop, or not. Even if there was, they had earplugs in. We can see from the picture, that the motion to pull over was offered AFTER first rider was past.

2. While sirens are on, and after cop yells at them to pull over, 10 seconds elapsed. This is not resisting arrest of presenting a challenge to the cop's order. And if you watch video, you can see cop is still speeding when his first order comes out. Second order, came after he slowed down alongside them.

3. You can see from the way the cop walks around his truck that they are stopped alongside, to the front. He's clearly not in FRONT of them.

4. The cop is putting him in handcuffs before the first, "what the F?" is offered. It was NOT as a result of the F word.

There's plenty that can be speculated, but get your facts straight.

[Rusty Luggs]

I gotta believe many comments on this thread were from people who hadn't actually watched the video, which I have to say is pretty typical of this forum.

I sent the link to the video, not to this forum, to a long time LEO friend who quickly ticked off a list of half a dozen things cop was wrong about.

pointless to list them all as folks here are entrenched in their own thought processes, but a few quick favorite quotes from my very straight speaking LE friend:

"The cop was wrong, it's a no brainer..."
"Resisting arrest?? Really ? While straddling a bike? (P***y cop)"
"In 30 yrs I used resisting/interfering with officer 1-time."

[benb]

I've watched that video 4-5x.

My interpretation is different than yours.

If they fight it they'll have to prove your version in court. :beer:

This is the arrest report:

https://hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/files/javier-lopez-ayala-arrest-report-1581608627.pdf

[mistermo]

I've watched that video 4-5x.

My interpretation is different than yours.

If they fight it they'll have to prove your version in court. :beer:

Correct. Don't interpret. Jot down the facts:

Look at the position of the riders the first time cops gesture appears in video. "Kid" was already past.

Look at time when cop turns onto the road, then time to when he catches "kids". It's not one minute, closer to 30 seconds.

Look at when he puts "kid" in handcuffs, then when "kid" says first f word. Cuffs are first.

Look at the time elapsed from when he yells pull over, to the time he turns off road himself. ~10 seconds.

Look at where "kids" stop relative to his truck. He's not in front of them.

These aren't interpretations, these are facts. There's plenty of room for speculation, but speculation should be based on the facts.

And thankfully, they won't have to prove my version, cop will have to prove his. "Kid's" innocent until proven guilty. The only thing that has been proven is that he blew the stop sign.

[cash05458]

what is sorta funny and interesting is some of the folks on here with the break the law, any law attitude and if you don't you are fine but if you do then take the consequences etc stuff...and then going on to say "well, I was real polite to the officer when he pulled me over for breaking the law and I then got away with no ticket..." Actually, if you guys are so law and order and morally upstanding what you ought to doing is be sending the local court the amount for the ticket that you SHOULD have been given...but who would ever do that right? The moral judgements here with some are pretty loose...

[GregL]

Isn't it illegal to have headphones in both ears while on road ??

serious question
In Florida, yes (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.304.html).

Greg

[Tony]

And they wonder why they get called pigs sometimes. He's going to give an 18 year old boy a Felony becasue of his chip on the shoulder ego.

Destroy this kids life with a felony that will follow him forever, so wrong.

[parris]

Mistermo thanks for the breakdown of the video times. I knew it wasn't long but your timestamps snap things into a sharper focus.

[GregL]

what is sorta funny and interesting is some of the folks on here with the break the law, any law attitude and if you don't you are fine but if you do then take the consequences etc stuff...and then going on to say "well, I was real polite to the officer when he pulled me over for breaking the law and I then got away with no ticket..." Actually, if you guys are so law and order and morally upstanding what you ought to doing is be sending the local court the amount for the ticket that you SHOULD have been given...but who would ever do that right? The moral judgements here with some are pretty loose...
Nice try, but no. What I'm saying is that politeness and accountability often lead to a better outcome when dealing with law enforcement professionals. I also learned a lesson from my warnings and don't drive as fast as I did when I was a 20-something (when five of my six speeding violations happened). Do I think that the officer who arrested the young cyclist in this discussion was overzealous? Yes. It's quite a stretch to consider that he was resisting arrest while straddling his bike after he was pulled over! At the same time, had the riders immediately pulled over and apologized for their actions, we may never have had this long thread. No way to know. Hopefully a DA will throw out the resisting arrest charge before it gets to a judge.

Greg

[benb]

Look at where "kids" stop relative to his truck. He's not in front of them.


Have you had a car brake check you before? In traffic? Pretty sure they knew finally realized they needed to stop and that riding around his stopped truck was going to be even more trouble, and they came to a stop next to him, which is intelligent cycling. You don't stop behind or directly in front of a motor vehicle ever on a road if you value your life. Lots of people (especially first responders) have died that way when another car comes along and hits the stopped motor vehicle.


And thankfully, they won't have to prove my version, cop will have to prove his. "Kid's" innocent until proven guilty. The only thing that has been proven is that he blew the stop sign.

I hope the news updates it. The cop dotted every i and crossed every t for that charge in the report. There is video evidence, I do think there is some leeway in the video evidence, but if the officer testifies they are going to have to accuse him of lying and make that stick cause the video doesn't necessarily support the idea that they were not fleeing either.

If there is another video from the 2nd police car that pulled up behind that would probably be definitive proof of one story or the other.

[cash05458]

Nice try, but no. What I'm saying is that politeness and accountability often lead to a better outcome when dealing with law enforcement professionals. I also learned a lesson from my warnings and don't drive as fast as I did when I was a 20-something (when five of my six speeding violations happened). Do I think that the officer who arrested the young cyclist in this discussion was overzealous? Yes. It's quite a stretch to consider that he was resisting arrest while straddling his bike after he was pulled over! At the same time, had the riders immediately pulled over and apologized for their actions, we may never have had this long thread. No way to know. Hopefully a DA will throw out the resisting arrest charge before it gets to a judge.

Greg

Yeah, good point...warnings do lead to lessons...hopefully...which is precisely what this cop should have done...not sure why some keep sticking to some fiction this kid was asking for it from the cop...

[windsurfer]

A fair amount of spin on the arrest report as well. Clearly the cop knew this was going to be problematic.

[thwart]

A fair amount of spin on the arrest report as well. Clearly the cop knew this was going to be problematic.

Wow. That has to be the understatement of the week.

The LEO has exaggerated and/or fabricated some of that info. He needs to be disciplined, IMO. His actions reflect negatively on his profession.

And the kids need a ticket for running the sign.

[mistermo]

Have you had a car brake check you before? In traffic? Pretty sure they knew finally realized they needed to stop and that riding around his stopped truck was going to be even more trouble, and they came to a stop next to him, which is intelligent cycling. You don't stop behind or directly in front of a motor vehicle ever on a road if you value your life. Lots of people (especially first responders) have died that way when another car comes along and hits the stopped motor vehicle.



This is precisely the point I'm trying to get you to acknowledge. Your comments above are 100% your assumption. NONE of this is shown in the video. The camera is pointed at the steering wheel of the truck. You can see trees, and his steering gestures, but you can't see the road, or reliably see where the cyclists are. You can hear his commands, and see the speed of his truck based on how fast the trees are going by, but you can't see ANYTHING on the road, except for a quick glimpse of a helmet.

No doubt you'll stick to your narrative, but the facts don't show any of the the assertions you're making. There's NO video of what happens on the road, which makes this unsubstantiated conjecture.

[jtbadge]

Sorry, but this theory of "behave and cops will treat you fairly" is total bunk. This narrative is spouted over and over again, while innocent people (disproportionately people of color) are shot by police in the streets all over the country, often while obeying orders directly, and even before they have a chance to act or speak.

Spare me.

[vqdriver]

can't keep up with this thread. but i'm just hoping and praying that someone along the chain can find a way to see logic here and just drop the felony, if it's even a felony. whether that's the DA or a judge if it gets that far. a citation and be done with it. even if it goes to court there's no way they prove resisting arrest here......... right???

[cash05458]

Sorry, but this theory of "behave and cops will treat you fairly" is total bunk. This narrative is spouted over and over again, while innocent people (disproportionately people of color) are shot by police in the streets all over the country, often while obeying orders directly, and even before they have a chance to act or speak.

Spare me.

I agree...someone above...james I think...tells of speeding in his bmer....nice to cop and he drives away with no ticket...while I don't think it would lead anyone necessarily being shot, let's say that it's a black or hispanic guy in same bmer gets pulled over by same cop? Is he driving away with no ticket for "behaving" correctly? Or is the cop asking to search his car for drugs or whatever and when refused via rights then the dog is called out for more interest? That stuff goes on constantly in this country...seriously, who is kidding who...

[jamesdak]

I agree...someone above...james I think...tells of speeding in his bmer....nice to cop and he drives away with no ticket...while I don't think it would lead anyone necessarily being shot, let's say that it's a black or hispanic guy in same bmer gets pulled over by same cop? Is he driving away with no ticket for "behaving" correctly? Or is the cop asking to search his car for drugs or whatever and when refused via rights then the dog is called out for more interest? That stuff goes on constantly in this country...seriously, who is kidding who...

LOL, what race am I? :banana:

[Louis]

My latest run-in with the law:

Last night while driving home from work (pretty late) I had an interaction with an officer on the highway. I'm glad to say that it went smoothly, and there were no issues. (Although he did start with the traditional offer for me to entrap myself: "Do you know why I stopped you?" My reply: "No, I have no idea" which just happened to be the truth.)

His "for the record" reason was improper lane usage, but I'm 99.999% sure that was just a cover to check to see if I had been drinking. He quickly realized that I had not been drinking, gave me a "Warning" for improper lane usage and I was on my way.

All in all it was NBD, and I think it happened primarily because there was little traffic on the highway. He must have been pretty bored.

I did think of this thread as I sat in the car waiting for him to walk up to my car. (after I 1) removed my wallet and put it on the dash, 2) Turned off the radio, 3) Put both hands in plain view on the steering wheel. I normally turn the engine off, but it was about 10*F out and I wanted to keep the heat on.)

Another thing to his credit: He used the exterior spot light from the cruiser on my car, so he didn't have to do the "threateningly hold the huge Maglite flash like a club over your head and shine the light directly in your eyes" trick that I've had done to me a few times.

[tomato coupe]

The LEO has exaggerated and/or fabricated some of that info.

What information is fabricated?

[dddd]

All the race-baiters who repeatedly have chimed in are those who sit around with a written page of stuff about "what goes on in this country" and then dump it into a discussion of how some mis-behaving cyclists get aprehended(?).

It's totally laughable.

And who thinks that a cop who is disrespected by someone who looks exactly like them doesn't take it perhaps slightly personal when that person takes off in defiance of a legal order to stop? You kidding???

I grew up and learned some lessons as to what one can and can't get away with in situations like this, and believe me when I say that race didn't seem to be much of a factor.

This case also has nothing to do with shootings and the like, since the officer didn't even have to pull a weapon as he could pretty well see that these riders were most unlikely to be packing.
But people who flee are often the types with failure-to-appear warrants, weapons or contraband, which of course leads officers to be much stricter and more wary of them. Makes cops angry too (we're talking about humans after all).

Now imagine if the officer had looked exactly like the offender here. Who's betting that he would have treated this young rider any nicer than this cop did?

People and especially downtown business owners need police services and want to get the most for their tax dollar. Hiring and retaining good officers is not easy as the best applicants stay hired. People that expect perfection from the small number who actually have the balls to take police jobs are doing a disservice to their community as this ultimately only reduces the pool of candidates who are available to hire, who will put up with the hassles. All readily apparent in this thread from all of the posters who resorted to name-calling of the type selected from actually non-existing characters depicted on television.
Brainwash 101 for the win.

[kiwisimon]

The kids blew the sop light, the kids were looking down the road when the cop gestured to them so they didn't see him. . The cop stops the kids and he cuffs one of them with minimal force.

No one died, it's a good police interaction.

[rollinslow]

I just watched this video again and it disgusts me just like half the responses on this forum full of trolls who live in some alternate reality. Thank you to the legal team already involved in the case.

[gdw]

I just watched this video again and it disgusts me just like half the responses on this forum full of trolls who live in some alternate reality. Thank you to the legal team already involved in the case.

Welcome to the forum. It would be wise to get to know some of the posters here before you start insulting them.

[cash05458]

"All the race-baiters who repeatedly have chimed in are those who sit around with a written page of stuff about "what goes on in this country" and then dump it into a discussion of how some mis-behaving cyclists get aprehended....long strange rant and then this: Brainwash 101 for the win. "

man, classy with a K...really, perfect...pat yourself on the back for that one...

[rollinslow]

Welcome to the forum. It would be wise to get to know some of the posters here before you start insulting them.

Oh please. Tell that to this young man who was arrested for nothing.

Honestly though, I know we all want something positive to come out of this. It just never comes across so great when it’s an emotionally charged topic. We probably need to just wait forum to play out.

[redir]

Destroy this kids life with a felony that will follow him forever, so wrong.

Take his voting rights away for life, terrible! When i was his age it seems too that 95% of the cops would have just had a little talk and let us go. Heck I remember cops emptying out our beers in the parking lot and telling us to get out of here. What has happened to policing in this country?

[weisan]

Hey pals, happy valentine's day!

Don't you have some place you need to be?

If not, that's ok, check this out:

https://youtu.be/cqjhCC4sP4Q

[Louis]

Hey pals, happy valentine's day!

Don't you have some place you need to be?

If not, that's ok, check this out:

https://youtu.be/cqjhCC4sP4Q

Let the record show that when I clicked on Weisan's link the first thing that popped up was an ad for Mike Bloomberg. You can make of that what you will...

[cash05458]

Let the record show that when I clicked on Weisan's link the first thing that popped up was an ad for Mike Bloomberg. You can make of that what you will...

I see the end of this tunnel thread approaching quite quickly then...:) But rather, if you go thru the ads...I think it is some comic...and I got a Bernie ad first, not a bloomie one...

[jamesdak]

Take his voting rights away for life, terrible! When i was his age it seems too that 95% of the cops would have just had a little talk and let us go. Heck I remember cops emptying out our beers in the parking lot and telling us to get out of here. What has happened to policing in this country?

LOL, right! I do remember how things were were I grew up in the Shenandoah Valley. The cop in Stanley was the short stout little fire plug that no one messed with. Sgt Sullivan in Timberville kept all the teens in line too, especially the hot rodders. And then my brother in law was the law in Broadway.

But I guess you can blame the change on society. There was a very respected school Principal in SLC recently that took a drunk teenager he found on school ground home. The Principal drove the kid's car and had another teacher follow to pick up the Principal. Good deed right? The Principal was fired for handling it himself. I'm sure a lot of cops these days are afraid to act like the ones we grew up around many years ago and for good reason.

[cash05458]

LOL, right! I do remember how things were were I grew up in the Shenandoah Valley. The cop in Stanley was the short stout little fire plug that no one messed with. Sgt Sullivan in Timberville kept all the teens in line too, especially the hot rodders. And then my brother in law was the law in Broadway.

But I guess you can blame the change on society. There was a very respected school Principal in SLC recently that took a drunk teenager he found on school ground home. The Principal drove the kid's car and had another teacher follow to pick up the Principal. Good deed right? The Principal was fired for handling it himself. I'm sure a lot of cops these days are afraid to act like the ones we grew up around many years ago and for good reason.

oh sure...yeah the cops are afraid to act like the ones you had when you grew up...just a good smack right? too bad for that right? I can tell you stories about growing up in boston and the cops there...my wife was an orphan...boy did the cops love coming around there to pick up 13 year old chicks to give them booze for bj's in the squad car in the park...you think that is an exaggeration? you would be very very wrong and misguided...get friggin real man...nothing like the old days right? want to talk cops...? you got it...sure, america's finest...thank god they are learning some restraint given the old days...and you know what does that: people talking about abuse and what they do wrong and expecting more from folks who give them that power and pay their wages...

[AngryScientist]

I think we've beaten this one to death.

we can always start a new thread if any new information comes to light, but i think it's best to take a break from this thread for a while.